OK Sup Forums it's time to settle this once and for good

OK Sup Forums it's time to settle this once and for good.

Please tell me exactly why you guys hate Muslims, and please avoid the blatant lies and irony and clichés like "goatfuckers" and such, please be honest, serious, for once in your lives, and tell me what you know about islam and why you hate it.

I don't want to convert you, I know I can't, and we Muslims have no power and no means for that today, if anything I just want you guys to know exactly what Islam is and to stop hating it. I'm not talking about the behaviour of Muslims either (which is pretty pathetic, I admit, and before anybody asks, no, I don't think islam commands terorrism, and I don't mean that in a liberal, Tariq Ramadan-esque way, I mean it in a strict, integrist way and I can support it with proof and arguments, textual arguments), I'm talking specifically about the dogma and doctrine.

I can answer all the cliches (we can start with "Muhammad was a pedophile", but you'll have to promise to be open-minded and to read the complete argument - and no, I won't justify pedophilia, Aisha was, based on what I can argue, much older than 6 or 9 years old, she was a late adolescent, able to consent to marriage and to procreate.)

I'm hoping we can have an honest discussion and be real about what really is islam and to stop the hatred toward my community. I'm sure we can have this discussion here because what WE hate about the West, you guys hate it too, most likely there won't be any problems about that.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=NejPzdhDISU,
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanged,_drawn_and_quartered
quran.com/24/33
sunnah.com/bukhari/89/10
quran.com/9/29
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Sharia law is incompatible with the notion of Common law, unless the 2 are the same.
I don't want to live under shria, and i don't want my country subverted to accept it.
sage

Personally i don't hate all Muslims, just most Sunnis and all Salafists/Wahhabists
Also i wouldn't trust any Muslim in the west to not have an agenda, same for most foreigners as well

I consider the majority of Sunnis to be unintentionally acting as kike puppets while the Saudi family is openly controlled by Israel

>he still hasn't figured it out

I have a problem regarding how horrible muslims are to non muslims in muslim majority countries. Why do you keep killing all the hindus paki chan? And then you guys come to the US/UK and talk about discrimination. Fuck off.

Well why don't you explain the concept of abrogation, where earlier verses are cancelled out by later verses, the earlier being peaceful where as the later being violent. Not to mention that what kind of god would need to cancel out what he says and replace it with something else, if your god is truly all knowing then he wouldn't to abrogate anything, unless the quran was made by a human

>Sharia law is incompatible with the notion of Common law, unless the 2 are the same.
No they're no the same.
Sharia law is based on texts, and study of other ancient texts to determine what is "natural law", but most of it is based on texts which constitute statute law (the Quran and the Sunna).
Common law is based on customs and precedent court decisions.

Let me be clear: the Sharia IS incompatible with the West, and the presence of Muslims in the West is theoretically impossible and heretical. But I believe that the modern "Muslim" countries are no more muslim than the West, and that the Muslim nowadays has to resign to not being able to live his faith fully (basically to live in a real islamic state) and to just do the "maximum". And it is possible to do the maximum while living in the West, and even more possible than while living in so-called "Muslim countries", and that does not necessarily entail proselytism, or trying to subdue the Western cultures, try to change them, etc.

But I would like to know WHY you don't want to live under Sharia law, what part of it exactly don't you like and do you have arguments against it except for "this is not my culture", which is natural but not an argument since everybody basically love his culture and traditions simply because they are his.

I agree with you concerning Salafists and Wahhabis, but why do you include all Sunnis?
And don't you think Shia Muslims have an agenda as well?

Personally I don't think the MASS of Sunni Muslims have an agenda and I don't think there is a Muslim Sunni "force" anywhere, the Wahhabis are clearly Israeli puppets. I think the most organized Sunni Muslims can get nowadays is terrorist groups, which you have to say is pretty pathetic, look at what happens in France and Europe in general, anybody can just take a gun and shoot people random people in the street, and it accomplished absolutely nothing.

Most of my problems are with Islam but considering muslims I guess my main problem is how a lot of them (not all of them) can't take a joke or critisism of their religion, I guess that is something I really despise about most of them (again not all of them)

>I have a problem regarding how horrible muslims are to non muslims in muslim majority countries. Why do you keep killing all the hindus paki chan?
Read all of my first message.
> I'm not talking about the behaviour of Muslims either (which is pretty pathetic, I admit
And yes, that includes whining about discrimination, I find that pathetic and stupid, and I find it inappropriate to ask Western countries for "accomodations" or whatever. It's hypocritical, our religion, if applied in its entirety, is hugely discriminatory against non-Muslims (in fact, only the Jews and Christians (and other monotheists like the Zoroastrians) are allowed to live as societies and strive, all polytheistic and atheist societies have to be fought by the sword and subdues - this is of course in theory, and does not mean that every Muslim has the mandate to take a sword himself and put it to the throat of every Atheist and command him to submit or die, this is ridiculous), so I find it offensive to reason and common sense that Muslims whine about "discrimination".

