Why do so many plebs call Evangelion a "deconstruction" when they have never even seen/read: Ideon, Devilman, Gundam, Nausicaa, Yamato, Mazinger, and other works that influenced it?
NGE only broke the mold for starting cancerous waifufaggotry.
You know, that thing that was only an ironic joke here until all you reddit users arrived.
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NGE killed anime
Because all anime fans like to pretend they know more than they really do.
fucking dumb shit uni kids who think they know something when in fact they were born in -97 and know fuck all
reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
>You need to experience every single shitty thing that has influenced a piece of fiction to understand it!
Christ, tell me you're just kidding. What, did you also read the entire Bible just to prepare your mind for Evangelion?
Sure Eva took plenty of elements from other shows but the result in vastly different.
None of the characters in Ideon have any more depth than "War is bad but we have to survive, what do?"
>that thing that was only an ironic joke here
Excuse me?
Same reason people can't stop bringing up Ideon in relation to Eva after they learn it exists. Trying to put on airs of superiority and knowledge when they're still mostly clueless.
>being an uncultured fucking pleb
>Ideon, Devilman, Gundam, Nausicaa, Yamato, Mazinger, and other works that influenced it
Eva brought out the themes that were the absolute best from this selection without artistically depriving itself of being a masterpiece, unlike every work you mentioned in your post. Thus, Eva 'decontructed' those pieces, taking the best parts, and made itself into the magnum opus of anime as a whole.
>uncultured
Nigger, you and I watch anime and post about it on an anonymous imageboard. What the fuck makes you think I was ever cultured, or that you were in any position to criticize
None of those are deconstructions.
>NGE only broke the mold for starting cancerous waifufaggotry.
Nice try, but that was Gundam 0079.
anyone here have a better version of this image?
Eva is shit.
It doesn't matter what your opinion is of it. It's like taking the single most recognizable thing out of another art form, and calling it shit. It's too big and too established for you to effect anymore.
What if it didn't happen.
Would we be here talking on the internet like this?
I doubt it... not necessarily this board, but the whole place probably wouldn't exist.
Eva made 4chin
Anime as a whole would've never taken off in the west. Japan would be a Burgerland territory. France and Germany would have more able bodied males to defend themselves. Net loss for weebs, but net gain for the world.
Why do so many plebs call Evangelion a "deconstruction" when they have never even read John Fisk's article that defines the meaning of the word "deconstruction"?
(hint: it's all about the polysemy of the text dawgs)
>other works that influenced it?
A "deconstruction" in this colloquial sense by default has to be influenced and reference others. If it's fully original, it can't be "deconstructing" something. The question you should have actually asked is how can people say that it's a deconstruction if they never saw the works that are supposed to be deconstructed there.
>it's popular
>you can't x
Ok. Evangelion is baby's first suffering anime.
Go hang yourself, OP-
>when you realize you opinion isn't actually worth anything and all you can do it lash out
There, there lil guy.
Well, I don't know about you, but I'm a pretty clever lad when it comes to these things.
Oh ok, my bad
>argumentum ad populum
And anyway, One Piece or Dragon Ball Z are more recognizable and known than Eva.
"It's a deconstruction" = "I'm barely familiar with the genre but I have some preconceived notions about it and this show goes against them"
By your logic, Twilight is the most recognizable and known literary work beside the Bible. Meanwhile, connoisseurs of literary work would balk at you for mentioning such things.
This is a thread for anime connoisseurs(750+ watched). See yourself out.
I've seen 20 whole animes, I'm nearly as close as you XDDDD
I watched/read all of those, and love many of them. NGE is still a masterpiece and the best I've seen from this medium.
Have you also watched and read all the works that influenced the works you mentioned?
Evangelion is shit. I can never understand why so many autists put it on a pedestral.
Here you go.
Amazing direction, narrative, animation and writing? Creative ideas, setting and use of visualized introspection? Besides those I don't really know.
I've seen all anime you cited (with the exception of Devilman) and they are all vastly inferior to Evangelion and severely different.
