Is Sailor Moon (non-reboot) GOAT mahou shoujo?

Is Sailor Moon (non-reboot) GOAT mahou shoujo?

Not trolling, literally this is the only example of the genre I've seen

No

Cardcaptor Sakura, Madoka Magica and Utena are better

K

One of my former very shy/withdrawn students really liked Madoka Magica, should I watch it and then go back in time so I can connect with her better?

lists the top 4 (Sailor Moon included). I personally liked Sailor Moon the best of them, but I can see arguments for any of them.

There's also an argument that Utena isn't really a mahou shoujo, but I think it's fine to shoehorn it as one; it probably fits better than any other genre.

Most people on Sup Forums like CCS better (I think it's good, but not great). I personally couldn't get through Madoka a second time, but Kyouko x Sayaka are a cute.

To me, the original Sailor Moon anime had the right amount of jokes, great voice acting, and really insane boss sequences (especially in S1). S2 was your good, stereotypical Ikuhara and S3 was great with the outer senshi and sacrifice themes, but S4 kind of jumped the shark.

All in all, I probably feel it's the best. But Utena, CCS, and Madoka are definitely worth watching (I might even like Utena better, but I don't personally consider it MS).

Except if you consider Magic Knight Rayearth to be mahou shoujo. Then I feel it's better than any of them (one of my GOAT anime in general), but I personally wouldn't classify it as such (some do).

CCS, Nanoha and Madoka are probably the best examples of mahou shoujo. I also liked Heartcatch Precure, but it's a bit more traditional.

>nobody mentionning Princess Tutu
fags, all of you

Educate yourself.

>mentioning memes

Ojamajo doremi is the GOAT mahou shoujo

>Princess Tutu
>meme
Educate me please

Utena by faaar.

When does it get good?
I'm like 70 episodes in and there's still not much to it.

Doremi, Sailor Moon, and CCS are the only magical girl shows I truly care about.
I can't rate them all. They're all equally great.

Also Princess Tutu.
How could I forget about it.

If you don't like it by 70 episodes, it's not for you.
Doremi is a character driven show, not a plot driven one if that wasn't obvious enough.

Oh I like it alright enough, but I just don't get any of those masterpiece vibes people like to attribute to it. I think I'd rather just watch K-On! five times. I dunno, if I'm still not feeling it after Sharp then maybe I'll give up.

Sailor Moon is tied with Princess Tutu and CardCaptor Sakura for the best. But in truth, Sailor Moon is more of a Sentai/Slice of Life than a Mahou Shoujo.

yes, this is the best. CSC and the others mentioned don't even hold a candle

I mean, you don't have to think every anime you watch is a masterpiece haha.
I personally really loved the last 2 seasons, so i'd try taking your time and taking a break from the show.

Obviously, I just have these expectations cause it's been sold to me so hard. I hear Naisho and Dokkaan are the best ones though, so yeah.

Only gays disagree.

Madoka is the best mahou shoujo. It showed the strength and weakness of being mahou shoujo most effectively. You can't get better than that.

Technically wouldn't not showing the weaknesses be better?

Madoka, Nanoha, Yuuki Yuuna, etc aren't mahou shoujo. They are horrible perversions of a once great genre.

Out of all of these I prefer Tokyo Mew Mew

Nice rec thread

Nice blog post

Piss off to leddit, they'll wipe your ass better than we will

>only gays and non pedophiles agree
FTFY

Nice name, fag

>stop posting things I don't like that I can easily ignore

>Madoka
Nice meme

>People still calling Utena mahou shoujo

Nothing we can do about it except point out they're wrong. Problem is, these people don't accept that its wrong.

Green is best in pic.

If it's GOAT, the that is one shitty genre

and I say that as someone who enjoyed Sailor Moon.

>GOAT

It is up there. It really fucking dragged on in some parts but S is really great.

CCS is really solid, and Madoka is my favorite.

It's a plus that all three have different art styles and you can enjoy all three of them. Just two of them take forever to finish.

I need to rewatch Madoka. It was interesting for what it was. But I should start up Crystal's third season before doing that.

Where the fuck did "Puella" come from in Madoka's English title? Googling it it appears to be Latin for young girl...why not just go with the direct "Magic Girl Madoka Magika"?

>Is Sailor Moon (non-reboot) GOAT mahou shoujo?

