Pic related is a typical orthodox Marxist narrative of modern society

pic related is a typical orthodox Marxist narrative of modern society

what illogical garbage do non-marxist provide to explain the deteriorating conditions of the working class

boomer conservative
>everyone got lazy and stopped worshipping the dead zombie jew on a stick

boomer liberal
>employers became greedy, vote for bernie and everything will go back to the 70s with based blaxploitation films with foxy ebony beuties

young conservative
>dude praise Israel, if millenials stop being degenerates and start working 80 hours a week for mr.shekelberg's corporation during unpaid college internships they can score a job barely above cost of living and no vacation time

young liberals
>if we let homophobic muslim refugees flood the west and mentally ill people use the bathroom of their choice worker's conditions will improve, just let any al-qaeda wannabee in and a progressive utopia will happen

nazis
>fucking jews lets restrict property rights to only white people and whites will stop exploiting each other for profit

Orthodox Marxists of all stripes
>the media and arena of mainstream politics is a tool of the elites to keep masses embroiled in meaningless debates while the the condition of worker's is sacrificed to the god of capital in an endless perma-recession created by the law of diminishing returns of capital.

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I love how they can see the truth like workers debt, stagnating wages while inflation is rampant and cost of living constantly rising but make the fucking assumption that this is because of capitalism.

Capitalism has provided the average person in the western world with the largest wealth expansion ever. Its the fucking bankers and lobbies and politicians manipulation and perverting capitalism that cause all of this fucking mayhem.

I believe in some regulations but these commie fucks would like to have us all living on one potatoe soup a week again

>claims working class living standards are deteriorating
>ignores the reality that people's lives have dramatically improved with technological proliferation thanks to capitalism

What are you retards even comparing capitalism to?

>Capitalism has provided the average person in the western world with the largest wealth expansion ever.
correction: the labour of workers and scientist has provided this.

>Its the fucking bankers and lobbies and politicians manipulation and perverting capitalism that cause all of this fucking mayhem.
What do you expect of a system that translate private property to power over the means of production?

corruption wins in capitalism, there is no way around it. furthermore the most successful(wily and greedy) are under no obligation to serve the public.

a utopian fantasy that they WANT to happen

capitalism and all the propserity and abundance it has brought will never live up to the utopia they have crafted in their mind

>I can watch youporn on my electronic glass screen on the bus
>sure beats guaranteed employment, and a social safety net

also
>implying technological progress is correlated with capitalism, instead of time

Capitalism and Marxism suffer from the same problem of only defining value as material wealth or capital. They are both inherently materialistic and thus both inopportune to meeting the needs of people. The only system that can bring long term success and happiness to its people is one that defines value outside of the material. To my knowledge the only things that fit that definition is theocracy or some form of nat soc.

>capitalism and all the propserity and abundance it has brought will never live up to the utopia they have crafted in their mind
why? do people who wish to investigate science and investigate ways to automate things disappear during communism?

National socialism does not do away with capital

insted of working for mr. shekelberg you work for mr. holtzhtilerklein von siegheil

Corruption wins in democracy and with the federal reserve. Capitalism is fine but with proper regulation. Democracy breeds short sighted leaders that pull strings and favors to get superficial things done. Why make long term decisions that 9 out of 10 voters can't see when your term ends in a few years and you can be voted out? When the caring and good citizens are outnumbered by the mass of people who want money transferred to them, or who simply aren't smart enough to see how things work, you have our failure of a system. It's why founding fathers set up a timocracy and not a democracy. Then you have nihilism ruining generally good and central banks making everything else impossible to go back to. You couldn't go back to a timocracy at this point because banks would fuck everything up. It's all about control and it's why every smart person for over 2000 years has said tyranny will rise from democracy.

Nihilism ruining the general good*.

Oh and check out arreats and the welfare funds disappearing during the French revolution, even with more tax. Don't they smell like our current money system?

There's no limit to autism here, it seems. Either the Ancaps are screaching about muh SOCIALISM in NS or the socialists like you whine about it being totally capitalistic. The truth is: it was neither. It was third position. And that is what made it so dangerous to the powers that be.

By the way, if you don't like working for anyone: found your own company. But I am sure you will come up with a lot of excuses why it is totally impossible in the current year. Pretty much like: where all da good womyn gone! Are socialists the bitter old virgins of the economic world? Let's find out!

you analysis is almost correct except for the fact that it is not true
many locales across the U.S are populated by poor people who vote against their own interest. The rational argument voter argument has been dead for a long time.

capitalism empowers capital. That is why the minimum wage now is less than it was in the 60s that is why the top tax rate is less than it was in the 60s.

Capital wins in capitalism, that is a simple fact. Defend the system if you are wealthy in capitali, but if you are poor in capital and defend the system there is no hope for you

Just say it you don't give a fuck about a functioning society, you want shekels even though as someone born into the bottom 75% they are not gonna be coming to you.

