ITT: Overrated manga

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You shut your whore mouth. Nausicaa is a wildly overrated movie but it's a damn fine manga.

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Somewhat. When the titular character is an overpowered Mary Sue, it really sucks the life out of the manga.

She's just a newtype

But she didn't turn into a vegetable.

Monster.

you're favorite manga

It had an absolute buttload of flaws, especially the shitty ending. And I'm not talking about the crypt, I'm talking how the last page is literally "everyone lives happily ever after THE END". It's just as bad as the movie's.

Alright, let me start this thread with a serious reply, Hunter x Hunter.

>implying I'm not serious with Monster

I'm gonna get the obvious out of the way

One Piece
Berserk
Fullmetal Alchemist
Vagabond
20th Century Boys
Vinland
JoJo

you make me sad at times Sup Forums

Berserk

kill yourself stupid

That wasn't the ending at all. The ending was a little blurb about no one knowing what happened to Nausicaa next.

Anyway the ending is spectacular. It's the perfect conclusion to the science vs nature narrative in so many different ways. It almost feels wrong at first but the further you ruminate on it the more and more you realize it can't be any other way.

It's objectively one of the best manga ever written so no matter what you say you will forever be on the wrong side of history and also a faggot.

>It's objectively one of the best manga ever written so no matter what you say you will forever be on the wrong side of history and also a faggot.
This sentence alone makes you the faggot here, not him.

She damn well tried

excuse me, Nausicaa is a upper echelon of anime, its of patrician level.

It even inspired this man to create a godly immaculate doujin

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>It's just as bad as the movie's.

Nausicaa dies in the movie.

>It's objectively one of the best manga ever written so no matter what you say you will forever be on the wrong side of history and also a faggot.

Didn't even know there was a manga t.b.h.

wait, she does?
I don't remember that.

There's a reason that classics exist and it's because millions of people (including thousands of critics) have ardently studied and attempted to pick apart works from every conceivable angle over and over again for decades on end and have repeatedly failed to find significant shortcomings.

The collective experiences of millions of different people from every possible background all disagree with that retarded and ill thought out post. We're not debating the merits of some currently airing show but a venerated and enshrined masterpiece that has been vetted several million times over.

If you are going to try and take down such a work you better come at it with significantly more than "the ending was shitty" and then misstating what the ending was.

Otherwise you just look like a faggot on the wrong side of history.

You see her grave at the very end in the toxic jungle.

20th Century Boys
Akira
Berserk
Vinland Saga
Monster
Vagabond
FMA
One Piece
Murata's OPM
HxH
Dorohedero
Onani Master Kurosawa
Holyland
Dragon Ball
Liar Game
Death Note
Bakuman
Shingeki no Kyojin
Koe no Katachi

Nice. Good apply this generic post that says nothing to pretty much anything. Hope to use this for Naruto.

You are completely retarded and probably think Miyazaki movies are the best thing ever as well, since they area also considered "masterpieces", because mindless faggots heap praise upon it without actually understanding the context of the work or any other works out there.

Nausicaa has a truckload of flaws. Characterization, panelling, pacing, art hiccups, and the abrupt ending are all part of it. Like all of Miyazaki's it's far from perfect. I could go into detail about every single one of those aspects, but for a cocksucking Koolaid-drinking retard like you I doubt it's worth the effort.

>reading nausicaa
>suddenly a truckload of dialogue about how humans are bad and nature is good out of nowhere for like 5 pages


What the FUCK is wrong with Miyazaki, why does he have such a stick up his ass

Damn nigga, thanks for the copypasta. This will be great for the Berserk threads.

I thought that was just...wait...shit

She gets radiation poisoning from the God Warrior and dies. They bury her next to her pet, which died earlier. Shit was sad.

Naruto isn't a classic. It's very popular but it's not a classic. It's like the anime equivalent of Star Wars or Harry Potter. Where as Nausicaa is akin to The Godfather or Crime and Punishment.

Literally everything by Tezuka and even Shirow is more of a classic than Nausicaa. That's right, a manga with a scene involving naked lesbian robots having an orgy is considered more of a masterpiece than Nausicaa. Let that sink in for a bit before you spew your next bout of nonsense.

Now I'm really glad I didn't pick up on that as a kid.
I think I watched this like 20 times between 6-16yo.
Fuck, that would have destroyed me.

