What is Sup Forums's opinion on the society portrayed in this book?
Should only those who have served in the military (or volunteered to serve the state in some fashion) be allowed to vote?
Back in the early days of the USA only land owning adult white males could vote so this idea can't be that radical.
actually i am really right wing but i think that people who serve in the military are psychopaths and wouldn't want my future in their hands.
fuck the respect i am supposed to give them, every person i know who joined the military was a certified socio and just wanted an excuse to kill people legally. but prob 19th amendment should be abolished if we're to continue our survival into the future.
I was too busy fapping to Denise Richards
That's under current voluntary enlistment. If service was compulsory for "citizenship", military service would be structured much differently and emphasize training in non-combat roles.
maybe, but i think "landowner" is a better metric to use because 1) people have a lot of psychiatric disorders after they get out of the military and 2) any dumb grunt can sign up, landowning generally implies that you have the intelligence to make your way in the world and probably have at least some basic understanding of how our economics process works.
just my perception and opinion.
this
Yes, but with a caveat.
It works for their society and their level of engagement on the galactic scale. The number of soldiers necessary for a planetary siege must be absolutely immense and one would need to heavily incentivize service (and loyalty) to preserve one's entire species.
Just finished reading the book and I didn't think it was anti-war at all. Most of the book takes place in the recruit training camp but it's not torturous. 8/10
>only landowners can vote
Fuck this is retarded. Do you really think giving the Jews more of a voice is a good idea?
Dude, the book itself shows the problem with it in like the first 30 pages. Since service is needed for citizenship, that means the military can't turn anyone away (including the disabled, cowards, etc.). Therefore the military gets super bloated and looks for shit to do to justify this huge expenditure it has training all this chaff.
It's exactly why I'm glad that as a sailor Trump wants to get trannies out of the military. Being in the military is not a right.
>Jean Rasczak: All right, let's sum up. This year we explored the failure of democracy. How our social scientists brought our world to the brink of chaos. We talked about the veterans, how they took control and established the stability that has lasted for generations since. You know these facts, but have I taught you anything of value this year?
>[to a student]
>Jean Rasczak: You. Why are only citizens allowed to vote?
>Student: It's a reward. Something the federation gives you for doing federal service.
>Jean Rasczak: No. Something given has no value. When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force my friends is violence. The supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived.
Was he redpilled?
no in my world we would have a white ethnostate and then deport the jews to israel, which im fine with existing, so long as they don't come near us.
i don't even really believe in the "only landowners can vote" thing but the context of the conversation was specifically about restricting the franchise. so if its between landowners of military vets, i would choose landowners, but only landowners in an ethnostate.
if we're talking about our current political context then you don't want to let military vets control things either user, since most of them are not white and many of them are illegal and don't' really give a shit about the USA, they're just doing a job for a paycheck.
The Fascist themes in the movie were supposed to be satirical. It was supposed to be a cautionary warning about what America could become if it gives in to militarism and jingoism.
But even so, the history lesson Michael Ironside's character gives is compelling. Aren't we living in the society he described? One where ancient wisdom is discarded for the liberal notions of social scientists? Positivist social science is the enemy of Traditionalism because you cannot convey to a person the benefits of religious wisdom if all they will accept are statistical studies grounded in a series of tenuous methodological assumptions.
Absolutely. Prove him wrong, lefties.
youtube.com
> Hive mind left vs traditionalist right
In the movie, yes
In the book the fascist themes were pretty sincere
The military is the ideal fascist state.
The people at the top give orders to their inferiors. Competence is rewarded with promotion. No democracy but strong esprit decorps. Highly motivated and fit personnel. Disciplined populace, ready to undergo hardship. Technologically sophisticated, ready to use any means to achieve their goals.
Militaries evolved organically to meet a need, a truly urgent need that came above all politics. The need to defend the state. Their efficiency in combat, the truly objective definition of societal success is unquestioned.
