Should I become a catholic /pol...

Should I become a catholic /pol? I am currently a lutheran who think his country's church has become cucked and corrupted

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Depends.

What do you mean by "cucked and corrupted"?

Don’t. This is coming from someone who was raised Catholic

Pro-gay, pro-immigration etc.

so you want to become catholic?

Only join Catholicism if you believe in the theology of the Church.

As a Catholic, I'd say both Lutheran and Catholic are equally cucked. But this is only a temporary thing

read The catechism and decide from there if you want to go forward or not

Depends, which country do you hail from friend. I know personally. In America here the Catholics tend to be more ok. A lot of them don't tend to always go with what the pope says so they kinda become more ok. But again depends.

Watch Zynkyoku Haku, then decide

No.

You should become a pagan.

Christianity and monotheism in all of its flavors are foreign religions.

The true gods of the white man are the norse and pagan pantheon.

Read a book on religion, you're already celebrating every pagan holiday anyway, you just don't know it. Everywhere Christians went, they just cut and pasted Christ's name on all the solstice rituals and co-opted them to bring the natives into the fold.

Also, for the record, the Catholic church was the original cucked and corrupt church. The Lutherans left because they were sick of the corruption. Google the Borgia popes.

Pagans for the sake of "muh european" are not actual pagans, they're just larping atheists thinking that Thor is cool.

You don't actually believe in Wiccans and shit

The most pro gay countries in the world are overwhelmingly catholic

Everywhere I see you faggot tree-worshipers post it's always with venom against Christians.

Prove to me right now that you have a legitimate theology and aren't just a butthurt reaction to Christianity not letting you be a fag by making a post about your faith with no reference to Christianity.

Go ahead, evangelize us. Otherwise you just sound butthurt and aren't convincing anyone to do or believe anything but LARP.

No. Ex-Catholic reporting. Half Irish. Also quarter German, and and eighth Polish and Lithuanian each. 152 IQ (according to the MENSA test at least).

If you need to join a Christian church try and find an Eastern Orthodox one. They are the least pozzed.

Doubled my "and's" like a fucking retard. Still 152 IQ though.

This. I think paganism is great and all but most of everyone who preach it don't even believe in the shit they say.

Yes, you should, but because the Catholic Church is the one true Church, not because it does not have any of the social and political problems infecting Lutheranism. You can find Catholic clergy promoting the homosexual agenda and all manner of heresies (to a lesser degree than the mainline Lutheran churches, but still). If you do become Catholic, focus on the Catholic doctrine and tradition and not just what some Father Heretic said. If there is any nearby you, the Latin mass is a good filter.

If you are an American, then no. America is a Protestant country.

Why don't you just follow the Bible and become a member of Jesus' Church. Stop being retarded and looking to give yourself a manmade label.

You're fucked if you do and fucked if you don't there. Try a different sect?

a real 'lutheran' who really listened to martin luther would just call himself a christian and stop pointlessly dividing the church turn to God not man
if you are looking for something than is without sin in this world when it was made by man you will be disapointed

Source?

This. As a fellow Catholic I agree with this. If you don’t accept the fullness of the Catholic Church there is no reason to join. It’s not a club, it’s a faith you live everyday. And he’s right we are a little cucked right now because of moderate and liberal Catholics watering down the faith. Still there is only one Catholic Church founded by Christ. She will prevail.

this mostly, a lot of people tend to forget it's about what jesus's taught us when he was on this world. You can learn a lot from him and his time on this earth that's for sure.

Become a Jehovah's Witness instead.

In some ways this is true. They have definitely better preserved their liturgical heritage on average than Catholics. Nevertheless, there are other factors. Look at voting patterns. What portion of Eastern Orthodox vote blue? It's hogher than you would think for what issupposedly the most un-pozzed church. And apart from the laity, even in their doctrine, contraception and divorce, two of the great root causes of the social problemd of today, are largely approved by the EO clergy.

>tfw almost level 3

>t. Never studied Reformation history

The Protestant reformers were often more at each others throats than they were with the Catholics. And Luther held Catholics in higher regard than heretics like the "sacramentarians" (people who denied the necessity/efficacy of the sacraments).

