Macross Delta

>They are completely heterosexual.

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>they are completely relevant to the plot still

Speaking of which,

OTP is pic related.

>they are deep characters

Why is this allowed?

They're going to release an album on Christmas with Kaname version of all the songs.

SCREENCAP THIS.

Continuing from the last thread, the general consensus among fans in terms of what's canon in Macross is that the events of the TV shows like SDF and the Frontier movies is how things mostly happened, but the movies are how they looked. But then people decide to make the endings of the movies canon too because it seems to work better that way/is cooler, like Boldoza being BTFO or the whole end of Sayonara no Tsubasa/Ranka getting told.

>That sexy beast Durandal in the flashback
I miss it so much ;_;
Also, Durandal >>> Siegfried.

>they have developed personalities

This is just normal sibling behavior.

>canon
None is canon, all are just shitty movies/shows based on real life events.

>with Kaname version of all the songs
But why?

Maximum sadness.

The best way to approach Macross is to approach the same way people approach the Mad Max movies.

All of Macross are basically Cinderella fairy tales, and canonity is unimportant. Yes, they are canon but they are also oral history of the future told by a Japanese man from the present. They are not committee-based storytellers like the Marvel Cinematic Universe or The Star Wars Expanded Universe.

Oh my fucking god, I just saw the episode. Did they made the Protoculture into some sort of super omniscient forerunner race that was capable of enacting their plan of weaponizing music many fucking years after their death through genetic manipulation? This is approaching aquarion levels of stupidity here.

>They are not committee-based storytellers
>dude add the triangle

REPOST

Remember the experiment conducted 7 years ago that those shady seele guys mentioned? I wonder if their motives and research purposes are aligned with Lady M's? Or it's just that there is a different research going on by the NUNS.

Damn, everything is just a mystery. There is this enigma that has yet to reveal about NUNS and now we have another which lady M with only 7 episodes down the road.

That's kind of shitty since it means everything simultaneously is and is not canon. I wish Kawamori would just man up and say what is and isn't canon.

What "plan?" They died out so they clearly weren't that omniscient.

It's just Space Arab merchant rusing Chaos and Freyja in general.

>many fucking years after their death through genetic manipulation
It was clearly done while they were alive chuckle fuck. Music was just their inbuilt kill switch for organic machines. Sad thing was the Zent kill bots got a little too keen and fucked them rightly. Now everyone is starting to discover that they still have a kill switch in their genes from way, way, back when, because they're still in line with their protoculture designs.

Don't worry, once Sony Pictures go bankrupt the Robotech/Macross film rights go to Disney and we might see a Star Wars/Star Trek/MCU-like canon for the Macross Universe for once.

And Shoji Kawamori will appear as cameos just like Stan Lee as a big fuck you by Disney to Sony and Harmony Gold.

ReiRei is mine!

Why is this show so gay?

Because you touch yourself.

It's a product of the times

Am I allowed to marry her?

I have no idea what their plan is, but somehow, someway, the Protoculture realizing how important music is (seriously?), implanted the importance of music into the fucking DNA of the races they've genetically manipulated is facepalming.

I nearly dropped this shit only to come back and find those twist bombs

Are we.. okay with this?

If you don't she'll be a cake. Go for it, with my blessing.

It's just an inbuilt control for their slave constructs. What's the big deal here? Ever since then people have used it to control others and harness power.

Yes?

Because the Protoculture had recognized the importance of music and weaponized it. Apparently, fold magic, EVIL series, genetic manipulation, super advance energy weapons/shields are less important than music as it is the one thing that was imprinted into the other race's DNA. Races are modified to have their evolution based around music. If that's not facepalm worthy, then I don't know what is.

"Seriously?" Do you think music is somehow not important or something? Are you denying the huge importance of music to humanity and how powerful it is?

You know the Taliban banned music because Muslims believe music was invented by Satan, to lead people astray, because music is more alluring than the word of Allah?

There are legends that persist to this day because drunks started singing about them.

Is it so farfetched to believe that a super advanced alien race would realize the power of music on the psyche and try to use it as a form of control?

Praying for Mirage's happiness.


also , they will fall for Bogue.

T. Boogie

Perhaps I misheard but when did Proto realise music was apex. From what I recall they just became interested in it late into their empire and its emotional effects. They then built it into their creations. The magic of music is not implicit, it's an effective emotional tool, the direct effect however comes from the proto. Since people, their creations, have used it for countless reasons as they're built to respond best to it. It's an artificial preference built into all proto things because they're subservient to it.
They're drawn so heavily to music that they even sing ancient songs unknowingly. Don't over think it m8

youtube.com/watch?v=v18vtbpz73k

>2.40 mins to the video, Misa said something miserably about her being an officer of an army that's bound to lose.
>Mirage said all she knows is flying in the end of episode 19 and just so happens that she is loser.
>Both girls have the tendency to put up a strong front and keep anything that's sad into themselves.

