Is Akira Toriyama in the same level or above Hayao Miyazaki?

Is Akira Toriyama in the same level or above Hayao Miyazaki?

I think that you can say that Toriyama is on his own level, I don't recall any other mangaka being able to approach his amazing characters and worlds.

Toriyama has never been the best at anything. Not the best story writer. Not the best world builder. Not the best artist. Not the best action choreography. He's been good at many of those things, but never the best, or even close to the best (except maybe with action).

Yet, he is just about the most influential mangaka of all time. At least one of the most.

no

1/8, why am I even responding.

>Yet, he is just about the most influential mangaka of all time. At least one of the most.
user, there is literally no contest for most influential mangaka, Tezuka just blows everyone else out.

>Not the best action choreography.
Top kek

Tezuka, Nagai, Yokoyama, the Fujiko Fujio duo, and Akatsuka are all more or less indisputably more influential than him.

Nah, Toriyama is a natural genius at composition and cinematography. His manga is so easy to read and he naturally frames things in an interesting yet easy to understand way. It's probably the biggest secret to his success.

Yeah I know I was disagreeing with him.

Toriyama is very good. Probably most people that rag on him only watched the anime, or worse yet, the shitty DBZ anime. The DB manga is excellent.

That said, no, he's not Miyazaki level. He's also not on the level of top tier shounen contributors like Araki, Buronson/Hara, Togashi, or Arakawa. His art isn't particularly good either.

>top tier shounen contributors
>Togashi
Nice meme

Togashi is very talented but the man's got some issues, both physical and mental.

We're talking about Toriyama before that Super abortion was made, right?

Yes Dragon Ball will be popular among babby's first anime people. However, there's no doubt Togashi's YYH and HxH will have as a profound effect on the medium but in a different way. And series like JJBA, HnK, and Saint Seiya are far more influential than Dragon Ball in the long run, other than spiky blonde hair.

Lmao that's p funny OP

>Togashi's YYH and HxH will have as a profound effect on the medium but in a different way
How? YYH is a dirt poor man's DB.

>JJBA, HnK, and Saint Seiya are far more influential than Dragon Ball
Not really

Super is nothing new in the japanese anime industry. Pay sucks, animators are overworked and are given little time (notice how the animation quality of the recent episodes went up a bit with the breaks?), and the demand is low domestically if you aren't catering to otaku who want to fap or you're a popular brand. Seriously, why do you think the figures, dakimakura, etc. exist? It's because blu-rays and DVD's sell like SHIT and are not enough to fund anime by themselves. It's why 95% of anime target otaku because they buy the pervy shit because real girls are scary. All this is why Miyazaki, Anno, etc. say the anime industry is dying.

>and the demand is low domestically if you aren't catering to otaku who want to fap or you're a popular brand
It IS a popular brand.

YYH Hakusho kinda saved jump from dying, that's why now he can do what he wants

Yeah, it's why it even got an anime despite not being otaku pandering crap. Doesn't guarantee quality or anything though because of the time constrains and low pay I mentioned.

end of dragonball and the saiyan saga are masterpieces, at that time there weren't many things that made sense and had such a good pacing.

Is this a joke? He's a mediocre writer who managed to come up with some mediocre ideas before anyone else did, and kids loved it. They still love it when it's repeated over and over, and that's what DBZ is.

He's a great artist though, when it comes to action scenes.

>All this is why Miyazaki, Anno, etc. say the anime industry is dying
No, nigger, they've both been saying that for literal decades.

Except that's not true at all. Jump had fucking Dragonball and Slam Dunk, both literally the entire time YYH was running. YYH saved nothing at all. The reason Togashi got a good contract was because he was staying on for another series in a period where their other big names had finished their series and were not returning to Jump for another, so Jump really wanted Togashi to guarantee their future. That guarantee ended up being unnecessary because One Piece started immediately afterward, but they had no way of knowing that, which is why Togashi had such a favorable negotiating environment - because of how badly they needed a popular series in the future, not because of how badly they'd needed a popular series while YYH was running.

Correction to myself - One Piece had already started, but I guess they weren't confident it could be/remain a staple.

The low pay and overwork has been a problem for more than a couple decades. The otaku problem not so much for as long.

Since evangelion ended, when they started broadcsting anime late at night and when DvD prices shot up to 90$ so only a few thousand otakus would bother to buy them. Anime is a luxury product in Japan nowadays.

Bait thread, but Toriyama is excellent at paneling and action choreography.

Toriyama is responsible of the biggest manga franchise ever and is key part of the biggest videogame japanese franchise.

Miyazaki is not at that level.

>Toriyama is responsible of the biggest manga franchise ever
Toriyama is responsible for One Piece?

>amazing characters and worlds
Oh boy.

DB is bigger

Not all is japanese volume sales.

Toriyama did like 25% of the work for DBZ, just compare manga vs anime, Toei added most of the good scenes. Toriyama is good making characters and settings but he is lazy as fuck, his manga art is mediocre as fuck.

Miyazaki sucks, fuck that old fart
Toriyama at least had a good art style and a good sense of humour

>Not the best action choreography.
Bullshit
You can't name a single manga that has better choreography than Dragon Ball(especially in the Tenkaichi Budokai saga's)

>Mentioning Memeakawa
>Not mentioning Hiroyuki Takei
intothetrash.jpg

Toriyama is heavily underrated as a artist and mech-designer. He just got lazy and burt out making dragonball he probably forgot how to do a lot of things.

