>"Back in the 70s and 80s, animated shows were made for a much wider general public so there were many more general corporations that would sponsor general shows. But since the 1990s, animated shows became geared more towards a deeper and narrower audience, so they became increasingly subsidized by DVD and prerecorded VHS sales. Thanks to that, my shows such as Cowboy Bebop and Samurai Champloo could have creative freedom. However, since the 2000s, there has been a sharp decline in home video sales, so it has been difficult for productions to recoup production costs. Because of that, companies have become increasingly conservative and only venture to make shows that would ensure sales such as moe titles. That has been the issue since around the millennium. Around that time, I myself had a lot of experimental or adventurous titles that I pitched and pretty much all of them went on hiatus. Basically when I tossed the pitch to companies, the first question back would be, 'so, where’s the pretty girl?'"
>this thread again >"A lot of animation is extremely 'samey" >anime was almost nothing but science-fiction robots and beautiful little girls, and it just gets boring after a while. >Animation based on popular comic books and giant robots and big-eyed girls with shamefully skimpy costumes will continue to fill the screen." -Kon, 1999
>I don’t think there’s any bright future. That’s because the people who are producing it are not doing well. >The people who make it, and the people who want it, they’re always wanting the same things. They’ve been making only similar things for the past ten years, with no sense of urgency. -Anno, 1996
>Panda Kopanda was made, well, how many years ago was it, when Japanese TV animation was at its lowest. If you look at the history of TV animation, there are many such "lowest" times. It's still at a low even now. -Miyazaki, 1995 (Panda Kopanda was made in 1972)
> I frankly despise the truncated word "anime" because to me it only symbolizes the current desolation of our industry. -Miyazaki, 1988
>The general theme in currently popular shows seems to be that the protagonist jumps on a giant machine he couldn’t possible have created on his own, battles the enemy in it, and then boasts about winning. I frankly hate these kind of shows. -Miyazaki, 1979
>The hallmark of Japanese animation became works with a great deal of pretension, where vaporous and extremely deformed characters inhabited distorted and flashily colorized worlds. -Miyazaki, 1979, talking about the 60s to early 70s
Christian Butler
Why does Miyazaki have some sort of complex about anime?
He seems so critical of it, yet produces great works, yet still remains critical of the fact that others don't follow his "ambitious" trail that the blazes.
Does he just wish for a world that can never exist?
Cooper Clark
We already knew that, Watanabe. Don't rub the salt and broken glass in.
Elijah Nguyen
He knows how potentially beautiful and stunning animation can be, how free a medium it is for story-telling, and despises that the medium is not being used to its full potential.
Parker Sanchez
>Why does Miyazaki have some sort of complex about anime?
Wouldn't you want the thing you pour so much passion into to be wonderful and diverse instead of the same shit people keep buying? And the best part is, the stuff he made did very well, so you can't even say he's wrong.
Gavin Flores
there's a reason academics don't really put much weight on what artists and authors have to say.
John Lopez
>The people who make it, and the people who want it, they’re always wanting the same things. Could it possibly be, maybe, that this is perhaps the ideal situation? No, impossible.
Nathaniel Bell
Miyazaki hates mecha? What a fag.
Wyatt Lee
My impression is that he'd really rather have been a Western or Russian animator. He loves foreign animation, and he loves the Disney-inspired model/approach that Toei used to use before Tezuka, but unfortunately for him that model was completely impractical for TV anime and died out fast once Tezuka showed up and everyone started focusing on limited animation. He and Takahata were more or less the only really major TV anime directors before 1980 who weren't trained at Mushi Pro under Tezuka's philosophy, so they were the stylistic outsiders, and then they went and segregated themselves off in their own private movie studio while the stuff they (or at least Miyazaki) hated continued to dominate the industry up to the present day.
Like I said, his approach is not really feasible as an industry-wide TV model. It lost out in the 60s because it was objectively inferior on that front - it can be extremely successful in small doses, but it's not a large-scale model. There's a reason TV animation didn't take off until Tezuka came along.
William Price
Because academics never even got to become has-beens and get paid jack shit too.
