Castle Doctrine

What do you think? This guy was convicted of 2 counts of murder.
Definition: A castle doctrine is a legal doctrine that designates a person's abode or any legally occupied place – e.g., a vehicle or home – as a place in which that person has protections and immunities permitting one, in certain circumstances, to use force (up to and including deadly force) to defend oneself against an intruder, free from legal prosecution for the consequences of the force used.

>Be 64 year old Vietnam vet and retired State Department civil servant
>no wife, no kids, live alone in semi-rural Minnesota, USA.
> Home gets robbed at least 6 times, thousands of dollars in cash and possessions lost.
> Call the police every time, nothing gets solved
> Weapons get stolen from my home while I'm away. Police file report and do nothing
>scared as shit in my own home, these thieves have guns now
> Start carrying a loaded revolver in a holster in my own home.
>Install security cameras and audio equipment
>Day before Thanksgiving 2012, spot suspicious teens casing my house.
>Thanksgiving Day, Turn off all lights and park my vehicle down the street and walk home so it looks like nobody is home.
> Sit in the basement in my comfy chair with 1 rifle and 2 pistols, facing the stairs.
>6 hours go by, 12pm noon now.
>Sound of two sets of footsteps outside. People are testing my front and back doors. Have deadbolts and reinforced frames due to previous break-ins.
>Hear glass break.
>Someone starts walking down stairs. Shoot him twice quick. He falls down the stairs. Shoot him once more in the head. Move the body onto a tarp and wait in my chair.
>5 minutes pass
>Someone else starts walking down the stairs
>Shoot once in the mid-section, she falls down the stairs, screaming. Fire again but rifle jams. Take out revolver and pump 3 rounds into intruder.

Audio recording of home invasion:
youtube.com/watch?v=r6RGXGgTr6g
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byron_David_Smith_killings

Other urls found in this thread:

us.tomonews.com/this-chilling-audio-recording-of-byron-smith-executing-two-minnesota-teens-which-secured-his-murder-conviction-is-not-for-the-fa-2922782
latimes.com/nation/la-na-montana-shooting-20141217-story.html
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

shameless self bump

went from page 9 to page 2, so i beg to differ

Yes, he did drop them

Drink sum fohstahz beah, ya cawnt.
Wuch ahht fo dee keedz, beecawhz deah ah ayy lotz ov deen'gohz neah DEE areah mayeet.

Based guy. Too bad he didn't get to clean up more filth.

he had no reason to fire the execution shots. they were incapacitated. if they had survived or at least made it to the ambulance alive, he wouldnt be locked up.

shooting an unarmed girl three times is bad but possibly admissible - the fourth and final point blank shot under her chin is excessive.

His problem is when he fired the "finishing" shots.

Also there's a problem the way he "baited" them by parking down the street and setting the home up to look unoccupied.

I'm not arguing for the home invaders, I believe they got what they deserve.

You cannot lay a trap for someone in your home. You WILL get raked over the coals by the courts. And you sure as fuck cannot execute them once they are no longer a threat.

He should've holed up and called PD as soon as he heard someone in his home.

As much as I hate to say this, I think the home owner was in the wrong for doing what he did.

I completely agree. He was itching to kill them, not simply defending himself.

it only happened because he sounds like a total pyscho in the recording.

> the fourth and final point blank shot under her chin is excessive
kek, I almost cant blame to dude for dishing out fantasy level revenge against would be robbers. I bet he said some corny Eastwood line afterwards too.

I mean, they already broke in multiple times. Do you blame him for wanting to kill those shitheads?

There's also the "shut the fuck up" doctrine that should also apply after the shooting. Pro-Tip: Don't record your shit. Don't talk to anyone without a lawyer. Never mention this kind of stuff to another living person.

I've read that in court today to pretty much have to show that you were pissing your pants with fear. You cannot display any kind of cognitive forethought into trying to kill these invaders.

Even though those pieces of shit deserve death, you gotta play the game.

