Fate

Does Nasu hate Rin and Rin/Shirou?

>he could have made the protagonist of FGO, the son/daughter of Rin and Shirou, instead there's no Fuyuki Fire or Shirou Emiya in that timeline
>Rin will appear as Ishtar and will go after Gilgamesh's dick (his my room lines are telling the slut to fuck off)
>Garden of Avalon connects to Fate route events and FGO ones. FGO Vanilla Saber keeps Shirou's lion plush and sleeps with it
>There's mentions of a Saber in Avalon in Merlin's message in Camelot
>Sakura is going to be a pure waifu character and her CE is matching Shirou's CE
>Saber's swimsuit is based on Shirou's justice jacket

Why the bias against Rin?

About damn time he realized his main characters are shit.

Because Shirou and Sakura are the canon couple. Heaven's Feel is the final route because the first two prepare you for it.

Every character screams at Shirou that he's wrong, in the first route Saber supports him and he goes full retard. In the second route Rin doesn't support his ideal but doesn't demand that he stops being retarded, so he goes full retard. The entire VN is about Shirou being wrong but being too stubborn to realize that living like a machine is not living.


Third and final route, Shirou abandons his ideal finally and even kills Saber, the representation of his ideal and the heroine that supported it. He then goes on to live his life, a fairly ordinary one which is what he and Sakura always wanted(why do you think they enjoy doing things so mundane like cooking or just being at home? Because they're both broken people that deep down just want peace).

Even fucking Urobutcher said that what Shirou/Saber and Shirou/Rin have is not love and Shirou/Sakura is the only couple that truly represents love, Nasu agreed.

Wormslut Fanboy

This is exactly the reason people dislike Heaven's Feel, the idea that is superior to the other routes, because it represents Shirou being an adult or some such.

You realize Garden of Avalon and FGO is connecting everything to Fate route?

>FGO

AHAHAHAHAH

Well, Nasu is writing the chapters and said everything is canon, so you can laugh as much as you want.

It's the main Nasuverse work right now. Garden of Avalon was prelude to it, which has Saber of FATE route in it. Mentioned again in Camelot chapter as the 'King of Avalon'. Waver in Accel Zero event already took down the Grail with Rin and when he talks about her never says she's in a relationship with a ginger Japanese guy who also helped them (meaning it's Fate route). Vanilla Saber summon has the lion stuffed toy.

>Even fucking Urobutcher said that what Shirou/Saber and Shirou/Rin have is not love and Shirou/Sakura is the only couple that truly represents love, Nasu agreed.

I would not use Butcher as an example, because his idea of love was men "forgiving the dark sides of women" and didn't acknowledge that both Shirou and Sakura were both flawed people. The guy's talk about the character relationships made him sound more than a little gay.

Plus the guy wanted a five year old to torture the guy who she cared about as if he were her real uncle until Nasu stopped him, and his dream is for Dark Sakura to rule hell with Spawn. I wish I made this up, but this guy is that edgy.

well FGO is shit so Rin and Shirou don't even need that. Only weak character like Sakura need spin off

The hints are that GO Saber might actually be Archer's Saber.

Reminder that Sakura stole Illya's route.

Are you forgetting that UBW got the most thorough anime adaptation out of any of the routes, and Nasu personally wrote an epilogue that said they'd live happily ever after?

I feel like you're trying to stir up a shitty waifu war, especially with your blind speculation that Rin will go after Gil's dick.

Nasu said that out of the three heroines in FSN, Rin was his favorite.

>never says she's in a relationship with a ginger Japanese guy who also helped them (meaning it's Fate route)

Quite the jump in conclusions. That seems very much ambiguous, which is something Nasu loves doing.

You're projecting your own preferences onto things.

Don't worry, Illya got 3 seasons of her own show and her beloved Onii-chan

Urobuchi calls Rin the true heroine of the VN.

> think the true heroine of Fate/stay night is Rin. In the Rin route, an equal relationship with a woman who's become stronger than men is depicted. Rin and Shirou mend each other's weaknesses with their own unique strengths, and I think it makes for a very nice relationship.

