Why can't we have more deep and interesting characters like Shirou?

Why can't we have more deep and interesting characters like Shirou?

Gettin' real tired of these self-insert harem MCs.

Please explain, i don't understand.

Why can't we have more MCs like Shirou.

...

Dude, DENSE MEME! XD

This might be bait but I agree. Whether or not his ideals or childish or not he's a flawed and intresting character. No one treats him as this amazing guy, in the grand scheme of things he's not the strongest and even his super cool chuni fantasy brought to life isn't the strongest and is just as flawed. I think my problem with a lot of anime/manga/vn protagonists is that they're stuck on the extreme of being pussy beta males so that twink otakus can identify with them or pussy smashing mary sues so that twink otakus can self insert into them, with nothing in between.

>flawed and interesting character
Ayy just like my nigga right here

Nah, he's just annoying.

How about you stop reading haremshit and LNshit?

Bait, but I agree with you.

How can we have an agreeable bait?

It's magic, I think.

best bait i've seen all day

Not even worth giving a (you)

Does anyone even self insert as Shirou though? Besides in the H-scenes I guess, which are removed in realta nua anyway. Why would anyone want to self insert as someone who is so clearly presented as being a complete idiot.

He's not a complete idiot. He thinks a lot, he's insightful, he has cutting wit.

Honestly the only character i considered well written was the MC of chaos;head VN even though the VN itself was meh ish but the monologue atmosphere were rather superb.

Monologue and atmosphere*

>clearly presented as being a complete idiot
But the plot rewards him from being a complete idiot. Half of the bad ends yields from him acting sane and not retarded. He got away scott free in 2 out of 3 routes.

H-scenes are canon and RN is not canon btw

>This might be bait but I agree.

Why the fuck would it be bait?
Only people that don't like Shirou are the ones who scream "weebshit" and "VNs aren't games"

looks like I forgot I'm on Sup Forums and not Sup Forums

His power is too deus ex machina in the right hand of someone with a brain

>Gettin' real tired of these self-insert harem MCs.

Name a anime that has this and actually came out good.

Because betafags don't understand a true man like Shirou.

That just proves teh VN isn't a self insert BS desu

Best boy desu

Of course.

Archer was still one of the weaker servants

Man you should put some effort into your baits.

what fucking bait you absolute fucking retard

>selfinsert Shirou
I've never understood this meme.
Clearly, none of us is as good a person as he is.
Nor as naive.
Nor as suave and witful as he can get sometimes.

The only common link I can imagine is the whole liking the school idol thing.

>Nor as suave and witful as he can get sometimes.
Speak for yourself.

Nasu made him to self insert, he himself said so.

And yes, people do self insert as Shirou,he has mystical powers and can summon supperswords, fucking hell he even has a bandaged arm that gives him super powers in a route talk about chunni.

Not to mention he fucks the school idol, the ancient beauty and the school sweetheart.

>b-b-b-but he died in that bad end
Nobody fucking cares about bad ends, yeah Nasu might say they're canon but there's a reason there are true ends and all that, bad ends are irrelevant.

>b-b-but he gets his ass kicked and stuff
So does Issei from highschool DxD, hell the novel starts with him getting killed by his "girlfriend".

>b-b-but he's not right in the head
Neither is onii-sama(the """""""""average"""""""" japanese teenager) that literally has no feelings. Or Kamijo Touma the regular highschool boy you can find anywhere.

Why would anyone want to self insert as him? The only shirou I could see people wanting to self insert as is fluffy shirou from fate prisma. Every other shirou's life is complete shit, sure he might be have a harem and do occasional bad ass things but for gods sake for every one good thing that happens to him 50 bad things do. The dudes fucking arm in HF is the death of him literally.

>So does Issei from highschool DxD
Hold the fuck up
>Die and saved by a mysterious person who later becomes their love interests
>Have secret power inside them (Boosted Gear and Avalon/Trace)
>Go full white knight
>Have talents
>Have blond friend who is a swordsmaster
>Powered up through sexual act
>Red theme
>Deus Ex Machina
Why didn't I see this before?

Picked the fuck up. I'm going to watch it as a bizarre alternate universe FSN

You will be disappointed if you want something like FSN. The motto of HSDxD is go for the plot, stay for the kek, don't take it seriously.

Was expecting to stay for the fanservice, so all in all I think I'm coming out ahead.

I actually teared up for Shirou's Normal End in HF

The anime is more about fanservice, the novels are more about comedy and fights. Even the fanservice scenes are mostly about comedy.