>You are completely retarded and probably think Miyazaki movies are the best thing ever as well

Nope. I would only consider a couple of Miyazaki's films classics. The Nausicaa manga is his true magnum opus.

>I could go into detail about every single one of those aspects, but for a cocksucking Koolaid-drinking retard like you I doubt it's worth the effort.

Go ahead I'm genuinely interested.

I think you are mistaking your shit tastes for facts again, user-kun.

>The Nausicaa manga is his true magnum opus.

Take some of your own advice and then get back to me.

I like all three (although Shirow obviously trails pretty far behind Tezuka and Miyazaki) so this is a pretty terrible argument on your part.

>hot opinions: the thread

>Nope. I would only consider a couple of Miyazaki's films classics.

You're wrong; they're all classics. Because millions of people (including thousands of critics) have ardently studied and attempted to pick apart works from every conceivable angle over and over again for decades on end and have repeatedly failed to find significant shortcomings.

The collective experiences of millions of different people from every possible background all disagree with that retarded and ill thought out post. We're not debating the merits of some currently airing show but a venerated and enshrined series of masterpieces that have been vetted several million times over.

If you are going to try and take down such works you better come at it with significantly more than I would only consider a couple of "Miyazaki's films classics." and then misstating what a "classic" is.

Otherwise you just look like a faggot on the wrong side of history.

>other people's subjective opinions mean that your subjective opinion is objectively wrong
Great post.

(you)

This.

Shirow's works, specifically GitS, are considered higher masterpieces than Nausicaa. Go look at several lists of "most influential manga of all time", and I guarantee you GitS is one more of those lists than Nausicaa can even dream of. The matter of fact is that by your own definition, GitS is more of a masterpiece than Nausicaa. And according to all these super amazing critics who've spent their lives studying manga, YOU'RE the one with shit taste, user.

For starters, tell me how objective quality even makes sense - how can something be objectively good, good meaning "to be desired or approved of"?
Then, define a classic.
And then maybe we can start to have a discussion here.

>holyland
>murata opm

yeah nah

Kill yourself.

>higher masterpieces
I was about to ask you for source of that preposterous statement but then I realized you don't even have a proper grasp of the english language.

If you pit them all against each other a hierarchy appears that's hard to dismiss. I don't know if there's a term for this but maybe "victim of his own success". There's plenty of other examples of this across all artistic mediums. There's no denying that all of Miyazaki's films are good but after having made almost two dozen you can't seriously claim they are all classics especially when they share so many similar themes.

Essentially you're just being pedantic now because you've internalized some weird contrarian view on Miyazaki in a bid to differentiate yourself from others.

Classic special snowflake syndrome. As I said before and will say again: A faggot on the wrong side of history.

I can't wait to see this shitpost show up in all the Berserk, HxH, Jojo, and Re:Zero threads now.

Not him, but you're the one who can't read if you didn't even fucking see the rest of his post literally explaining his reasoning.
>inb4 but I don't like that reasoning!
Doesn't matter, he still fucking explained it and nullified any reason you'd have to ask for source.

right after you, shit mctaste

i bet you masturbate to mushishi

>There's no denying that all of Miyazaki's films are good but after having made almost two dozen you can't seriously claim they are all classics especially when they share so many similar themes.
So how does this logic jibe with your earlier claims? It's a direct contradiction, unless you want to make some sort of caveat for it. Seriously, you're just making up these bizarre rules about quality and "classics" instead of accepting that it doesn't work that way.

First, citing numerous undisclosed sources and claiming the argument of quantity is weak argumentation as it falls on subjective selection.
Second, all these lists are apparently written by "super amazing critics who've spent their lives studying manga" which is highly doubtful and exaggerated.
Shit argumentation is shit. I am neither swayed to change my stance nor does it solidly strengthen it's own case.

And apparently you avoid arguments by making strawman arguments in hopes that people would ignore your inability to argue without using nonspecific meaningless wordy bullshit like >There's no denying that all of Miyazaki's films are good but after having made almost two dozen you can't seriously claim they are all classics especially when they share so many similar themes.

Sharing many similar themes with your previous works means that those works are no longer "classics"? Shakespeare, Poe, Stephen King and many other authors would like to have a word with you. Along with all those aforementioned literary critics you spoke of.

>Essentially you're just being pedantic now because you've internalized some weird contrarian view on Miyazaki in a bid to differentiate yourself from others.

Actually all he did was copypasta your own post, so have fun dealing with your own retarded logic.