No he didn't

He clearly said Illya was his favorite and Rin was a mistake

She also gets to make out with herself and another grail.

>he could have made the protagonist of FGO, the son/daughter of Rin and Shirou, instead there's no Fuyuki Fire or Shirou Emiya in that timeline
Rin and Shirou maybe get together in 2004. F/GO takes place in 2016. That would mean, if Shirou knocked up Rin very first thing as part of their relationship, the protagonist would be at best 12 years old, when they are clearly a full adult.
Wildly out of place and out of character.

Again, like I told the other guy when I disagreed about Butcher being pro-Sakura (Sakurafag here). You should take Butcher's words with a grain of salt, his view on love and relationships is kind of twisted.

Illiya is super lucky, she gets to be around people who love on her and she is the star

The fact that the male protagonist has been stated to be designed around as looking like a genderbent version of Rin just goes to show Nasu and Takeuchi like the character.

I mean shit, she was the female protagonist of Capsule Monsters too.

I take everything that man writes with a grain of salt, especially in terms of relationships, I was just pointing that Butcher not liking Shirou and Rin is bull.

I mean there's plenty of other bull in that post, but I don't want to dissect it all and reach the character limit.

>Capsule Monsters
As in Pre-Pokemon Capumon?

Capsule Monsters was a game added in the Vita version of FHA. Featured two campaigns with a young Shirou and Rin using servants as pseudo Pokemon.

Had a wacky story.

You had me going there for a second. I was about to go down the trivia foxhole

>go after Gilgamesh's dick
Have you ever read the epic of Gilgamesh? She'll go after everyone's dick, just like Rin does.

>what if we took a serious VN
I'm too lazy to post the whole thing.

Rin has only really ever gone after one dick. She's gone after several clits though.

I dunno, Illiya is pretty fun for a magical girl's anime. It's like a little bit of Fate Stay with some Carnival Phantasm

Does Shirou compare well to Subaru?

He's a sword, not a car.

>Sakura will never get her own show

>Well, Nasu is writing the chapters
He writes some of them, like 2 or 3.

Sword autist vs retard
You decide

>the inevitable Black Blossom

See, this here is pretty important. People try to make the argument that Nasu hates Sakura, but the guy is just a goof.

He has thus boner about making her a final boss (his blurb about the girl who can corrode the environment in the UBW Q&A, and Takeuchi saying Sakura's powers are fit for a final boss cement it), when he knows the character herself would rather be by Shirou's side kicking ass as a partner (damn you Hiroyama, you had to open old wounds in Prisma).

It's even why we got that G-Sakura storyline for Capsule Servant, where Sakura was (again) made into an experiment by her father's autism. Nasu just has a very black sense of humor for a chuuni guy. It's never been him hating her. He does it to everyone at some point.

Nasu, I hope you are writing up some good stuff for the HF movie, at the very least, Sakura meeting Dilo in detail please.

He was originally going to write 2, but the urge to write anything other than the Tsukihime Remake took him and he's done 3 already and is definitely doing the 4th. He also did two of the major events I believe (Garden of Order and Chateau d'If).

Moshi moshi

I kinda agree with this if I'm forced with a gun to pick one and only one canon route. Heaven's Feel is also the best fit thematically from F/Z.

Feels like both in Fate and UBW Shirou went full retard and keeps getting rewarded by plotarmor and hax powers to go on being retarded.

However arguing amongst ourselves is futile, you can believe whatever you want, whether it's a multiverse with 3 branching routes, or even a multiverse with 6 branching routes counting the Realta Nua versions. Noone is arguing whether Shirou went to help Sakura or Shirou went to finish his daily routine first (your first, fairly inconsequential branching option in the game). For me personally the best ending is the Tiger Dojo ending in UBW where Shirou got murdered by Archer because Archer is so goddamn right and it serves that retarded ginger right. Remember the Tiger Dojo ending is just as canon as the true ending of each route

Archer is not right. That's the point. The fact that you don't understand that means UBW flew over your head.