Move to Mt. Athos, or just study Neoplatonism directly (forget the Jews, and forget the pacifist humanist universalist New Testament). Sift and use medieval Catholicism and Orthodox Christianity. They have value, but they have poison as well, and are certainly not, either of them, the "one true faith."

I don't have a religion because I don't give a shit and I don't need theology to provide moral authority in my life.

I was just citing the truth.

Easter is a spring solstice ritual. It was conveniently co-opted for Christ's resurrection date.

Halloween, while not an actual religious holiday on the Christian calendar, is saim-hann, the harvest ritual.

Most religions have seasonal rituals to mark the harvest and cultivation periods for agriculture. Christianity just bolts its dogma onto them and erases the native gods. That's why it's historically so successful at spreading.

Couldn't give a fuck about Ouija boards or Odin or any of that crap in my life. It's just interesting to read about.

But if you're gonna be "Captain Save the White Race" there are only 2 potentially correct answers...

1) Be an Odinfag because they were first
2) Fascism doesn't want or need any religion. It is a dogma unto itself.

Catholicism is literally controlled by a globalist right now.

How do people not get this. Just because Catholicism has this huge hierarchical structure does not mean it's right wing or something.

Pope is a total globalist that's honestly (should be) common knowledge by now.

Yes, the holidays were chosen because it was a simple way to get the old pagans to celebrate.

What's the issue with that?

If you're captain save the white race, just don't let a shit ton of immigrants. The whole pagan shit and fascism crap is reactionary faggotry

You realize that God, not pagans invented the solstice?

The Pope will be gone in a few years. Shitty Popes are a thing now and again

Stay Lutheran, leave the ELCA (pro gay), and join the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (LCMS). The LCMS is the old school Lutheran church - no women pastors allowed. Like church was in the 50's. Comfy

The Catholic church is pro-immigration and pro-gay, my friend.

Being against gay marriage is distinctly Catholic. Gay marriage is a sin afterall.

Pro-immigration is something all churches, except Orthodox are doing. I'd say, Church of Sweden and England are doing the most harm

The pope doesn't "control" Catholicism. He's the chief bishop, but his authority is limited. He cannot change Catholic dogma. Over here is the US of A, our lives as Catholics, at least where I am, are no different now than before except that we have to shake our heads at the headlines a little more often than before.

Nope.

Because I don't acknowledge the authority of any belief system that requires me to submit myself to the will of a divine creator.

If you think you're worthless and aimless without His light, that's fine. I am happy that you have something in your life that gives you guidance.

But I'm not looking for it. I just like reading religious texts and history.

Exactly. I really don't like this Pope, but I know he'll be gone soon, so oh well

Since I am a descendant of quite a few Knights and am eligible for knighthood myself should I go to Galicia for the 7 year vigil, I find it hard to not argue in favour of the Catholic Church.

My ties to the church are not just based on belief but culture and familial ties going back nearly a 1000 years. If you know in your heart you wish to take communion only once you have confessed to a holy father and truly forgiven yourself for your sins afterwords - then you are Catholic material. Forgiveness however does not entail amnesia of your sins.

Come to terms with that first. Then talk to your local parish priest.

Think about this you should jack off

People aren't worthless with His light. That isn't the point.

If you preach paganism, you aren't actually pagan. You're just a dumb American Larper. If you actually believe in pagan shit, good for you. But if not, you're just an edgy atheist

He said he belongs to a state church, so he's probably European. You know that picture of the lesbian bishop who said that they should remove all crosses from their churches to welcome Muslims? He probably belongs to a similar denomination if not the very same one (ai think the bishopess was from the Church of Sweden).

>Should I become a catholic /pol?
if you want to go to hell sure worship the virgin mother instead of god in front of a idol of a dead carpenter. the bible clearly states there is no one you are to worship but god. not his son not some one night stand he had. just him. the all consuming flame himself

He has changed things though. Aren't you guys "allowed" (I need permission Daddy!) to use condoms now? I'm so sick of the spics using that as an excuse to have 10 children.

Catholics don't worship Mary. They pray with Mary.