Pity the Aus military is nothing like I described.
the thing is that because hollywood is a cultural marxist shithole, all "good movies" that are redpilled get made accidentally.
they get made as propaganda attempts that fail.
a good example is Falling Down with michael douglas. that movie is intended as an attack on the white male in a changing society and the filmmakers even came right out and said it, but they accidentally made the character too sympathetic and audiences ended up sympathizing with him.
and same with the starship troopers movie. the liberals say "oh the humans are supposed to be the bad guys" and yeah that's prob how the filmmakers intended it, but nobody watches that movie and roots for the bugs. literally millions of people watched that movie and rooted for the big bad blond haired, blue eyed nazis to win the day against the bugs, which were, BTW, basically communists or the direct extrapolation and representation of what a communist society will one day become if it manages to engulf an entire planet.
(BTW the cover of falling down ironically says "pepe" on it. pretty ironic considering this character is really very relatable to much of the alt-right and right-wing populists in the world today, particularly the white ones)
Reading the wiki page for the book I came across this nugget. These people really need something better to do with their time.
>Authors and commentators have stated that the manner in which the extraterrestrial beings are portrayed in Starship Troopers has racist aspects, arguing that the nicknames "Bugs" and "Skinnies" carry racial overtones. John Brunner compared them to calling Koreans "gooks".[80] Slusser argued that the term "Bugs" was an "abusive and biologically inaccurate" word that justified the violence against alien beings, a tendency which, according to Slusser, the book shared with other commercially successful science fiction.
>What is Sup Forums's opinion on the society portrayed in this book?
It's my favorite book. It's a fun and entertaining read, with a lot of thinking material in the middle section.
However it isn't Heinlein's best work. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is way better, Sup Forums wise. I'm now reading Stranger in a Strange Land, it's interesting.
LMFAO
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>I'm now reading Stranger in a Strange Land
Finished that one a few weeks ago, went in to it with no knowledge about it at all. It's not what I expected at all, and the last third of the book is truly odd.
Wouldn't read it again but it's got some interesting ideas, but it never goes in the direction that I want it to. 7/10
We're gonna need a lot of people to bleach this planet.
Do you want to know more?
God damn I just realized that.
Hell American History X would probably invoke a massively different argument if they had a skin head kill Danny at the end of the movie for leaving the gang.
It has been nearly half a century since anything that was not tainted by (((their))) Marxism has made it to main stream movies.
Weird to think that that is the same fag director who made Batman and Robin
FOOKIN' SPOONHEADS
That movie was written buy McDonalds and various toy companies in response to the adult nature of the previous one and the corresponding uproar.
Look at the toys for Batman Returns, they look nothing like the stuff used in the movie. This is because toy companies made movies prior to the script even being released. Then when the movie was released it was full of very dark themes and pissed off parents with young children, despite it being PG-13.
So when they made Batman and Robin, they made the movie PG-13 (to get 8 year olds to want to see it) but made it a PG movie in 99% of the aspects. Then they worked with McDonalds and toy companies to cash in on toy sales, which dwarfed movie sales, and explains the crazy vehicles and suits.
Gotta agree with you there. Stranger is kinda degenerate though but still a good little mind fuck. Corse moon had the cuckoldry too but stranger goes full on orgy with it.
BRB got some commies to discorperate.
An ideal society frankly. Judicial corporal punishment works and it's just what we need to ease the pressure on our hefty prison population. And why indeed should just anyone be allowed to vote? Soldiers and sailors have demonstrated their commitment to the State with their bodies and lives. We should be so lucky as to have a future resembling that of Starship Troopers. While we're on the subject, thank God they left the thing with the father enlisting out of the movie, that whole thing was kinda cringe.
Will you be my water brother?
...
Reminder that Dukat did nothing wrong
Yes, but I think scotch works too right?
Anyone read this one? Job: A Comedy of Justice
One of my favorites.
>Corse moon had the cuckoldry too
Good thing is that it's explained and makes sense in that world. I mean, it's not some stupid weird fetish, but arises from the economy of the moon.
>but stranger goes full on orgy with it.
I'm still at the first chapters, so I haven't reached any point where there are orgies, but for now this books reminds me many things of Brave New World: if there are actual orgies, I won't be surprised.