Yes it really is, and not only that I'd say it's the best anime series full stop. Nothing else I've seen has as many interesting and well written characters, nor as many episodes with top tier direction nor as many fantastic plot points pulls off successfully. Sailor Moon provides the full package the very few anime really even approach.

Cardcaptor Sakura is more slice of life focused, but has much weaker characters and plot in general (despite actually being by far the better MotW show).

Utena has a fantastic final arc but honestly never reaches the same heights that SM does despite it's more elaborate planning and symbolic elements.

Late night otaku magical girl shows are completely different from regular mahou shoujo. The people who work on Precure and the previous shows in the tradition tend to have a far better handle on writing and a better sense for emotion.

>Sailor Moon is more of a Sentai/Slice of Life than a Mahou Shoujo.

What makes a 'real' mahou shoujo then? Do they have to be born witch girls who deliberately hide their powers from regular society despite using them for antics?

What anime would you say is better then?

A traditional mahou shoujo, like that of Sally Chan, would be closer to CCS. Sailor Moon was good because it did new things. So its not like its a bad thing.

I think the plot in CCS was way better than Sailor Moon.

Though, Sailor Moon's characters had more of an impact on me. Probably since they're older and all. And I enjoyed seeing Usagi start from a clutzy fighter, to a warrior that fights her battles with grace, and love.

Both shows have their pros and cons but they both manage to be pretty great.

My personal favorite.

This. Both shows are good for different reasons.

Sailor Moon was good for slice of life. I'd go out on a limb and say its the best slice of life I've seen in any show. Even better than shows that focus on Slice of Life exclusively. It also had great character development and I loved the ultra modern Tokyo setting. And Sailor Moon has by far the best reaction images in anime.

CCS is good for all the same things as well. Its just handled so differently that you can't compare them. The setting in CCS is more 'comfy'. And the character development is more touching and less comedic, though CCS still has comedy. But unlike Sailor Moon, I find the card catching and magic sub plot to be just as interesting as the slice of life parts. CCS also has the best onii san in anime. As well as having its own selection of good reaction images.

Both Usagi and Sakura are about equal to me as good characters.

>All these serious answers in an obvious rec thread
You are the reason modern Sup Forums sucks and you need to kill yourselves.

Fun fact. Back in 2005 when Sup Forums was founded, there was a rec general. And Sup Forums didn't fall apart because of it.

One rec general is still far less harmfull than several rec threads, like we currently have.

> GOAT mahou shoujo
> literally this is the only example of the genre I've seen
> Not trolling

That was the point.

"Puella Magi" literally means "Girl of the Magician". Elevens can't into Latin grammar.

>Impying the super sentai battles that Sailor Moon brought wasn't a perversion too.
If you are going to be a purist, be a purist, and pick some show closer to the original Toei majokkos like CCS or Doremi

>only example of the genre you've seen
>GOAT mahou shoujo!!!
user. I love Sailor Moon a lot, and even i'm embarrassed reading this.

I think it was the real intent of the Japanese title too. gg managed to guess correctly based on some creative fonts in japanese or something that could be read in different ways, and they realized that puella was actually the correct way. I don't remember how it was.

How can people like Nanoha? Sure, the action scenes were nice, and the plot was coherent without asspulls, but that's all it has going for it. The character interaction is atrocious, every time the characters interact it feels so artificial, it really oozes through that it was written for otaku. It's painful to watch most of the time due to the characters. And the plot is nothing special to make up for it, it's just a generic anime plot that does nothing interesting, with a not particularly good presentation either. The nice action scenes come nowhere close to make up for the characters and uninteresting plot.

It is though.

Sailor Moon is the grandmother of its branch of mahou shoujo, the branch with weekly fights where the magic was in large part winning those fights. Contrast with shows with girls who have a much broader spellbook of powers that feeds their weekly adventures (which is probably what people are moaning and pissing about when they talk about "real" mahou shoujo).

There are older shows that did what SM did, but none with its massive success and influence. The only newer show that probably eclipsed its success was Madoka Magica, but that's really a whole other animal. SM is unironically about little girls' dreams of being a heroine princess, fighting evil and falling in love, and Madoka only cared about wanting you to expect those things so it could take you on a ride.

And Shugo Chara deserves a mention too.

Madoka made less waves than Precure.

