Anarcho Communism vs Anarcho Capitalism

Which is more autistic, or are they of equal SPEDness?

>muh NAP
>muh Government regulation is bad for business
>muh private police

>muh human nature can be changed to fit communism
>muh collective mindset
>muh voluntary communism

Other urls found in this thread:

lewrockwell.com/2014/09/hans-hermann-hoppe/smack-down/
theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-mutual-aid-a-factor-of-evolution
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

They're about equally retarded. It's hard to say which would be more economically and societally devastating in absolute terms.

Anarchy and communism are mutually exclusive. That right there tells which side is most retarded--even though both are.

>I can't have the thibgs I want, daddy State says so

Be free. You've only to unshackle yourselves.

Anarcho capitalism is more retarded.
It's the nigger of ideologies. No forward thinking, all that matters is the present.

Communism at least recognizes a change has to be made to the fundamentals of humans and society for their system to work.
But that change is impossible, which is what makes it retarded and leads to all the famine and atrocities.

Stupid phone didn't give me any digits...

>just unshackle yourselves and you're free!!!

This! We need an anprim society NOW!

First off, Somalia isn't anarcho capitalist, it's ""government"" is large gangs of niggers who tell people what to do, and they can't defend themselves because they 1. don't have enough guns and 2. are niggers

AnCom is way worse bro. AnCap is intellectually incorrect but AnCom's are intellectual incorrect + they are literally willing to murder their own parents because they said "nigger" in 1982. they're the most vicious, angry, hateful and admittedly "intolerant" people on the planet. they're a cancer and a scourge. they are nobody's friend. they and their ideology will not help ANYBODY. in the end their ideology will only ensure that all of humanity lives under the oppressive thumb of tyranny, but they're genuinely too stupid to understand how they are creating such a world for the elites by literally rioting against their own legal rights and constitutional protections......or maybe they do know and they just don't want to admit it publicly.

To be fair anarcho-capitalism has never been attempted by any government. Anarcho-communism was and it was as shitty as you can imagine. Just communism with another name. So my vote goes to ancom.

>>muh human nature can be changed to fit communism
the thing about this is that the way they have figured out to change human nature to fit communism is to essentially practice a form of disorganized eugenics, slaughter anyone who doesn't fit into their the proper communist box (including their own parents, siblings, friends, teachers or presumably children) until there is no more free thinking and dissent left in the genes.

really nice, bright future they've got in store for us, for sure

Forcefully imposing social norms is a good thing. It's just that the norms Ancoms try to impose are retarded and destructive.
But the fact that Ancap doesn't try to impose any at all makes it worse overall.

wrong. imposing social norms is the most evil, counterproductive, and ultimately destructive thing to society that you can do.

if someone wants to be a fag, let them be a fag bro. why do you want them to fuck women and make babies and pass on their fag genes? you haven't thought this through.

ENCOURAGING positive social behavior is the key, because right now we live in a society which DISCOURAGES it and ENCOURAGES degeneracy. that is the tragedy and sickness of our time. but fascism is just a trip down an almost equally bad road :(

admittedly not 100% AS bad as communism or forced degeneracy (which is what the left wing is all about) but ALMOST as bad.

and it goes for everything. if you're a fag, a commie, a loser, a drug addict. whatever you are. why FORCE someone to act normal and breed and make babies? you're only telling the fuck ups to breed. and you're also going to weed out a lot of free thinkers and intelligent people that way. you are genetically fucking your gene pool in your society over for the future. just look at germany today, that's what happened to them. hitler murdered off all of the free thinkers and dissidents and now they are all pussies that cannot stand up for themselves or think for themselves outside of what their government and media tells them :(

Anarcho-tistic.

How is it evil counterproductive or destructive when it's literally the thing that defines a society?

Not replying to the spergy strawmen.

>spergy strawman
>literally the giant, long term, defining problem with the concept of "fascism" or "anarcho communism" or any system where certain behaviors are artificially removed by a human factor.
you're right, you shouldn't reply to it, because there is no reply.

>Anarchy attempted by a government

>couldn't answer the question
>implied fascists force degenerates to remain in the society and breed

Ancaps have actual plans. All they want is to extend what has worked in the market to more things.