You're an idiot. That would just allow a small group to buy out all private land to control the government or allow opportunists to cut up land to like minded people to create inflated voting blocs.
The book felt to me like there are three distinct phases. My favourite was the first.
>What is Sup Forums's opinion on the society portrayed in this book?
Post industrial military complex run amok. Pretty much "what if humanity becomes army ants?" the book
That's not a criticism, it's a good book, an interesting read, a description of a possible future where humanity's interests have shifted entirely to warfare (instead of only 90% to warfare), whether that's appealing or frightening is up to the reader.
sure im so stupid. stupid me.
we actually used this system in my country (the USA, which is better than you implicitly) for a long time and it worked fantastically. things actually only started to go downhill once we abolished this system. so back off ninja.
>Service guarantees citizenship
youtube.com
I agree wholeheartedly with what Heinlein proposes in Starship troopers.
>we actually used this system in my country
Yes that was in most of the US was uninhabited and Jews weren't deeply rooted in government.
>the USA, which is better than you implicitly
Don't take the flag for meaning I am a Korean. Memeflaggers are cancer.
>started to go downhill once we abolished this system.
That would be woman's rights and the influx of European Jews, and cultural Marxism, dumb dumb.
>stupid me.
This is true. You are a useful idiot. The land holder meme would allow hollywood hedonist liberal types to take advantage when they pool enough resources to buy land and thus buy votes thanks to your idiot poorly thought idea.
Same here
yawn. some of the problems you cite could be genuine problems, but there are any number of extremely simple, rudimentary legislative fixes to any of them and you know it. you can't possibly even think your own arguments make sense here. not even going to continue to seriously address any of these stupid remarks.
>Should only those who have served in the military (or volunteered to serve the state in some fashion) be allowed to vote?
Far more important than that is the the leader must have served in both branches of the military and rose in rank from the lowest to the highest in both.
>but there are any number of extremely simple, rudimentary legislative fixes to any of them and you know it
Funny, that the same BS answer commies give when you point out the flaws of socialism. Voting rights should be earned, not bought or inherited.
yeah right dude you've got to be kidding me if you don't think there are simple legislative ways to prevent the sort of behavior you detailed. lmfao it would just take a line of text in the bill, nothing more. shut up. you're just talking angry nonsense.
voting rights should not be "earned" IMO, but you do need a way to ensure that the people who are voting are intelligent enough and skilled enough in the real world to make the right decisions.
>yeah right dude you've got to be kidding me if you don't think there are simple legislative ways to prevent the sort of behavior you detailed
>Yeah right dude communism could totally work guys you just need to put more laws in and stuff.
Sure the first generation that enacts such regulations would put people in check that try to abuse the system but will the next generation do so? Will the one after that do the same? Look at liberals today trying to claim the founding fathers totally wrote the laws to allow spic invaders to plop in babies and leech off the government or wrote the 2nd amendment to apply to the military/hunting/ the current weapons of the era. If your proposal requires heavy regulation to keep in check and prevent abuse it should be overlooked. What advantages does your idea have over a standard litmus test or something as simple as a history exam that would prevent stupid people or foreigners from voting?
>but you do need a way to ensure that the people who are voting are intelligent enough and skilled enough
How does land ownership do that? Simply buying something or inheriting it does not prove intelligence. You need basic skills to buy a car and get a license but can you say there are no idiots on the roads?
No, you should only allow "citizens" to vote but citizenship isn't granted to you by land ownership. It could be military service, tests, or even paying tax. In your ethnostate military service isn't an issue because it won't be filled with poc pogs.
>Sure the first generation that enacts such regulations would put people in check that try to abuse the system but will the next generation do so? Will the one after that do the same?
this argument is crap since it essentially amounts to "government cannot be trusted to enforce the law".
i actually agree with that statement as there are obvious truths to it, but since it can be applied to LITERALLY ANYTHING it makes it a bunk argument the way you are trying to apply it.