It isn't about doing away with capital, its about understanding that there is an ultimate value in life other than capital or the material.
Marxists decides value = wealth and than works to redistribute wealth "fairly" to share value.
Capitalists decides value=wealth and than works to create as much value for themselves.
The rejection of the immaterial is the end result of both paths. This is the path to nihilism, degeneracy, and general societal breakdown. The only way to prevent this from occurring, in the long term, is to have a system that embraces the immaterial and is capable of rejecting the material. Theocracy does this by deciding value=god/faith, in a theocracy things would be done that may not make money or may not be seen as inefficient or unfair, but if it serves the higher purpose it will be accepted. Nat Soc also uses elements of capitalism and elements of marxism/socialism to pursue a higher value, to them value=the "well being" of their people. They would do anything to pursue the benefit of their group, even if it cost them in a material sense.
American society was better before, and it was always capitalist; but we had a value of the immaterial as well. We valued God, our people, our community, etc. We have lost these values in the majority of people because the system in place doesnt preserve values other than the value of money.

>Oh and check out arreats and the welfare funds disappearing during the French revolution, even with more tax. Don't they smell like our current money system?
can you rephrase this into a comprehencible sentence?
How was it third position?
>By the way, if you don't like working for anyone: found your own company. But I am sure you will come up with a lot of excuses why it is totally impossible in the current year. Pretty much like: where all da good womyn gone! Are socialists the bitter old virgins of the economic world? Let's find out!
why the fuck should anyone wagecuck themselves for 20+ years to gather the capital trust-funds babies attain within a millisecond of birth?

you don't have to be a marxist to understand the negative consequences of financialization. the only free markets are black markets

>many locales across the U.S are populated by poor people who vote against their own interest.
>says I'm wrong for calling out democracy giving retards the ability to vote and going against the very foundation of our country

What did you mean by this?

Arreats were a temporary fiat currency after French revolution. They said it was based on siezed church land but they just printed more whenever. They also started taking care of the poor that private charities and churches had been taking care of before but ended up having to tax the population far more, and ended up with missing funds and coming short. Essentially middle men were skimming, just like what's going on today with our "bemevolent" government that we apparently must give more money to fix everything. Democracy is a sham and I know you care but you are looking in the wrong place I believe. This isn't the first time this has happened in history.

>It isn't about doing away with capital, its about understanding that there is an ultimate value in life other than capital or the material
TOP KEK!!!!

Mr shekelberg goes out on vacations with his family, has no worries about medical illness destroying his family finances.

Mr shekelberg owns multiple homes while you are indebted for your shit home

Mr Shekelberg retire at 30 and enjoys his trust fund and family time and security while you are stuck trying to claw your ass out of poverty (estimated age of reaching middle class 45) while mr shekelberg enjoyed his youth partying in beach resorts while you dragged your ass to mcjob/military

Benevolent * sorry filthy phone poster here. I suggest reading Reflections on the Revolution in France by Edmund Burke.

...

Your assessment of America's left-wing youth is spot on. Bunch of fucking wasters and morons

anti-social safety net republicans being voted in from poorfag states
is you argument?
>french revolution events out of context, therefore the ownership of excess property by individuals shall not be infringe

I got the point, the point is that instead of seeking material security I should content myself on immaterial justifications for poverty, while the wealthy enjoy their material security

At the same time he is right, material wealth isn't the ultimate happiness or anything. But you're right you also can't let them keep getting away with fucking everyone over. IMO fed should be issue #1 along with IMF. Any system, no matter how perfect in theory, will still be ruled by them as long as they are around. There's a very good reason why Jackson said it was his greatest accomplishment to keep out the central banks.

It's all fine honey. Really, the marxist scheme falls down like the tower of babel when the politburo - the state - is owned by kikes who export the goddamn gas for a few shekels and import for the price they feel is a good price.

They, the kikes, hve the hands on the finances, not the gullible proletars.

The reason why it all went awry, in my humble opinion, is because when the Reagan and Thatcher era politicians came in and began to reform stagnant western economies they threw out the baby with the bath water. The systems which had governed the way both western Europe and the USA functioned was completely scrapped. This was folly. In the USA the ND did a lot to pull the country out of depression and prevent it from happening again. In Europe, a consensus between social democrats and conservatives meant that a relatively large state with workers rights, pensions and cheap housing was always maintained regardless of who had power. On either side of the Atlantic these systems acted to contain the worst excesses of the capitalist system whilst allowing reasonably free free market competition.

They were 'balanced economies', and they worked for the most part.