Well my Tiger Dojo ending is just as canon as UBW true ending and there's nothing you can do about it

Sure, but Archer is not right.

If you read UBW, and that's what you took away from it, you didn't understand it.

Shirou is not 'retarded'. He sees, through the memories Archer gives him, all the struggles he may go up against when following a path of being a hero, and accepts them all, because in the end, they're worth it.

Archer grew jaded from his past and his own beliefs, and looked back at himself as thinking it was all bluster and naivete. Seeing Shirou in his prime take it all in, and still decide to move forward, made him reevaluate himself, rather than screeching at Shirou that he's wrong.

I mean look at the entire narrative surrounding the Archer fight. There isn't a single choice to be had. There are no bad ends, no options for you, the player, to intervene, and capitulate to what Archer is saying.

Shirou has only one path he is willing to take there, and he has no regrets in it.

Archer is right in how it will end for Shirou. His ideal is incompatible with reality. Persisting in spite of that, the best he can do is shrug and accept the results. The only thing Archer is wrong about is that, he didn't want to accept the results.

Shirou cannot save everyone, but wanting to save everyone isn't wrong, and his actions led to many lives being saved. The results are shown clearly by the end of the route, where Shirou, proving himself to be a hero, thwarts Gilgamesh's plans and saves the city.

The recent addendum Nasu wrote for UBW also clarifies that Shirou's end isn't the same as Archer's.

He goes past him.

We don't know where UBW Shirou ends. He may die a few steps after walking over that sand dune, or he may go on to live a long life balancing being a hero, and having a family with Rin, but the important take away, is that his 'fate', is left unwritten.

>but the important take away, is that his 'fate', is left unwritten.
>fate
B R A V O N A S U

But Rin loves Archer more than Shirou.

thats wrong tho

How so?

In UBW, she always picks Shirou's side, and treats Archer like he's about to fucking betray her.

Then he does.

>Sure, but Archer is not right.
Sure but neither is Shirou. Archer is less wrong than Shirou

But Shirou is right. It's not wrong to want to help people. He likely can't save everyone, but he will do his best, because that's what a hero does.

There's nothing really wrong about Shirou's conclusion in UBW. It's very sound.

Bear in mind, I'm not speaking ill of the choices made in the other routes. Those Shirous more often than not had solid reasoning for their conclusions as well.

But in terms of UBW, there is very little ground for Archer being right in the end.

>It's not wrong to want to help people.
True

>He likely can't save everyone, but he will do his best, because that's what a hero does.

This would be fine, but that's now what he thinks. He keep throwing tantrum about muh ideal without a single hint of nuance. According to his own unnatainable ideal he's a hypocrite because he should've donated all his money and mansion to feed starving people in Africa

She runs straight to Archer after his fight with Shirou and offers to heal him. Then she does this again at the very end. She has way more chemistry with Archer than with Shirou and she doesn't always agree with Archer because she wants to save him. She wants to save Archer, not Shirou. Shirou just reminds her of Archer.

>This would be fine, but that's now what he thinks

No, that is what he thinks.

Shirou knows he can't save everyone, but he will do his best.

And regarding your second point, he spends most of his life in the middle east fighting terrorists as a result of his decisions. His actions aren't all talk. I mean that's the very reason there's plot after the Archer fight. He reaches a mental conclusion, but he needs to see it through by dealing with a real threat.

All this is both in the VN and the anime.

Who fucking cares? we UBW patricians got our happily ever after with great animation and music, let the plebs have their side material and mobile games (RLFMAO)

Nah, you're misremembering things. She calls out for shirou first. She says she would heal Archer, but remember, he was mortally wounded, while Shirou came out the victor.

In the end, Rin doesn't even particularly spend a lot of time with Archer in UBW. Even before the betrayal she's reluctant to use him because she finds him suspicious.

Most of her frustration comes from the fact that he's still Shirou in the end.

Also, in terms of the mansion, I'm pretty sure until Shirou is of age, Taiga's family is noted to be handling all the technical stuff involving housing and money for him.