Ancoms refuse to discuss how their ideas would actually work. All they have is economic fallacies to complain about.

yeah dude it DOES answer you're question you just aren't understanding it man.
it ruins your society in the long term, yeah, you weed out the strongest and the most individualistic and the ones you are left with are still just as degenerate, but they've gone underground with their degeneracy. now they're fucking opposite sex people and making babies, but they still have the "degeneracy gene" inside of them.
it's not a complicated concept, nazi brains just shut down when they hear it because they don't want to face it.

so yeah, it ruins your society in the long term, leaves you with weak, mindless slaves. it's the same problem with Anarcho Communism or any of these "mass genocide / mass slaughter / social engineering" programs.

natural selection is the greatest arbiter the earth has ever seen of who should continue to live and who should not. just let it run its course. stop welfare, stop free healthcare. do it slowly over decades so your system doesn't fall apart, and make sure you keep your country racially homogenous, and only let the white landowning males vote, and you're all good.

that's how america lived and thrived for 200 fucking years until the big government voters like yourself started fucking it up (thanks women).

>Ancoms refuse to discuss how their ideas would actually work. All they have is economic fallacies to complain about.
this is the thing. they KNOW their policies don't work. it's just a PR attempt, mostly. they KNOW that their ideology is going to require mass slaughter of literally (and i do mean literally) billions of people to weed out "unnatural communists" from the gene pool. and they know that eventually big government will be required to "keep an order" or some sort. they just don't want to admit it because then they get associated with stalin and mao. they're trying to do a PR rebranding, saying "yeah this is gonna be totally stateless and we're all gonna be free"

the smart ones, the leaders, and the organizers know this anyhow. as well as the big money spenders like soros and many others who fund them and their vaguely related and aligned fellow traveler groups like BLM.

yeah ok, if you believe that you're believing the stranger in the van with the free candy. and sadly many of these tards genuinely have fallen for the meme.

Have you read Hoppe's "A Realistic Libertarianism" yet?
lewrockwell.com/2014/09/hans-hermann-hoppe/smack-down/

Ancom is fully retarded.

Ancap is actually feasible, but probably impossible unless a highly homogeneous and religious culture implements it (otherwise you will end up with Bioshock).

We're primitive enough already.

Anarcho-capitalism is an oxymoron. Anarchy means the absence of hierarchy, whereas capitalism needs the hierarchy of the capitalist and workers to function, not to mention that capitalism also relies on the state to enforce property rights.

>extend what has worked in the market

Rockefeller had his monopoly dismantled by the US, no less! And with good fucking reason.
The very first lesson of economics while learning supply and demand curves is that the market, when left unregulated, brings prejudice to society's well being when it results on monopolies/cartels.
Both ancaps and die hard communists are fucking wrong.

>also on a side note:
On mainstream politics, the usual self-proclaimed economic liberal faggots always end up loosing corporate taxes while at the same time taxing more the middle class, either directly or indirectly (this faggotry!).

When ancaps say "anarchy" they mean "no ruler," not "no leader." And you don't need the state to enforce property rights. There are other strategies. Read the literature.

can i ask you a serious question dude? is a wolf pack "government" then? they have hierarchy.

in africa, is there "government" because a lion eats a gazelle? that's hierarchy.

an "absence of hierarchy" can only actually be maintained BY a government because it's SO unnatural.

that's why people say "it's an oxymoron", can you understand that??

An-caps don't realise that they need a state to force the commies into the helicopters

couldnt both systems exist at the same time with people choosing whatever economic system they want to live under if there was no government enforcing policies one way or the other?

couldnt you even use both at the same time depending on your interests, e.g. work for a privately owned cleaning service and subscribe to a privately owned home insurance company but shop at a communally owned food store and donate to a communally owned public park because that fits your needs?

and you could also be whatever other type of anarcho-whatever, e.g. go start a commune in the woods with your anarcho-primitivist mates, because there's no government saying you need to pay taxes and register an address or whatever stops people doing that right now in some countries, while people who don't want to live in a bush simply don't