>Dragonshit
Fuck off

They also had Rurouni Kenshin
Also Dragon Ball wasn't Akira's only success, Dr Slump was a mega-hit in the early 80s too

this

He hates drawing nowadays because he's lazy and he absolutely hates inking

But yeah he was a god-tier artist in his prime(and this is before digital shit so it was all hand-drawn back then...no tracing bullshit)...he started getting worse somewhere around the Namek saga

As a manga artist he destroys Miyazaki. But there's literally no other way to compare them because their specialty is in completely diffferent mediums.

The only thing wrong with Dragon Ball is all of its anime

I completely agree, and I'm relieved to find out that I'm not the only one to think that

I don't want this thread to die yet so I'm gonna dump the best chapter.

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>not the best action choreography
what is the reason why people mostly remember DBZ? For me it was the action and how fluid it looked

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Toriyama only got his job because he had good calligraphy skills, not fucking joking. the guy is a hack, he is not talented, he only had luck on his side and knew how to use it. Im not saying that he doesnt deserve it (he worked his ass off) but if you are going to compare him to an artist, im saying that in no way toriyama stand on the same level as Miyazaki.

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End

I want dragonball super to not exist and instead I want a show about Master Roshi's training and young life.

Arguably Toriyama has inspired more mangaka than Miyazaki has inspired animators.

Dragon Ball actually sold more per volume.

One Piece: 380 million/82 volumes = 4.63 mil per volume
Dragon Ball: 230 million/42 volumes = 5.47 mil per volume

But Miyazaki's ideas and designs aren't anything special. It's the execution and presentation with them in the form of super high-budget movies that makes them memorable.

>And series like JJBA, HnK, and Saint Seiya are far more influential than Dragon Ball
Are you being this wrong on purpose?

For his later work I'd agree with you, but it's almost the exact opposite with his earlier work.

>Miyazaki's ideas and designs aren't anything special.

Good joke. Miyazaki blows away pretty much anyone else in the anime industry when it comes to that. There are better directors, but visual artists and designers? Practically none touch him.

>Saint Seiya

only matter if you're spic

>There are better directors, but visual artists and designers? Practically none touch him.

Millennials, everyone.

>Millennials

Nice buzzword, you sure proved me wrong.

How are Miyazaki's ideas or designs unique in any way shape or form? It doesn't look like modern anime, but that doesn't make it anything better than Dragonball or Jojo or Blame. Miyazaki is only special because his shit is animated with high production values.

Nausicaa was a bit creative, but everything afterward was by-the-numbers.

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That's animation, not art or design, tard.

What kind of contratrian faggot are you?

When people say " son goku", I can bet 10 times out of 10 that they meant Toriyama's magnum opus and not the legendary monkey king.

That's how influential DB is.

>what is the reason why people mostly remember DBZ

Because it was the first shonen they saw

The thing about Akira Toriyama is he's not bad at anything. At worst he's good at a particular aspect.

Except for creating characters that don't look exactly like every other character he's ever done. His signature style is a blessing for him though.

>See a game, manga, show etc.
>look at a character
>10000000000% tell when it's akira toriyama
>can't tell what it is though because every single thing he's ever done looks like it belongs in the same world

A one hit wonder.

Toriyama's writing is the kind that reinforces Hayao's "anime is a mistake"

Because people say "Wukong" when they want to refer to Journey to the West

Ideas are expressed through animation retard. Saying his work is special solely due to "high production value" is the most ignorant thing one could say.

>one hit wonder
What is Dr. Slump

>punches a guy downwards
>he goes up

Why won't thes "DBZ had good fights" meme die?

BLue dragon arale are prety good though and besides that do you think he had enough time to make another series??between dr slump and db that's like 13 years straight drawing a weekly manga

Dont know if this is bait or you are legitimately retarded

>He's also not on the level of top tier shounen contributors like Araki, Buronson/Hara, Togashi, or Arakawa
Wow this delusion.

Design and art are not animation you illiterate cocksucker.

By the way, Miyazaki is not a great animator either.

He's right though, feel free to post better.

No "people" say Wukong when they want to refer to League of Legends. Journey to the west is far less popular than the biggest ASSFAGGOT how does that make you feel?

This is bait, if it isn't, consider getting professional assistance for your downs.

Burden of proof is on you. Explain what makes Miyazaki's art and designs special, and how they're better than everyone else in the anime industry.

As for better artists and designers? Pretty much any mecha designer from the 80s. Nagano, Izubuchi, Kobayashi, etc.

>By the way, Miyazaki is not a great animator either.
This is bait, go watch Animal Treasure Island, Puss in Boots and Alibaba.

A two hit wonder then? Thats all you got?

Blue Dragon isn't Toriyama's work, he just did designs.

#1 monster design.

Neither of them are remotely close to the record holder per volume, so it doesn't matter. Black Jack has over 10M per volume.

Whatever you fucking faggot retards pretend is the most influential, the fact is that Dragonball is the most influential in the fucking west, 100% popularised shonen mangas and anime more than any fucking manga/anime that came before, and is still going strong 30 FUCKING YEARS LATER.

Kill yourselves you contrarian cunts.

t. retarded spic that would beg goku to fist him.