> but I don't like that reasoning!
Wow, you did it again, read the first sentence and didn't finish the post.

>citing numerous undisclosed sources and claiming the argument of quantity is weak argumentation as it falls on subjective selection.

So same as what you did here, right? >Second, all these lists are apparently written by "super amazing critics who've spent their lives studying manga" which is highly doubtful and exaggerated.

But that's what you said here, not me.

That wasn't me though.
Are you having problems follwing the flow of posts this thread?

>That wasn't me though
Then why the fuck are you criticizing him instead of criticizing the guy who first used that logic? The second guy's literally only piggybacking on it in order to showcase the absurd results it gives.

Re-read this entire comment chain. All this stemmed from was me defending myself from the claim that I probably "think all Miyazaki films are masterpieces".

I will agree that in having continued with this comment chain my argument has run off base and has now veered into subjective vs objective critique. All I was trying to say was that I disagree with the post saying I think all Miyazaki films are masterpieces although that probably has more to do with subjective than objective views (this is where "weird rules" comes into it, I do think that if someone has several great works and they all fall within a similar medium and exhibit similar themes then they can't all be classics, but you're right that's a personal and subjective view and not an objective one).

Regardless, instead of me continuing to argue myself into a corner through semantics I would like to see the original post that sparked this comment chain:

Actually put forth further development into his claims that Nausicaa has a truckload of flaws. Which is what this thread is really about.

>That wasn't me though.

That's the argument you're supporting dumbass, whether it's by you or not is irrelevant.

>Are you having problems follwing the flow of posts this thread?

I could ask you the same thing.

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Don't know if enough people have even read that to claim that it's overrated.

>I made a fucking retarded multi-paragraph post, but stop talking about that and focus on this other thing!

Did you get into manga and Sup Forums yesterday? It's very popular and won various awards.

But no one important considers Re:Zero a masterpiece.

>Nausicaa dies in the movie.
>They bury her next to her pet, which died earlier.

Neither of these are in the movie. That's not a grave at the end, it's just fallen supplies.

Doesn't make it any less useful for baiting.

No I made a single post dismissing a stupid claim and then got sucked into making 10 replies that got further and further away from the original topic of the thread.

Meanwhile the idiot that I'm arguing with gets away with never having to argue his original position because he's drawn me into a stupid side argument about the semantics of what defines a classic.

The thread isn't about that it's about whether the Nausicaa manga is overrated or not. Now I want to see his arguments so we can continue because otherwise this IS retarded and I will willingly admit that.

>he's drawn me
No, he hasn't. I'm , the one you responded to with the dumbass post that started this for real, and as was obvious, I am not the guy who made the claim that Nausicaa had a buttload of flaws. No one drew you into anything, you just made a stupid statement of your own accord, then an unrelated person told you it was stupid, and you tried to defend it with an even dumber and more obnoxious rant that brought a bunch of people down on your head.

>Meanwhile the idiot that I'm arguing with gets away with never having to argue his original position because he's drawn me into a stupid side argument

You decided to argue with him (using a very poor strawman) and you're the one who calls him an idiot? Bait threads must be hell for you if you get suckered that easily.

You what? It's been read by tons of people. In fact, you just made me check, and it's been read by more people than Nausicaa on both MU and MAL.

I get the feeling that you've never been in an argument on Sup Forums before or something, because like says, almost every single thread would be hell if you approached it with this attitude.

I'll be the first to admit that I got tricked (although I will note you also responded to several posters that were NOT me) but lets put that aside and return the discussion to Nausicaa. Expound more on these so called flaws and I will respond.

>tricked
No one fucking tricked you. Holy shit, what is with your persecution complex?

You wouldn't happen to be the same /r9k/ retard who complained earlier about being forced to use emoticons because he was tricked, would you?

Lets establish something here for a second. I'm sure you've been on here for several years as have I. When in all that time have you seen someone say "Oh were you that user from X" and the other user says "Oh why yes of course I was".

Because I've seen it happen less than 10 times but not a day goes by that I don't see at least 5 of these claims and all of them wrong.

This is the type of surface level clutter that is killing imageboard discussion.

There's literally thousands of interactions that happen on here every single day and they're all anonymous I'm sick and tired of people trying to connect them together in some cute way. All it ever amounts to is "No, that wasn't me" and 2 more replies get added to the bump limit.

Fuck off.

You could have just said "no, ur a delusional faget", and then left and you would have probably left a better impression.

