Ayn Rand Thread

How do you guys feel about Ayn Rand? Do you like her books? Which one is your favorite? How do you feel about the ideology of objectivism.

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youtube.com/watch?v=t-2c7Keic_A
interviewmagazine.com/culture/nick-gaetano
youtube.com/watch?v=fmSO2cz2ozQ
investopedia.com/terms/i/informationallyefficientmarket.asp
youtube.com/watch?v=vJwKKKd2ZYE
youtube.com/watch?v=2uHSv1asFvU
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youtube.com/watch?v=t-2c7Keic_A

The fountainhead is my personal favorite as I'm a creative type, and I feel like every aspiring artist should read it.

Ok, I'll read it dammit.

Ayn Rand is a shit Author, only idiots reads her books. Das kapital written by Karl Marx is the ultimate redpill

Anthem is short and sweet and is the best introduction.

Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology is the most useful. And yes, I will shill this book in every Rand thread until you fucks start reading it.

I'm writing a novel about an an-cap sociality. It's like the show mad men but it takes place in an-cap society and everyone who reads it will see how great it is. It's going to be like Ayn Rand's Atlas Shurgged and change the world.

Pretentious as fuck user. You and the book.

>Ayn Rand
Essentially trying to justify no-holds-barred personal greed as a good thing while glossing over or disregarding the fact that even logical people can be dicks to each other. It suffers from the same weakness as anarchistic ideology.

Anyone know what the art style is called?

Kek'd out loud, Comrade.

My favorite too. I'm an architect, maybe that's why. I don't agree with all of her ideologies but U can totally understand her frustration on how talent has to step aside to favor mediocrity. She ended up being right, the real villains are the ones who kill creativity or those who want to sell it to everyone, like Syndrome from the Incredibles, most Randyan movie ever.

>Syndrom a randian villain

I don't remember Syndrom very well or the incredibles for that matter. What did he do again?

Art-deco, I think. Here is the author if you want more about his work. interviewmagazine.com/culture/nick-gaetano

He wanted everyone to be Super so that nobody would be Super. He was fiercely jealous of people who were capable of things he was not.

its perfect with a society full of robots.

Thanks very much, user. Appreciate the effort.

Oh yeah. Wow that never dawned on me, its been so long. What a fucken commie.
youtube.com/watch?v=fmSO2cz2ozQ

From an analysis I read comparing the Fountainhead and the Incredibles, Syndrome's own frustration by realizing he's not as special as the Supers made him want to destroy them by making them ordinary. His plans were to sell weapons and tools to give anyone superpowers because if everybody can be a superhero, then no one will be special. There was also a comparison between him and Toohey: Syndrom wasn't a superhero but he made himself powerful as one by other means while Toohey, who I think was a critic, made a name of himself by being a suckup despite he lacked any kind of artistic talent while destroying real talented people.

any time.

...

Any details on it?

I too am writting an ancap story, but it is kind of a joke story that combined the hilarious strawmen with the actual possibilities of such a society.

objectivism is a step above lolbertarianism in general
as it aspires a heroic individualism instead of degenerate muh weed man individualism

...

Rand is a shìtty writer and Atlas Shrugged is a giant strawman.

I agree with you on the strawmen. The central characters in her books tend to be giant Mary/Gary Stus

Explain to me, how can you follow objectivism in a society so corrupt? How you deal, for example, with the fact that people lie a lot? Do you do it too, or try to have morals in everything in your life?

We do by blowing up buildings.

Tots not terrorism.

she was a degenerate speed freak.

By dynamiting it

>Ayn Rand
>Rand was born Alisa Zinov'yevna Rosenbaum (Russian: Aли́ca Зинoвьeвнa Poзeнбayм) on February 2, 1905, to a Russian Jewish bourgeois[12] family living in Saint Petersburg

Would you Sup Forums?

>Ayn Rand is jewish
>Therfore she is equally as bad as someone like George Soros because she is the same race.

Your reaching SJWs levels of retarded here.

Nope, never. Ayn Rand is not an attractive woman, but she is damn smart. I don't care how smart she is, I still would never fug her.

>Das kapital written by Karl Marx is the ultimate
cancer

>Trusting jews
>ever
don't say you weren't warned

Come on guys she’s not that bad

>Ancap
>Economic mastery

If you want to read good philosophers that will change the way you look at things for the better, then go with Max Stirner and Nietzsche before moving on to pic related. Starting with the Greeks helps as well.