>Anarcho Communism vs Anarcho Capitalism

Anarcho Communism is an Oxymoron
Anarcho Capitalism is another Oxymoron

Ancap is a bad idea but a coherent one that actually can be imagined as existing. Anarchy in any real practical sense is effectively ancap because when people are left to their own devices and the nap holds true they will naturally just trade and make deals and engage in capitalist activity, the thing is, the nap can never exist outside of the hypothetical. Either government will coerce tax from you or warlords will coerce protection from you and that's just life and the nature of force. Unless technology makes force obsolete in the far future ancap societies will collapse when the first two people who want to violate the nap form a gang. They do exist before they collapse though

Ancom is literally brain dead " no government but also all property is collectively owned lmao" is so retarded it's absurd. It can't even exist and then fail because its just a dissonant idea.

or maybe i should say are those things "capitalism" rather than government. either way, don't get hung up on the terms, the concept is clear. do you see that distinction? can you understand concept and see where this ideology falls flat?? and this is just a couple of examples.

i mean the point is that in an "anarchic" state, hierarchy inherently exists and it's more brutal and well defined than the hierarchy we have in western capitalism so what you're going to accomplish with this is the opposite of what you want.
that's why people say it's an oxymoron.

Ancom is worst, because at least ancap has answers forcertain important questions, even if they're bad ones.

Terms are used wrong a lot in the West. Communism is anarchic. What many call communism (example: ussr) is socialism.

well at least we tried the red one in various absolute forms

Did you type out all this strawman intending for me to reply?

Ancom is a nigger jew ideology. Ancaps all have huge dicks and are drowing in pussy.

no i do not expect you to have any sort of reply because it isn't one. it's just a statement of clear and obvious logical fact. but you're welcome to try if you desire :(

Ancap is wonderful if you could actually get it going again. The original colonies where pretty much ancap.

Obviously they had laws enforced by gov but for the most part you owned what you wanted, you said what you wanted, and you did what you wanted.

Nope
I don't agree with Hoppe beyond his views about democracy and governments needing to have a stake in their country's long-term prosperity.

Somalia is in the state that it's in due to a failed socialist government in the 1970's.

The same goes with Eithopia. The great famine of the 80's was because of a failed socialist/communist government called "The Derg" which was back (partly) by the Soviet Union.

So when people say that libertarianism is like Somalia, I laugh. It's the end result of what happens when leftist socialist policies ultimately collapse and fail.

ironic communism

But claiming I want to do things I don't want to do isn't logical fact.
You seem confused.
How come you couldn't answer my question before about norms defining society?

>Obviously they had laws enforced by gov
sheriff enforcing God's law.
no fat faggot police force full of women and spics stealing your cars cause you didn't pay the state.
we have robin hood shit going on

for you

It is one thing for a group of people to get together and agree to invest certain powers in someone, and another thing for somebody to have power over other people without their consent. And the wealthy capitalist certainly has power over the laborers.

To be honest, it seems like you're the one with a loose grip on terms. All I'm saying is that anarchy is the absence of hierarchy, of nobody having power over somebody without their consent, while capitalism relies on some people having far greater power(wealth in this case) than others regardless of their consent.

>muh Government regulation is bad for business

whats with all these absolute statements? thats not the meaning of it. as free as possible is the goal of libertarians

OK THIS IS WHY I MADE LIKE 10 POSTS, I KNEW YOU WERE GOING TO GET HUNG UP ON TERMS AND JUST TOTALLY IGNORE THE POINT, THAT'S WHAT YOU GUYS DO
>All I'm saying is that anarchy is the absence of hierarchy
NO IT'S NOT
lions eat gazelles. is africa not in anarchy?
wolves have alpha males, as do so many animals. do they not live in anarchy?
what you are saying is the PATENT AND EXACT OPPOSITE OF THE TRUTH hierarchy exists in nature, that's the issue. the only thing that DIMINISHES hierarchy is your legally enshrined rights that exist only BECAUSE of your hated government.

you are literally protesting and fighting to create a world where hierarchy rules and the people on the lower end of the food chain literally become FOOD.

do you know what a food chain is bro? do you know how nature works? you seem to have no clue how things go without a government :(

anarchy IS and will always BE HIERARCHAL TO AN EXTREME DEGREE, FAR MORE THAN ANY DEGREE THAT YOU EXPERIENCE IN YOUR WESTERN CAPITALISTIC WORLD

FOR FUCKS SAKE, MORONACY OFF THE CHARTS

Anyone who believes in anarchism, who isn't an active bandit or a pirate, is impossible to take seriously.