>Well why don't you explain the concept of abrogation, where earlier verses are cancelled out by later verses, the earlier being peaceful where as the later being violent.
This is because the Prophet was sent with a message: Tawhid (monotheism, only One God), and made sure that he explained it peacefully to the Quraysh tribe for twelve years, and gather all the sincere people around him to form a counter-society and community to be able to protect the message and the cult. Once this was done, verses about holy war have been revealed to forcefully convert societies to turn them Muslim, because Islam is the only cult and perfect law for humans to live under, and because God does not tolerate the cult of any other idols, and obviously everybody will not agree to it because of their own interests and what not, and therefore has to be propagated by the sword. (1/2)

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Look Mohammed, we just don't want you in our countries, it's not worth the values clash that will inevitably happen. You can go do your thing in the Islamic world. I know we have all the stupid wars displacing Muslims, but you have to understand that the jews have colonized us. Most of us don't want these wars either.Don't take it personally.

Because
1) It's heresy
2) Its followers are degenerates.
3) Islamic law is not conducive to a libertarian society.

My friends fled here from Lebanon in the 70s

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I don't hate you. I just want you and your sand religion to stay in the desert where sand people belong.

>I agree with you concerning Salafists and Wahhabis, but why do you include all Sunnis?
They are complicit in collaborating with the Saudis/Salafists

>And don't you think Shia Muslims have an agenda as well?
I did say "Also i wouldn't trust any Muslim in the west to not have an agenda, same for most foreigners as well"
Also i am less concerned with their political agenda

>Personally I don't think the MASS of Sunni Muslims have an agenda
Neither do i, but they are still "be unintentionally acting as kike puppets" as i said, also too easy for a lot of them to be converted to Salafism

>I think the most organized Sunni Muslims can get nowadays is terrorist groups, which you have to say is pretty pathetic
Arab nationalist leaders being removed and Arab Nationalists/Baathists being associated with terrorist groups and non-PC movements has certainly done a lot of damage
Saddam and Gaddafi did have some interesting political ideals for Sunnis

I have nothing against muslims, as long as they stay in their countries and do their thing without coming into my country and fucking everyones day up.

>List the reasons you hate muslims
>Without listing why everyone hates muslims
Fuck you sand niggers, but if it makes you feel any better, I hate all abrahamic sandstone religions.

Again that is my problem with Islam, it is the fact that the ideology teaches to force people into submission and to convert to Islam. If Islam was truly the best ideology in the world, you wouldn't need to force anyone into it, given enough time people will automatically convert. But the fact that you would have to force people shows that your ideology is not perfect. This is my problem with Islam

I don't hate you, I just hate you in my country. Do whatever goat fucking bullshit you feel like in YOUR country. Stone your women, chuck gays off rooftops, I don't give a fuck. Just don't come around where I live with your gobbledygook language, stank ass food, and stupid women dressed like ghosts.

(2/2) And of course you're right, and the first generation of "force converts" will necessarily be hypocrites, but not only will they have a chance to really consider the truth of Islam under a Muslim society (whereas their interest and passions would prevent them from doing so in a Pagan society), but Muslims taking control of their society means that their children will be educated in the Islamic law and will live perfect lives as Muslims.

This is all in theory of course. But this is basically the rationale behind Jihad.

>Not to mention that what kind of god would need to cancel out what he says and replace it with something else
A "message" in and of itself has to have the means to impose itself, and the story of the Prophet, his mission, was a "consolidation" of the practical means of establishing and protecting the message forever. It was gradual, it was logical, it was progressive, and when you see the globality of it, how one man started by converting his wife and 20 years later united Arabia for the first time in its history, and his successors conquering huge territories in the spans of 5 to 10 years, you can only admire the feat.

If God gave you the Truth and perfect message right here and now, would you know what to do with it? Do you think people would just accept it? Of course not, and it will be lost forever. But the Quran has been preserved and Islam has been preserved due to that mission, the same way part of Christianity and Judaism were preserved due to their prophets' missions, because God knows not only the Truth, but the practical and strategical way to establish it on Earth and make it strive.

>Most of my problems are with Islam but considering muslims I guess my main problem is how a lot of them (not all of them) can't take a joke or critisism of their religion
I already said I don't want to talk about Muslims, I want to talk about Islam. I know and I admit that Muslims are a chore to bear, believe me.

fuck your propaganda, Muslims are retard level iq, inbreeding, murdering rapists.

Fuck you, fuck your goat wife, and fuck your mother

>B-b-but most Muslims aren't even that Muslim!

The fact that this is a go to argument for you faggots would end the discussion immediately if it were at all reasonable.

>I don't want to convert you, I know I can't, and we Muslims have no power and no means for that today,
Uhh, I'm gonna go ahead and guess it has something to do with the fact that the way you worded that sentence implies you can and would forcibly convert people if you had the means

>based on what I can argue, much older than 6 or 9 years old, she was a late adolescent, able to consent to marriage and to procreate
pic absolutely fucking related

There will be another "once and for all" thread tomorrow; and the day after that; and the day after that; etc. I will wait for those.

You've had it explained to you many, many times; it refutes who you are, so you can't accept it. It's like an inoperable tumor, only you're the tumor.

