German newspaper about S-400

With the planned purchase of the Russian air defense system, the NATO country of Turkey demonstratively demonstrates that it no longer needs to rely on American armaments and alliance. This political defiance, on the other hand, only makes sense if the product is militarily capable. The modernized S-400 mobile system - which is actually a whole group of launchers - is considered to be extremely efficient because it can simultaneously capture and control the most diverse airspace and air-targets: fighter jets, high-flying reconnaissance aircraft such as Awacs, ballistic missiles, cruise ships, drones, even strategic stealth bombers. Up to 36 targets are recorded simultaneously, with a range of about 400 kilometers and an altitude of 27 kilometers. The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia would thus be able to defend itself against the great rival Iran.

"This system has proven its superiority to all others in the world, it is certainly the best air defense system available,", says Wolfgang Richter, expert on armaments at the Stiftung Wissenschaft und Politik in Berlin, who explains the Russian air defense system "as one of the top products on the international market is a project by which Turkey radically improves its ability to provide air defense." It is "certainly incomparable better than the American patriot system that Germany has," says Richter. "And it seems to be cost-effective in comparison with American systems."

sueddeutsche.de/politik/ruestung-begehrte-ware-aus-russland-1.3702343

Meanwhile good goy Poland buys useless and technologically backward Patriot systems for fucking 8 bln dollar. We could have 5x more of S-400 systems for this price.

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>thinking jewmany made a smart decision
>in the past 120 years
>at all
sage in all fields bois
also press f to poop in op's mouth and call him a faggot

Süddeutsche Zeitung is the biggest daily newspaper in Germany, so they surely know what they write about

How hard can it be to develop a better air defense system? I bet the same newspaper is bitching about German weapon exports in another article of the same paper.
Germans really don't know what they want. Either we want to be independent of America's military umbrella or we want to be a military power with it's own industry and development.

>How hard can it be to develop a better air defense system?

Murricans are so dumb nowadays that they were even unable to develop an active tank protection system and had to buy it from Israel

You never know what goes on behind the scenes with these kind of deals. Especially between the US and Israel.
I've heard statements that Germany actually gets something out of these free U-Boot we send to Israel, namely some tech that Israel uses to make them into fit for SLBM.
I'd love to work on these kind of projects. It's probably a lot of signal analysis for the radar part and then some finely tuned kinematics for the steering of the rocket. Right up my alley.

Poland should keep demanding reparations from Germany and keep demanding every now and then that Turkey joins the EU, just to fuck with the Krauts.

>krautchan.net/int/thread-42258249.html
hello fellow crossposting faggot

also, russia and turkey are discussing partial mutual production and sharing technology of s-400's

the west (usa, nato) never shares its military tech with so-called allies

>"This system has proven its superiority to all others in the world, it is certainly the best air defense system available,", says Wolfgang Richter, expert on armaments at the Stiftung Wissenschaft
Why did I read Stiftung Warentest there?

lol me too

best ally

stop your spicposting

But can it shoot down an F-22 or F-35? That's really all that matters.

sure, if the military using them is able to intercept and decipher useful information so S400s could be setup in the perfect places to catch the F22 alone with no growler (or similar ewar aircraft) escort and its weapons bays or landing gear doors open
and if the F22 pilot ignored his missile warning equipment

So Russians sold Turkey their newest A-A systems?
So they can shoot more Russian jets and get putin even more butthurt about it?

Kek

No Turkey signed an agreement and paid a deposit but now are trying to get Russia to give them technology. You've got that troglodyte Mevlut Cavusoglu saying Turkey might pull out if Russia doesn't agree to it.

Of course.

>thinks export AAs didn't have measures put in place to prevent it from shooting russian jets
topkek.

