Christianity General /cg/ - ORIENTALE LUMEN EDITION

The light of the East has illumined the universal Church, from the moment when "a rising sun" appeared above us

>w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/apost_letters/1995/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_19950502_orientale-lumen.html

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archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/120132023/#120132023
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Sol Invictus is the god of European man.

youtube.com/watch?v=Pvc-ABV9Qus

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Prayer in the Heart in a World of Distractions - Mother Victoria
>youtube.com/watch?v=TQiIC6mZdtM

How many of you believe completely in the existence of a soul and an afterlife?

I can definitely see why religion in general, and Christianity in particular, is a very useful doctrine for psychological functioning throughout life and for optimal societies, but I can't bring myself to make the 'leap of faith'. Agnosticism is the only logical approach for me, and while I can easily accept the possibility of something like Spinoza's God, I find it more difficult to accept the theological tenets of Christianity (although I wish I could).

>but I can't bring myself to make the 'leap of faith'
Have you read this?
archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/120132023/#120132023

You're already on your way, brother. I was an agnostic atheist for 18 years before Sup Forums finally redpilled me on Christianity.

I'm not sure I need convincing on the benefits of Christianity per se. It's true that I was an edgy atheist between the ages of 16-20 spurting out Dawkins-tier shit, but in recent years I've read authors such as Dostoevsky and Hesse who have convinced me a life with a spiritual purpose is always superior to one without a spiritual purpose, and recently I've heard the same arguments made eloquently by Jordan Peterson, drawing heavily on Jung.

But what I struggle with is this idea that it's just a psychological trick. It's an evolved pattern of thinking which helps to stave off chaos because it stops people from sinking into despair and inaction when they encounter tragedy. It's a very effective trick - but that doesn't tell me a damn thing about whether it's 'real' or not, and so I remain agnostic and depressed. How can I believe in something I don't believe in?

What made you change your mind?

>How can I believe in something I don't believe in?
Approach it as an experience, rather than an argument to satisfy your skepticism. If you haven't tried the contemplative practice described in the text, give it a shot.

>Cuckstianity
Begone, Jew-puppet

I am completely certain every man is born with built-in awareness of the presence of God and that any uncertainty about it is a result of modern society/media influence.

Christianity is a way my ancestors venerated God so it is good enough for me.
I'm lucky that I'm Orthodox, so it's much more mystical than rational dogmatic, and it suits my sense of logic just fine.
For example regarding the afterlife, you don't go to Heaven or Hell but you continue to live in the presence of God. If you did not manage to go far on the road of theosis during the life you'll experience presence of God as suffering (not burning fire but like for example pain of your loved one dying x million)

I'll give it a go, thanks

Can you define what it actually means, in the phenomenological sense, to 'live in the presence of God'? What is it like to experience that?

One of the problems I'm having at the moment is that I literally can't conceptualise any sort of post-death experience that gives me comfort. The idea of oblivion terrifies me (because it means everything that preceded it had no purpose, and senseless suffering was just senseless suffering), but equally the idea of eternity terrifies me. The only ideas of afterlife that I'm even close to comfortable with are multiple reincarnations where your memory is wiped each time, or something that is literally incomprehensible to the human mind so it makes no sense to fear it. But even then I find myself in a place of completely indecision, and on an unstoppable path to a terrifying option.

There is a God and what you perceive as "you" is not bound to your flesh. Anything is possible. According to the accepted model of physics there is a tiny chance that every particle that makes up your body disappears and appears in the exact correct order on top of the eiffel tower, it's just astronomically unlikely but the possibility is there according to how we understand the world. The underlying nature of reality, the Word can do whatever it pleases, God really is omnipotent, we have measured that. Becoming human and rising from the dead is not a problem. The proof is all around you since God becomes human and conquers death every day, we are made of Him in His image.

B-but Jesus threw a money lender out of Synagogue~~~

>I'll give it a go, thanks
Jump into it. Please note that the text doesn't merely list the benefits of converting to Christianity, it also describes the mechanism by which you attain those benefits and recommends at the outset that you follow the instructions, instead of going 'got it, makes sense'. As I said elsewhere - archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/145218993/#145233037

I feel his description is still too specific, it's really taught as a mystery.
We all return to god and some of us will enjoy it, some will not (especially those who hate god)
But it's not said if this is gonna be a permanent state. Like I said, it's a mystery.