By analogy, I don't hate skunks, I just don't want them in my house, they belong in nature (Middle East). Pointless debating how they are furry and don't smell that bad. Europeans can trade and exchange ideas and things, but don't come and wreak our countries. If what you say was remotely true, your countries would be A+ and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

>Please tell me exactly why you guys hate Muslims, and please avoid the blatant lies and irony and clichés like "goatfuckers" and such, please be honest, serious, for once in your lives, and tell me what you know about islam and why you hate it.


You have too many neighborhoods here. Imagine if in Islamabad or Karachi there were areas that had a bunch of French people where the women wore short shorts despite the expected dress standards in Pakistan, most of the French people don't work in the neighborhood having one of the highest crime rates in Pakistan and French activists in Pakistan talk about how Muslims are oppressing Christians Despite Christians suicide attacking Muslims in large parts of the Muslim world.


This is why. Nobody gives a fuck about the religious aspects really. People in the west don't give a fuck about Hindus and Buddhism. You're hated because you blow shit up in our countries and then lecture us about how we're treating you bad in the neighborhoods that used to be ours.

>You can go do your thing in the Islamic world.
Maybe if you let us do it? This is the most hypocritical thing I've ever heard: I WISH we could, but you guys vote for the same politicians that manipulate our elites IN OUR OWN COUNTRIES, and put in the head of our states your puppets which only serve your interests. Everywhere in the "Muslim" world there are Western puppets, do you really think our religion is only about prayer and ramadan? Our religion is a State religion, it has laws, civil laws, penal laws, commercial laws, moral laws, family, divorce, successions, crimes, contracts, commerce. Let us do our thing, let's sign a peace treaty but let us choose our own leaders and don't stir up shit in our countries with their "Jasmin revolutions" and what not, and stop voting for the politicians that do this. This is the most hypocritical thing I've ever heard, honestly.

>but you have to understand that the jews have colonized us.
Does a Jew put a gun in your head when you guys vote? Stir up shit in your countries, take the arms, do something, anything. But the reality is that you don't because this system suits you, it gives you what you need, "freedom", consumption, drugs (all kinds: entertainment, food, electronics, etc.), and the last thing you want is to destroy it.

Because Muslims are bloodthirsty barbarians who are literally bent on the destruction of civilization itself in order to regress every surviving human to tribal savagery circa 1400 years ago when a goat fucking pedophile convinced through murder and terrorism the other goat fucking pedophiles to worship his moon god instead of theirs.

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The problem with this response is that how would I know if it was actually a god or a human that actually changed the message. Also yes god updates his message by sending new prophets, but it doesn't make sense to cancel verses and replace them all in the same, in that case why keep the verses that have been abrogated? Get rid of them and keep the updated verses. Also about fact that islam has been perserved I have link that brings an interesting argument to that if you are willing to watch youtube.com/watch?v=NejPzdhDISU, in a nutshell basically hadiths have shown that there used to be so many versions of the quran. as well as chapters missing and top quran recitiers dying in battle, not to mention that when the quran was recited it was during an oral culture, where everyone memorized it, then later written down. So the verses are coming from memory not written down as soon as it was told. Although this is a nutshell I recommend to watch the video because my lame summary of it doesn't do it justice

They don't have skunk in Australia. Only poisonous platypus.

Death to each and every muslim. You are wicked.

>>I agree with you concerning Salafists and Wahhabis, but why do you include all Sunnis?
>They are complicit in collaborating with the Saudis/Salafists

How? They are just manipulated. The mass of Sunni Muslims are sheep. What's the authority representing Sunni Muslims that is collaborating with the Saudis?

I honestly believe that the mass of Sunni Muslims just want to have good lives with decent homes and not starve and have stable families to live happily with them. If it were otherwise, I swear on God that I would say it, I'm an anonymous on a japanese cartoon board, I don't see what I would benefit by lying.

>also too easy for a lot of them to be converted to Salafism
Maybe stop having relations with Saudi Arabia and giving them all that money what do you think?

Friend I said list the reason you have ISLAM, I know the reasons you guys hate Muslims and I understand most of them, this is not up for debate.

>If Islam was truly the best ideology in the world, you wouldn't need to force anyone into it
Because people do not accept what is good for them and society and you know this, they are selfish and only care about their interest, why is there a police, why is there crime, why are there laws, why are there courts, why are there armies? So you have to submit to the state and pay ridiculous amounts of taxes and accept the violence of the police and unfair laws, but Islam does not have a legitimacy to do the same? Pretty random if you ask me.
And don't talk to me about democracy and how people chose their leaders and therefore these societies are based on the consent of everybody, let's be adult here.

have been an enemy of europe for almost as long as the jews. Are also currently invading at the behest of jews. Other than that dont give a shit. They can fuck goats in their arab shitholes for all I care

I don't hate all Muslims, since I don't know all Muslims. I hate Islam though, and it seems that most Muslims very strongly believe in it.

Islam is just a blatant plagerism of Jewish and Christian texts/myths with more violence and craziness doctrines. Your cherished Prophet was a brutal warlord who killed, enslaved, and raped people. You go around parading him as the ideal human to look up. You murder people for "defaming" him, thus proving our point about his example being that of violence and barbarism. This irony seems to be lost on you.