>Meanwhile good goy Poland buys useless and technologically backward Patriot systems for fucking 8 bln dollar.

liek this if you laff every time

Well, a lot of countries shared technology with Turkey: Korea, Israel, Germany, China and so on.
For example, they produce licensed copy of Korean K2 Black Panther. It take them 7 years to produce 4 prototypes, and still at 70% it made from foreign parts.

bomb doors malfunctioned in the unclean configuration. nato had control over the routes which in their infinite wisdom had been the exact same path for two weeks. aircraft was flying low altitude during the day.

just sayin
a fucking Sup Forumstard could have hit it

those strike fighters so not constitute any large part of the us airofrce therefore it is definatly not all that matters

Granted, the Nighthawk is an early generation stealth aircraft, but it's also true that we used an S-125-equivalent AAA, which was slightly modified by the crew in the field. Our SAMs were already outdated as fuck at the time, so imagine what we could have done with something that was as contemporary and as advanced back then as the S-400 is now.
So yeah, between the F22 and the S-400, my money is on the Russians.

>hurr durr, you didn't really shoot our aircraft down, it wasn't a fair example because not everything went 100% according to the plan we set up, where no one is shooting at it with missiles or detects it with sophisticated radar. It was also designed to be stealthy over sand nigger lands, when bombing ISIS faggots who can't even detect the location of the sun in a cloudless day, so duh you shot it down. But if the previous conditions were all met , no way in hell you would of shot it down, like I swear. You gotta test the airplane's capabilities when everything goes according to OUR plan, god forbid if an actual war the enemy does something unpredictable.
retard

Implying america's 51st state have a choice
And unlike all those "best friends of America" in Baltics and Easter Europe you actually have money to give them.

Actually Russians already have S-500 or at least are going to have it already developed and produced within next 2 years as far as i know.

It did wonder me however how in the world russians decided to sell them s-400. Not so long ago turks shot down russian plane in Syria if i remember well. I belive this is some kind of a bigger deal.

Even a fucking S-200 can potentially shoot down a F-35. There are virtually no countermeasures against S-400s. Russians are extremely good at missile tech.

Russia tipped Erdogan off about the coup the CIA was planning against him. They've been allies ever since.

im not trying to take nothing away from you on the downing of the F117. just making the point that everything operationally important to compliment that aircraft in mission planning was ignored.
they are slow as shit. literally meant to penetrate IADS at night with the element of surprise on their side to take out critical air defense command and control hubs basically kicking in the door for other aircraft.
then nato in this case takes the wheel and ignores everything thats important to compliment the aircraft in the mission planning such they were flying low altitude daytime missions over the same route again and again.
fucking retards

Americans are not used to fighting people whose brains actually work.
I always enjoy hearing our veterans talk about how the dumbasses kept dropping millions of dollars worth of ordinance on microwaves, heated barrels of water, plastic tanks, and cardboard infantry haha, bragging how they destroyed "hundreds" of vehicles and killed 10,000 Serbian troops. Turns out it's more like 10 tanks and 20 APCs.
They did destroy our radarless MiGs, though, that they did.

its not hurr durr leaf. its the truth of what happened. had it been another way id say it. but it wasnt. and nobody else said it.
also your country spends 18 billion a year on defense and have something like 80 thousand troops. i dont expect you to understand

Yes. Turks allowed the US to con them into shooting down Syrian plane, pilot dead.
Then the US tried to assassinate Erdogan.
Putin warned him.
Huge purge if Turkey military, judiciary, and other collaborators.
Turkey now drawn into Astana peace process to deconfliction Syria.
Turkey also agreeing to turkstream gas project.
Turkey cooperating with Silk Road 2.0 project.
Geo-politics. It's the Great Game.,

There's no shame in admitting your military is not efficient. Ours isn't either. As long as it can still get the job done, there is no need for everything to always be perfect and work without a hitch.
Sometimes, you just screw up, or fall behind in tech, no matter how many billions you sink into military budgets. That's just the way things are.

No. The Nighthawk was shot down during the night. So, right off the bat, you are lying.

Canadian defence budget $18 billion
Soros play money to infiltrate Sup Forums .... $18 billion..
Hmmm

...

>hahaha you only destroyed our entire military capability and made our country a virtual no fly zone but at least you didn't get the 30 soviet era tanks we had in storage xDDDDDDd america BTFO

It's always funny hearing Serbs think they won that war because they put tarps over some trucks

The point is that you didn't destroy our military capability, like at all. I don't know what the fuck you read there, but I didn't say that we won either. I just said that we put up a far more efficient fight than USA has gotten used to in the course of its farmer bombing campaigns.