The anime cuts a lot of characters out in order to show boobs, the novel even has other POVs other than Issei.

Honestly the DxD anime isn't very good.

>And Emiya Shirou dies.
>The standing figure is no different from a machine.
>It's programmed to swing the sword, but it's a corpse with no desire to move.
>But even without human intelligence...
>There are machines that weave many dreams in this world.

>Why would anyone want to self insert as him?

>>And yes, people do self insert as Shirou,he has mystical powers and can summon supperswords, fucking hell he even has a bandaged arm that gives him super powers in a route talk about chunni.

>Nobody fucking cares about bad ends, yeah Nasu might say they're canon but there's a reason there are true ends and all that, bad ends are irrelevant.

>>Not to mention he fucks the school idol, the ancient beauty and the school sweetheart.
Do I need to repeat it to you?

Do you think Otaku care about what you said? Yuuji from Grisaia had a garbage life and people still self insert as him.

1-Shirou has weird chunni powers
2-Shirou fucks all the hot girls
3-Shirou was literally made for self-inserting

Yes, people do self insert as him.

>every fictional character who has sex is a self-insert irregardless of their complexity or character flaws.
>Bad Ends don't matter because I say so
>people want to self-insert into Shirou because he has a mutant arm that literally kills him
Convincing arguments. And the classic "Nasu said it!" as if it matters

Are you responding to yourself? if not you do realize the person you responded to said shirou is a self insert the fuck?

It's Spring.

FSN is just bad. It's nice to troll Fatefags because they got so defensive about it, muh MC is not self insert! it's bad translation, yada yada yada. Le secondary boogeyman. Just admit it that it's not very good.

I like it as guilty pleasure, but it's not worth 70 hours of your time if you take it seriously as literary work. It's repetitive, has no nuance, has dumbass MC, and even dumber harem (Saber, Rin and Sakura all must have double digits IQ).

Carnival Phantasm and Prisma Ilya kind of lessen the pain. I legitimately think CP is one of the best anime ever made, sad that to understand the jokes you need to slog through 70 hours of mostly garbage repetitive VN

The series is at its best when it doesn't take itself seriously. Whenever it starts being serious it trips and falls on its face like pic related, le edgy wormsex, or spicy meme combat (how Gil jobbed through plot armor and got defeated everytime).

>>every fictional character who has sex is a self-insert irregardless of their complexity or character flaws.
Having character flaws doesn't make him less of a self insert, it seems that you don't know what a self insert is.
>>Bad Ends don't matter because I say so
Bad ends don't matter because to complete the game you have to reach the final ends, when there's a thing called TRUE end who the fuck believes bad ends matter?

>>people want to self-insert into Shirou because he has a mutant arm that literally kills him
Just like every other Chunni that has a dragon sealed in their arm, yet chunnis love it.

> And the classic "Nasu said it!" as if it matters
How come it doesn't matter you retarded fuck? Shirou is written to be (You) by the author and he himself says so, of course he's a self insert.

Maybe you fuckers get so mad because you feel upset that i'm calling (You) a self insert because you self insert as Shirou-

>admits to being bait in his bait

>Believing falseflags

It's pretty obvious, fatefags do this all the time
>Someone says something
>Suddenly the entire thread is filled with "trolls" that can barely write

It's an obvious way so that everyone dismisses the people saying things as "bait"

Why are you so up and arms about hammering Fatefags on Shirou being self insert? Some randos on the internet ain't gonna openly admit they're wrong on anonymous cambodian imageboard. Just let them be, that's like your opinion, man

This is why Fate thread is pretty much worst Naruto tier now.

Do they? I honestly can't imagine anyone putting that much effort into defending their favorite chinese cartoon on an anonymous mongolian basket weaving board.

It's not about flaws. Shirou is just unlikable by many at first, it's very hard to self insert.

It's irrelevant what Nasu says. Maybe it was his intention to make a self insert, but that doesn't mean he succeed. The end result is that Shirou is not a self instert for most VN readers.

You did admit it was bait though...

>it's very hard to self insert
But isn't like self-insert = "If I was put into his shoes I'd do this and that."?

You haven't seen waifu threads.

I like Shirou because he's a stupid mother fucker that fights for justice no matter what. He's a retard but you gotta respect his resolve.

>It's not about flaws. Shirou is just unlikable by many at first,

Except he's not? Unless you think everyone is a cynical piece of shit? Shirou is a guy that wants to be a hero and save people.

Maybe muricans don't like that kind of characters because you faggots prefer someone like Kiritsugu but everyone else does.