People are fucking stupid, and we'd all benefit from a voluntary society. Let's just stick with our own and leave each other to our fate. It'd be much easier, instead of breaking others to a will which isn't their own.

Ancoms go (((there))), Ancaps can be somewhere else, and everyone else can fuck off too.

The structure doesn't matter, because incompetency is the bane of civilization, yet flush in this world. We could have the perfect system, and it'd still collapse in a matter of a generation. As long as individual enterprise and responsibility is shirked for a collective identity, we're trapped in a society of codependency.

user pls just answer me. you can just give a simple yes or no answer if you want to. DO YOU KNOW WHAT A FOOD CHAIN IS?
FOOD CHAIN.
SERIOUSLY
FOOD CHAIN
DO YOU KNOW IT?
DO YOU KNOW WHAT A FOOD CHAIN IS?

HOW ON THE FUCKING EARTH CAN YOU SAY "ANARCHY IS NON HIERARCHAL"?

HOW THE FUCK user?

HOW DID YOU SURVIVE IN LIFE LONG ENOUGH TO GET TO WHERE YOU ARE? HOW THE FUCK? HOW THE FUCK user? HOW THE FUCK user?

Then animals at the top of the food chain would be equivalent to states.
Your autistic definition of anarchy is useless.

>UNIRONICALLY STATING THAT "ANIMALS ARE STATES" IN ORDER TO KEEP YOUR BROKEN, SHITTY IDEOLOGY INTELLECTUALLY AFLOAT
ANCOM TARDS BTFO. STFU LOSER ANIMALS AREN'T STATES. NATURE IS INHERENTLY HIERARCHAL, ONLY GOVERNMENT DAMPENS ITS NATURAL HIERARCHY. THAT'S THE POINT. WEAK FAGGOTS LIKE YOU ARE GOING TO GET EATEN BY STRONGER AND SMARTER HUMANS IN THE WORLD YOU ARE BUILDING, MORON.

God fucking damn you retarded smoothbrain, you could probably lick your small intestines with how far you've got your head up your ass. Political anarchism isn't just the absence of government, it certainly isn't chaos, disorder and lawlessness. In fact, the classic circled A symbol of anarchism is actuall an A inside an O, referring to the quote "Anarchy is order".

Did you know that one of the seminal works of anarchism, Kropotkin's Mutual Aid, was inspired by his observations of nature? That nature was not merely a free-for-all darwinistic murder tournament, but that all sorts of animals would band together for mutual benefit. The idea that people can freely associate and cooperate and form groups that have no definite leaders is the basis of political anarchism.

>ignores the fact that states are currently at the top of the hierarchy and have been for the last 4,000 years or so

>anarchist gets BTFO by simple facts, logic and observations
>mentally retreats into totally unrelated factoids, symbology, philosophy and desperate attempts to invoke academics in hopes of seeming smarter than they are, and less totally BTFO'd.
every. single. time.

dude the only thing dampening the hierarchy in your life is the state itself, which grants brainless morons like yourself equal rights and permissions and protections as everyone else, where as in nature, tards like you would get eaten before they hit puberty.

>why doesn't human civilization follow jungle law?!?!11!?

To me, who's only seen the memery of both sides, anarcho capitalism can make sense to me in a way. Like you don't need a state, only the market kinda thing. Anarcho communism just completely baffles me. You need a state to seize the means of production and redistribute wealth (communism), but at the same time you want no system (anarchy)? Just seems like an oxymoron to me.

this was meant for another thread but it closed by the time I was done, dumping it here.

They are both equally wrong.

what do animals have to do with ancapism, stupid dick brain

Look, it's not my fault you're such a dim bulb you can't understand it when I repeatedly state that political anarchism isn't a fucking survival of the fittest social-darwinistic murderbowl. I guess your lifelong social incompetence must have poisoned your mind to such a degree that you cannot understand the idea of voluntary cooperation without coercion, and can only view things in the lens of fighting and competition.

you don't think there is hierarchy in jungle tribes? you have another thing coming bro. there's also a ton of savagery and brutality, you're glad you don't live in such a community, believe me. some tribes in africa literally feed their children semen because they think it will make them stronger warriors. and that's just something goofy and gross, not even getting into all of the slavery, torture, totalitarianism and murder that those tribes generally practice.

ancapism? no. not ancapism. ancommunism. shut up man, read the full thread before you make a stupid response like that.