Archer is "wrong" because he still follows his ideal even if he doesn't believe in it. In UBW Shirou realizes that even if his ideal is flawed and borrowed he will believe in it because that's who he is, he will become a fake that is better than the original.

>he spends most of his life in the middle east fighting terrorists as a result of his decisions

That's an ebin conclusion befitting a hero complex ginger retard with 3 working brain cells like Shirou. If you truly want to do the best good in the world, then anything sans donating raw money to alleviate hunger and save lives in Africa is not the best use of your resources. Why bother fighting terrorist, risking collateral damage and turning more innocent civilian into terrorist while $25 can feed a village in Africa.

Because that would make for a boring story. This is a franchise about magic and heroes and beamspam, not charitable contributions.

Because Shirou actually has capabilities far beyond that of a normal human, that allows him to take on threats en masse. He can create temporary swords that can be pinpoint used to kill people. He is using his strengths far better than trying to luck himself into substantial money and reworking the world that way.

Yeah, Rin was closer to Archer in the other routes, where Rin relies more on him and was a bit closer than in UBW.

Providing raw resources doesn't necessarily lead to change, either. Archer was known for attacking corrupt political figures- this is why he was feared by various governments.

>but remember, he was mortally wounded
No, he wasn't. Even Shirou knew you can't kill a servant with a wound he inflicted. His victory was merely symbolic.
>In the end, Rin doesn't even particularly spend a lot of time with Archer in UBW.
She spends the whole route dreaming his dreams. That's the whole reason why she interacts with Shirou and takes him out on the date.
>Most of her frustration comes from the fact that he's still Shirou in the end.
They stress the fact that Shirou and EMIYA are not the same person.

I think it would fit UBW ending really well if Shirou learns from his ordeal, ends up becoming a Machiavellian Japanese company Zaibatsu overlord, just to donate 99% of his money to charity anonymously. It goes well with the theme "sometimes you need to sacrifice someone, but this is for the greater good."

And then it turns out the organization he donated to was a scam

Well any philanthropist with half a brain would manage their own charity like Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Or you can be an anonymous board member and donor while controlling everything behind the scene. Anyway we're going off on too much of a tangent here.

Archer was nearly out of mana. He was on his death bed. Shirou wasn't.

Shirou and Rin's relationship starts to develop before she even has a single dream regarding Archer. You are misremembering things. Her first one doesn't happen until they decide to make a pact and become allies.

Rin specifically talks, after Gil 'killed' him, that she's mad because even if Archer was an asshole, he was still Shirou at his core.

You are allowing interactions in other routes and fanon to cloud what really happens in UBW. Throughout most of the story, they are at complete odds, and don't even interact.

>No, he wasn't
He disappeared right after that bro

>She spends the whole route dreaming his dreams. That's the whole reason why she interacts with Shirou and takes him out on the date.
Nice speedreading

I'm still amazed how obnoxious Rinfags got following UBW anime.

Where they want to be the canon ending now with special London follow up story all about Shirou and Rin, and they feel like Nasu hates them now because Nasu didn't make the FGO main characters into Rin and Shirou's perfect strong self insert little children in order to cement them even more as canon so they can attempt to gloat. Its always either thinking Nasu hates them and they were screwed over, or "Haha, we're the real shit, other girls a shit".

If they aren't being catered to specially now, like Saber once was, then its somehow wrong.

>Because Shirou actually has capabilities far beyond that of a normal human, that allows him to take on threats en masse. He can create temporary swords that can be pinpoint used to kill people. He is using his strengths far better than trying to luck himself into substantial money and reworking the world that way.

Or you know, he can live off being a magician like Penn Jillette/Criss Angel and rake in a lot of surefire dosh for charity. Let's just agree that Shirou is not the brightest of the bulb to carry on his ideal

Only morons and shitposters talk about things like a, "canon ending" in Fate.

...

Shirou's ability is literally to make swords, and if he was to exploit his powers to such a great degree, the Association would be on his ass. I mean in FHA, there was a talk about how Shirou couldn't risk selling his projections for fear of him getting sealed.

No really, given his options, using his magical ability to create pointy killing things and use them to become a mercenary, was actually fairly logical.