> it's very hard to self insert.
Except it's not because he is literally (You) the story doesn't even advance unless you tell it to advance, (You) are the one that decides what Shirou does.

>It's irrelevant what Nasu says.
No it's not.

> Maybe it was his intention to make a self insert, but that doesn't mean he succeed.
Go tell the countless people that think Saber is "their" waifu because Shirou fucked her.

>The end result is that Shirou is not a self instert for most VN readers.
Except only some retards say he's not a self insert.

When talking about Fate VN people normally say "I did this" "I killed Gilgamesh" "I had to kill Saber" so on.

He's the most uninteresting character of the whole series

Of course. I avoid the things like the plague that they are.

...

The ntr is better

Yes, it's someone you relate to or aspire to be. The problem is that most VN readers (at least from what I'm reading in Western forums) tend to not like Shirou at first. It's only until UBW and HF (especially that route) that they like Shirou.

>Except he's not? Unless you think everyone is a cynical piece of shit? Shirou is a guy that wants to be a hero and save people.

It doesn't matter if he wants to be a hero. People see him as idiotic, even more than Goku. I think it's because other characters remind Shirou is wrong in a more serious tone and Shirou himself points out the flaws of his mentality.

And Shirou isn't even strong in the Fate route.

I'm not saying he can't be a self insert, but he's typically not one by most readers.

Kiritsugu is far more of a self insert, at least at first glance.

>Go tell the countless people that think Saber is "their" waifu because Shirou fucked her.
Well previous posts did claim "outside of the H scenes".

>Except it's not because he is literally (You) the story doesn't even advance unless you tell it to advance, (You) are the one that decides what Shirou does.
You're confusing first person point of view narrative and self inserting. Not the same thing. Tohsaka was the first POV in the prologue. Was the reader a self insert then?

>When talking about Fate VN people normally say "I did this" "I killed Gilgamesh" "I had to kill Saber" so on.
Bullshit, they don't. Stop talking out of your ass.

>Rider, Sakura, and the maids' saggy tits
Absolutely disgusting

>but everyone else does.
no

>cont.

>Except only some retards say he's not a self insert.
Well only retards view things only in terms of buzzwords. The average person isn't very bright but they're also not as obsessed with such dumb labels like you.

>I legitimately think CP is one of the best anime ever made

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Unfortunately. Fuck why does NTR have best art?

>When talking about Fate VN people normally say "I did this" "I killed Gilgamesh" "I had to kill Saber" so on.
Holy shit

>responding to bait

>Tsukihime and Fate are more about projecting yourself as the heroes, seeing through the eyes of Shiki and Shirou while experiencing adventurous scenarios, where the players should feel they have played a very fun game. Mahoutsukai no Yoru is played in the third person, the players can't project themselves onto any characters. They can't place their feelings on top of a character, but instead feel happy being in the position where they can over see the complicated story between the three main characters

Where the fuck does he comes up with this bullshit? Even the lowest of the low of anime forums and boards don't have people claim that.

>Anime forums
>While talking about a game

Good job there retard!

Learn to read.

>also not as obsessed with such dumb labels like you.
But i'm not the one that's obsessed.

You said
>Shirou is not a self insert
I told you that Nasu specifically said he IS a self insert and I added facts about why Shirou is a self insert, the story doesn't even advance unless you want it to, you choose what to do.

And you got buttmad because "muh MC can't be a self insert xdddd!!"

I have no idea why retarded fatefags get so upset about a character being a self insert, being a self insert doesn't mean that a character is bad, it just means that he's meant to be (You).

Now fuck off.

this. If he calmed down a little with his speaking style and changed his voice actor he would be a fine protagonist.

>Nasu made him to self insert, he himself said so.
Getting real tired of this bullshit.

Sauce?

>I told you that Nasu specifically said he IS a self insert
Source?

At this point "Nasu says ... " in Fate thread is akin to politicians saying "the American people want ..." It's practically a substitute to "In my opinion ... "

Sup Forums is obsessed with labels
>haremshit
>moeshit
>fujoshit
>yurishit
>edgyshit
>waifushit
So on and on and on, that's why newfags don't want their characters/series to be tagged into any label, because they're terrified that anons in a mongolian board will mock them about it and that it would make their waifu or husbando lose credit.

Araragi didn't even have a face until the anime came out because of course you can't have a guy with no face as MC. Yet you won't see Monogatarifags saying that Araragi is a self insert, because they feel like it cheapens the character. Even MonMusu fags said that Darling wasn't a self insert when the guy isn't even called by his name 90% of the time and he doesn't have a fucking face either.