One is as spiritually empty and morally corrupt as the other.

All of these Wikipedia articles are garbage. It's not Anarchy if you have rules and elections you fucks. Jesus Christ these social studies are getting ridiculous.

dude the problem is that you "stating" that "that's not how ancom is" doesn't change the fucking fundamental laws of nature. that's the problem. you don't just get to say "nope nope nope, that's not how it is in my own perfect idealized image of things".
wrong.
sorry.
in reality, which doesn't care about your hopes, dreams or feelings, the absence of a state renders you into a state of perpetual hierarchy where the lower "castes" (for lack of a better term) become slaves or food. period. that's life. that's history. that's every animal on the planet and what they deal with. that's what a lack of government gets you. so have fun, faggot.

nobody cares about you say "nope nope nope nope, that's not how it is" because the rest of us live on planet earth and know that it is.

>you don't think there is hierarchy in jungle tribes?
How do you manage to be so autistic but so retarded at the same time?

>states are good because it saves us from nature's hierarchy

A few posts ago...
>authoritarian states are bad because they interfere with natural hierarchies.

So basically you've decided that a bit of your vaunted common sense and a stunted understanding of how nature and the survival of the fittest works is somehow superior to all the thought that has been put into anarchism as a political philosophy?

>The sociability of the bees is the more instructive as predatory instincts and laziness continue to exist among the bees as well, and reappear each. time that their growth is favoured by some circumstances. It is well known that there always are a number of bees which prefer a life of robbery to the laborious life of a worker; and that both periods of scarcity and periods of an unusually rich supply of food lead to an increase of the robbing class. When our crops are in and there remains but little to gather in our meadows and fields, robbing bees become of more frequent occurrence; while, on the other side, about the sugar plantations of the West Indies and the sugar refineries of Europe, robbery, laziness, and very often drunkenness become quite usual with the bees. We thus see that anti-social instincts continue to exist amidst the bees as well; but natural selection continually must eliminate them, because in the long run the practice of solidarity proves much more advantageous to the species than the development of individuals endowed with predatory inclinations. The cunningest and the shrewdest are eliminated in favour of those who understand the advantages of sociable life and mutual support.

ok this is just a literal strawman, i never said "authoritarian states are bad because they interfere with natural hierarchies" i said if you perform artificial natural selection, essentially a form of eugenics, you're going to fuck your population up because nature is the greatest arbiter of who has the best genes to survive and who doesnt. this argument also goes with the ancom strategy of murdering anyone who doesnt fit into their ideological box

wow man

>lose arguments
>totally make up positions your opponent doesn't have in order to orchestrate meaningless ad hominems against them and deflect attention from the fact that you're totally called out
nice

>So basically you've decided that a bit of your vaunted common sense and a stunted understanding of how nature and the survival of the fittest works is somehow superior to all the thought that has been put into anarchism as a political philosophy?
yes moron, i feel fairly confident i can say that you fucking autist.

You know what's funny? I'm not even an anarchist, I just came into this thread to point out that anarcho-capitalism is an oxymoron, but here I am defending them because the political knowledge of the average Sup Forumsyp is slightly lower than that of a member of the class Anthozoa.

dude you are unironically saying "how dare you think for yourself and not dogmatically agree with my second-tier marxist intellectuals!"
i mean.......sure dude. whatever, you know? if you're at that autism power level i can't stop you. you're a beast, you know? you're unstoppable.

Alright, here's a book that refutes all that shit:
theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-mutual-aid-a-factor-of-evolution

Well, the Ancaps have economics on their side...and freedom....so they're clearly superior...to everyone. Somalia has compunding issues that make it a very poor example of what a more...european cultured.. civilization would be like absent regulations.

I'm not an Ancap, but I certainly think they have a very strong argument. The other idiot is just screeching and preaching failure.

>if you perform artificial natural selection, essentially a form of eugenics, you're going to fuck your population up because nature is the greatest arbiter of who has the best genes to survive and who doesnt.

The best genes to survive under jungle law.
But I thought jungle law was bad, user!
Why can't you make your mind up? How come your argument keeps changing?