>Yes it really is, and not only that I'd say it's the best anime series full stop. Nothing else I've seen has as many interesting and well written characters, nor as many episodes with top tier direction nor as many fantastic plot points pulls off successfully.
t. only seen 1 anime

Are yall fucking retarded? I wasn't stating my opinion--I was asking for others'. Someone on Sup Forums had claimed Sailor Moon S and SuperS were GOAT so I figured I'd head here to see if that was bluster or not.

Not once in this thread did I ask for recommendations of other anime. Why would it asspain you so much anyway? Is part of discussion not sharing recommendations?

Precure is like an institution, particularly since it's really just for little kids anyhow. Girls might grow up, and think back to when it was the best thing ever to them, but I'm not sure it makes waves.

But influential for sure.

This. Endearing characters and situations, Umakoshi expressiveness, a fantastic sense of community, continually improves upon itself, some of the best directed episodes by veterans such as Hosoda, Yamauchi, Igarashi, Nagamine, Junichi Sato and the most hard-hitting finale ever. GOAT.

For me Cardcaptor Sakura is superior but it may not appeal so much to an older audience

Sailor Moon was great but as far as mahou shoujo goes Cardcaptor Sakura and Princess Tutu are tied in 1st place for me. CCS makes my heart melt and despite being very episodic at first, never, for a moment it made me feel bored. It also has lovable characters and notable growth. Princess Tutu on the other hand has a beautiful storytelling with many artistic elements and symbolism that makes it endearing.

Madoka isn't a mahou shoujo anime, just a bad genderbent Kamen Rider Ryuki

CCS Manga is a lot better than the anime with its filler shit

Utena isn't a mahou shoujo but it's amazing

In conclusion you're dumb as fuck

I think it's the most essential. I know there were others before it but the original Sailor Moon defined magical girl.

Cardcaptor Sakura is probably my favorite mahou shojo. Others reference really heavily off of SM formula but CS has so much charm by focusing on the one main character.

>Someone on Sup Forums had claimed Sailor Moon S and SuperS were GOAT

I wouldn't disagree with this.

In general:

>Sailor Moon is best watched for the SoL
>SuperS isn't a good season

Either pick both or none. SuperS gets way too much flack for not being S-part-2 but has easily the best Slice of Life in the series. It's arguably the most underrated season of anime.

Recommend me a mahou shoujo. I want something fluffy and soothing like ojamajo or CCsakura (please don't recommend Fate/kaleid...that is lolicon bait)

I've watched
Cardcaptor Sakura (fav)
Princess Tutu (fav)
Ojamajo Doremi (fav)(all seasons)
Sailor Moon (all seasons)
Precure (most seasons)
Sugar Sugar Rune
Kamichama Karin
Shugo Chara
Tokyo Mew Mew
Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha
Kaitou Saint Tail
Fancy Lala
Pastel Yumi
Minky Momo
Full moon wo Sagashite
Madoka

I know I have watched more but these are the ones to come to my head first

There's this great site called Google. You should try it.

What did she do to garner such disdain from the megucas? Madoka in particular isn't the type to be disgusted by people.

me on the left

One main character is the classic mahou shoujo formula, Sailor Moon broke the mold when it brought in the sentai team elements and a lot of the manga/shows that have come since have copied that move.

Most of R, S and SuperS are the best that TV Sailor Moon has to offer. Basically the parts of the show that Ikuhara directed really.

I fucking loved SuperS.
Honestly I enjoyed it more than S. It was so much fun to watch with Ikuhara's wackiness, and Chibiusa/Helios interactions.
I loved it more than S.

I just feel like Precure ended up creating more stuff for the genre than Madoka.

Not denying Madoka's quality, but overall the ideas it used are pretty standard, the difference being on how far they take the concepts.
MCs have been selfless and willing to sacrifice themselves since Sally.
There were quite a few aloof magical girls with dark hair and purple color color.
Kyoko is pretty much any new girl that joins up a team.

I'm oversimplifying, and I know there is a lot more than that, but still, I feel like creators embrace more Precure stuff than Madoka stuff, even on shows like genei and yuyuyu.

Madoka's biggest contribution isn't really mahou shoujo related-- it's the level of psychological introspection and complex situations that break down its characters that it really does well. That, and the shock value it produces in a 12 episode span.

I will agree with you on complexity and shock value (of the good kind). But the psychology of Madoka wasn't a strong point in my opinion, to this day I don't understand why Sayaka went down like she did.

Anyway, I think that while she show was based on classic archetypes, I feel that on the long run it is indeed creating a new gen of character types, even if just to avoid comparisons with that show.

