Does the left

...lie on purpose or are they really this retarded?

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What does my ACA approved plan cover? Lots of shit. Can I afford to use it after paying 400 a month with a 5000 dollar deductible? NO.

I'm literally throwing money at an insurance company because I'm forced to by law, in order to pay for poor people's coverage. If anyone doesn't see how this is really how it's set up then you're a fucking idiot

This is actually true, though. If you allow government and private insurance to coexist, the private insurance will cover everything the government doesn't, and those who have it will want the government insurance to cover less to lower their taxes.

This is why I want a complete removal of the insurance system, with legal guarantees that all negotiated prices must be available to all consumers, and publically listed.

The reality is that we don't need insurance. Healthcare costs are inflated to cover extreme negotiation boundaries, to make people think they're getting a good deal.

JUST PAY THE BILL, RACIST.

Why is health insurance not like car insurance?

Because it wouldn't work.

If you were charged according to your risk profile, then you would be charged next to nothing while young, and extremely high in old age. Since everyone needs more healthcare as they get older, your plan would offer nothing of benefit to you. The highest-cost medical treatments all relate to age-related illnesses like cancer, heart disease, etc. Everyone gets these, so a risk-pool system is completely nonsensical for handling it.

Insurance is essentially reverse gambling. Pay money continuously so you don't get screwed over by life on a whim. When everyone gets screwed, there's no margin to take advantage of.

To get around this, insurance companies frontload costs onto the young to pay for the old. This works well so long as the young
>Have jobs
>Keep having kids
>Are bigger than the generation before them
In other words, it's another population-growth pyramid scheme.

>The reality is that we don't need insurance. Healthcare costs are inflated to cover extreme negotiation boundaries, to make people think they're getting a good deal.
This right here. A hospital basically charges you and your insurance company $100 or more for a fucking bandaid. If the insurance industry didn’t exist and you had the freedom to go to any clinic or hospital that you wanted to, that $100+ bandaid would be free and they’d have to keep their prices competitive go get your business. The way it should be

Car Insurance is liability insurance and all that's legally mandated is that you have it in case you're at fault for an accident. This way if someone crashes into you they can pay for the damages even if they're a poorfag.

>She looks extremely semite.

>lie on purpose

See pic, the left thinks in feminine ways

A little from column A and a little from column B.

Their favourite strategies are written in Rules for Radicals book by Saul Alinsky.

Sort of this, but what’s also troubling is that it’s ridding competition from the marketplace year by year. You don’t need to be eagle-eyed to notice that we lose companies from the market place every year. And if this continues, there will only be one or two companies to “pick” from. But hey, ACHA is totally not socialism, or anything!

Insurance through my work wanted $650 A FUCKIN PAYCHECK

Fuck that. Obamacare was like $600 a month - but yea, basically didn't cover shit, would only be worth while if I got in a really bad car accident or something.

The left is acting like the current situation isn't completely shit.

Old people get medicare though. The private sector just has to cover people until retirement age.

Isn't that the gook doc who took a knee against white supremacy?

>the left
Call them "anti-white," O.P.

>thin line between 1st world and 2nd
Your system is a mess, it has to be fixed either way.
Pretty sure getting rid of it in hope that something better magically emerges is a delusion.
For a country that can sell 350 billions of arms to SA and afford to station nukes in every shithole corner of the world simple healthcare can't be that difficult.

...

People regularly get supplementary insurance on top of medicare. It doesn't cover as much as a traditional insurance plan.

If it's so cheap, I'd be happy to just cover it myself. I can cover a 20k emergency bill once every 5-10 years, and those that can't can negotiate payment plans. Why do we need to prepay for healthcare?

Could be both. Right now plans have to have a bunch of shit you might never or will never use. Like if you're a male, you will never use the coverage for female bullshit that is required by law. "Junk" insurance makes me laugh since right now, a lot of people do have junk plans that cost a fortune because they take the cheapest plan with the shittiest coverage just because they have to.