Do research

Regardless of whether you believe God created the world or not, the point is that thr seasons are built into nature. Pagans don't have a monopoly on nature symbolism.

The Pope can have opinions on shit, but it doesn't change anything or make it official.

That's only happened like 5 times in history, and it was for really small things. Until then, it's only his opinion and personal belief that everyone else can argue against.

I don't believe in any of it because I don't care. I can't be a spooky witch larper because I don't larp any of that stuff. I just like to read.


And the fundamental requirement of the Faith is that you bow down and are subservient to The Lord Your God and keep the Covenant of your fathers. That literally means without Him you ain't shit.

I'm alright by myself not thinking I'm shit without Him.

>Being against gay marriage is distinctly Catholic

Catholic PEOPLE, maybe, but the church is shifting to pro-gay. Yes, your local priest hasn't started wearing a rainbow-themed outfit to mass, but that's because you can't just force public opinion in a day. There is a very clear, obvious move towards it though.

The problem is, Catholicism is very much tied to its church. The institution is extremely strong and developed and it makes sure everyone is still tied to it - much like how in some Catholic countries you are forced, as a child, to undergo communion, you are forced to maintain relations with the church and such, else you cannot even get married. Not to mention the societal pressure.

So when I say the church is going pro-gay, it means Catholicism as a whole is.

That's the thing with our Orthodoxy, our church can declare it supports gays tomorrow, nobody will give a toss, we might burn some priests or hang them, but nothing will change. Orthodoxy is about the people, the village church, your local priest. That usually means there is no general agenda, because there is no single entity.

This has never happened in Church history, and cannot be recovered from. A string of Popes, and next to all of the world's bishops with them, have created a new modernist leftist religion contradicting the old religion, invoking the binding, infallible, and irreversible Extraordinary and Ordinary Universal Magisteriums. This won't ever be reversed, and it cannot be in any case. It's game over, Christ's promise, "and the gates of hell will not prevail against it", "I am with you until the end of days", have been proven false, the Church has defected.

You are still worth something, you are just blind. There's a difference.

Alright then.

I just hate that spics and coal burners use this "no condoms" excuse to have 10 kids.

I really fucking despise that and I think if you think that God or some shit is against condoms you are fucking retarded and you're retarded for being told what to do by a hierarchical structure that defends child molesters. There's multiple reasons why that's retarded as fuck.


Also I am not against Jesus. I am a Christian. Just wanted to say that. Before someone says I just hate catholics because I am a satan worshipper or some shit. It's not black and white.

If you think there isn't a general, overwhelming movement that the Pope is just a figurehead of, you're very blind.

Also it's not like Jesus himself is approving of the pope. Like fuck. THINK FOR YOURSELF.

That's my point. I don't need Him to tell me.

If He brings value to your life, that's great. Keep going to church. I work on Sunday, so I don't keep the Sabbath holy.

Every Catholic priest and person I know is entirely anti-gay. It's even taught about how society should not shift us.

Now the Pope cuck may speak about treating gays fine. But even he says they should look for a better lifestyle from their sinful ways.

Catholicism is like that too. The Vatican only affects major things every couple hundred years, but until then, it's the same thing.

Our local church is just the people and the local priest. We don't even see a bishop once a year.

Of course, Orthodox and Catholic disagree on stuff, but we're much more the same than you think.

No, no doctrine has changed. Every once in a while a fake news story will pop up where journalists who don't know anythong about religion take some pope's words out of context. (For example, one time Pope Benedict said something tothe effect that when HIV-positive rapists in Africa rapists choose to wear a condom, at least that shows they are making some consoderation about thw other person, and is a step in the right direction. Obviously the moral decision is to not rape at all condom or not, but journalists spun the pope as saying condoms were moral, which was not his point at all.) You can probably find some priest in San Francisc who would give you permission, but the priest doesn't have any authority to do that, and there have always been degenerate priests. Jesus warns about the wolves among the sheep.

Wait are you guys actually religious or just joking around? Weird seeing this shit in 2017. I'm from neogaf btw

There isn't a overwhelming movement. There is in, society. And society gets in, but we have to purge that from the Church.