Doesn't help that he moved the fucking body, and then waited for the other to follow. That's when this becomes nothing but a trap, not any better than rigging up a spring-gun on a tripwire.

no. you have to make sure the scum is dead.
idiot
you don't know the first thing about killing invaders.

fuck thieves, they deserve what they got

>145928360
>Not posting the full uncensored video with Smith's dialogue.
Are you an..oh wait a fucking leaf
us.tomonews.com/this-chilling-audio-recording-of-byron-smith-executing-two-minnesota-teens-which-secured-his-murder-conviction-is-not-for-the-fa-2922782

He whispered

> I'm not a bleeding heart liberal

Then went on to talk about killing them, like cleaning up diarrhea, he recorded the whole event.

I don't blame him for wanting to kill them.

Stealing shit is different then trying to kill. The home invaders I worry about are those who don't care that you're home. Those are the ones that kill you/you're family.

This guy made it appear he wasn't home for the purpose of killing them in a self defense like manner. I think that's murder.

The intruders are complete scumbags but they were obviously doing what they were doing to steal shit and nothing more. If that deserves the death penalty in your book then make it the sentence for theft.

This guy is a hero

I think he definitely had the right to shoot these home invaders, even if he could NOT ascertain if they were armed or not. Simply can't take the chance.
However the fatal shots to the head of each invader was pure overkill.

don't you think it'd wear on you psychologically to have your home robbed several times?

>you/you're family.

You can't set a trap in your home for thieves. That's like saying, "I got sick when I stole his lunch from the refrigerator"

In the recorded police interrogation afterwards he said he knew since middle school that something about being "ganged up on" by others triggered a strong response in him.

he unironically dinu nuffin

>invade home
>die
There is literally nothing wrong with this. If everybody who invaded a home died, there would be much less home invasions.

why did they edit the audio? I want to hear the uncut version with the girl dying.

Also why would she go check the basement after she just heard her bf get shot?

I'm from Minnesota and remember this case. This had nothing to do with castle doctrine. He was convicted because he killed them when they were down and no longer a threat and then had the bright idea to record himself doing this.

He's a fucking idiot and deserves to be in prison.

Fuck off niggers. You do not have the right to break into someone's house. If you broke into my house, I'd kill you too.

the police wouldn't help him
if the intruders hurt/killed him the police wouldn't have done anything about it
I don't blame the guy

This. Got robbed two and half months ago while I was upstairs asleep. Cops said it was probably a good thing I didn’t wake up and find them. Shit probably would have gone bad for me since I was unarmed and these fuckers probably were. Have a shotgun now cameras and security system. Shit sucks being robbed

> He was itching to kill them

6 Break ins
Nothing happening

You would be too. Noone else seems to be doing anything.

I agree, what really did it for me is he fucking executed them while they were down. I would have shot them too, but I can't defend his choice to finish them like that. Dude was a straight lunatic.

You guys aren't fucking getting it. Of course he had the right to defend himself kill those degenerates but when you're in a self defense situation you're shooting to stop the threat. If your target does down and is incapacitated you can't keep shooting. That's where he fucked up and why he was guilty of murder.

Smart man hes a hero. every white man should be like him

>defending 2 shitheads that broke into someones house

What a cucked society we live in. If you break open a window or door and enter my house then I should get to decide your fate PERIOD.

>The intruders are complete scumbags but they were obviously doing what they were doing to steal shit and nothing more. If that deserves the death penalty in your book then make it the sentence for theft.
If you don't want to get shot, don't break into a house in a state with legal gun ownership and castle doctrine. That's not hard. I think he was justified. To anyone going "oh but he didn't need to kill them", they could have had god knows what and he was probably running on adrenaline at that point. Manslaughter.

>expecting rational thought from a guy outnumbered in his own home by repeat burglars in a state with 1* on the Brady Scorecard

Of course you can, if they survive they will sue you and win.

So glad I live in a state with clear laws that let me blast the fuck out of people who would break into my home.

they had it coming

>baited

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize home owners could fucking commit entrapment by choosing to make their home look occupied or not.

Fuck out of here with this bullshit...

He set a trap for them, it wasn't as simple as a home invasion. Then he recorded the entire thing and started talking like a deranged psycho maniac after.

I think the kids absolutely deserved what they got, but it was right that he go to prison for it given what actually happened.

>home invasion against aging 'nam veteran after several previous robberies

not a wise decision.

guess I better stop parking in the garage. I don't want to go to jail for when some thugs come to break into my house.

Well, unfortunately that's not how the law works.

You shoot to incapacitate. Not to kill.