Instead you have to type a paragraph's worth of text describing your logic as if we actually give a fuck. Doing this makes you look incredibly asspained and only encourages more people to shitpost you, like what happened here And FYI, it actually is pretty easy to notice someone's identity based on the material of their posts. I have no idea who that other user is accusing you of being, but there are plenty of anons here like the Famicom or Aniplex guy that pop in every thread with a distinct posting style that immediately tells you who they are.

Keep posting like that and the same will happen to you.

>this thread

>actually falling for your own copypasta

I have seen some sad shit on Sup Forums but hot damn this takes the cake.

Anything I don't like. Which is everything.

That's counterintuitive to the whole point of anonymous posting which is about the culling of identities in order to achieve a purer level of discussion.

It's also telling about how much critique in this thread focuses on the length of my posts instead of their content. Imageboards are truly going the way of all other online interaction: 140 characters or less. Maybe in a few years time we'll just reply to each with Emoji's and nothing else. It might actually be a step up from the current level of discussion on Sup Forums.

>two posts added to the bump limit of a thread that isn't going anywhere
>How dare you, this imageboard is meant for real discussion only!
Jesus Christ, you nigger. It was even added onto the end of another post, so it didn't add a single fucking thing to the bump limit except for your post complaining about it.

Do you even know how to use that word son?

>It's also telling about how much critique in this thread focuses on the length of my posts instead of their content.

Because your posts said a whole lot of nothing despite their length. Knowing how to make your messages concise and to the point is a skill in life, especially in the professional world, not just on this Mongolian puppet show board.

> Imageboards are truly going the way of all other online interaction: 140 characters or less
Bullshit. Plenty of faggots like yourself love to inflate their incredibly simple comments into long waffling things full of rhetoric and pointless detail. If your entire damn point can be summarized in in a sentence, then writing five phrased for effect rather than information is pointless.

It's just stupid clutter that uglies up threads. Take any good thread and pepper it with people asking "Hey are you that user" and other people responding with "No" and it instantly gets worse. It also has huge derail potential like right now.

In fact I think it should be banneable and classified as trolling simply because the chance of it ever being the user in question is so incredibly low that it can only be described as a spam post that has a high chance of generating a second spam post.

Take it to twitter faggots. I'm still waiting on one of you to actually prove me wrong about Nausicaa. All this thread has shown is that I have successfully defended Miyazaki and only got tricked ONCE in the process.

>It's just stupid clutter that uglies up threads. Take any good thread and pepper it with people asking "Hey are you that user" and other people responding with "No" and it instantly gets worse.
Nigger, what? I've never seen a thread "peppered" with those in my life, and I doubt you have either. It's two posts of "unnecessary clutter" that are no more unnecessary or inane than 90% of posts to begin with.
> It also has huge derail potential like right now.
Again, this thread was going nowhere long before the "was this you" stuff and was derailed the instant you made that post about classics and shit.
>I don't like people mentioning other threads so it should be considered trolling and banned
What the fuck.

> All this thread has shown is that I have successfully defended Miyazaki and only got tricked ONCE in the process.
I still don't fucking know how you were "tricked" into repeatedly saying and defending stupid things that no one prompted you to say.

> Take it to twitter faggots
Take your longwinded rhetoric to your blog.

Sup Forums is one of the places of the internet who shouldn't really even dare to say something is overrated with its general outrageously low level of manga knowledge.

But to put that aside for a second, let's say that Nausicaa I overrated.
Does that somewhat changes, for the better or worse, its intrinsic value, contents and historical significance?
If in a decade or so people started calling Shakespeare or Homer "overrated", does that somewhat lessen their importance in literature and their respective achievements?
And even if it is overrated, should I like it less or more because of it?
I read anything, from Egawa to Kubo, I enjoy manga for what they are and what they try to do, even if they're not special snowflake acclaimed masterpieces, what matters is that I personally like them, period, I don't like many manga that are considered classics, I don't deny their qualities and achievements, I simply don't like what they are about and their style, the important thing is how much they resonate with you, just like every piece of art and media.
Some people don't like Joyce, some others don't like Miyazaki, should I change my opinion of an author because others didn't like it as much as I did, or because too many or too few people like what I like?
For a board that complains about normies and sheep mentality you've sure fallen low if you rely on such an argument to get a reaction out of people, you don't critically evaluate something based on the number of people who like, dislike or like it too much, that's the salesman approach and it's the worst possible approach to true critical thinking, especially when it comes to art.

tl;dr: OP is a fag.