I would have no problem with you mongrels if you just stuck to your countries and kept your retarded beliefs there. But you want to spread your retarded religion to the ends of the earth. It's like a virus, and now I feel compelled to against it. I don't want it to infect my society.

>How? They are just manipulated. The mass of Sunni Muslims are sheep
Unintentionally does not negate them from being complicit, individually if they are actually opposed to Salafism/Wahhabism and the Saudis/Israel then they are somewhat more acceptable
>What's the authority representing Sunni Muslims that is collaborating with the Saudis?
Pro-Salafist Imams and the governments of most Sunni nations
>Maybe stop having relations with Saudi Arabia and giving them all that money what do you think?
Problem is that Saudi Arabia has now largely spread it throughout Pakistan, Afghanistan and even more through the gulf countries

Countries always try to subvert other countries based on their own interests. This isn't something that western countries only due to Muslim countries, we're just the best at it because of technological superiority. If anything what you guys have is nothing compared to what goes on in Africa

At the end of the day the Muslim Arabs could have chosen to unite under Nasser they could have a Russia tier powerful state but they chose their kings and tribes over him and got fucked.

This is the nth time I see this thread. Are you getting paid or just a fanatic? Or both?

The reason islam sucks is because it considers science to be heresy - looking up 'the incoherence of the philosophers' explains everything.

Keeping a place in order upholding the rules are not the same as forcing someone into an ideology, you have army for country defense and you have police for civil defense. The army and the police does not force the citizens into any particular ideology, just enforces the rules, and depending on the country the rules may not be justified either (i.e death because you leave islam), government should seperation of church and state. People should be forced not to hurt each other physically or damage property and etc. through laws. However considering ideology and opinions, no one should be forced into one because if otherwise that would be dictatorship and fascism. That is the difference between forcing someone to convert to an ideology and forcing someone to not rob a bank and what not. You are persucuting someone for what they have in their head (opinion, religion or ideas), however people should be jailed for what physical harm they do. Conflating police and army with forcing people into an ideology does justify forcing people into an ideology

Making us crusades. About to make us crusades again. So shit they got Buddhists to start a genocide.

>At the end of the day the Muslim Arabs could have chosen to unite under Nasser
Nasser fucked over this by being way too imperialist/dominating over Syria when they became a united arab republic and no other states wanted to join after seeing what happened

Personality clashes and the Shia/Sunni conflict also prevented any Baathist leader from creating a united republic also since Saddam and Assad could not get along

Overall a huge amount of wasted potential and a lot of it can initially be blamed on Egypt

>Uhh, I'm gonna go ahead and guess it has something to do with the fact that the way you worded that sentence implies you can and would forcibly convert people if you had the means
Of course I would, I'm not a hypocrite, I'm not here to hide anything.

Do you wanna talk about it openly and sincerely or are you just gonna assume that I'm here to hide something in which case there is no point talking. Do you feel like I'm doing taqiyya right now based on my posts?

>The problem with this response is that how would I know if it was actually a god or a human that actually changed the message.
You wouldn't. If you did, there would be no need for Jihad. Only then, in a Muslim country, where you would be a hypocrite, would you ponder about the religion, read texts, delve in it for years and discover that it is the truth, that there is nothing shocking about it, that the moral laws create stable families and societies, that there is no excess and no underpunishing of anything, etc., and the more time passes, the more you have proof, how the message was preserved when countless people pretended to be prophets and were forgotten in the matter of months, and you'll discover that all of that cannot be simple chance, that is it much more than a "sect which has succeeded".

>in that case why keep the verses that have been abrogated?
For the purpose of history and admiring the progression and establishing of the message, its consolidation and its protection, its foundation of a stable society, as further proof that it is the Truth for those who think.

>in a nutshell basically hadiths have shown that there used to be so many versions of the quran.
But you do know that the books of Hadith are full of invented stories, no? Most scientists say that the Quran has been well preserved, that the Quran that we have today is the same as the one at the death of the Prophet, just in the form of a codex and different order.

>Of course I would, I'm not a hypocrite, I'm not here to hide anything.
Well then you have your answer you fucking moron.

Every politician is co-opted by the kikes my dude. 90% of the things you hate about the west are also due to kikes.

>Does a Jew put a gun in your head when you guys vote?
you literally can't get elected without whoring out to jewish donors. also if you go against the Jewish narrative the jewish media will destroy your career and your life.

Because not eating pork and kneeling down a couple of times a day doesn't make you a virtuous person. There's really no reason to practice islam, and I'd rather you fuckers stopped pushing your cultural traditions on everyone else.

I don’t hate them I just don’t want them overpopulating my country.

>Your cherished Prophet was a brutal warlord who killed, enslaved, and raped people.
Killed was in the course of battle and capital punishment; enslaved, yes, but "slaves" in Islam are not treated like you guys treated the black slaves and does not have the same connotation in islam as in your history. Raped, no, he did not.

>Unintentionally does not negate them from being complicit, individually if they are actually opposed to Salafism/Wahhabism and the Saudis/Israel then they are somewhat more acceptable
Honestly they don't know the first thing about their religion and different tendencies except that they have to pray and fast, let's be honest here for a second. They can't hold an argument about religion for more than two minutes with anybody who has read half a book on the subject.