> Anarcho-Feels vs Anarcho-Logic
No contest.

>have no argument
>post a link to a giant book in order to shut down the conversation
nice dude, nice. except nothing refutes the basic fact that life is brutal and nature is full of inherent hierarchy, and only your government and your state, by granted you legally enshrined rights, combat and diminish that hierarchy in your life. nothing. literally nothing. there are no books you can cite. there is no second tier intellectual you can invoke. nothing. it's just pure simple common sensical knowledge.

Also, user, why are you ignoring the fact that states are a product of nature, as are behaviors like artificial selection?
Which includes "sexual" selection, i.e. mates picking their partners based on desirable attributes.
Are you sure you understand what you're talking about when you say "natural selection"?

user i never made a value judgement on jungle law one way or the other, YOU did, that's the point. i only DESCRIBED jungle law. you inherently added the value judgement to it because you are so naturally averse to it.

i lived in the woods for 5 years when i was a teenager into my early 20s. i know all about how that stuff works.

problem with people like you is that you're all form high income homes. you all lived pleasant, cushy indoor lives. every single time almost. every marxist, every communist, ever "anarchist" has lived a pleasant, rigid, coordinated, controlled life, where they didn't have to worry about any of the nature shit, and they're totally oblivious to it.

people who actually grow up out in the world see the inherent flaws in your naive and ignorant thinking within .02 miliseconds.

Destroy all anarchist scum.

Checked.

if you're going to suggest that the state deciding who does and does not get to reproduce is "natural selection" by invoking some overtly concrete definition of "nature" to include the state and human tyranny then it's autism. it's either 1) dishonest or 2) autism, plain and simple, and i have no desire to engage with that sort of stupidity.

So you don't mind the fact that ancoms want to subject us to jungle law? You're just annoyed they don't follow your definition of "anarchy"?

Living in the woods isn't living under jungle law, user.

Look, I posted a link explicitly refuting the points you're trying to make. It's not my fault you suffer allergic reactions to any material containg more than a few hundred words.

I wouldn't suggest that, because I actually understand what the concept of "natural selection" is.
States deciding who gets to reproduce is artificial selection. But artificial selection is a product of nature, as is everything else including states, so your autistic logic about nature being the best arbiter is self-defeating and meaningless.
Try again next time.

You do know that the reason ancaps stress freedom of association is so that they can enforce social norms without it being illegal?

Yeah, that's half the reason. Now give the other half.

you need to stop it dude, every single post of yours is just you attributing views and opinions to me that i didn't express or even hint at anywhere in previous posts.
honestly i have no real idea what you're talking about. you're just trying to read in to some deeper views that haven't been discussed here, that you apparently think i have.
i've only pointed out that "anarchy" obviously isn't what any of the people running around shouting about it think it is. it's brutal and messy and bloody and you have to work your ass off to stay alive, and you have to fight every day, and you have to be wary of people who want to murder you because there is no state restrain them.

simple statement of facts. all of the value judgements you are adding yourself.

yeah there is no refutation. sorry.
god the dogmatic belief you people have in your commie intellectuals is sad.

Because it'd be wrong anyway for a state to tell people what to do on their own property regardless of whether they adhere to respectable social norms or not?

wow this is a great argument about semantics and linguistics that has absolutely nothing to do with anything real or substantive. amazing. lets just say you got me though bro. ok? you win. ur much smaaatter than me, alrite? if that's what you're looking to be, you can be it. i'm not here trying to prove that i'm smarter than you or anything. just pointing out some of the obvious flaws in this broken AnCom political ideology.

AnCap is actually possible, but not desirable. AnCom is just impossible in general.

Ancaps are right in theory but it won't work in practice. Commies are wrong in theory and there are historical records that prove that it doesn't work in practice.

Thus proving a small government is best

i dunno bout that bro, i'm not AnCap at all but i stress freedom of association because i don't want my government telling me who i can and cannot associate with. seems like a pretty simple concept to me :(

>it's brutal and messy and bloody and you have to work your ass off to stay alive
That's what you're claiming the result of anarchy being implemented is. Which I don't disagree with.
But that's different from what the definition of the concept is.
This confusion is one of the troubles with being autistic, I understand.