It doesn't mean I should abandon the Church

see

...

nobody cares

get a job

Mexicans would breed like crazy without the condom thing anyway.

Nobody is being told anything. It's a personal thing that usually you only see the local church. It's just a huge organization is all.

I wasn't going to say you were a satan worshipper.

I want to become a christian, I really do. I just can't accept creationism. I really love Christian traditionalism and it's moral structuring, but I can't bring myself to see it as more than a way to control the masses.

Same here user
Last time I went to the church I grew up in, a woman announced that her son's girl scout troop was selling cookies
I told my father who used to volunteer his time there often, he told me we better find a real church
Lutherans have fallen far. They need to turn back

Are you serious right now?

because in Catholicism, not Chinese menu pick-and-choose Christianity, the Papacy is the highest mortal authority on Earth. It is his ship to steer.

If he says Catholics are pro gay and you don't go with it, that's not him not him breaking with the church, that's you breaking with the church.

Catholicism has a hierarchy of ranks. He's Head Honcho.

There are no Gnostic Gospels in the Catholic church, the gospels that say your relationship with Christ is personal and you don't need the dude in the big hat to make the call for you got edited out.

If you're Catholic and the Pope says jump, you say, "how high?" Those are the Catholic rules.

...

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>If he says Catholics are pro gay and you don't go with it, that's not him not him breaking with the church, that's you breaking with the church.

Surprise surprise, a Prot misunderstanding papal infallibility once again

Creationism is a very small minority in Christianity. Most take it allegorically, not literally.

Which is why it's retarded because the pope is a known globalist.

So you're basically a guaranteed liberal if you're a catholic.

Do I have to say anything more.

>Every Catholic priest and person I know

How many catholic priests do you know?

Have you read around the general community?

Have you read news in other catholic countries?

Have you seen what the institutions think and do?

>The Vatican only affects major things every couple hundred years, but until then, it's the same thing.


I keep forgetting how amazing they are as an institution that they can actually make you believe that.

>Our local church is just the people and the local priest. We don't even see a bishop once a year.

Sure, but that's pretty irrelevant. Perhaps your priest will get replaced with a more left-leaning one. Perhaps he will be instructed to be more tolerant. Perhaps you'll be worked over in different ways. Perhaps they'll give up on you completely and influence your children - it doesn't matter. Even if YOUR church stays the same somehow, catholicism itself is shifting. Maybe most will resist, but that's irrelevant. It is SHIFTING, that is the point. It's shifting at the top.

>Of course, Orthodox and Catholic disagree on stuff, but we're much more the same than you think.

We're the same, you just have a huge, overpowering institution above you.

This

And this

>Since I am a descendant of quite a few Knights

You and every other white person in the world. Good on you for researching your lineage, though.

That's not true at all. The only reason the peoplein Orthodoxy are different is because they are ethnically different. They are largely Eastern Europeans. But would could equally point to Poland and find that they are the same way. In America, Eastern Orthodox immigrants from Eastern Europe or the Middle East might have anti-homosexuality in their bones, sure, but if you look at a Greek Orthodox whose family has been in America for generations, is it the same thing at all? No. The Eastern Orthodox in America are no different from other Americans or immigrants.

archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/120132023/#120132023

>It doesn't mean I should abandon the Church

Nobody said you had to, it's your choice.

The important thing is to recognize the danger and to also start thinking about the FAITH above the CHURCH.

It's different than that. The Pope can steer the ship, but only so far, he can't literally change Christian teaching.

Sodomy is a sin. It's not like the Pope can say that something for thousands of years is not a sin.

If he did, he'd be cast out.

You don't know how Catholicism works at all.

Welcome to Orthodoxy, we don't give a toss about that shit and we're mostly about the traditionalism and moral structuring.

I guess you missed where Bishop Hilarion was blasting the West for Islamophobia and bragging about how Muslim Russia is and how many Muslim refugees Russia has taken quietly without making a scene like Nazi Germany.

>We're the same, you just have a huge, overpowering institution above you.
Yup. The Church that Jesus himself founded while he was among us. The Church is a creation of God. It is our honor to be invited to be a part of it.