>Pro-Salafist Imams and the governments of most Sunni nations
The governments of most Sunni nations are not independant forces, they are put in place by the West and have to submit to the Salafi propaganda to "keep peace" within their country because the people want more religion and they're giving them the "appearance" of more religion (Salafism) to content them. All funded by Saudi Arabian money, the big friends and donatees of the United States.

>Countries always try to subvert other countries based on their own interests. This isn't something that western countries only due to Muslim countries, we're just the best at it because of technological superiority.
Hypocrite.
>Go do your own thing in your own country
>Oh but of course we're not gonna let you do that because we're good at manipulating you
Make up your mind please.

>The reason islam sucks is because it considers science to be heresy - looking up 'the incoherence of the philosophers' explains everything.
Untrue, and philosophy =/= science. And Al-Ghazali has some pretty retarded arguments nonetheless.

Bottom line, you're not white so fuck off and die. If I was in charge I would kill every muslim man woman and child in white lands. I dream of a day when the mosques in europe and the US, and canada, and austrailia, are burned to the ground and muslims are slaughtered and bulldozed into pits.

Because they do not recognize the humanity of their fellow human beings.

By their words the nonbelievers are to be enslaved or killed. Any apostates to their religion are to be killed, as is anyone to leave the religion as well. There are more verses about nonbelievers in the Koran than there are about believers.

Their reasoning for covering women is that "uncovered meat is devoured by dogs". They thus see the nature of men as nothing more than animals. Fellow Muslims as trained and nonbelievers as ferals that must be put down.

The Koran for all intents and purposes can be summarized thusly:
>A declaration of war on all peoples of the world who do not accept Muhammad as the one true prophet of God.

Because of this, it is not a sin to kill a Muslim.

>but "slaves" in Islam are not treated like you guys treated the black slaves
You're right, it's far, far worse

He had no choice, he knew the Syrian commies would use the union as a trojan horse.

>Keeping a place in order upholding the rules are not the same as forcing someone into an ideology, you have army for country defense and you have police for civil defense. The army and the police does not force the citizens into any particular ideology
Now this is plain silly: any legal system is an ideology in and of itself. Courts apply civil laws, penal laws, commercial laws, moral laws, and all these laws are based on an ideology: modernism, liberalism, consumerism, libertarianism. Laws make it legal to have strip clubs with posters of naked women to the sight of my children, laws make it legal for my child to access pornography in one clic on any computer, tablet or smartphone, laws make it legal for my child to do WHAT HE WANTS at 18 years old, including act in pornographic films, go watch pornographic films in theaters, etc.
Laws make it legal to buy and sell pretty much everything and therefore enforce the ideology of liberalism. Laws make it legal to fornicate, cheat on your husband or wife, marry a person of the same sex. And all of this is validated by courts, which is applied by bailiffs, and the police if necessary.

There is no such thing as "law" in and of itself, law applies an ideology. It's not a "neutral" system of checks and balances, thinking this is an ideology in and of itself, the liberal ideology, it's a hypocritical way of imposing your ideology by trying to make people believe that it is not an ideology.

>I won't talk about Muslims

You don't get to do that when PEW research shows majority of them support absolute barbarism.

All of it supported by the book.

Alright let's say what you said is right, maybe aisha was older than 9, what was she 10? 12? Isn't that the age where many women are able to reproduce, and as a prophet why would Mohammed even consider marrying her, if I was still a Muslim I would seek to follow my idol, in that case it would be Mohammed, and he just happens to marry a 12 year old, so fuck it early marriages are justified

>What is seperation of church and state, for 1000, Alex

Go and be a fucking sandniggers in your desert and lay in the sand for hours a day, but you can fuck right off if you think I'm going to take threats from you and follow your Prophet who got the shit beat out of him by an Angel and YOUR laws in MY land just because you don't like the fact that I eat bacon.

No serious communist movement existed in Syria at the time, politics in general were largely a minor issue pre-Assad era and the idea of Syrian socialists controlling Nasser is extremely unlikely

Nasser also massively fucked over Iraq, Syria and the other Arab countries during the 6 day war by negotiating a separate secret peace agreement with the US and Israel when all Syrian and Iraq war plans were designed expecting an armored push from Egypt that never happened

>Because they do not recognize the humanity of their fellow human beings.
But of course we do. We say that ALL men and women are created by God, are descendants of Adam, ALL men and women can become Muslims and be saved (unlike the Jews), all men and women have a dignity, and we have laws for warfare: not kill women, children and elderly, farmers, civilians, defenseless, etc.

>By their words the nonbelievers are to be enslaved or killed.
No. When we do Jihad, we attack the elites, we destroy Pagan GOVERNMENTS and establish Sharia law. Those who resist by arms are fought, those who are unarmed are enslaved, and enslaved does not entail what you guys did to the Blacks, I know this is the mental image you have of slaves, but in Islam, slaves are subdued enemies who are potentially rebellious on the watch, and they act as servants. They do not have all the rights of a Muslim, they are watched, but they are not objects, they have a dignity, they are not to be tortured or humiliated or forced into labour, they have rights, they can go to courts, own property, pass contracts, etc.