>ambiguous
>Garden of Avalon which is the prologue to FGO has Continuation of the Dream ending and mentions of Saber having an amazing encounter to have her reject the Holy Grail

user...

Rinfags were always obnoxious. From day 1, they were spamming and forcing memes about the other girls being sluts.

Movies are prettier anyway.

There are several Sabers.

Fate route Saber is in Avalon (probably Grand Saber). And summonable Saber is likely Emiya's because there's something between them. There's also Lancer Arturia who must be from FGO timeline who never met Shirou.

Yeah, that easily could be the Archer route, which is described as basically Fate without the romance.

>I feel like you're trying to stir up a shitty waifu war, especially with your blind speculation that Rin will go after Gil's dick.

Rin is possessed by Ishtar and Gil's my room lines is already telling her to get the fuck out. Ishtar's target is Gilgamesh's dick since the beginning. She'll also like (you).

Yeah because there aren't memes about Rin pleasing old men for money, right?

Get off your fucking high horse.

>Yeah, that easily could be the Archer route, which is described as basically Fate without the romance

What the fuck are you babbling about please elaborate

...

Unlimited Blade Works BD set II: Q: What was the Fifth Grail War that Heroic Spirit Emiya experienced in his lifetime like? Was the Archer summoned there also Emiya?
Nasu: It was a world where the conditions at the beginning of the war were mostly the same, but something was missing. Shirou summoned Saber and fought until the end, didn't save Saber's heart but understood her, and they destroyed the grail together and parted... that's the image I have.
Takeuchi: Ahh, so something like a Fate route Good End we didn't make in the game?!
Nasu: Yeah, probably. After that, it is believed he cooperates with Rin who survived, and heads to London.

Yeah, basically Archer's route was Fate without the whole fucking King Athur stint.

It also gave us the greatest , most fiscally irresponsible Heroic Spirit of all!

Archer's route Saber was never saved. That's why Archer is salty in general. She could be the summon Saber though. See The Saber that was saved is in Avalon and the reason why Merlin gave a shit about the world, sending his familiar to help it. He was going to waste his time in breaking up to give her a happy ending if that hadn't happened. Camelot chapter references her too.

Sorry but HF and UBW are pretty irrelevant to Type Moon World building now.

He never said it was without the romance, retard. He simply said that he couldn't get her to give up the Holy Grail. Fate Shirou didn't either, even after their date and all that shit. What changed her happened in the basement. It also helped him to get over his issues.

And anyway, Gacha Saber and EMIYA are a couple in FGO. But there's another Saber in Avalon which Merlin referenced in FGO and GoA. That's Fate route Saber.

And there's also the Goddess Artoria who wields Rhon.

That happens to be called justified retribution. It's also not nearly as obnoxious as shit like .

He doesn't say anything about no romance, he simply couldn't save her. Did you think the 'romance' saved her? If you do, you need to re-read Fate route again.

>yfw Bedivere was basically HF Shirou but Arturia was his Saber
>yfw Agravain is a reverse Shinji

>He simply said that he couldn't get her to give up the Holy Grail

No he didn't. He clearly says they destroy the grail.

>didn't save Saber's heart
>heart

Missing that word? Romance didn't really work out, if there was any.

Archer also betrayed her and he's not a human while Shirou is.

Rin obviously has a crush on Shirou before the start but she doesn't grow attached to him until Archer appears.

Archer was a Shirou but Shirou in UBW is not him, not her Shirou.

I don't think we should be discarding other routes they're still the same characters just put into different situations.

*Sakura

Will Archer ever get a happy ending with Saber?

Would he prefer Adult Saber?

Well they don't really particularly start to interact until Archer appears.

The dreams Rin has allow her to grow closer to Shirou, but she doesn't see him as a surrogate Archer. They don't interact and grow on good enough terms for that to even make sense.

In Fate and HF, Rin and Archer are pretty amicable, but in UBW, due to issues regarding Shirou, Rin grows to distrust Archer fairly early. That's why you can't really solidly count their interactions in the other routes.