But it's just Sup Forums nobody has this problem, I mean Japanese don't care about this, Sup Forums is just paranoic.

Some other user already posted it here, might as well read the thread retard.

>a mentally ill high functioning sociopath with no self preservation instinct that canonically dies over 40 times across each universe is a self-insert

>a character from a novel without images doesn't have a face
Really makes you think.

>implying people choose the bad end to self insert

>Some other user already posted it here

There's not a single link posted. Greentexting something doesn't mean that you quoted

>>a mentally ill high functioning sociopath
That's contradicted several times in the series, like when he shows love and worries for other characters. His hero persona is also contradicted by the way, like when he jokes about Ayako learning from being raped.


Even then, are you fucking with me? Chunnis love intelligent nihilistic and with a wicked sense of humor characters(not that Shirou is like that), how the fuck can you say it would put them off that Shirou is mentally deficient when they LOVE mentally deficient characters?

You do realize Nasu himself is a maximum chunni right?
>t that canonically dies over 40 times across each universe is a self-insert
We've been over this already, Bad Ends are irrelevant literally every VN has them.

Fate/SN is no exception, to complete the game you have to get to the end where you're rewarded by True Ends, even when you die in Bad Ends a tiger dojo appears that says
>You fucked up, now go back and do

And no, posting "bait" pics doesn't make your opinion any better.

this dude die for a ideal he will never reach
he's ok with that

>The Secret of Mahoutsukai no Yoru's Birth

>Published in TYPE-MOON Ace 2

Self inserters doesn't go on bad end and said "yep that's it, route's over." They reload the game and pick the other option.

It's the same deal with any game with character creation and player avatar. You died probably hundreds of times first time playing Dark Souls. Still doesn't detract from the fact that your silent protagonist player avatar is a self insert medium.

"Bad end" arguments hold no merit in determining whether a character is a self insert or not - that's just the virtue of the VN medium being akin to video game.

STILL
>There's not a single link posted. Greentexting something doesn't mean that you quoted
Sorry I don't read moon.

LNs have illustrations senpai. In case you didn't know.

Monogatari isn't an LN, and it doesn't have illustrations in between pages like LNs do. Only covers.

>STILL
>There's not a single link posted. Greentexting something doesn't mean that you quoted

I gave you the issue where it's published, what more do you want me to do? Is it that hard for EoPs to find a translation even knowing the Title of the issue?

And by the way if there was interest the main character would appear in the covers, of course he doesn't since what the series sells is waifus.

Serious question, why are you getting so animated about hammering the "self-insert" thing?

Say the Fatefags are wrong, what do you gain from it? The VN doesn't become any less better/worse.

The VN is not legitimately good to begin with, FSN is basically Chuunibyo Urban Teenage Adventure. Is it wrong to have a self insert MC on Chuunibyo Urban Teenage Adventure?

>Serious question, why are you getting so animated about hammering the "self-insert" thing?
Is this some sort of "umad" bait? I already replied to you You're the one obsessed over Shirou not being a self insert, I'm just telling you that he is. Actually nevermind i'm not repeating things I've already said

>Say the Fatefags are wrong, what do you gain from it? The VN doesn't become any less better/worse.
Did I say anything about the VN getting worse or getting better? In fact I told you that him being a self insert doesn't make him bad, just makes him a self insert.

>The VN is not legitimately good to begin with, FSN is basically Chuunibyo Urban Teenage Adventure. Is it wrong to have a self insert MC on Chuunibyo Urban Teenage Adventure?

Read above, stop putting words in my mouth.

>English Wikipedia as source
Embarrassing. This is the initial line on the Japanese one: 「〈物語〉シリーズ」（モノガタリシリーズ）は、『化物語』（バケモノガタリ）を始めとする、西尾維新による小説シリーズ。

Kodansha Box is publishes regular novels in a fancy tankoubon format, not light novels; why did you underline it? In addition, it doesn’t include any images in-between pages, which is one of the aspects that sets apart a light novel from other formats. It isn't an LN.

>Current year
>There still isnt a:How to be Shirou Emiya wikihow guide

>Trying to convince fatefags
You do realize that this is the same people that say the MC from Extra is not the player?

>That time when Pokemonfags got incredibly mad because someone said the "choose boy or girl" is a self insert

kek

One of the aspects. Thanks for agreeing

And again
>And by the way if there was interest the main character would appear in the covers, of course he doesn't since what the series sells is waifus.


I'm not interested in this dicussion by the way, try to get someone else hooked in your bait. See ya

Oh just like your average self-insert harem protags?