>Any apostates to their religion are to be killed, as is anyone to leave the religion as well.
Not true. First of all this law is not in the Quran, and therefore does not have the same level of "absoluteness", and can be discussed. Women apostates are not put to death. And male apostates are put to death if they represent a danger to the Muslim society, because he was "one of ours", he has information about us, our weaknesses, our defenses, etc., and can flee and give that information to enemies who may attack us. You're thinking about apostasy in a "modern" sense, in a Western society, that religion is only an opinion (1/2)

You human garbage ragheads worship a mass murderer who raped little children. Your entire population is worthless and dragging down the entire planet. I’m not sure why you are confused.

(2/2) But in a real Muslim country, apostasy is more akin to High Treason, this is why it is punished by death.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanged,_drawn_and_quartered
Look what your ancestors did for High Treason.

>Their reasoning for covering women is that "uncovered meat is devoured by dogs".
Literally the first time in my life I'm hearing this. The reasoning for covering women is decency, because a woman's beauty is something reserved for her husband and permissible to her unlawfuls.

>OK Sup Forums it's time to settle this once and for good.

Oh? You're gonna kys?

> Muslims

Islam, I hate Islam. It's literally not a religion. Its literally a totalitarian fascist political system. It's literally a peace abrogating psychological template to entice nihilism. Its literally one guy writing it.

L. Ron Hubbard is literally the reincarnation of Muhammad.

When are you going to start calling yourselves Judeo-Christian-Muslims? Thats literally where this is headed and you know it.

otomans, nigger. fuck you

I don't hate you. Only low IQ retards who still believe the 911 lie hate you. We know who did 911, it was the jews. Help us gas the jews and we'll be your best friend! At least you guys believe in Jesus Christ as the messiah like we do. We have our differences sure, but we can work those out later.

"It's not in the Koran" is just code word for "It's in the other books".

The same can be argued for the headscarves, yet they still wear them. Why? Because they adhere to Sharia which is derived from all three books.

>Those who are unarmed are enslaved

See, you do not recognize humanity in others.

>Alright let's say what you said is right, maybe aisha was older than 9, what was she 10? 12? Isn't that the age where many women are able to reproduce
In my opinion she was around 18 or 19. But yes, a woman is apt for marriage at the age of 12 in my opinion. Trust me, if she was 12, I would say she was 12, and if she was 10, I would say she was 10 and I would not be a Muslim because I would not support a religion that allows marriage of prepubescent children. Now I have to say something: traditional fiqh (Islamic jurisprudence) considers it permissible to marry a child of the age of 6 and consumate at 9 because of the hadith in al-Bukhari (and everywhere else) saying that the Prophet married Aisha when she was 6 and destroyed her matrix when she was 9. This hadith is false in my opinion.

>and as a prophet why would Mohammed even consider marrying her, if I was still a Muslim I would seek to follow my idol, in that case it would be Mohammed, and he just happens to marry a 12 year old, so fuck it early marriages are justified
"Early" marriages at the age of 12? Yes, of course. I don't consider that an "early" marriage.

Islam is a +9000 cry-bully. From the minute Muhammad was kicked out of mecca, he whined and whined and whined.

>Laws make it legal to have strip clubs with posters of naked women to the sight of my children,
Nope.
>Laws make it legal for my child to access pornography in one clic on any computer, tablet or smartphone
Nope
>Laws make it legal for my child to do WHAT HE WANTS at 18 years old, including act in pornographic films, go watch pornographic films in theaters, etc.
18 is considered adulthood here. Sorry you disagree. Act to change it, but not by blowing people up.
>Laws make it legal to buy and sell pretty much everything and therefore enforce the ideology of liberalism.
Nope
>Laws make it legal to fornicate, cheat on your husband or wife, marry a person of the same sex.
Marriage is religous, courts only care about your taxes. Not if your wife cheated.

You watch too much daytime tv

>Hurr durr your ancestors

Which doesn't happen now. Majority of Muslim countries hold barbaric execution practices.

The past is not on trail here, Islam is. The modern age has absolutely no need for anything Islam has to offer. You're just trying to deflect.

>yes, but "slaves" in Islam are not treated like you guys treated the black slaves and does not have the same connotation in islam as in your history.
The Islamic slave trade lasted longer than the American one, it was at least 10 times worse, black slaves would legit have their dicks cut off so they can't reproduce or Allah forbid they rape someone. Arabic literature is full of racist comments and hate against black people, to this day black people are referred to as عبيد which translates to slaves, white people at least had some balls to end slavery and fight against it, while Muslims were exploiting the hell out of other races. If your religion holds true and god punishes the wrong doers, then all the violence and destruction in the middle east is because of their shameful acts, and they deserve it by Allah's name.
Also to this day, slavery still exists in the middle east. Lebanon is filed with maids from other countries who don't get paid and are trapped in the country because they don't have their passports. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, and Kuwait all have slaves, in all sense it's modified slavery, they mass transport workers from countries like Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh, and they make them labor for long hours with barley any payroll, because how can an honorable Arab Muslim lay a brick, he can't simply go that low.