Both lines are said when the MC was around retrospectively. History repeats itself.

There are way more interesting things about music neurologically speaking. For example it's one of the few stimuli that can activate effectively generalised activity simultaneously. It starts up audio, sight, smell, touch, memory, motor, and speech areas. It's in a league of its own in that regard and it might become a powerful tool in treating issues in the brain.

You need to fucking stop. Misa deserves better than Hikaru for one, for two she deserves MUCH better than being directly compared to Mirage.
Please, if there's mercy in your heart, stop this nonsense.

>Mikumo is a robot theories were true
My sides left the galaxy

Yeah, I am not understanding what this guy's hang up is and why it's so unbelievable that an alien race would try to "weaponize" music. Music is extremely powerful even in real life. Somehow people can accept shit like fold quartz that lets you feel shit from across time and space by having jewelry of it on you but music technology is too far man, too far.

The fact that the final Protoculture creation (the ruins in the Brisingr Clutster) reacts only to singing, pretty much cements the Protoculture's view that music is apex. Or the fact that of all the things to imprint into the DNA, it was their love of music.

>Please, if there's mercy in your heart, stop this nonsense

I tried to stop but I just couldn't get over with those 'muh tradition' cues.

>old lady with an ex boyfriend won over the teen idol

It still surprises me. Kawamori breaks all the rules

It was useful and they needed to control people. It doesn't mean it's the ultimate weapon any more than reaction weaponry means atomics are the ultimate technology. It's merely their genetic fuckery is the ultimate weapon and it uses a powerful medium, music.
As they've stated. When they got to Brisingr and started making temples they were pulling a last ditch attempt at stopping the Zents. They went full subrogation mode because they were out gunned in pure violence.

No more Misa until she's announced as Lady M, okay?

Hearing Love Drifts Away in Delta brought back a flood of memories. Seeing Minmay walk away as it started snowing at the end. Roy and Kakizaki's deaths. Hikaru and Misa trapped in the SDF while it transformed.
There isn't a canon. As for SDF, general consensus is TV show events with movie aesthetic + Ai Oboete Imasuka played during the epic battle. This consensus is based on the fact that every time SDF is brought up in subsequent series or material it's usually played out this way. For Frontier it's harder to determine due to the lack of post-Frontier material, but it does look like a case of mostly tv show events mixed a few movie events + Sayanora no tsubasa costumes at the end.

Why did you basically repeat what I said?

Because music relies on the sense of hearing. If you can't hear, then it's utterly worthless. Nevermind the fact that music is but one facet of culture and that numerous studies had shown sight is the most important of all of our senses.

I'm hanged up on it because of how they basically turned music as the 'greatest shit ever' by retroactively making the Protocutlure imprint it into the DNA. it's like making every other achievement utterly useless in comparison. All because he wants to justify idols and songstresses in the Macross-verse.

[Picture Related]
>Walkure's songs are considered as dangerous weapons
>Walkure consists of singers portrayed as fancy idolish dolls
>SDF episode title 'Satan Dolls' foreshadowing has been fulfilled.

SASUGA KAWAMORI

Did you miss how everything Space ISIS said was just his theory? He could just be full of shit or only half-right or something.

The Protodevlin were already sealed away at this point. This is the last remaining Protoculture after the civil war/Protodevlin events. They didn't need to mind-control back the Zents.

>Nevermind the fact that music is but one facet of culture and that numerous studies had shown sight is the most important of all of our senses.
Okay but music research is pretty new m8. There's a lot of neural implications that haven't been explored. Now while sight is important for survival auditory senses are what he use for finer emotions and social dealings. If you were to manipulate people it would be with sound, or more specifically music as it has unique properties to both talking and ambient sounds.
I am conducting research on it right now, in fact. Trust me on this one, boss.

>Muh canon
What the hell is the big deal about canon? Does it somehow make each story better? Does it somehow make the themes presented in each story better or clearer. Is Hikaru sticking with Misa over Minmay any less justified for his character growth because there isn't a "canon"?

Why the hell would they spent an entire episode for a lie? Especially since Roid was saying the same shit in his conversation with Keith. This is an infodump episode, this is when they start revealing all the shit that's been going on so far.

did anyone else think that thing chuck did with his gills was really gross?

Gee, someone doing research on music is saying music is great. It's not as if you have a confirmation bias from the start.