Low test.

>I'm Jewish AND a woman

If there were no Das Kapital, there’d be no Ayn Rand. You done fucking goofed.

>Do you like her books?

Check out the Ayn Rand Lexicon from A to Z. She rails on commies, fascists and collectivism pretty hard.

> "An embryo has no rights. Rights do not pertain to a potential, only to an actual being. A child cannot acquire any rights until it is born. The living take precedence over the not-yet-living (or the unborn).

Abortion is a moral right—which should be left to the sole discretion of the woman involved; morally, nothing other than her wish in the matter is to be considered. Who can conceivably have the right to dictate to her what disposition she is to make of the functions of her own body?"

LOL

Says the mexican living in socialist mexico.

>How you deal, for example, with the fact that people lie a lot? Do you do it too, or try to have morals in everything in your life?

People won't lie in a truly free market society. They'll have the incentive to tell the truth because if you're a businessman in a truly free market society, the market will factor in the probability that you're lying and it will hurt your profits.

The government just needs to cut the damn regulations and let the free market sort everything out.

Haven't you Swedes learned anything about the nature of altruism by importing half of Somalia? The only reason your country has gibs to offer them is that you valued no-holds-barred greed for a few decades before you started electing Marxists.

>the market will factor in the probability that you're lying and it will hurt your profits
Is "the market" your next door neighbor?

“In a capitalist society, all human relationships are voluntary. Men are free to cooperate or not, to deal with one another or not, as their own individual judgments, convictions, and interests dictate. They can deal with one another only in terms of and by means of reason, i.e., by means of discussion, persuasion, and contractual agreement, by voluntary choice to mutual benefit. The right to agree with others is not a problem in any society; it is the right to disagree that is crucial. It is the institution of private property that protects and implements the right to disagree—and thus keeps the road open to man’s most valuable attribute (valuable personally, socially, and objectively): the creative mind.”

If she had any integrity she would have killed herself before taking government gibs for medical care.
/thread

Rand is Jew, her true name Alisa Zinov'yevna Rosenbaum

never trust a Jew, they always use nice words to screw you

ethnocentric populations always win over atomized individualistic societies, that's why you are ruled by minorities

Rand lied to you

aren't you free to leave the country if you wanted?
Staying is your consent

>Is "the market" your next door neighbor?

The market is anyone who could potentially buy a product or service you're selling.

Markets, which tend to be optimally information efficient, will factor in the risk that you're being deceptive with your product. This will cause the value of your product to decline

By information efficient I mean that the price of a product incorporates and reflects all available information which includes the risk that a business owner is engaging in deception.

"DEFINITION of 'Informationally Efficient Market'
A theory, which moves beyond the definition of the efficient market hypothesis, that states that new information about any given firm is known with certainty, and is immediately priced into that company's stock."
investopedia.com/terms/i/informationallyefficientmarket.asp

If governments just allow markets to work as intended this will inevitably reduce the level of deception in society.

...

Stopped at the sex chapter in atlas shrugged. It was a slog up until then.
I still like that the books trigger collectivist lefty slime.

>The market is anyone who could potentially buy a product or service you're selling.
most people are idiots

Go watch a commercial, they aren't going over product specs, they're using sexual imagery, memes, and characters to sell products to people.

Is America First essentially Objectivism on a country level ??

"Ayn Rand" ? -- more like Alisa Zinov'yevna (((Rosenbaum)))

>People won't lie in a truly free market society
ancaps lol

It’s okay, I was one before too.

Right but think about the information a commercial contains. It means the company in the commercial has enough capital to invest in a commercial, which means the company has sold a lot of products, which means other people have bought this product. Therefore the product has a high probability of being a good product.

Government is really what's causing people to lie in society. Without government, people wouldn't lie because that would hurt their profits.

If you say so. Roark did what he wanted to do, and didn't blame anyone when it lead to the loss of his business and reputation many times over. He just continued to hone his craft until there was a demand for his work.

The absolute opposite of the pretentious starving artist that cries about the inability for the "unwashed" public to understand his work. He persevered without excuse or apology, and I greatly respect that

The Fountainhead

Howard Roark is based

Our altruism stems from the tillika/Jante lagen which has Protestant roots. It was a good system that was corrupted by Neo-Marxists and die hard globalist-socialists. Very few people are happy about it. Don't believe our media because they pretty much act like a DDR light when it comes to their monopoly on information.