NO WAY THE RUSSIANS WOULD BACKDOOR THEIR OWN SYSTEM SO THEY CAN TURN THEM OFF IN TIME OF WAR, COMRADE

Yeah even if Turkey managed to convince Russia to share technology the Turks couldn't use it. They'd figure out the S400 just in time to buy the S1200 from you. But still there is not technology sharing agreement, Turkey is so fucking idiotic they paid you a down payment then threatened to withdraw if you don't share technology. If they actually pull out like retards it means essentially Turkey paid you to tell them, "Cyak blyat idia nahui"

Yeah you guys used some really effective decoys. It's actually really impressive how they used the simplest shit to trick multi-million dollar sensors.

>you didn't destroy our military capability
Then why did you surrender so quickly?

>capitulated in two months
>WE R DA EFFICIENT FIGHTERS

Because you started double-tapping civilian trains, bridges, factories, TV stations, power plants and markets.

27 March 1999
8:15 pm
Unknown to NATO, Yugoslav air defenses operators had found they could detect F-117s with their obsolete Soviet radars after some modifications. In 2005, Colonel Zoltán Dani confirmed this in an interview, suggesting that those modifications involved using long wavelengths, which allowed them to detect the aircraft when the wheel well or bomb bay doors were open. In addition, the Serbs had also intercepted and deciphered some NATO communications, and thus were able to deploy their anti-air batteries at positions best suited to intercept NATO planes.
It probably is dark or twilight at 8:15 27 of march in serbia so you may have me on that.

Then it sounds like your military capability was destroyed, or severely degraded.

Obvious CIA/NATO/Western plot against innocent Serb people. Serbs have 0 casualties the entire time, all tanks and bridges were decoys, and all deaths were civilians. Nothing can defeat strong Serbian army full of 160 IQ geniuses. Actually NATO lost that war. Remember we shoot down F117! Never forget Serb superiority!

I said discussing goes on, not agreed.

Cause you expanded the ROE and started raping civilian infrastructure. Bridges, hospitals, schools, residential areas wiped off the map, factories, TV stations. It was a display of true butthurt.
That was impossible for such a small country to withstand any longer.
Milosevich was literally told that Belgrade would be flat if we didn't surrender.
Good to see you are proud of your glorious victory, though.

The original ultimatum also wanted us to let NATO troops into our whole country, by the way. Instead, we lost Kosovo. And to this day, this piece of shit protectorate struggles to remotely resemble a functional state.
Guess we did pretty good for a third world banana state.

>Süddeutsche Zeitung is the biggest daily newspaper in Germany, so they surely know what they write about

Hum, no. Bild is the "biggest" German newspaper, at least it has the most readers. Also the quality of Sueddeutsche articles has a huge variance and you get everything from stupid 22 year old communists lamenting about feminism and refugees to real journalists. Nevertheless I prefer the FAZ because they have more conservative views and try to be classy.

>your

American education

>sounds like your military capability was destroyed

The US started a supposedly humanitarian intervention on Kosovo exclusively to prevent Albanian deaths, with no UN mandate.

In the end, they killed more Albanian civilians in bombing than Serbs did, and polluted the whole area with DU.

Even better, their high moral ground intervention narrative fell to tatters once they realized Kosovo is no desert where their air supremacy reigns supreme, and Serbs are no sandniggers unaccustomed to war.

So, precisely because they couldn't expell Serb military from Kosovo through bombing campaign, the NATO forces started a campaign of terror, logistical and strategic bombing in mainland Serbia, to break the fighting will and spirit.

Parallel to that, you funded with briefcases full of US dollars out of US Budapest Embassy the "Serbian" "opposition", in reality CIA operatives like CANVAS Otpor Srđa Popović and Serb fifth column like Đinđić, Drašković and Koštunica.

Leading to Serb home front collapsing and a colour revolution following suit.

Nice memeing, but it doesn't serve any tangible purpose.
I never stated any kind of superiority.
The whole point of my posts here is simple: if the little Serb was able to put up a fight with his dated arsenal, the Russian would fuck your shit up.

That seems comprehensive enough. Let's hope Americans can compute.