When it comes to racism, misogyny, hypocrisy, bigotry, and sexism, no one does it better than the Muslim Arabs, and I know this because I use to live among them and I experienced all of that bullshit first hand, so take your fucking sugar coated lies and shove them way up your as show

If I move to Saudi Arabia and become a Muslim as a white man, what would my experience be like? Could I find a conservative qt to marry? Maybe a few? What about work?

>This Hadith is false in my opinion

It doesn't strike you strange that it exists in the first place?

They wouldn't accept you, saudis are racists and anyone unlike them is treated like a foreigner which you are by definition, but to them it means that you are 2nd tier human and aren't on the same level as them, and they wouldn't wed you their woman because that would being disgrace to their family, unless you have a bank account with like at least 100 million dollars, then even their patriarch would suck your dick

Sharia law sucks the followers are ape tier and they always try to spread into Europe like a cancer despite Europeans not wanting it people would hate you guys alot less if you would stay in your own damn Country and keep your religion in there aswell

What about other Muslim countries? I'm really going for an Apocalypse Now "white god" kind of set up ideally.

I don't know if this ironic, but I do want to say that the Quran does not consider the Christians the same as Jews.
Christians as seen as "misguided", but almost in good faith, whereas Jews "stir the wrath of Allah" and are described as nationdestroyers and corruptors.

>"It's not in the Koran" is just code word for "It's in the other books".
No, it's not code word, it literally means it's not in the Quran, it's in other books, written by humans, prone to error, discussion, relativisation.

>>Those who are unarmed are enslaved
>See, you do not recognize humanity in others.
I don't see how enslavement in the islamic sense negates the humanity of the slave. Islamic slaves are not the same as slaves in the Western sense as the West has practiced it for centuries. Even when you guys say "sex slaves" it makes it sound like men who are chaining and raping women, whereas we have this:

quran.com/24/33
>And do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, if they desire chastity, to seek [thereby] the temporary interests of worldly life. And if someone should compel them, then indeed, Allah is [to them], after their compulsion, Forgiving and Merciful.

sunnah.com/bukhari/89/10
>"A governmental male-slave tried to seduce a slave-girl from the Khumus of the war booty till he deflowered her by force against her will; therefore 'Umar flogged him according to the law, and exiled him, but he did not flog the female slave because the male-slave had committed illegal sexual intercourse by force, against her will." Az-Zuhri said regarding a virgin slave-girl raped by a free man: The judge has to fine the adulterer as much money as is equal to the price of the female slave and the adulterer has to be flogged (according to the Islamic Law); but if the slave woman is a matron, then, according to the verdict of the Imam, the adulterer is not fined but he has to receive the legal punishment (according to the Islamic Law).

You know one can argue about their countries being divided by Western powers, and war torn by America, you can, but at the end of the day, they did it to themselves, the whole region is just in a civil war, and Europe is the closest safe space, so maybe ending the wars would help them stay in their countries

Why not just fuck off to Thailand or the Philippines? Those brown Asians are the more likely ones to give you what you seek.

Because I lived in the middle east for 15 years.

I don't hate you or your religion, but you have to go back. Godspeed on your journey.

You see here's the hard part, many Muslim countries are still in like the old way of life, they hold their family ideals highly and honor and other bullshits, many of those are poor, like let's say for example you go to Iraq, and say you go south, you'll find a lot of women however the likely hood of you getting married their is low because they wouldn't give their daughters to anyone who knocks, however tho if let's say you go to Baghdad (I'm using Baghdad as an example but this kinda applies to all other areas), you'll find a whole lot of women who would marry you solely for your citizen status, many want to leave from there and want a man to take care of them and provide for them, it would help a lot if you had a friend with relatives there and or a family.

your religion instructs you to kill me for my religion as long as you exist I am never safe

Yeah foreign Countries shouldnt be even there the only time they should be there if there were people like ISIS creating terrorist cells / terror attacks in your Country otherwise leave them to their fucking self and close the borders

OP, why do you believe in your religion? Why do you think it is the correct one? Why do you believe in the divinity of Muhammad?

>The Islamic slave trade lasted longer than the American one, it was at least 10 times worse, black slaves would legit have their dicks cut off so they can't reproduce or Allah forbid they rape someone.
This is history; I'm talking about law. Bring texts of law. What Muslims did in history and nowadays is something else completely.

>If I move to Saudi Arabia and become a Muslim as a white man, what would my experience be like? Could I find a conservative qt to marry? Maybe a few? What about work?
You would have none of that because Saudi Arabia is a racist shithole and not an Islamic state.

>It doesn't strike you strange that it exists in the first place?
No, because nothing is perfect besides the Quran, ALL books are falsifiable and have been falsified. There is even worse than that in the hadith and history books, believe me.

The marriage of prepubescent children has been custom in many traditions, and I don't find it strange that people would want to put that as "law" to protect their tradition in contradiction with what Islam has told them to do from then on. It's one of the things that shock me the least.