Isaiah Lee
>waaaaah why can't everyone make shows that line up with my standards Because you're a narcissist, Miyazaki.
Carson James
not really. all artists have to make a place for their work by disparaging what others in their medium do, regardless of quality. miyazaki is no exception. pretentious fucks have been decrying the debasement of X for millennia.
Hudson Jones
>He loves foreign animation, and he loves the Disney-inspired model/approach that Toei used to use before Tezuka, but unfortunately for him that model was completely impractical for TV anime and died out fast once Tezuka showed up and everyone started focusing on limited animation.
The lack of budget wasn't Tezuka's fault, it was because producers at the time never saw animation outside of big movies as anything other than a cheap advertisement. The fact that Tezuka was able to make a functional TV series out of his shit budget is a testament to his genius. If it weren't for him Japanese animation would have never took off the ground and the Japanese the people at Toei like Miyazaki would have kept on making poor Disney imitations that tanked at the box office.
Daniel Cox
Shut the fuck up Cimabue, Giotto was objectively better.
Colton Cook
I absolutely agree with you, that's why I said there's a reason TV anime didn't take off before that.
Wyatt Perry
Space Dandy S2 when?
Anthony Mitchell
>back in the 70s and 80s, anime was designed solely to sell toys >then they discovered the otaku market: a niche thirsting for "DEEP COMPLEX ANIMES" who would buy those, and they began to enjoy doing that instead of just churning out a handful of children's cartoons about giant robots/super sentais made to advertise toys and paid for by toy companies
Jose Myers
Pretty much this. This "decline" is just elitist butthurt, nothing more.
Hudson Jenkins
>That has been the issue since around the millennium. Around that time, I myself had a lot of experimental or adventurous titles that I pitched and pretty much all of them went on hiatus. Basically when I tossed the pitch to companies, the first question back would be, 'so, where’s the pretty girl?'" > since around the millennium But Watanabe's only projects before the turn of the millennium were Macross Plus and Bebop. He didn't create Macross Plus - Kawamori did and hired Watanabe to direct it - so that's irrelevant here since he's talking about ideas he comes up with. And Bebop almost didn't get finished because the Bandai division initially funding it withdrew support midway through when it became apparent it wouldn't sell spaceship toys to kids like they wanted. And then the first run had to be aborted partway through because it was a drastically censored executive-meddling cut that no one liked.
So "since around the turn of the millennium" in this context really means "literally my entire career." For Watanabe's entire career, starting with the very first idea that he ever turned into an anime, he has had trouble convincing companies to support him because those ideas haven't been commercial enough for them. So he has literally no experience of a time when you could propose unusual ideas without meeting resistance, but he's sure that things must have been like that back in the 70s before his time, he just knows it.
tl;dr Watanabe's another retarded nostalgiafag, get over it.
Austin Scott
M.D.GEIST "M.D." STANDS FOR "MOST DANGEROUS." THAT'S RIGHT, AS DANGEROUS AS ANYTHING CAN BE!! A MAN WAS BORN OUT OF A BATTLE. His fighting capacity, his alone, corresponds to that of an army. That is why people call him "M.D." THE MOST DANGEROUS MAN.
Kevin Reyes
You're leaving out an important part of his character. He's an M.D.S. which is to say, he's the most dangerous soldier. He's just a soldier.
Much more interesting than the rantings of a man who wishes he was Disney.
Elijah Rodriguez
If you actually enjoy good anime hopefully you've figured out by now that there's a pattern in niche media where outsiders with creative ideas find place to make cool stuff because the the bar for entry is lower in terms of funding and corporate oversight. Doesn't matter if it's pulp novels, record labels, anime or comics/manga.
He's not saying all anime produced under the modern model is bad (his "adventurous" anime might be total shit after all) but he's saying that it's harder to take creative risks.
>Meanwhile, it's time for the fiftieth rehash of a popular manga to be turned into an anime
Jackson Turner
I think he hates how unrealistic mecha pilots are portrayed, not mechas themselves. Miyazaki likes mechs if you care to look into his works.
Caleb Sullivan
Oh no, other artists aren't in the position to get 3,000,000,000 yen budgets like I do. And if he truly respected animation he would let animators individuality show.