I just think Chuck is gross

Well you know, knowing what actually happened in history is a pretty big deal. Fuck off, you retarded tripfag.

Was Muhammad around 500,000 years ago witnessing everything? No, it's all just his theory and his research. It was an infodump episode, but it was also to shake the fuck out of Walkure and make everyone unsure of themselves to set up another conflict for the conclusion.

Maybe he's right about everything, maybe he's wrong and at the end they'll say music isn't a weapon and it's hopes and dreams and lollipop kisses or whatever. We don't know yet. Wait until episode 25 to get mad.

Actually it isn't. My interest is neural I just happened to fall into music this year after my first project was shelved.
The papers are out there if you look dude. I didn't believe some of the results initially when I saw a documentary but it's really legitimate.

I guess I worded my post wrong, what I should have said is that, that appears to be the case with SDF because that's how Kawamori, et al present it whenever SDF is brought up in subsequent works, but Frontier is a bit murkier in what events are canon, but it seems more of a synthesis between series and movie than what is shown for SDF.

>They didn't need to mind-control back the Zents
>Marduks uses song to mind control Zents

Implying Macross II events are canon.

>what actually happened in history
But it's not history. It's a media franchise with mostly self-contained stories set in the same universe.

I'm the guy that's been saying music had been mind-control from the start. And I'm saying this has gone full retard. Because it probably is sunshine and lolipops since Kawamori is never going to villainify music, especially in Macross. It's going to be some sort of super-share-collective-consciousness (ala Gundam Newtype bullshit) where everyone shares their hopes, dreams, feelings and rainbows, and they super-understand each other through the power of singing. Jesus fucking Christ, I'm getting diabetes from this and it hasn't even started yet.

Do you really not understand why people might want to know what version of events is true? Like wouldn't you want to know if Hitler was actually history's greatest monster or did nothing wrong, or if it was somewhere in between? What if every time you tried to learn about WW2 some fuckfaces like you said "lol why's that so important it's all about themes and character growth lol" Would be annoying, wouldn't it?

And what about other medium such as visual works like movies? Is music the 'greatest shit ever' or merely one of many things that can influence people? What about smell (it's the most important sense tied to memory), what about touch, or taste and such? Music is influential, but it is hardly GOAT. Which is my point.

This is the same franchise where a guy sang a duet with an alien soulsucker elf thing so hard that he managed to make an aeons-old eldritch space vampire from another dimension begin singing along which let him generate his own fun force so he could live forever on his own self-satisfaction and then everyone lived happily ever after besides Gamlin.

Is music being the great uniter that lets everyone share their love and dreams really that out of line for Macross?

Have you watched that video on Youtube where someone takes the ending of ET and removes the music?

But there not the same thing, not even close. Hitler and the events of WW2 are real historic events. The events in Macross aren't real. Knowing what "actually" happened in the Macross universe is pointless because ultimately it's fiction.

A better example would be Church canon, but then again Church canon is steeped in defining what events are true (since to the Church they're not just stories but written history and the written will of God).

Shit taste, Kairos > Drakken > Siegfried > Durandal.

>b-b-but one thing is real and the other is fiction so who cares what "really happened" in fiction

Are you really this stupid?

And have you ever closed your eye while watching anime? I tried it once because I was curious about which sense I would miss the most and without sound, I could still read subtitles, but without sight, I was confused as fuck. Music isn't everything. Hell, I tried audio books once, I promptly gave it up and went back to reading.

>And have you ever closed your eye while watching anime? I tried it once because I was curious about which sense I would miss the most and without sound, I could still read subtitles, but without sight, I was confused as fuck.

Was it because you don't know Japanese?
I haven't done that since I don't know Japanese, so I'd be confused as fuck.

Mikumo: Don't let me down...
Mikumo: Tonight, we'll find that constellation!
Freyja: Don't tell me now - I don't want to know when the next shooting star will come...
('Cause I'm alive right here, in this moment.)
Freyja: Don't tell me now - even if this will be my last time, I don't want to regret it...
(Y'know, you and I are here together.)
Freyja: The wind begins to blow without warning.

So if I get this straight, Freyja's lyrics are being about being afraid of death and her lines are focused on "don't tell me now"
Mikumo is saying fuck that, let's embrace it, and she doesn't want Freyja to disappoint her.

Mikumo confirmed for last boss?

It's not. But it's the whole 'Protocutlure realize music is GOAT and made sure everyone else knew about it' is the part that I can't get over. Because it basically elevated music to more important than life itself instead of being it one facet of culture. They basically deified music.