>What made you change your mind?
Seeing through the true nature of atheism.
It's about building a belief system to deny god, so you can pretend, your actions (sins) don't have consequences.
Instead they created new "sins" (breathing, eating, using fire, having children) to threaten you with Earth becoming hell (getting hot), unless you pay for indulgence to NGOs with central bank money.
"Scientists" fudging data to further their agenda hasn't been new with climate change. In school I got told big bang and evolution as facts, while they are still desperately searching to fill the gaping holes in these theories.
Inspired by Sup Forums I took a second look at Jesus Christ, the actual evidence, read the Bible and then it clicked with me.

In any case, it makes sense to me that we all return to our creator in the end.
The ideas jews have, like people will be put into boiling excrement by god is completely retarded if you ask me. Why would god do such a thing?

Well, as I've said, I'm talking from the postion of Orthodoxy, so it suits me that it is pretty mystical. Basic idea is to preserve the way of thinking of the original Christians, and they didn't really dwell on such questions. Hence, Orthodoxy doesn't really go and explain things like that in fact lots of that sort of questions are considered to be devil's trap to keep us from doing things we should do (worship God). Roman Catholicism is much more focused on trying to analytically untangle those.

As I said, for us, living(existing?) in the presence of God is being in the presence of eternal Love. You suffer if you are not able to partake it because your flaws and passions keep you from it, and you are ecstatic if you managed to ditch them during life and are able to experience God's love.

if you accept the existence of God, the resurrection of Christ is more probable than not. If you believe Christ resurrected, you are a Christian.

someone post the pasta with music links please

Catholicism is not Christianity

youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4ByrircmXL4YzuAw6x8B9pmKjdrS9Wr2

Watch that entire playlist.

...

I guess I just don't find this mysticism comforting (which is not to say it's any more or less true). I wish I had a firm religious conviction and a positive idea of the afterlife to look forward to, so I could live my earthly life in a virtuous and happy way. This mystic approach is more rational to me, but at the same time it requires the leap of faith that I still can't bring myself to make.

Surely that's only if you accept the existence of the Christian God? I've heard rational arguments for deism, as with Spinoza's God, but I've not come across an argument for a Christian God specifically which doesn't rely on religious faith. There's nothing wrong with that other than it makes it harder for me to believe it.


I'm off to bed now because I've got work tomorrow, but thanks to those who have replied - I'll keep the tab open if there's any other replies, and hopefully be back soon to discuss these things further.

>That brand of judaism isn't the same as my brand of judaism

>people will be put into boiling excrement by god

You have to understand that 90% of christianity is medieval fan-fiction written by dumbasses well after the fact.
Take the time to look at sources and think things through. Actual descriptions of hell are lacking to say the least.

On very short example of our church music: youtube.com/watch?v=HBW5Rq5u03o

It's probably kind of a culture shock to most Westerners to hear this (so I doubt you'll like it), as you can still hear very clearly the Middle Eastern origin of it.

You don't know history at all.

God literally is not real and there is zero evidence for his existence other than books written by people that were high on psychedelics.

If you like rationality, you might want to read this author.

>EU flag

The change in your life is real

It's not very different from what we're accustomed to, reminds me of youtube.com/watch?v=M0d4qM7gCH8
Cool song, thanks orthodox bro

Yeah, god is so unreal that atheist these days created a retarded nature religion cult where they praise mother earth and seek to please her by preventing fake human made global warming.
If you do not believe in god you will create yourself a religion out of some ideology. And it's likely to be quite dangerous to society because people can make shit up as they go.

>Can't disprove what I said so he proceeds to meme

Total onslaught is a massive 30hr redpill. most cathocucks will choke on it.

Yes. No explanation of the kiss satisfies the desire for a kiss.

>fake human made global warming.

Okay then, how do you know that it was written by guys on drugs?

Very beautiful, thank you! You are right, it doesn't sound so different.

>Yeah, god is so unreal that atheist these days created a retarded nature religion cult where they praise mother earth and seek to please her by preventing fake human made global warming.
The joke is, that at the same time they want you to go extinct (stop having children), so there is actually no point to "save the planet". It's contradicting bullshit.

You are the definition of a good goy.

How come people don't give good sermons anymore? Nobody tells us what we need to hear, just what we want to hear.

Women took over the church in the 19th and early 20th century, replacing genuine Biblical scholarship with "Jesus said to be nice so you should be nice"

Jesuit infiltration. Serious stuff the Roman Catholic Church didn't take the reformation very well.

Which version of The Bible should I download for reference?