Again, I know you care but you are being dense here. Step back and reread and take a look and think clearly. You aren't wrong but you are looking at a surface wound and ignoring the deep festering infection being spread and not allowing that surface wound to heal. I brought up French revolution because you are wanting to tax rich more, fine, where does that money go? To government, what does government do with that money? Enrich middlemen and banks. You're talking about Mr shecklberg when I see you fighting over his scraps. You're not thinking big enough. Read. You may see. Please look into that book. I can suggest others on the fed but Edmund Burke is really good.

the core issue at all this is capital.
If I can accumulate enough I can just bribe everyone to bring back central banks. I can buy newspapers, fund pro-central bank instutions and think tanks, flood the media and of course make campaign contributions

boom now you have central banks

the idea of private ownership of means of production needs to be done away with in order to prevent such gross corruption

in a system where the means of production are held in common the most I can bribe a person is one extra apple at lunch or some meaningless shit like that, furthermore I would have to bribe everyone. one meaningless apple distribute over 30 workers, doesn't mean that much.

compare that to millions of dollars in exchange for tens of millions of dollars of defense contracts

with capitalism you can create a company that is owned by the employees. so just do that. you see how powerful capitalism can be?

the problem is non-democratic workplaces.It doesn't matter if there is a central revolutionary vanguard or not, what matters is that the workers feel ownership of the means of production

the closest humanity got to communism was 1970s maoist china
youtube.com/watch?v=x-CwaFmGVLs

sadly the workers did not feel empowered enough to shoot the capitalist bureaucrats when they came and declared privatization time under Deng Xiaoping

100% this. get the fucking jews out and you got a pretty good thing going. the late game stuff is bonkers though I would say that some sort of cap on maximum wealth would be the ideal system. no one company should be able make or break an entire nation.

Fascists recognize that the party system serves not the people, but politicians and their financial backers, and that the media is owned by a small elite that keep the masses embroiled in these non-issues. We recognize many of the same problems as the socialist, but we believe that capitalism should be made subordinate to the worker and the state, not that the proles should be entrusted with managing the economy. This socialist theory of the cooperative state will never work because you're entrusting the prosperity of the nation to football hooligans, drug addicts, etc. Hierarchy ought to be embraced, and exploitation prevented by the state.

the goal is the liberation of all workers and the end of the corruption mechanism known as capitalism.

being that empowered would require food

what shall be the mechanism of ordering humans into a hierarchy?
>ability to jew and gather capital
>trust of the workers
if you think the latter you are a communist, if the former you are a capitalist

Yes but that goes completely against human nature and is why communism just ends up being authoritarian (in a bad way) and you just have new faces on the same bad guys you tried to kick out. Central banks helped finance Russian revolution for that very reason. We need to go back to systems based on real items and not fiat currency. With communism you just have to kill everyone who doesn't want to share, exactly like you're talking about. Then the only way to get things done is bribe connected people. Even for simple things like food. How old are you by the way?

explain? they had food. there was no famine in the 70s, food and job security was guaranteed

>Yes but that goes completely against human nature
what goes against human nature? bribery? that is why bribery is limited to meaningless shit.
>With communism you just have to kill everyone who doesn't want to share
problem?
I am 25 years old, I have worked in factories in the south and studied in """""elite"""""" universities so I know some shit about this world

the thing is you dont need federal communism to practice it in america so I dont know what the faggots think they are doing other than trying to take property from other people.

how you going to do that with a fucking dictator. because thats what you will get just like every other communist country.

>the thing is you dont need federal communism to practice it in america
you have no clue to how chard the elites willf ight to keep the working class under their thumb, you NEED a vanguard party to
1) eliminate the elites
2) un-brainwash the masses

That may be why, I was in a similar place back then. I know I'm a random dude on the internet but expand your reading. Communism is yet another tool of (((them))) even though it sounds nice. To truly understand communism you have to be smart I know, and that's part of its allure. The people pol makes fun of are idiots but you don't seem to be one. Think of the power of democracy, supposedly in the hands of the people. Look at your supermarket, the roads, your workplace, are those people you think should have power? Should they have as much power as you? Do they work as hard as you? Do you think they are smart enough and "just" enough to understand and follow the ideals of Communism? Hell they don't even understand our country that they live in every day. Wish I could talk more but I have to run. Look into Burke. Consider monarchism or even simply what the founding fathers truly set up. Read federalist and anti federalist papers. Wish you the best.

my point is you can go practice it freely here. giant businesses have been created with that same premise but guess what. it really didnt help much. look at food 4 less.

tell a bunch of good country boys their dumbshit jew-puppet cia-ocracy serves the wealthy and if they don't want their children paying for Israel's wars while they work a mcjob they better wise up and seize the means

I ceazed the means of production personally I enjoy capitalism. you are going to have to fight me for it commie.

Yeah there's truth in it. I don't know what a "contender formation" is, but during the 1980's (Reagan presidency) LBO's were massively enabled, wiping out the financial cushion of most of our great corporations. 30 year careers and defined-benefit pensions were no more.

Except in government which wasn't supposed to have unions at all according to FDR!

Yeah whenever I read Marxist economics it makes sense. That doesn't mean I like the communist prescriptions, which are terrible and don't work.