They literally can:

latimes.com/nation/la-na-montana-shooting-20141217-story.html

And look, it's in Montana. About as uncucked as you can be and the dude still got convicted.

>He set a trap for them

can you explain how exactly it's a "trap"? going into a dangerous area that you know you aren't allowed kind of makes it not a trap to me.

it's not like he put a sign on his door that said "free candy just come in" and then shot them in the back as soon as they crossed the threshold. that would be a trap.

>he probably should have just went and had a smoke, then ten, maybe twenty minutes later call the cops and report a shooting and injured people. maybe they'll die first.

Unfortunately the brit is right. You cant just shoot people if youre not in fear of bodily harm. After theyre bleeding out without a weapon you gotta stop and call the cops

You can listen to the tapes. He went way too far.

Not overkill, simply humane.

>2 piece of shit thieves dead
>1 psycho looking to kill unarmed teens in prison

Sounds like a win-win to me.

>victory dance and prat after kids broke into your house and you killed them illegal.
Ok.
Second point, anyone breaking into house should get punished this was that.

curious to see if the jury was mostly women, hah

?

Did you read the article at all? He straight-up executed one of them.

was he aware beforehand that they

>were unarmed
>teens
>not willing to commit violence against him

?

he would have gotten away with it if he didnt record the audio

Had the right to shoot them but he finishes them off instead of tying them or something. I understand why he did it but he did not have to shoot them more than once if they weren't a threat.

>1 psycho looking to kill piece of shit thieves in prison
Does not sound like a win-win

He was aware before the fucking kill shots.

He didn't get away with it because he murdered them in cold blood. It was obvious that he had no intention of detaining them until the police arrived he killed them out of vengeance.

Personally, I don't give a damn but that is the law.

I will torture the sad little faggot who breaks into my house then I will kill him and then cover it up. No one will know what happened to the disgusting criminal all because of pathetic cucks like you.

Correct. Incapacitate them by shooting for the head.

You ever watched a movie where the good guy shoots the bad guy and thinks he’s dead but he’s not

>Shooting for the head
>Not center mass

Stop watching so many movies and playing video games ffs....

>You shoot to incapacitate. Not to kill.

Factually 100% wrong. If anything, you will get into more trouble by "shooting to incapacitate"

Stop spewing bullshit.

And then the robbers sue you for harming them since they are still alive

>Personally, I don't give a damn but that is the law.
>not understanding libertarianism
Sup Gary Johnson.

I see nothing wrong with what he did. They knew what they were doing when they broke into his home, they knew it had to come with some risks. He was even nice enough to wait to call in the bodies until after Thankgiving so he didn't bother the officers on a holiday. The dude is based.

Pretty much this. All persons involved were trash.

This.
By law, we have to take the chance that the faggots will get up again and kill us when our guard is down. Sick shit.
Should be able to execute them to remove the threat entirely when they enter your house illegally.

they actually stole war medals from a doddering vietnam vet and then went back for more.

>What a cucked society we live in.

indeed

>You shoot to incapacitate. Not to kill.
Wrong. Dead men tell no tales. You only have the testimony of the perpetrator and any witnesses, if they feel like talking.

>occupied or not
>links to story of someone that literally baited with a purse

>Ctrl+F intent
Well at least the entire thread isnt a bunch of reerees

Roastie status = toasted.

How can you possibly know that they don't have a weapon stuffed into their pants or (judging by picrelated) up their cavernous roastie snatch without completely stripping them while other invaders are potentially closing in on you for revenge? Killing them is the only viable self-defense.

>instead of tying them or something
Why? So they survive and bring guns in their next home invasion?

I don't agree with this at all. When i first started reading i expected it to be the meme where its actually a trap and he left his doors open and had valuables in clear site (on purpose) - aka actually baiting someone the fuck in.

What he did (aside from being dumb enough to record his revenge finishing shots) was not a fucking trap. In what world is a home owner obligated to make it obvious that they are home or not to anyone who would like to come and rape them? Thats some fucking retarded logic.

I'd even disagree with the execution memes when it comes to castle doctrine - but thats just my personal taste. I think logically if someone invades your castle then their fate should be left up to the owner of said castle - unless they escape the premises. There is no duty to flee and you can be as scared, or not, as you want to be.