Charles Lee
What he hates isn't the lack of realism, he just has a pretty autistic hang-up about the fact that the MCs are given a mech and win with its power. This is the full paragraph: > In Japan today, animated TV shows filled with all kinds of fancy, robotlike, mechanical creations are all the rage. I have certainly drawn lots of mecha, or mechanical things, myself. but the general theme in currently popular shows seems to be that the protagonist jumps on a giant machine he couldn’t possible have created on his own, battles the enemy in it, and then boasts about winning. I frankly hate these kind of shows. I don’t care what types of robots are featured. For me, in a truly successful mecha show the protagonist should struggle to build his own machine, he should fix it when it breaks down, and he should have to operate it himself.
Hunter Nelson
This seals the deal. The old man is literally autistic.
Jose Sanchez
I agree with him and the: >"where's the pretty girl?" thing is pretty worrysome. Still Space Dandy was shit, CB is highly overrated and Samurai Champloo has many shit episodes.
Jose Lopez
Well I still wasn't wrong, he doesn't hate mechs per-se.
Bentley Hall
>Space Dandy was shit
I wish I could hate you to death.
Carter Butler
>Space Dandy was shit What a waste of quints
Isaac Peterson
I knew it, moe is killing anime
Charles Cruz
>WHY WON'T THEY MAKE ANIME LIKE MEEEEEEEE
Jack Gonzalez
It's not moe. That's fine in a diverse environment. The problem is it's the only thing selling so producers are only funding those projects.
The problem is that the average nip isn't going out and buying dvd's and figures.
Jeremiah Hill
>simpson meme
Brayden Wood
>the audience must adjust to what i want, not the other way around!
Joshua Stewart
So, in conclusion, anime was never good.
Ayden Howard
That's not what he said though.
got it right.
Lincoln King
>penn gillette meme
Jaxon Gutierrez
>It's another Grandpa's nostalgia goggles thread.
Noah Morales
I always see the fact stated that :"home video sales are declining".
If that's the case, why not mature your medium into realms that are going to make money as society moves towards the future?
Some studios are embracing streaming, but it's incredibly non-lucrative. They need to take hold of that medium and turn it into something sustainable.
Oliver Green
He wants anime to be used as a vehicle for one's personal love of animation and/or to tell stories that have positive effects on people or make them think. But most stuff is just big boobed woman doing absolutely mindless things and telling pathetic stories with the goal of people buying their big boobed woman merch.
Brody Walker
>The problem is it's the only thing selling The five top-selling TV anime this year so far have been KonoSuba, Macross, Re:Zero, Joker Game, and JoJo. None of those are CGDCT, and two don't even have female characters in the main cast.
Nathaniel James
I love the fact that no one in the industry gives a fuck about his wishes and we can continue to get nice titties in anime. Tell grandpa to fuck off already
Gabriel Allen
You will be old one day too, and you will nostalgia over your moe shit.
Jayden Nelson
>cute girls >cute girls >cute girls >you got me >fujobait
Juan Young
I like cute girls doing cute things shows but damn there's like 20 of those shows every season. It gets tiring.
Kayden Moore
As you could have seen if you'd read the various Miyazaki quotes in this thread, he has far more issues than just that, right down to the way robots are operated. The guy was just born unhappy.
Jeremiah Roberts
>moe girls and comedy >moe girls and mecha >I don't know because I didn't watch this one >no moe >no moe Fujobait isn't moe (at least not inherently, and certainly not in JoJo's case).
Nathan Allen
>Joker Game was in the top 5 selling
THANK YOU BASED PRODUCTION I.G
Elijah Howard
>like 20 of those shows every season There are literally two this season. And there are ~40 shows total. Go abck to Sup Forums and stop shitposting about a medium you don't watch.
Easton Baker
What about One Piece, DBS and .. Toriko it was?
Aren't these the "big three" or something.
Adrian Wright
...
Gabriel Diaz
We just pretend those don't exist or else it'd be unfair.
Jeremiah Allen
...
Austin Ross
This. Toriko is literally the best-selling anime of all time, it'd be silly to compare any other ongoing anime to it.