People are easily misled and tricked using simple marketing techniques.

People didn't evolve to be individuals in the market, they evolved to be part of an integrated national heirarchy. That's why they love authority so much. That's why young boys lust for battle and action, and girls play with dolls and sewing kits. It's human nature

She was a Jew. She was Phillipe de Rothschild's bitch, literally. One of her heroes in Atlas Shrugged was a banker. One of her heroes IRL was a serial killer. She liked to troll Christians and promote degeneracy. In her later years she created a personality cult around herself and demanded absolute obedience. Her padowan was Alan Greenspan.

Really activates those almonds.

Roark also blew up his employers building because it didn't conform with his original idea. Then he get's acquitted after holding a philosophical speech in court and just changes every bodies minds in one setting despite the ridiculous and unrealistic obstacles sett before him and anybody who supported him.
>pic related as to why philosophical discourse in legal court isn't a great idea

>no-holds-barred personal greed
I seem to remember her philosophy including significant limitations on that. Her idea was that greed is good as a basic motivation, while altruism is inherently destructive, but not that all actions taken in that name of short-sighted self interest are automatically justified. She did believe that a truly reasonable person would understand honoring the rights of others (subject to reciprocity) as necessary for pursuit of self interest. This might not be the same as being "nice", but it's at least not evil. Her stories deal mostly with cases where bad laws make this not work out (hence her heroes blowing up buildings and engaging in piracy).

>Some jews are good guys because they say things I like.
To the oven you go

Objectivism is somewhat odd as a ”meritocratic position” considering how social democracy achieves it better.

Here’s the problem with Ayn Rand. She doesn’t have the correct view of human nature:
>Man’s distinctive characteristic is his type of consciousness—a consciousness able to abstract, to form concepts, to apprehend reality by a process of reason . . . [The] valid definition of man, within the context of his knowledge and of all of mankind’s knowledge to-date [is]: “A rational animal.”

The problem with Objectivists and Ancaps is they they man is a rational animal, but that’s projection. They think since they are rational, other people are. Man is an animal, nothing more, nothing less. Please explain how these “rational animals” will fit into your incentive reasoning based stateless society:

youtube.com/watch?v=vJwKKKd2ZYE

Rand advocates for open borders IRL, projecting her reason onto the worlds immigrants. Yet, in Atlas Shrugged she inadvertently admits immigration must be tightly controlled; just look at how hard it was for the MC to reach the ancap secret society! If the leeches made it into Galts Gulch it would be over.

an utter idiot
Kant isnt good either.

You can never be more than 50% right without God.

How so?

If you want to have a meritocracy you need to have equality of opportunity, which inevitably means social democracy. I wonder what ancaps think of german ordo liberalism, which combines laissez fare with socialism.

Fountainhead is the best

its a fiction book isn't it?

The courtroom drama was goofy, sure, but does a work have to be perfect to enjoy it?

Babby's First Redpill

Good read, but not purely applicable in reality.

Galt's Gulch is more like a temporary survivalist community than an attempt to build utopia. Rand was definitely not an anarchocapitalist (or anarcho-anything). Minarchist might be closer, though perhaps not as "min" as some.

As for open borders, they mostly seem like a problem for welfare states. With better guards agaisnt the rise of such institutions, I'm not sure restrictive immigration controls would be necessary.

How well did social democratic meritocracy give underage white rape victims in Rotherham their just reward?

As a work of fiction it's nothing but a dramatic twist (and one could argue a lazy way to wrap things up) but if your trying to read into it's deeper philosophical message it's pretty corny and full of holes.

>People are easily misled and tricked using simple marketing techniques.

The market misleads them far less than the government

>That's why young boys lust for battle and action, and girls play with dolls and sewing kits. It's human nature

The market takes care of that too by making Schwarzenegger action movies for males and dolls/accessories for females

I'm not quite sure I follow. Is your complaint that it is not a strict meritocracy (people can still get rich by luck, such as inheritance)? I'm not sure that was the intended goal. There isn't any intent to enforce equality aside from equal liberty.

Ordoliberalism seem fundamentally collectivist. It's goals are macoeconomic in nature - Rand's are not. I suspect she might argue that state controls of the economy will end up being self-defeating, even if it's slower than actual communism.