What a fucking retard, I'm glad he's in jail. Why would you record all this shit and give some autistic manifesto speech, why not just wait and tell the cops they surprised you.

Probably just wanted to kill t.b.h. A retired civil servant with no wife and kids? Dude''s life was a waste and he just wanted some excitement.

The dumbass should have gotten some knives from the kitchen and put them in their hands.

Well here I am, a blue-pilled liberal bleeding heart pussy, who is entirely in favor of castle doctrine. It makes my blood absolutely fucking boil to think of anybody telling me that I have no right to defend myself in my own home. You have to be the cuckingest cuck to ever cuck to thing otherwise.

>"I am not a bleeding heart liberal. I felt like I was cleaning up a mess - not like spilled food, not like vomit, not even like…not even like diarrhea - the worst mess possible. And I was stuck with it…in some tiny little respect…in some tiny little respect. I was doing my civic duty. If the law enforcement system couldn't handle it, I had to do it. I had to do it. The law system couldn't handle her and if it fell into my lap and she dropped her problem in my lap…and she threw her own problem in my face. And I had to clean it up."

go smoke some weed and read your reason mag, faggot

>shoot to incapacitate
Not quite; it's shoot to protect.

In most cases, incapacitation is sufficient for protection, and additional force is unnecessary and can result in murder convictions. However, against any arbitrary number of opponents, the last thing you need is someone you thought was incapacitated to literally backstab/shoot you because they were actually still in commission.

The only truly reliable incapacitation is killing, and sometimes, this is precisely what the situation demands. That said, this Smith case was probably NOT such a situation.

Excessive ? Yes
Excusable? Yes

I want to call the americans cucks for the sentencing but i know that its basically the same sort of people here.
Would have given him maybe 5 years with parole desu due to the executions and them being unarmed, but not life.

You don't seem to understand what I'm getting at.
Shooting at the center of mass means they can still survive the encounter. Unless you intend to shoot them multiple times, but then you could go to jail.
A shot to the head (in this kind of case) would kill them and get you off the hook easier.

Yeah and thats exactly what the cops will say after they execute you in a no-knock raid that was supposed to be at your neighbors house. As usual, Sup Forums is missing the bigger picture. You cant literally execute people who are clearly no longer dangerous.

>That said, this Smith case was probably NOT such a situation.
I disagree. As you said, he didn't know whether they were armed, and he didn't know how many there were.
Leaving them alive, so that when reinforcements show up, it's 4 or 5 on 1, is not sensible.

It's sickening that we have to risk our lives in situations like this, to protect the lives of criminals.

Wow this dude was absolutely fucking insane, I support castle doctrine but I'm glad this absolute psychopath is going away.

Hell yea he was right if they broke in for the 1st or 50th time it doesn't matter.He couldn't have known what they might've had, especially since firearms were previously taken. I have cams in and out of my home, if I saw some people fucking around my doors or windows, I'd have a rifle ready too.

And this exactly what police have the power to do and so should we in our own homes

>Cops execute you after coming into your house.
>Somehow comparable to you executing others who come into your house.
Am I in crazy town?

You still have to prove in a court of law that your life was in danger.
Lying in wait and blasting an unsuspecting burglar isn't "self-defense".

Castle doctrine means that you don't have a duty to retreat, but you do not have permission to blast anybody in your home.

>didn't report a robbery cause they stole drugs
>drunkenly telling people you're planning on killing these kids before hand
fuck this guy. sounds like a complete pos.
still shouldn't be murder though. otherwise cops using bait cars/houses/apartments should be entrapment for inticing otherwise upstanding citizens into committing a crime.

MNfag here.

Unfortunately the case is over and the guy is in prison. I don't agree with the ruling myself but what the hell can I do?

I know, I'll just go to sleep. It's late but it will feel good. Try it anons

Sup Forums is pro castle-laws.

There are too many crimes now, people need to have the right to protect their home from immediate extreme criminal threat. The whole "hurr castle laws are bad" are just propaganda to take peoples guns.

he would've walked away scot-free if he wasn't retarded by A) not recording everything and B) just magdumping instead of walking over to execute them. If he was in fear of his life why the fuck would he have approached the intruders

hmmm this is interesting imo

Could this be justified by his ignorance on the invaders capabilities?