I think you're making way too much out of this. All overrated means is "a bunch of people say this work is of ____ quality, and I say it's of a lower quality than that." It's like if someone said "this manga is not that good" and you responded with "Wow, great, why should I care? I'm not going to change my opinion of it because of that." No one's making a critical evaluation based on how many people like it, they are merely stating their own evaluation in comparison to the evaluation of others.

>normies
Lurk more. On Sup Forums, not /r9k/ or Sup Forums.

I don't doubt you are serious with Monster. It really is a childish minded series for the most part.

>not owning Nausicaä of the Valley of Wind: Deluxe Edition Box Set™

dude the ending has several points that are totally indefensible.

One of them being how the manga just declares that the princess character is absolved of her crimes, including genociding an entire town.
some character literally just declares "your soul has been redeemed by your bloodshed" then the next few pages show her smiling angelically while little kids frolic around her and we're somehow supposed to take that she's a good person now who has made amends for her horrific acts of evil.

Also the fact is that Nausicaa dooms humanity to extinction by poisonous gas forests and turns her back on the technology that could save them.

I've written way longer posts about this in the past and the ending is appalling.

The ending of Nausicaa was complete bullshit.

I don't just mean "bullshit" as in it was vaguely bad, I mean it did not make sense and was completely flawed in terms of morals and justice.

Nausicaa doomed every person on planet earth to perish purely because of an irrational biase and hatred towards people of the past. THE SAME PEOPLE WHO FUCKING WELL ENGINEERED THE FOREST AND INSECTS SHE'S SO FUCKING WET FOR.
Christ It's just so utterly hypocritical and illogical I can't help but become angered. You worship the forest and the insects as this beautiful system that deserves respect, and then when you find out that scientists of the past engineered those very animals in order to clean up the polluted world, and yet you still think they are the MOST EVIL, UNTRUSTWORTHY FORCEin hte world and that MURDER (yes, remember when she came across that nursery full of old-world people in stasis and ordered the God child to destroy it) Every singel one of them rather than accept their medical knowledge.

Because, oh yeah, that's right EVERY HUMAN SOCIETY IN THE WORLD IS SLOWLY DYING OUT FROM HARDENING DISEASE and other forest-poison related ailments apart from the forest people and even they are going to die out when the forest finishes purifying the world because guess what?
NO CURRENTLY LIVING HUMAN BEING CAN BREATH CLEAN AIR. Every human on the planet has become acclimatised and dependant on residual forest poisons and they die when they breath air which is actually clean.

And what does nausicaa do when she is made fully aware of ALL of these things?

She still decides to blow-up the old-world people. Why? Because of her irrational, emotional prejudice against the old world. She thinks it would be better to destroy the tomb, reomve all possibility of recovering old world technology, so that no one can use it for war ever again and have all of humanity go extinct from either spreading forest posions or clean air than to use old-world technology to avoid certain extinction withthe possibility that at some point evil people might misuse it.

I just how in the fuck can she possibly rationalise that to herself? "Hey, the human race is probably going to die out but at least no one will be able to misuse old-world technology now :D"

The guardian of the tomb asks her the exact same thing and you know what she says? It's something like: "We've been going extinct our whole lives. If humans are not meant to live on this planet then so be it"

?!?!?
Seriously what the hell. How can anyone who is not a completely off-the-fucking wall eco-terrorist agree with this horse shit?

I mean the Nausicaa as a manga started going downhill since around volume 3-4 when the giant mutant mold interrupted the war but I never expected it to end so terribly.

I can't believe a thread built on the very definition of baiting managed to muster so much assblasting and convoluted justification. Sup Forums truly is a sight to behold.

Oh yeah and that was another thing that was morally flawed about the ending of Nausicaa, that scene where Yuda sacrifices himself to keep the peace then says to Kushana something like
"the path of bloodshed has cleansed you"

What. WHAT.

Oh do go on Master Yuda, how is it exactly that killing every man, woman and child in the city of Pejitei makes you a better person?


and then just after Yuda dies that kid comes along and says that Kushana is like a gentle, injured bird.
The same fucking question really.

Kushana is not kind, gentle, morally-upstanding, good person. She's every god damn bit as evil as her brothers and father. She's willing to murder countless innocents to get the throne.

She is emphatically not a gentle, injured bird who has been cleansed by killing people.