I'm healthy and I don't want all the bull crap. Just give me catastrophic insurance for real emergencies. If you go to a doctor's office right now for something not urgent, you will pay a lot less when you tell them you don't have insurance. It's insanity.

>.lie on purpose
this one.

To make easier to explain..

Imagine a father saying to his son "if you go to school everyday, santa claus will give you a nintendo switch at christimas day", to make sure his son go to school everyday.

The father is not stupid, he is just lying.

He is only lying if the kid does not understand that "santa" is his father, and if the kid will not receive the switch on Dec. 25. When I grew up, I knew full well that gifts from unknowns were from parents.

If allowed to run in a true free market system, the price of healthcare would correct itself. (Some health code regulation is necessary)

No health codes required at all. Just make good tort laws and the problem can be sued away.

Had to deal with Obamacare for my wife and I for almost a year. It is a blatant scam being perpetrated to destroy what is left of the middle class and to make sure millennials never own property. Oh, and also a giant hand out to insurance companies which fund politicians campaigns.

Health care plan charges me 500 a month to cover my yearly doctor physical and eye exam, totaling 250 a year.

If i never get sick im getting fucked.

If i get sick the premium goes up.

What the fuck.

All insurance is a hedge against yourself.

No private insurance company would write a contract that does not guarantee profit.

If insurance is a mandate on account of your existence as a citizen of this country, then no insurance should be a "for profit" corporation.

Additionally since insurance is an adhesion contract, same rules should apply where any ambiguity is contra proferendum.

PBM's should be classified as a kickback and every PBM should be jailed. You cannot rebrand a kickback by calling it a rebate to skirt the law.

Fuck this cunt. He's a fucking troll and guaranteed to be working for the chinese govt

They contact you and tell you that you must spy/pass info back to PRK/do some dirty or they will come after your family.

The chinese are funding shariablue as well. Oh the irony.....

Right. Same thing except I'm liable for me.
There's mandated minimum coverage for cars.
>you hit someone
>insurance has to cover $20,000 in damage
Or whatever but you aren't covered, I get that.
If I want comprehensive coverage to replace my car or cover more damage, I pay more.

What I'm saying is, the health insurance industry is fucked up to begin with.
>Cover this, don't cover that, this is sexist against women, this is against my religion...
Car insurance don't give no fucks about what you do.
I personally pay the minimum coverage, I don't get into accidents. Someone might hit me but they should have the same coverage so we cover each other to a certain limit.
Health insurance could be the same way in that I should be able to pay for "liability" which would be the minimum I need basically catastrophic if something crazy happens, I'm covered.
Or I could pay more for all the perks.
But the end result is, I need maybe 50,000 worth of coverage. If I start making claims, my premiums go up and my deductible goes higher, just like cars.
If some broad wants to claim abortions and birth control, that's on her, she's costing the company more money but it would go against her not the whole of the plan.
The only thing that would need to be mandated is that insurance companies can't "total loss" a human like they do with cars.

This!!

The ACA is a tax on the middle class that creates two lower classes:
- the working lower class
- the gibs lower class

*PRC

If you get cancer or get in a car accident maybe insurance will make sense to you.

It’s not supposed to make financial sense to people who don’t use it. It’s by design that the healthy pay for the sick.

Yeah but the problem with that is that emergency health care isn't like buying a regular product. If you are in a bad car accident, you aren't going to be price checking hospital care from the back of the ambulance. I think that the overpricing of care is fucking ludicrous, but hospitals know they can pass they butt fucking on to the insurance companies who in turn pass them on to the insured.

>It’s by design that the safe pay for the reckless.

How is that any different?

they're all pretty much the same bullshit with different packaging. even Jesus hated organized religion, yet people still made one in his name.

It's not, which is the problem.

so much this

they might as well be peddling nuke insurance

>Hedge against yourself
From the consumer's end, sure.

I agree with everything else you said, except the conclusion.

Insurance should be optional, with regulations in place to ensure that non-insurance is as cost effective or more in the long run. Right now, our system has been heavily corrupted by various mechanisms for profit-sharing and price-rigging, making this a non-option.