>implying the S-400 will be useful, ever
it doesn't matter what it could shoot down, because in all likelihood the only scenario in which the S-400 would be used is nuclear war.

that is the proper word and spelling for that sentence

your

not you're

I'm fine with that, and these are interesting points.

Dude, look at my flag.

I wasn't pointing to your "spelling" (grammar, in reality).

>Russia gibs me dat tech plz
>No
>We'll keep discussing it
You'll never get the technology Turk. They don't hand that shit over to nations they like so they sure as shit aren't handing it to a NATO member.

i wasn't the one that made that post. just thought you being from Serbia may not know which one is used where. i speak the fucking language and did not know the difference till i was about 20 so no disrespect intended.
far as shooting down that plane goes your people found a way using outdated russian shit to down what was at the time one of the worlds most stealthiest aircraft.
so again, not trying to take anything away. just trying to put words to truth.

I have pondered if a return to older models of aircraft makes sense with the advance of these technologies. How much quicker to produce/more cost effective would a ww2 eraish bomber be vs a modern one/ anti-air system. Could a few hundred bombers/fighters overwhelm modern military aircraft/anit air ? I mean how fucking much does a sidewinder or one of those missiles cost. For sure more loss of life though.

>could it overwhelm

no

modern SAMs can handle hundreds of targets at once, IE only very-high tier aircraft or strategic missiles really have a chance.

>demonstratively demonstrates
Am I supposed to take this seriously?

75% of all faz.net articles between 01.06.2017 and 15.10.2017 can be considered biased. For süddeutsche.de it goes to 87%, zeit.de manages to produce an astonishing 96% of biased articles, where the non biased articles were about food and weather. And biased in this context doesn't mean ideologically, but the title, the first paragraph and the use of quotation marks being misleading and inconsistent in themselves. Also literally all articles in those three online news papers about the AfD where biased and clearly anti AfD with about 33% managing to display Godwins law in the first half of the articles. Really, stop reading any of those, stop giving them clicks and harass the authors till they commit suicide. The whole study will be published in two too three months

I get that many would be shot down but how long does it take/cost to make a sam vs old school bomber ?

I don't give them clicks. I grab their RSS feed and archive everything I want to read before I read it.

But how about radar tech? You need to lock on to the target first before your missiles can kill it.

>demonstratively demonstrates

>archive everything I want to read before I read it.
Very good. But from a cognitive psychological pov I must say that ignoring them completely would be better. Get your information from the source.

Not surprising the (((german mainstream))) got their licence after ww2 from the all-lies war criminal and only after signing certain documents how they have to report - always pro america, always anti-russia, always pro nwo, eu, euro, etc etc. They're all the same filth infiltrated by parteibonzen.

Actual pol on Sup Forums again its a good sign.

Geopolitics on Russia's frontier seem to stem from several factors. The Khazars (Jewish Slavs/Russians/Eurasians) ever since being defeated by the Orthodox Russian faction they seek to get back their their Khazarian land and in turn the rest of Russia. Another factor tends to be the German establishment still seeks Lebensraum and otherwise perceives Russia as a threat.

Both Jewish Slavs (Russians, Poles etc.) and Germans came to the US over time and both seem to have found Russia as a common thread. For the USA imperialism and business as usual except that its more forced on them than not.

Poland (or the Polish establishment) has picked the US side and as such being part of NATO to be equipped by NATO. NATO tends to pressure nations into buying their equipment. Buying Non-NATO equipment calls for political maneuvering.

not completely true. There have been news paper analyses done of the bias in the cold war regarding UDSSR vs. US and only between 5 and 10% have been identified as biased

(pic related)

TLDR

NATO gets S-400
NATO develops counter measures.

>Poland (or the Polish establishment) has picked the US side and as
Wasnt that shot by an S-200? I recall an S-200

What magical technology exist to distinguish that

Buy 1000 drones (cheap ones,not them Predator shit) fit a bomb in each one. Send them in to where the S-400's are. S400's either fire at them or risk being blown up. Use up all the S-400's blowing up cheap shit. Buy more drones and repeat till all the S-400's are gone then send in your planes to roach-bomb the motel.

Beats my idea. You just saved lots of lives.