Ideon's movie is the only thing that comes even remotely close to the style of Eva, but just because it kills most of the characters doesn't mean it is similar nor introspect the same way Eva is.
Weak bait.
>Eva 'decontructed' those pieces, taking the best parts
What are those parts?
Fucking this;
OP is buttblasted.
/thread
...
>bible
You meant to say the Talmud, pleb.
The thing about Eva is that it's iconic. It's a show that feels like a super robot show - and a 'serious' super robot show - before it gets weird. And dark.
Look, we sort of have an idea how a story is supposed to go. Even Devilman has the hero become the leader of the Devilman army before the shit goes down, and Mazinger's Kouji gets stronger.
Here, Shinji is demonstrably in a worse position than he was in the start of the show. Everything is falling apart. The manipulation by the adults work. The evil conspiracy runs its course with very little trouble on the part of the 'heroes'.
There's a lot of earlier stuff, but Eva did it well and in a thematically solid way. Either that, or it was a product of it's time.
So people just say that but doesn't really know, nice
>reading the literary Jew
Wew there, laddie
>What, did you also read the entire Bible just to prepare your mind for Evangelion?
Yes.
Devilman - story
Devilman - setting
Gundam - character development
Nausicaa - waifus
Mazinger - animation style
Yamato - bros
I'd add to this
Space Odysse/Kubrick - shot composition
Okamoto/Godard - editing
>Why do so many plebs call Evangelion a "deconstruction" when they have never even read John Fisk's article that defines the meaning of the word "deconstruction"?
I blame tvtropes
>psychology
>not psychoanalysis
Kek, plebs.
I've actually studied Freud, Klein and Winnicot's main theories that were present in Eva. Fight me.
That's not what spoonfeeding is. He's asking you to back up your argument.
>spoonfeeding underaged retards
I found the psychological parts more interesting in form than in content. I've never seen introspection visualized in a similar way in film.
You meant to say the Kabbalah, surf.
The Magi and the Spear of Longinus are from christianity.
Kabbalah is not a "book", retard. Most of the Kabbalistic esoteric elements is present into the Talmud.
Please educate yourself.
...
Doesn't really matter, all the Christian and Kabbalistic symbolism is used on a completely superficial level and a deeper understanding of it contributes nothing to your ability to follow the show. Someone would do better to brush up on their Jung than their Bible or Talmud.
Here you go
>Seph
Nice meme
>NGE only broke the mold for starting cancerous waifufaggotry.
Someone hasn't seen Ranma or Tenchi Muyo.
Took a jpg by mistake ;-;
>superficial level
It's not, you got memed and just went with what Sup Forums told you. First of all, Anno didn't even say the things people say, it was Tsurumaki. Second of all, he only said the show had no "christian meaning", that doesn't mean any meaning at all. It serves a purpose for the plot, atmosphere and to reflect certain thematic points. Yes, the message and themes of Eva aren't related to christian theology, but it's not like if you took out the religious elements the show would provide the same experience.
Redpill me on Seph.
Actually the symbolism is not as shallow as people think it is but there isn't much symbolism either. You just need to read about the Sephirotic system in the talmud, (the tree of life: The path to god) and how the Tree of Life works.
The fact that the angels have Hebrew names is irrelevant.
I'm not saying it would be the same without the imagery or that it serves no purpose, I'm saying that a deep understanding of the source texts is completely unnecessary and is if anything likely to mislead a viewer if they cling to it too hard.
source of gif? does japan understand evafaggotry?
I don't think it's necessary to have an unerstanding of anything to watch Eva, it expresses the atmosphere, style, story and message very well on its own. But knowing the background can be interesting. For example if we understand the relationship between Lilith, Adam and Eva. We understand why Adam and Lilith were the original beings (not Adam and Eva) and then it makes sense that the Evas are created from Adam. It's like how understanding norse mythology isn't important to understand the lords of the rings or enjoy its settings but if you do you can make some interesting connections.
How does this help? I'm kind of interested.