Preventing the incredibly sick from dying is by far the most expensive part of medicine. Abortions and birth control are dirt cheap.

How much do the incredibly sick cost per year?

>Preventing an industry from existing
>No one would want catastrophic insurance
This is almost worse than Obamacare in terms of lost freedom.

businessinsider.com/most-expensive-drugs-in-america-2016-9/#viekira-pak-abbvie-34600-1

There are treatments that cost 100k+/month, and are required for the patient to continue living.

>companies dropping like flies
>only companies to offer options are subsidized heavily by the government
>not socialism
>that flag
Trolled me softly

>being a sodomite
Hell is for ever!

To be clear, I don't mind insurance companies existing. I just want them regulated to prevent the monopolistic, anti-competetive practices they've been using.

Actual arguments when?

Good nes, trump killed the insurance handouts

>paying double what other countries do for healthcare
>freedom
We already know Ancaps are retarded.

>misunderstanding socialism level - corporate subsidies

they lie on purpose. they are literally evol ( clinical psychopaths )

I think her biggest problem was that she wanted stability, but he was so paranoid of gold-diggers that he made himself look unreliable to anyone that didn't already know he was loaded. obviously their lifestyle differences would have ended the relationship anyways, but I feel like she was looking for stability, but he never bothered to at least give her peace of mind on the subject. I have a feeling it's the first time she's met an actual scrooge

This. How can the Left not see this? ACA only works if I'm about to fucking die. I can't even afford to see a doctor for normal check ups!

>A hospital basically charges you and your insurance company $100 or more for a fucking bandaid.

I got billed $243 for blowing my nose on a kleenex that was on the bedside in my recovery room after a surgery. On the breakdown of charges that I demanded they included a biohazard disposal; which ended up being emptying the trashcan that I threw that kleenex into.

The jews must be proud.

Democrats aren't "the Left" and ACA was literally written by Republicans.

That's the price for not dying in a bed because the government decided that only 25 people can get transplant operations per month, or having patients drinking water out of flower pots.

I'll take paying over being served shittily.

ACA was written by the republicans who didn't vote for it and had Pelosi saying the republicans had to vote on it for them to see what is in it?

You being retarded is a given, but are you this retarded?

>commie telling me about the "true" left
Fuck off

Yeah, that's because the market is subsidized by guaranteed checks, either government or individual plans.
The way the whole industry is structured is meant to make everything cost as much as possible.

You also get shittier service than every other western country, too, though.

>Democrats aren't "the Left"
It's true that they aren't commiefags like you but they are SJWs like you. You're not really all that different.

Yeah, and then you call the hospital and say "I don't have insurance and I'm never paying for this shit you fucking retards", and they give you a much lower bill.

Greater survival numbers, greater availability, and less waiting times are shittier service? Sure thing, bud.

>You also get shittier service than every other western country

The US?

SJWs aren't left-wing, either.

That's why I want regulations like this:
>Pharmacies must list actual sale prices for medication transactions
>Those prices must be available to all customers
This would make the option of no insurance financially tenable if you have any ability to save money.

Wrong. US hospitals are top tier. What the US has is worse health OUTCOMES because we're so fucking fat and unhealthy to start with, mostly because of spics and niggers

they are misrepresenting the argument for the other side. people don't want to be too reliant on the government for their healthcare, especially since bureaucracies tend to bloat costs even more. unfortunately our current healthcare system is filled with half-assed fixes that end up bloating prices more than single-payer or just outlawing insurance companies would ever do

Go to cash-only clinics and hospitals. The fact cash only clinics can give you the same service for a tenth of the price should tell you where the problem is.

Protip: it's not in the clinics which need not follow most medical payment regulations.

And why are pharmaceutical companies advertising on TV? Their drugs are equally or more addictive and dangerous than cigarettes ever will be.
You don't see cigarette ads anywhere anymore.

both.

Friendly reminder that if you made it out of childhood in the middle ages your life expectancy was around 65 to today's 75. Oh, and is modern medicine to thank for those ten years? Probably not. Modern farming, sanitation, insulation, clothing, not burning fires indoors all help. I bet if you crunched some numbers you could find that muh-science modern medicine has helped pretty much dick. Just keeps degenerates and deformed alive so they can shit up the gene pool.