For example, symphogear and wixoss (which I know are not examples of ms) started to play with the idea of the MC being the one with dark secrets. I also heard something about Yuuna from yuyuyu and a demon king? I don't follow that one so it's hard. But yeah, it is an unusual plot device that suddenly became common place, especially because the decades old selfless MC is not on the best light in the otaku late night zone.

In daytime however, things go on as usual.

They definitely don't compare well 1-to-1 like that, mostly because Madoka doesn't really give anything back to mahou shoujo. It's not trying to riff on colour stereotypes or how little girls become heroes, its just meant to be a rollercoaster that's fueled by the audience's expectations (and optimism, to a certain degree). But it's hugely influential in that it's a new benchmark for how those twist-mindbreak-driven stories are viewed. Because it was so successful, everyone's just a liiiiittle bit more on-guard every time a show looks cheerful and SoL'y but has even the teeniest tiniest chance of going dark. The so-called "mahou shoujo" that it infuences is just that, in quotes and with big caveats, since it's usually only the late-night seinen stuff.

But if you're talking about the actual girly shows, yes, Precure is pretty much the gold standard now. Pink means MC, they are part of teams that are colour-coded, there's a naive innocence in the way they fight for justice, and they actually kick and punch their enemies. And the similar standard for solo mahou shoujo is probably still CCS.

The show definitely was based on traditional archetypes. However, it played into the flaws of each individual based on such a archetypes, and it fleshes out how multiple events and circumstances warp the mindset of each individual in a way that brings about their downfall. Sayaka's worldview is completely dismantled before her and she loses sight of what she values, while burdened by a number of stressors.

I don't know that the characters themselves have actual influence in other works, the most that can be said is that it sensationalized injecting "grimdark" into the genre, not that it was the first mahou shoujo to do so.

>it's the level of psychological introspection and complex situations

Which it sucks at comparatively against most any decent 'normal' mahou shoujo.

Nobody who paid attention to the show's staff was caught off guard by Madoka.

Is this shit a mahou shoujo? I saw it on open tv like twice and it seemed to me like a blatant plagiarism of CCS. I didn't care too much about it but this thread reminded me of its existence.

Gonna need a source there buddy.

Sakura is GOAT, Sailor Moon is most influential.

It's not great but I wouldn't call it shit (except the animation in some parts). The virtual reality setting makes it somewhat unique. It really doesn't have much in common with CCS.

Is being a technologic illiterate a counter-effect of being a mahou shoujo?

K I N O
I
N
O

If you really liked Sailor Moon, Pretty Cure is pretty similar, the modern day equivalent and there's plenty of seasons to work through of girls kicking monster butt.

Try some mahou shoujo where there aren't monsters to fight though. Those sorts of MOTW shows are so limited by their format. I'm watching this right now and really enjoying it. Way cute. Way fun. Director also worked on Doremi which is another good one.

Never mind mahou shojo. Sailor Moon is one of the GOAT animes, bro.

This guy is wrong. The so-called "boss sequences" are the worst of the show. They are what weigh Sailor Moon down against the other great animes like CCS.

Whoa. MY...

Here is another breed of Sailor Moon detractors. These are the slobbering idiots who say "the darker, the edgier, the bleaker, the 'deeper', the better, because it's more TRU 2 LYF and shows what the WURLD IZ RLY LYK". These goobers never advanced past teenage angst.

This guy is a big ol idiot too. He thinks because Sailor Moon's plots tend to be bigger in scope, they are better than CCS's plots. Just like those "darker is better" idiots. This time "bigger is better".

As for the characters, sure. No one is gonna pick Tomoyo and Shaoran over Minako, Ami, Makoto, and Rei. Sorry. No one's gonna pick fucking Eriol over Tuxedo Mask. No one's gonna pick god damned Yue over the Outers.

Holy shit. A right opinion in this thread. W-Who are you?

Certainly CCS does not reach the low points that Sailor Moon does; it far surpasses SM in dealing with emotional content. You need to be real though. CCS should appeal to any audience except idiots, because CCS respects your intelligence and tells a great story. What a master class in storytelling by CLAMP.

Indeed. I won't say it should be anyone's favorite season. It may not even be my own even though I loved it, but I will say that they perfected the Sailor Moon formula in Super S. You can recognize any goober just by their opinion on Super S. The less they like it, the more they are a goober, and the less attention you should pay to them.

>This guy is wrong. The so-called "boss sequences" are the worst of the show.