So what do you make of this quote by Tsurumaki:
>"There are a lot of giant robot shows in Japan, and we did want our story to have a religious theme to help distinguish us. Because Christianity is an uncommon religion in Japan we thought it would be mysterious. None of the staff who worked on Eva are Christians. There is no actual Christian meaning to the show, we just thought the visual symbols of Christianity look cool. If we had known the show would get distributed in the US and Europe we might have rethought that choice"
I'm not trying to instigate or anything, I like the show and want to understand your ideas on it.
SZS, and it's probably ironic.
Though I'm saying this as someone who hasn't read or watched it.
So long, mr. Despair. It's required watching to browse Sup Forums properly.
please don't use that word
poststructuralism makes me physically sick.
you must be delusional if you believe that these hacks are anywhere near the master's level.
That infamous line is mostly correct in the sense that they just added the mythology for the heck of it initially. It wasn't a foundation for the series per se.
However, most people fail to realize that AFTER the mythology was choosen, they actually did read quite a lot about it. We are talking from a pre-HTTP era internet here, so they actually went to libraries and took several books about BIology Physics and Judaism to make all the sci-fi and mythologic elements in Eva.
You woul only find terms like "Chamber of Guf" or "Dirac Sea" "Hayflick Limit" and "Apoptosis" if you went deep into such books. Today with wikipedia, nothing is obscure anymore.
Anyway, regarding the Sephirotic system, take this passage for instace:
triangulations.wordpress.com
All of those mechanics are kinda or represented in the EoE when Unit 01 becomes the Tree of Life itself.
What is more interesting, is that not only it is literally represented, but also symbolically. While Adam and Gedou represent the father, Yui represent the Knowledge, Lilith Represent GOD itself (athough Lilith is an apocryphal demon) Rei represents the holy spirit and unit 01, represent the heart.
All which in the Judaic theology are essential elements to reach a higher plane of existence, the same as god. The Instrumentality process could both be viewed as a philosophical forced evolution process, as well as an theological forced sublimation of the human existence to the same plane as god.
>psychoanalysis
literally worthless.
It only works on the specific demographic of the hysteric bourgeois Viennese upper class.
The only ones whom psychoanalysis benefits are authors looking for eccentric characters.
Anno is a talentless hack director senpai
also, all of these things you listed are varying degrees of awful or unrelated to eva.
Because they are Tasteless casuals.
At being a hack?
Does Eva have the worst fanbase of all time? The anime in itself is pretty good imo (nothing excellent, but good), but jesus fuck the fanbase.
They absolutely LOVE to boast how this is the SUPERIOR mecha. "oh but it's so sadistic" "oh but the suffering" "oh but the complex characters", "oh but the Oedipal symbolism", when the characters are not particularly complex and most of the suffering is very much standard. It's like they've been watching shit for most of their lives and when something decent comes along they treat it like the new fucking Mona Lisa.
Whenever you even dare question the fact that it may not be THAT groundbreaking or good, they viciously attack you accusing of liking Shonen and "perfect characters with no flaws".
Watch Mazinger Z if you like Eva, you fucks
>It only works on the specific demographic of the hysteric bourgeois Viennese upper class.
You have no idea how ignorant and laughable your shallow attempt of discrediting the only way of thought that went the deepest into understanding and revealing how the human mind works sounds.
I choked a little, child.
...
Psychoanalysis is a method that was built using the hysteric Viennese upper class.
Do you think the same method will work on an African tribesman?
A Japanese?
An American?
A Soviet?
An Arab?
Or even someone from the Austrian countryside?
Do you really believe that?
Why?
You know what is fun? That the expression 2DEEP4U is literally and objectively true for little haters like you that try too hard to sound superior indifferent but fail miserable to hide your rage and discredit the series in such a superfluous way as just vomiting terms like "Oedipal Symbolism" and "Complex characters" without actually understanding any of it.
Nadeshiko is the pinnacle of mecha anime tho.
To seem intelligent. NGE is not a deconstruction, though it does play off of common genre elements.
KotOR2 is a deconstruction of star wars for example, because it breaks down constant elements of the star wars series that the setting does not necessitate or require
>psychoanalysis
>actually having anything to do with how the mind works
Do you also leech yourself to balance your humors?
that is not what deconstruction means
Eva isn't shit, but it's not the masterpiece so many of you faggots seem to act like it is.