Grayson Morgan
I'll admit I was exaggerating, but come on, there are definitely more than 2. Generic moe and harem shows dominate every season.
Austin Lewis
he's worked in studios since like the 80s or 90s
and he's not complaining, he's stating a fact, that it's harder to get something made unless it appeals to certain demographics because there's less monetization.
Samuel Baker
Stop posting smugs and just answer the user's question.
Sebastian King
So who is at fault?
A: The public for not caring about his shit?
B: Watanabe, for making irrelevant shit that no one wants to see?
If he really is complaining about not being able to produce shit that he likes, he should crowdfund a project. Why should a studio bear the risk of supporting his work when their is little profit to be made?
It is simple supply and demand at the end of the day. There is no demand for what he is peddling, so he has to blame everyone else for his marketability shortcomings.
Zachary Parker
>he's worked in studios since like the 80s or 90s Yes, but he's talking about launching his own ideas/projects, and he didn't do that until Bebop. He's drawing on his own experience and saying "since the turn of the millennium" like there was some shift, but he doesn't have any experience turning his ideas into anime before that.
Gabriel Cruz
This is pretty funny >Cute girls doing comedic stuff >Mecha stuff with a focus on the cute girls, but is also a long running franchise >Novel adaptations where merch has focused on two girls >Military-suspense >Adaptation of a very old, fan-favorite series It actually hits all the bases well for what most popular anime are
Jacob Nguyen
>Cowboy Bebop and Samurai Champloo Literally R*ddit and Hop Topic animes
Logan Gutierrez
>there are definitely more than 2. Nope. New Game and Amanchu. Plus Love Live if you count idols as CGDCT.
>Generic moe and harem shows dominate every season. Harems aren't CGDCT, but again, no. The only harems this season are Masou Gakuen HxH, and Ange Vierge as a yuri harem. So CGDCT and Harems together make up at most ~12% of the season.
Hunter Butler
>Cute girls doing comedic stuff What? Did you even lurk Sup Forums while Konosuba was airing, let alone watch it? It's not CGDCT at all, it's a parody of isekai harems.
Dylan Thompson
that's probably his opinion. That guy needs to be more diverse and sell shit to fund art. Whatever happened to flexibility and variety? It's like he's blaming the progression of the arts on financial statistics when he simply just has to work on a piece. Worry about the ratings later. Art is art, don't sacrifice it for ratings.
That is a tough thing, considering law and all, but the reality is, not everyone is really familiar with prospects beyond the red tape and so forth. It is a tough industry to sell in the first place really.
Juan Carter
Ignore Miyazaki, he only liked kidshit anime
Nathaniel Morgan
Kiddie shit anime is better than otaku-pandering shit though.
Christopher Myers
>Shinichiro Watanabe confirms that the MoeBump after the financial crisis was real and not just in the imagination of "normalfag" animegoers.
Based Shinichiro
Lucas Gray
He hates Tezuka and Disney though.
Dominic Turner
People have been complaining about "moe" since the 80s, nothings changed and nothing will change.
Ian Scott
Eh I think they're about as bad. I can't watch either.
Dylan Miller
Source?
Evan King
>I'm butthurt that no one liked Stoner Dandy or Zankyou no Terror.
That's all what I'm getting from this.
Matthew Perry
>people still pretend bebop was good
Jaxon Evans
He definitely doesn't hate Tezuka - he's said he was annoyed at himself for how much Tezuka influenced him, but he still acknowledged him and was influenced by him nonetheless - and I doubt he hates old Disney, either, though he isn't a fan of a lot of the rotoscoping they did for their humans.
John Richardson
And? you will still get old one day and have nostalgia over your moe shit.
Unless, of course, you die earlier.
Chase Reed
It increased from 2008-2013 before falling off again.
Daniel Moore
It's also why there's not much of a point in complaining about Tezuka's impact on TV anime. Tezuka's movies (the few he managed to do) weren't at all like his TV stuff and some of them even went experimental at times.
Samuel Wright
ZnT is nothing like Bebop though. Also if they hadn't made the mains moralfags it would've been far more controversial and thus gotten more viewers
Asher Rivera
Joker game sold almost 10k and it was dogshit. I don't see whats stopping wannabe from releasing a drama with a male cast and a dull color palette
He shits on a bunch of other famous names like Fleischer too.