Take the /fourhumors/ pill and save your fuckin money.

premiums go up if you're reckless to help ease up the burden on the responsible

Is Eugene MD /ourgu/?

>SJWs aren't left-wing, either.
LOL. Yes they are. I'll file you under "leftist that lies on purpose."

Obama is now Republican

does that mean he is also a racist

What's bloating our healthcare costs are not "half assed fixes", but legal liability. Hospitals overpay dramatically for supplies and do way too many tests, scans, and interventions because they do not want to be sued. Also because pharama companies overcharge us relative to europe; our healthcare spending subsidizes the lower drug costs over there.

No they aren't you fucking retard.

No. They just never bother to think what they're even talking about.

This is objectively false by every single one of those measures.

Also, 50 thousand Americans declare bankruptcy due to medical bills, and another 45 thousand die due to lack of access every year.

>Eugene Gu

Almost a palindrome.
And beware of surnames that end in a vowel.

My family once got billed some thousands for a doctor popping a dislocated finger back in

It had something to do with me pressing the nurse button; they only walk for like $500/hallway

Fuck black people, and fuck healthcare

so why did obama and democrats in congress vote for it?

its almost like they're all the same party and traitors to this country.

he wont make money off of quick check ups thats why doctors are against it. when you go to check a cold or get stiches they charge your insurance thousands but if people pay themselves they will have to drop it and he doesnt want to.

They get the bullet. And so do you.

they vote that way, so...

No, 45 thousand people die without insurance every year. Nobody dies because of lack of medical access because hospitals have to take you and keep you alive even if you could never ever pay for it. If you happen to die at the same time you were not insured, you did not die because you were not insured.

>insurance

How about instead of paying money to some jew every month, you get rid of insurance and then just pay medical bill if something were to happen?

>almost
No, it's exactly what they are. A corporate-owned single party pretending to be two parties.

Yes, and yes.

>he wont make money off of quick check ups thats why doctors are against it. when you go to check a cold or get stiches they charge your insurance thousands but if people pay themselves they will have to drop it and he doesnt want to.

Liberals aren't left-wing.

Also only a fucking retard would declare bankruptcy over medical debt, because medical debt is meaningless other than giving you a shitty credit rating. They can't take your house or your car or dock your wages or anything.

>ACA was literally written by Republicans
>literally got an entire single solitary 1 house vote from Republicans

They don't charge your insurance $100. They charge YOU $100 if you have no insurance because you're a bitch with no leverage.
Your insurance pays fuck all because the hospital knows the insurance company will send its patients to a different hospital if it doesn't get a good deal, so they negotiate a reasonable price.

Oh yeah, absolutely. That's why I want health insurance to be a set dollar limit and not a "covers this or covers that" plan.
Need a $200 teeth cleaning? Sure. Want to put it on your insurance? Go ahead but you need to pay the $500 deductible.
It doesn't make sense to use the insurance anymore.
But when you have $50,000 of coverage and you need monthly prescriptions or visits or whatever, you start to look at what you need and how much you have like a person with a bank account.
Doctors will have to start competing.

tfw your health insurance is almost as much as my rent

I may not be around to see you brown shirts get BTFO’d, but it will be great regardless.

DELET TIS!

Apply that to incredibly sick people.
What difference is there then?

No what isn't what?

Just to be clear, you believe:
1.) Other countries survival rates are higher.

2.) Other countries have more doctors aveilable to attend you.

3.) The USA has longer wait times for medical services than other nations?

And those are irrelevant to one question: is american healthcare service more effective than the rest of the world? The answer to that is obvious, and the cost for it is clearly worth it for thousands of people to go to the USA to get treatment because they would otherwise die in their socialist hellholes.

But we can go further! We know for a fact cash only clinics and hospitals not only cost fractions of the cost while providing better service. It's almost like most of the cost of the USA is brought by insurance regulations.