Yes it is, in this context.
I think the EVA TV series is pretty average but that fucking EoE movie blew my mind. Watched it half a decade ago and since then I just cant find a piece of anime that could top that fucking movie. God bless Anno for remastering it for BD.
Your definition of Psychoanalisis is actually WRONG.
The psychoanalysis is a philosophy, a práxis. It was a DISCOVERY, almost by accident.
Freud initially watched Charcot's classes treating hysterical women, yes, but that was just the initial spark, them Freud had one of the most breakthrough realizations in the history of man. Something no one ever realized until then: That our mind is not only the logic we can see and hear in our thoughts, but that it had a much bigger and deeper level, the unconscious.
The psychoanalysis is a study of how the mind is formed and all the escape channeling the unconscious creates to deal with traumas leading to neurosis.
Your question is wrong, let me ask you this instead: Do you think unconscious mind and somatization and neurosis are exclusive traits of rich people, son? Do you think the basic mind organization it vastly different in African people?
Before criticizing something, you should at least try and get past reading just the first paragraph of the Wikipedia article about it, friend.
That's nice question.
I have a better one:
Do you believe that unconscious mind operates the same way for all people in every cultural context?
>Freud had one of the most breakthrough realizations in the history of man
Jesus. This fucking meme again.
2deep4u.
I want to be a good-looking human wreck like the cool kids in Evangelion.
Devilman is unironically better than any of the other works mentioned in this post.
>cool kids in Evangelion
Kaji?
Freud was a psuedoscientific quack whose only real contribution to his field was popularizing it.
Again, an ambiguous misleading question.
We must understand what you assume "Operate" refers to.
If it refers to each culture having different morals and way of thinking that are embedded into the unique identity of each person, than this has nothing to do with conscious.
Conscious refers to the structure of the organization of the mind.
So, if you mean "operate" as in the sense that repressions and traumas are channeled into neurosis, than YES. The difference is that the traumas and logic that repress our basic instincts are done differently by each culture, since moral is different from human to human.
Freud actually has an essay about how moral affects the repression and neurosis mechanisms.
>I disagree with something that is recurring
>must be a stupid meme, I can't be wrong
Here is your (you), friend.
>psychoanalysis/psychology are pseudoscience
NOW THIS IS a meme, indeed.
A false one. Since the effective of talk therapy in specific modern Freudian-derivative methods has objectively proven to be effective by scientific studies with psychiatric drugs even if the unconscious mind can't be pass through the falsifiable principle for obvious reasons.
Philosophies are all pseudosciences too, you know.
How is your materialistic life going? Pretty shallow and empty, I suppose.
>effectiveness
>can't go through
Autofixed.
>Why do so many plebs call Evangelion a "deconstruction" when they have never even seen/read: Ideon, Devilman, Gundam, Nausicaa, Yamato, Mazinger, and other works that influenced it?
The first point does not require the second one, that's why.
ty friend
What? Where did I imply that they were or weren't? The guy asked what aspects influenced Anno's works and I answered.
>that mari and hegel quote
Fucking brilliant, kek.
Who is the one paired with Asuka? Only one I don't recall.
>Anno is a talentless hack director senpai
>also, all of these things you listed are varying degrees of awful or unrelated to eva.
Anno credited all of those as an inspiration. Then it's kind of easy to establish what aspects influenced him. With some he specifically mentioned them.
>Why do so many plebs call Evangelion a "deconstruction"
Because they think "deconstruction" means whatever tvtropes thinks it means, and they've never heard the name Jacques Derrida.
Waifus haven't been a joke since 2006, user.
You're the joke.
>Anno credited all of those as an inspiration. Then it's kind of easy to establish what aspects influenced him. With some he specifically mentioned them.
Not him but while he did mention he was influenced by Ideon, And Gundam, in different occasions, he didn't actually made a simplified relationship like the ones you did.
And he just mentioned Mazinger as being an anime he enjoyed as a kid, nothing more.
Please state the sources of your claims, thank you.