I even tried it on a live-action series. Same thing. Sight is simply too important. I can live without hearing, but I would legitimately consider suicide if I can't see anything anymore. Seriously, take a day to try it out. Blindfold yourself for a day and then use ear-plugs on the next. The sheer inconvenience from being deaf is nothing compared to being blind.

Please post your face when it's revealed Lady M is Misa calling the shots from beyond the event horizon

meant to say 'live action American TV series'

Movies have a large influence, yes. What I am talking about though is inbuilt neuroactivity. If it's a song you know well and have history with it can activate almost everything at once. It's not the inherent manipulation of emotion (though that is there too) that I am most interested in but the unique ability to tap and more importantly synthesise a wide variety of activations.
My work is tangential to this, however. I don't have money for fancy equipment and shit. I have read up, of course, in order to find something related to do though.

Well the Protoculture also made every race humanoid, too, so maybe they planned for sight as well.

Reminder that Mylene lost Basara.

Kaname is for ___________

I don't get what you're arguing? Why do you feel that having a set order of "actual events" is important?

>I don't get what you're arguing? Why do you feel that having a set order of "actual events" is important?

Then just fuck off.

Think of it as watching one of those shitty t.v mini series that aren't that accurate and cover one or two important people and then make up characters for all the close friends and relatives for drama between big historical set pieces.

eternal melancholy

Bullying.

And what I'm saying is that while music can affect the mind, it is not the only thing and most certainly not the most effective. Music is good, but it's not the be-all and end-all by itself.

Maybe it's dancing for the visual part?

But wouldn't you want to know what really happened? If you watch some fictionalized historical movie like 300 or something do you then just accept it and never wonder how things went in real life?

>b-but it's just a cartoon it's not real

It's a series people have been following for three decades, maybe they would like to know how things actually went down, instead of being told that no one will ever know how shit went down because it's all just movies.

You guys really can't understand why people might be curious as to what's canon?

>and most certainly not the most effective
Now see this is both arguable AND situational. The thing about music is that as a stimuli it is unique. Sight, sound and smell are all nice but you're comparing hearing and sight. That's wrong. Music isn't hearing hearing is a great many things. Music is an auditory stimuli and a miraculous one at that. Is it the best at manipulating? God knows, we're not allowed to do that sort of research any more. Does it connect with the most areas and parts of the brain? Yes. Does that mean it should in theory have a greater potential? Yes. Is there research into music and mood? Yes.
I am not an instrumentalist or even a fan of audio books, I prefer reading. Still though, there are things that, as it stands, only music can do as a simple singular input.

This has been what Protoculture has been since roughly Macross Zero. In DYRL it was just a sort of coincidence that the Protoculture experiment that became Mankind retained memories of what the Protoculture liked to listen to. Then Zero established that the Protoculture also could predict the societal development of their experiments and were willing to install world-destroying robots before they ran away from the Supervision Army in case their experiments became violent.

Now it's literally
>The Protoculture planned all this
>Music isn't anything special to mankind, it's just a weapon
>You thought SDF was a hopeful and optimistic series? Fuck you, it was ancient precursor magic.
Literally the worst episode.

That entire post is essentially 'CITATION NEEDED'. But for now, let's just drop this because it's quite clear our arguments aren't actually arguments and just nitpicking at semantics.

Replace music with Spartans, and you have the Forerunner trilogy from Halo.

>You now realize that every non-Plus Macross was just "an ancient evil awakens" all along

ayyy lmao, please let it happen.

You see I would and I wouldn't. We want to know because we can't. Were it on t.v then, no. Sometimes you can just be happy watching the stupid shit on t.v. Sure sometimes an historic event will capture my fancy and I'll look into it in detail but do most people?

Loads of our common history is filled with myths and misconceptions that have been solved or unearthed years ago. People just don't fucking care. You watch it so you have a basic enough understanding of the event. To use WWII, Hitler lost, churchill was cool and America fucked Japan. The mini series main character who's some pilot, doesn't matter. He might be real but nobody knows which of the two girls that he was seeing, he decided to stay with on his final night before being sent on his final mission. The show will fill the blank to make it fun but history, however, keeps on moving either way.

I'm usually a big lorefag but Macross is 'fun' and I'm happy if it is.

hugg, not fugg

I can link a doco if you'd like but I'm sure as fuck not dredging up articles if you don't really care.

Alright, let's have some real talk. Disregarding the shipping and music, is Delta actually good, incredibly mediocre or just plain bad?

Didn't the singer and pilot resonance phenomenon already happened during the Vajra conflict? Why didn't Mr. Berger bring that up during his exposition?

I'm wondering because Its like as if this is their first time knowing about this resonance phenomenon happening while it has already happened 8 years ago?

the best WALKURE

The way things are going, the last few eps will make or break it.