Can someone be Christian and Natsoc?

King James Version (KJV)

KJV. Stay the hell away from any other versions especially the New King James Version.

youtube.com/watch?v=GE9FNwG5myA

They say the best version is the one that is read.
That usually means the one you grew up with.

Other than that Old Revised Standard Version is the most accurate. And as with any translation, no translation is 100%

It makes scientifically impossible claims like the whole world was flooded.

>666

good post kraut. i had to cap it

youtube.com/playlist?list=PL13eE2x3qhPktufTQOHw0wsMOPdxFky-P

>It's about building a belief system to deny god, so you can pretend, your actions (sins) don't have consequences
Your actions do have consequences, if you fuck up your life will go downhill, and since this life is all that matters you can't just pray to god and hope that you get a do over or get to go to heaven because you were faithful.
>Instead they created new "sins" (breathing, eating, using fire, having children) to threaten you with Earth becoming hell (getting hot), unless you pay for indulgence to NGOs with central bank money.
I don't believe in any of that crap, I'm far more socially conservative than most of my Christian friends and already have one son and intend to have at least three more.
>"Scientists" fudging data to further their agenda hasn't been new with climate change. In school I got told big bang and evolution as facts, while they are still desperately searching to fill the gaping holes in these theories.
Show me some of these 'holes' in evolution.

i dunno m8 there's a lot of proof that north america was under water. see: the prairies, the grand canyon, etc. Australia too was underwater according to geologists. i don't know why people feel conflicted about this.

>Just watch nearly 10 hours of videos to see my claims
Mind just giving me some specific sections from relevant sources instead of pointing at the equivalent of a volume of encyclopedias?

Bumping, how is everyone doing today? Got to go on pilgrimage last week, was quite nice.

So post some of that proof.

>all the bible is meant to be taken as literal scientific truth
You've been listening to way too many fundies, the Church has held that many parts of the bible are not literal scientific or historical truths since the time of Augustine.

Watch that playlist. You spent years being indoctrinated in school you can take a few hours to watch that.

Catholicism is not Christianity. God's Word is God's Word.

>You spent years being indoctrinated in one way
>So you should spend years being indoctrinated in another way
I went to school in rural Kentucky, if I was indoctrinated in any way it was to be Christian.

And where do you draw the line between the truths and the stories that simply exist to teach a lesson?

>the original shitpost

>And where do you draw the line between the truths and the stories that simply exist to teach a lesson?
That's the purpose of science, to allow us to understand the world around us and thus better discern literal truth from metaphorical ones. It's why there are so many catholic priests who are in science, and why the church has been one of the greatest historical supporters of it.
Now may I ask, why are you so hostile to Christ? What's happened in your life to make you the way you are?

Hitler was a baptized catholic

Depends. If your form of natsoc didn't require you to sin, then I suppose so.

white christian women are basically black baby factories
no thanks

>God's Word is God's Word.
which is why it was a-ok for Luther to remove some books, right?

Who is Luther?

Martin luther

...

>And where do you draw the line between the truths and the stories that simply exist to teach a lesson?
As with any text it's subject to interpretation. The burger fundie interpretation of the Bible and world is retarded while worldviews expressed by guys like Augustine or Aquinas are sophisticated and instead of contradicting science natural theology compliment it. The scientific method is a product of Christianity.

>Christianity began in 1517

Judas was the first commie, who literally wanted Jesus to become a worldly King who gave bread to the people.

Where Satan failed with Jesus, he succeeded with Judas.

not an argument

Lol. this tired meme needs to die. Jesus constantly says stuff contrary to communism.
Hell the KINGDOM of heaven is inherently hierarchical, going directly against communism.

>That's the purpose of science
That's retarded. Then you run into the issue of "everything is true until proven wrong" while at the same time pretending that it doesn't effect the overall validity of the word.

Just a friendly reminder that Christianity was a Jewish ploy.

Thanks!

Huh? Is determining the truth not the purpose of science?

>Then you run into the issue of "everything is true until proven wrong" while at the same time pretending that it doesn't effect the overall validity of the word.
Well yes and also no. Reason also allows us to determine what is literal and what is not, hence why genesis was called not so early on. And no, it does not affect the overall validity of the word. A great portion of the bible is not meant to be taken literally (all the psalms and the like for instance) because the bible is made up of a ton of genres, and sometimes stuff comes along and makes us rethink our current understanding.
And once again, what makes you so hostile to Christ's Truth user? If you didn't care, then you wouldn't be here. You're clearly looking for something, even if you don't know it. Tell me your story, let me help you. I won't judge

>calls out the jews for their sins
>outright says that the jews are no longer the chosen people and their covenant is done
yeah, nah. this is a meme that people with a bare bones understanding of Christianity spread

>outright says that the jews are no longer the chosen people and their covenant is done

It never says that anywhere explicitly. There's a special place in hell for those who justify their hatred with Christianity.