>'Tribalism' is bad for you goyim but good for Israel and jews!!!

youtube.com/watch?v=2uHSv1asFvU

> reading some jewish vomit :D:D

It’s not just a problem in a welfare state. It can’t be allowed if any free society to survive. If collectivists, irrational people, or any other tribe is allowed to enter the minarchist society they will exert their influence and revert the society to collectivism.

i don't know, maybe im stupid but the more i read the more fucking frustrating i become and more depressed. How this changed for you for the better i don't know but im curious so if you want to elaborate please do

Art deco

This is a textbook example of a non-sequiteur.

I know what randism’s intended goals are. However, objectivism gets often advertised as ”man’s right to the sweat of his brow”, which is misleading as your access to the means of production and wealth are not solely of your own making.

>always
Yeah i forgot, germany won, oh wait....

hack writer, butt hurt jewish princess

That doesn't seem like enough to keep out, or even necessarily helpful. Not everyone inside will be a liberrty-loving individualist. Not everyone outside will be a collectivist. Simply eliminating government support should go a long way toward ensuring immigrants will mostly be of the self-reliant sort by necessity.

Threats like that can't be dealt with well by laws or government. Trying to use the state to control cultural trends like that will require giving it a lot of power. I suspect that would end up being self-defeating. There are plenty of litterally "conservative" movements that have tried that, but I can't recall any long-term successes.

Objectivism is a great starting point to understand the relationship between morals and aesthetic preferences. Objectivism is to the societal or culture make up of a free society, as the principle of might makes right is to an authoritarian society.

David Friedman's book The Machinery of Freedom as a similar conclusion in principle to Objectivism with a different methodology for additional study.

A minarchist society still believes that coercive and authoritarian rights are morally permissible. This is why the reigns of power can be taken from the founders of this type of society. The problem lies in the foundation principles. The NAP solves this issue because then the collectivists would have to kill the free society members to force their way upon them.

The history of the economy is a story of the market repeatedly failing in every possible way. Even though the basis for understanding the market in economics is perfect competition, in reality the starting point was never anything even close to perfection, and the idea that removing government influence will take us closer to real market economy is just a conceptual misunderstanding.

She collected SS she can fuck the kike off.

#notall
Assuming you’re talking in the context of a democracy or rebublic, the immigration of millions of Muslims for example means the end of your minarchist free society. It’s not as if the only potential threatening people are going to be too poor to live there without welfare.

>The NAP solves this issue
>Millions of Muslims move into free society
>they don’t violate the NAP
>eventually they become the majority, around 80% due to birth rates
>many of them have acquired great wealth through the free system
>they suddenly institute a theocracy
There’s literally no way to prevent this in ancapistan. An ancap society can only exist if immigration is controlled.

>”man’s right to the sweat of his brow”
It's been a while since I read Rand's stuff, but I don't recall that being one of her stock phrases. Sounds very labor-theory-of-value oriented.

>access to the means of production and wealth are not solely of your own making
This does sound familiar, though. This is the same tired argument Marxists (and those influenced by him) always use to dismiss the concept of property rights. You don't need to start from scratch to have the right to property. It can traded for or given. The fact that multiple people were involved in making something does not magically endow everyone alive with a right to it. Neither does the obligation to honor the property rights of others (usually where they go next).

Most communist states have had no problems of enforcing morals. Although I doubt it’s what you are looking for.

I know what ancaps think of property rights and such, but here on pol they seem to think that objectivism is some sort of a perfect meritocracy.

If you watched the damn video you posted you probably would have posted "muh tribalism". She doesn't support Israel because it is jewish, she suports it because Israel (at the time) was doing far less acts of terrorism than the arabs and supported a democracy.

Honestly it is kind of hard to not support this stance if you did not hear any information about mossad operations.

Its some vomit if this book inspires people enough to name there yacht after one of her books. Pic related.

>There’s literally no way to prevent this in ancapistan.
There are a few. for one Muslims tend to be violent jihadists so doing so would violate the NAP, which means that they would get shot. And the civil rights act of 1967 would not exist so you can freely discriminate against muslims and discourage them from moving near you.

But the mass migration that we saw in europe would not be possible in an ancap. Mainly because there would be no saftey net, and frankly many of the arabs and muslims who moved there just want to collect welfare on the social saftey net of the European Union.

I guess your going to have deny a lot of scientific discoveries in the past 100 years such as nuclear energy, quantum mechanics, and engineering advances have been the work of jews.