Dude, I cannot agree with you. You'd be correct to point out that the "boss sequences" are not consistently good, as many of them are just mediocre melodrama, but the best of them are some of the best parts of Sailor Moon and are absolutely essential to the total experience. I flatly reject the idea that you can reduce Sailor Moon to its SoL and have that be representative of the series' worth. The anime arcs and capstones for Nethrite, Zoicite, Saphir, Eudial and Mistress 9 were each fantastic and stand out in their own way. You'd not be wrong to be critical of things like the anime season 1 finale or every fucking piece of bullshit involving Nehelenia though, which I consider severely overrated.

>This guy is a big ol idiot too.
I guess I sure am an idiot then. Saying that Sailor Moon's plots are better because of their shear scope is not even something I disagree with, but it's not the simple fact of being bigger alone that leads me to feel this way, it's that SM really takes advantage of its scope by using it to thoroughly explore themes in ways that would be weaker, less impactful or even outright impossible were it narrower. This is why the advantage is serious instead of trivial. In the same way, darkness can be good if it enables things that otherwise work, even if it is not automatically better by its own virtue.

>Indeed.
The guy you're responding to here is also me, just so you know. I highly value the more down to earth, character focused parts of the series, which when lacking gives you, well, the manga. S is the best season in my eyes because it successfully combines its SoL, the plot and thematic elements together in such an elegant and powerful way, even if the character development in it is weaker than in SuperS.

Oh shit, I forgot to mention Iron Mouse's ending episode. That definitely deserves a mention, it's just it didn't come to mind because what makes it good it has nothing to do with the qualities of the villain or fight sequence, but it's otherwise absolutely an example of a "boss sequence" episode being the highlight of the arc.

...you know, if you make a contract with me, I can make that time travel bit happen.

Fuck off furball

>more loli fanservice than late night "lolicon" series Prisma Illya
Anime back then was awesome.

Nobody who paid attention would've been shocked by Mami, anyhow. But if you're dissecting a show's staff beforehand to deduce every possible thing that could happen that might otherwise be surprising, this show probably wasn't for you anyhow. You don't have to be a retard to like Madoka, but it wanted to take you for a gutpunchy ride, not test you on your anime-smarts and traumatize you if you failed.

I'm not sure that the show was ever meant to be a mystery that was meant to be figured out, and I'd be really surprised if the show's creators thought they were outsmarting the audience. There's just enough foreshadowing so that you might just start to suspect some shit is up on a first viewing, and to layer a bit of meaning into repeated viewings.

But if you're the kind of person to watch E03, cross your arms, roll your eyes and drawl, "Yeah that was sooo predictable", you might be better off spending your evenings jerking off to how smart you think you are than watching shows like this.

>CCS Manga is a lot better than the anime with its filler shit
I've never read the CCS manga but tell me, what wrong with filler?
The Sailor Moon anime is 90% filler compared to the manga, and yet people prefer it overwhelmingly. Why is it the only show that gets a pass on it's filler? What makes it different from all the others?

Not him, but since it can't go into plot, I think sometimes filler ends up being pure repetitive chaff. Some shows do a decent job of fleshing out characters or the world while they're stalling for the manga, but whether they succeed or not is a pretty subjective call.

>The Sailor Moon anime is 90% filler compared to the manga

No it's not though. The manga is bad because it's just as fillery as the anime, but there's just much less content overall. Most of the stuff that happens in the manga has no real significance, as most of the characters are completely interchangeable and have no personality so each manga act that introduces a new character is usually about as meaningful as a random anime episode that does whatever with some side character and a monster which never gets mentioned again.

Cutie Honey is the best mahou shoujo manga/anime ever made. Fuck Sailor Moon, Cardcaptor Sakura, Lyrical Nanoha. and Meduka Meguca.

Sailor Moon fucking killed me with how repetitive it was.
After the first season i thought things were going to change but it was literally just more of the same and I just had to quit.

For the record, I've watched
Cardcaptor Sakura
Madoka
YuYuYu
and Futari Wa Precure
I'm in the middle of the second series of Futari wa now.'
Maybe a couple others that I'm forgetting. If you want to count stuff like Utena, Cutey Honey, and Kill la Kill then I've seen those too.

I was thinking I'd try watching Sailor Moon again lately though. It was a long time ago that I watched it after all, and I like the soundtrack.

Cheap Akko-chan ripoff