>history exam
yeah intelligence tests or history exams are certainly possibilities but IMO, what i always think about, are the subjectivities of academics.
did the holocaust happen? what if i don't think it happened? i don't get to vote now?
was slavery a "white person thing"? clearly it wasn't as all other groups had slaves too, if i state that do i not get to vote?
if i say there are only two genders do i not get to vote??
i dunno, that's always been my problem with that solution.
>how does land ownership do that?
well it is true that "land" can be bought for fairly cheap, but past a certain point it is a measure of success in this world, which means you are far more likely to have some kind of basic understanding of our economic system and how to get ahead in it. you know, for example, there are aspects of being a business owner that make you implicitly realize certain things about economics. like the best example is probably "wow, if i get taxed out my ass, then i really can't open another business, and that means im providing less jobs to the community".
very simple stuff really, but when you're more economically successful you are more likely to see it from a first hand point of view.
of course you could use a measure different from simple landownership, i used that example mostly because its a simple meme that people understand and is closely associated with voting rights in the public consciousness. you could probably use simple monetary wealth or something if you wanted
well dude very unfair because you conveniently use our current political context against me when you talk about "letting jews vote" and then you use a hypothetical political context when you talk about your preferred method of military voting, which includes a white ethnostate.
i mean come on. be fair bro. we are having a practical discussion or a hypothetical one.
i think all of these discussions are pretty hypothetical, so i tend to think of them in those terms but you're coming out and saying "blah blah blah your way would let jews vote but my way wouldnt let poc vote!"
another issue is that people get out of the military and have massive head issues. i wouldn't want them determining my future, personally.
i am one of the people who has zero respect for military. they are fucking psychopaths and sociopaths. they're people seeking validation from the world around them. everyone i've ever known who has joined the military has been a fucking rapist, a psycho, or someone just looking to murder people without going to prison for it. i wouldn't let people like that decide my future personally and i don't give a fuck about the nonPC aspect of my point of view.
and it's also a spanish name.
yes, i am well aware, is there some kind of point? is this supposed to be insightful or enlightening somehow, commie?
Yeah no. I don't want only people brainwashed enough to serve in sand nigger land doing God knows what without questioning why voting. I know you faggots like to run around playing nazi but let's get real...
right winders probably didnt understand the irony of the film
If they were the only ones that could vote or hold office would we even be in sandniggeristan?
lmfao you are the only other sensible person in this thread other than myself IMO.
military men are grunts and fucking stupid as all hell. you want to talk about people who make stupid life decisions? talk about military men. they LITERALLY sign up to go off and get shot at for bankers wars. fucking retarded man. and they leave grieving families behind, for what? so george bush, barack obama and hillary clinton can play their part in installing a rothschild owned bank in some middle eastern shithole?
it is the reality that saddam hussien was not aggressive towards us, but we sure as shit bombed the fuck out of him and installed a rothschild central bank in his nation (one of the last holdouts in the world not to have one).
military men = the dumbest of the dumb and should not be in charge of our national future. if anything they should be stripped of the right to vote because they've already demonstrated their inability to make proper positive decisions for themselves
pic very related
>actually i am really right wing but i think that people who serve in the military are psychopaths
Yeah and your dad works at Nintendo, huh?
i dont get it, want to explain that one for me?
Buenos Aires was an inside job
>Should only those who have served in the military (or volunteered to serve the state in some fashion) be allowed to vote?
Yes
You have to be at least 18 to post here.
kek
giant bugs cant shoot molten plasma
i am still 100% not following
The idea is that only those that are invested in the nation can vote, not shaniqua and her 5 kids on welfare.
>It was supposed to be a leftist propaganda piece
FTFY
Dizzy best girl
Yes I think it's a good system, and that there should be options for those that aren't fit for the military. Everyone who want to serve their country should be able to and rewarded for it. For women for example it could be to have atleast five children that she and her husband raise with their own money without gibs. For dyels and handicaped people there should also be options. Obviously people doing non-dangerous jobs should serve for a longer time that people in the military for example. Owning shit should never count, only personal work and effort.
Its not, the movie adaptation was
Only 10% made it through training though
Jewish shill detected
For the actual infantry shit
But there were other jobs like lab monkey that even quadriplegics could do