I made a whole post about how I recognize the differences in the people, but the Church is a different matter.

You ever been to Poland, mate? Or Croatia? The Church is actively trying to shill them to soften their traditional values.

A lot. 20 or so.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes I have. Gay marriage is a sin.

It is not shifting. If anything it has shifted to be more environmental, but not in anything towards sinfulness

I'm done with this

You're referring to the Catholic Church?

>It is not shifting. If anything it has shifted to be more environmental, but not in anything towards sinfulness
>I'm done with this

Hey, it's your civilization.

Mine's doing fine, I feel no need to adopt meme flags to hide the shame of my nation.

Orthodox don't care about creationism? I wonder what your bishop would have to say about that.

Faith is above the Church. And when the shift does happen, I know many will fight within the Church to stop it.

I know that there is a danger, it's just the fight hasn't started yet. When it does, I'll never allow the institution to be corrupted in such a way.

>You're referring to the Catholic Church?
Yup. Jesus founded his Church and placed St. Peter at its head, vesting in him the authority to lead it. That same Church exists today as the Roman Catholic Church, and Pope Francis is the direct inheritor of the same authority given by Jesus to St. Peter two thousand years ago.

I don't disagree. The most red-pilled person I know is my 87-year-old grandmother who is half German and half Lithuanian. She's getting a bit senile by now (her husband died in 2011), but she still spits out really useful wisdom occasionally. She's been a devout Catholic forever; married my grandfather at age 20, raised in a traditional Catholic household with nine other siblings. My aunt is 12 years older than my mother, because they didn't believe in abortion. Also had a son 3 years before my mother was conceived. All of my family members on my mother's side are Catholic.

Dude, stop thinking about ideas for awhile. Christianity is a belief in a real person, not a doctrine. You want to belive? Have you tried asking God to manifest itself to you? So just do it, with sincerity, and it will happen.

No, it would have to do a roll-back of Vatican 2 before being even remotely trustworthy at the moment.

I don't care about creationism. There is no "orthodox this" or "orthodox that".

I went for drinks with the priest the other day, he wouldn't care. Nice guy, he'd probably just go "as long as you live a good life, son".

Who says you'll be there to fight it when it happens?

Hot damn. Staying up into US times is enlightening. Man am I glad I never got shilled into moving over there.

If you want to burn in the lake of fire then go right ahead

Maybe on issues like immigration or whatever, but you're wrong that "the Church" is shifting pro-gay.

Join the Celtic Church
Rekindle the HRE

Jesus said, “Two men went into the Temple to pray - one being a self-righteous man and self-deceiver,
the other a man aware of his failings and shortcomings. The self-righteous man prayed in this manner:
‘I praise my God for many blessings, giving thanks that I am not like the majority of men - deceitful and dishonest.
I fast twice weekly, pay all my debts, and attend every Temple gathering.’
This man had a specially reserved seat, so the other was standing apart as he prayed differently, saying,
‘ God, do not desert me. I have many failings and need help so I may become a better man.’”

Jesus said, “I assure you: The man who benefited was the second man, not the first.
Though the first man had many virtues, he was unable to recognize his failings.
The second man was reconciled with God, while the other was not.
He who prays must be as one looking into a mirror - not looking a gratifying reflection, but seeking an image revealing his faults.

“If a man put tinted glass before his eyes to enhance his image, thus putting out things he does not wish to see,
he is not only a self-deceiver but a fool unto himself. The charioteer does not overhaul his chariot to seek the strong points,
but to discover the flaws; and if he did not put these right, he would risk his life.”
When eventide came and Jesus sat with the envoys, one of them said,
“Sire, we have given up all we have to follow You, and sometimes we get depressed.”

Jesus said, “The blows life delivers are strengthening ones, and without adversity men would become weak in spirit.
The reward I can offer is small compared with your rewards in glory, for here you are small but in Heaven you will be great.
There, the highest on Earth shall be lowest, and the lowliest here shall be the exalted there.
This, however, does not follow logic, but as long as the challenge of life is met, it will be surmounted.”

Perhaps. Does it matter if your church becomes rabidly leftist and marxist with a clear political agenda, but totally hates gays?