There are many other explanations for this hadith, amputation, fabrication, Sunni/Shia rivalry and ironic will protect the image of Aisha by insisting on the fact that she was a "pure" innocent virgin young girl and could not have committed what she has been accused of by the Shia (part of it is true by the way, and her behaviour has sometimes been outright criminal, and I'm not Shia). Caliphs used to pay narrators 1000 dirhams to invent hadith, put them in books and fabricate a chain of transmission and make it statute law...

But yes, Aisha was 18 or 19 when she was wedded to the Prophet and I have proof of that. And it's not the first fabrication and outright lie I've found in books of hadith and history, and I'm using the same books of hadith and history to find the contradictions and re-establish what I consider to be true.

fuck off we wil kill u in detroit and dearborn very soon

Jesus did not die on the cross.
> his legs were not broken
> he was given morphine
His body was not left for ravens to devour.
> he was revived
Islamic science saved him, and he lived on to travel the world for a while.

Killing gays. The fuck is wrong with your people? Fucking hell you slaughter atheists and gays by the dozens in the Middle East. We don’t need that shit in our country.

Also fuck not eating pork.

I don't hate Muslims. NEXT. They are victims of its authoritarianism as well. Every single Muslim friend I had in school are apostates now - they only fake it for their family.

>Killing faggots and athiests
This is one of the things i have absolutely no problems with Islam about
Christians should do the same

Yeah that's the problem though, I don't want to bring back a qt and have her corrupted and turned into a whore like the other women here, I want to go live and be a part of a patriarchal society.

I can't stand them, they disgust me.

But you can't deny the facts, the hadith right there is data and it's verified, your opinion is irrelevant, when I was taught Islam they legit told us that ashia was gifted to him at a very young age and her family considered it an honor. Gifted like a possession, isn't that misogynistic. You see the truth is, she was married to him at 7, and your opinion won't change my opinion until you provide me with a source or a fact that states otherwise.

And yes the time before Islam was called a time of ignorance, because Arabs were so stupid and worshiped idols and whatnot. So when religion comes isn't it supposed to end that ignorance and educate the people on it, and If that was true of Islam then Mohammad wouldn't have married ashia, and child marriages wouldn't still occur in Muslim countries. The fact that you don't see what's wrong with marriage at the age of 12 makes me thing that you are either a retarded, or b brainwashed beyond belief, and in my opinion it's all of the above

You're Christian.
quran.com/9/29
>Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.
You are from the People of the Book. You have to pay Jizya, which is a tax of like 3% of your income and nowhere near what you pay as taxes in Western countries, and be "humbled", meaning that you have to stay discreet, you can keep your religion but no public display, no proselytism to Muslims, and no revolt or criticism against the state.

I think this is pretty reasonable.

>OP, why do you believe in your religion? Why do you think it is the correct one? Why do you believe in the divinity of Muhammad?
I don't believe in the divinity of Muhammad. But I can write volumes on why I believe that my religion is correct. I went through steps. First of all I came to the realization that our world has been created and is clearly not the fruit of randomness. Then I believe that God sent messengers, for various reasons (I can give some of the top of my head: to give human beings a law to be happy and create good societies, and because monotheistic cults are not "natural", they wouldn't come "by chance", I believe in the Aquinean argument that there must be a cause, an origin for everything, including ideas, nothing is lost, nothing is created, everything is transformed, and if I look at the world "naturally", without a revelation, there is no way a human can come up with the idea that there is a God, that cannot be represented, and who created EVERYTHING, all "natural" and "normal" cults are polytheistic, it's only natural to think that there are mutliple separate forces behind every element, especially in freaking 2500 BC).
And then I studied islam and discovered that I can argue for every law and every statement it provided.

why does that symbol always look like a sweaty micro penis and balls?

Don't you find it fucking embarrassing that the only wilful converts to Islam in the west are fucking SJWs and Trannies who are convinced its a gay movement? Should that not give you a hint?

Actions speak louder than words dude, you basically ignored the entire part when I talked about modern day slavery in Islam, maybe read the entire thing and don't make a fool of yourself

I hate the fact that your religion treats women as 2nd class but feminazis dont see it.

I hate the fact that your religion is allowed to blast your class to prayer 5 times a day on the loudspeaker.

Hate the fact that you radicals have the power in my country to force churches to take down their cross because "it will offend and influence the muslim teenagers"

You muslims act like you have the moral high ground all the time, yet lash out and act like children when anything doesnt go your way. ( E.x Zakir Naik shutting down people who dont agree with him by shouting over them and dismissing them.)

You noted that "slaves: in Islam are not treated like you guys treated the black slaves.
Thats subjective. explain the Janissaries, where white families in Constantinople were forced to give up their first born to fight for the Ottoman king.

Some of you genuinely believe that because you are muslim you are better than the rest of us.

apostasy is death

And the thing that makes me hate Islam the most is how dirty you assholes are.

Aceh in Indonesia implimented Sharia law under the pretext that "it will not affect non muslims", thats what you muslims keep selling and pushing for right? Yet in Aceh there are at least 2 counts where non muslims get publicly canned under sharia law.

Last thing, if a person were to marry a muslim Guy/Girl. The non muslim must convert. The Muslim isnt able to convert because apostasy means death (you could probably dodge this in the western countries. The west. that muslims keep pushing for sharia law. )