>It never says that anywhere explicitly.
Jeremiah 31: "I will make a new covenant" and the fact that you don't have to get circumcised among other things. Though it was wrong to say "outright," that is true.
>There's a special place in hell for those who justify their hatred with Christianity.
Agreed. I don't hate them or anyone. they're wrong, but all men, myself included, are at some point.

The issue is with the bible. For example lets say I write a book, it includes the sum of my knowledge, some science, some history, some philosophy, etc. I raise my children off of that book and they raise their children off of that book. Eventually some of the stuff in my book is proven wrong, my scientific theories are eventually disproved, my historical beliefs are later proven incorrect. However my descendants instead of saying "oh our great grandfather was just incorrect about some information" instead say "oh well that time he mentioned the Spartans defeating the Mongols at the battle of Bastogne was just allegorical to teach us a lesson."

Unless the book in question defines when it is allegorical or literal you cannot know for sure if anything you are reading is true.

>what makes you so hostile to Christ's Truth user?
Not hostile, I mostly find Christianity's morality and philosophical implication either disagreeable or negative in nature. I tried to be religious a long time ago but nothing ever clicked, never felt anything, never had any sense of completeness, security, or fulfilledness. Eventually as I grew up and began to develop my own general sense of morality I began to dislike Christian morality and the implications of Christian thought. Using a term I've heard some preachers use, I'm a worldly person. Its not that I live for base pleasures like sex and food, but if heaven is the end goal than this world has no real importance or value.

>Not hostile, I mostly find Christianity's morality and philosophical implication either disagreeable or negative in nature.
How so?
>I tried to be religious a long time ago but nothing ever clicked, never felt anything, never had any sense of completeness, security, or fulfilledness. Eventually as I grew up and began to develop my own general sense of morality I began to dislike Christian morality and the implications of Christian thought. Using a term I've heard some preachers use, I'm a worldly person.
With what denomination? Protestants are generally shit theologically.
>Its not that I live for base pleasures like sex and food, but if heaven is the end goal than this world has no real importance or value.
Very very wrong. That's Gnosticism and it's heresy. The world IS very much so important, even mired in sin.

Fuck Christianity!

No LARP is stupider that the viking LARP.

Why are you so hostile to the Truth user? Why do you reject that for which all mankind is made?

Read Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis

It's cheap af and a phenomenally good read, and oddly enough, entirely logical.

>Very very wrong. That's Gnosticism and it's heresy. The world IS very much so important, even mired in sin.
How so? If heaven is absolutely perfect than this world is nothing more than a glorified waiting room? Why should I really care about making this waiting room slightly more pleasurable to those in the waiting room with me? Beyond that why should I try to actively prolong my life and not say avoid getting treated for cancer so I can end up going to heaven sooner?

Under an atheistic perspective improving the world is much more important since this world is all anyone will ever have. If you make the world a shitty place than you can know that with so little time spent alive you have made many people have a worse time alive. Likewise if you improve the world you can die knowing that you have made the world a better place and this short and only experience that much better for others who come after you.

>How can I believe in something I don't believe in?
Well I suppose the question then is, what keeps you from belief? and even then, not believing 100% isn't a sin. Also, miracles are a thing. Most visible are incorruptible saints.

I agree but at the same time "deus vult retake constantinople" larpers are pretty stupid.

Get in here. Evidence of pedophilia in Hollywood.

Shut up you fucking gimp
you arent even white

>How so? If heaven is absolutely perfect than this world is nothing more than a glorified waiting room? Why should I really care about making this waiting room slightly more pleasurable to those in the waiting room with me? Beyond that why should I try to actively prolong my life and not say avoid getting treated for cancer so I can end up going to heaven sooner?
Look at genesis. What does God say about the everything He creates? that it was "good."
The world is NOT a glorified waiting room, it is a once perfect creation made imperfect through sin. The ultimate goal of salvation history is to undo this sin and make "earth" as "it is in heaven" Christ makes very clear that you are not supposed to just disregard this world.