Anthony Thomas
Meant for >I found myself disgusted by the cheap pessimism of works like [Mermaid] or [The Drop], which showed a drop of water falling on a thirsty man adrift at sea. I felt that this pessimism was qualitatively different from the pessimism Tezuka used to have in the odl days, as in the early days of [Astro Boy], for example – but it also could have been that in the early days I felt great tragedy and trembled with excitement at Tezuka’s cheap pessimism precisely because I was so young. (194)
>I felt the same thing with Tezuka’s Tales of a Street Corner – the animated film which Muschi Pro poured everything into making. There’s a scene in the film where posters of a ballerina and a violinist of some such things are trampled and scattered by soldiers’ boots during an air raid and then waft into the flames like moths. I remember that when I saw this, I was so disgusted that chills ran down my spine. (194-5)
>Now I’ll refrain from going into too much detail because I don’t want to belabour the point, but when I saw [Pictures at an Exhibition], I really wondered what the heck the film was all about. And in the last scene in Cleopatra, at the line, “Go home, Rome,” I felt disgust. They had spent so much effort trying to develop so many sexy love scenes that the final “Go home, Rome,” line was just oo much for me to take. that was around the time I really sensed the bankruptcy of Tezuka’s vanity. (195)
Evan Barnes
And on Disney:
>Disney’s Cinderella. . . is living proof that modeling live-action images in the pursuit of realistic movement is a double-edged sword. In trying to achieve a sense of realism by using an average American young woman as a model, they lost even more of the inherent symbolism of the original Cinderella story than they did with their version of Snow White. (74-5)
Ayden Murphy
>hating based Popeye man
Is there a bigger cunt than Miyazaki? Fuck that jii-san.
Admittedly I haven't watched any of the Tezuka films he's talking about. I only watched Hi no tori, which I liked, but the manga was better. The old Astro Boy TV series was indeed low budget though.
Jace Edwards
It's a known fact that Miyazaki hates excessive referencing and rotosope.
Alexander Morales
This.
Ryder White
No, he appreciates Tezuka but considers him a hack, especially in his animation:
>Many publications ran memorial features on Osamu TEZUKA upon his death in 1989, and while most experts and insiders would memorialize him in these articles, Hayao MIYAZAKI, while acknowledging Tezuka’s achievements as a manga author, criticized him harshly with regards to his activities within the field of animation, leaving many around the world dumbfounded.
>“But as far as animation—I say this believing that on this topic alone I have the right, and also some duty to say this—Everything that Tezuka-san had spoken about or advocated was wrong.” (“Tezuka Osamu ni ‘Kami no Te’ wo Mita Toki, Boku wa Kare to Ketsubetsu shita ”. Miyazaki, Hayao. Comicbox, May 1989)
>Miyazaki sharply criticized Tezuka by saying that he believed that as an animator, Tezuka was a “Novice” and an “Unskilled Enthusiast”, but that despite this he was able to use his fame as a manga author to create his own anime company which then began to produce television anime, severely warping the direction of the Japanese animation industry.
I also love this article because it points out Miyazaki's inadequacies as a mangaka.
Adrian Edwards
That's pretty reasonable. When markets don't cater to me or move from catering to me as they increase in popularity I direct my anger at the demographic that changed the thing I like. Nothing wrong with that.
Jaxon Jackson
Fuck I love this
Hudson Bailey
And my point is there's going to be some faggots remembering shit like erased or re:zero as "classics" and how "moes ruined the medium I remember the old days when it used to be good" far in the future just like today's born in the wrong generation fuckers that think 90s was the best decade for anime when in fact it was the worst. Just like today, just like 20 years ago. It's all just nostalgia trying to find a scapegoat to blame the "decline" of the industry to.
Julian Ramirez
And my point is that you will be an old nostalgic fuck at some point in your life, too.
Jason Walker
>cute girls check >doing comedic stuff check
Lucas Hernandez
i don't think crowdfunding is really a thing in japan
and the foreign crowdfunding market barely supports singular episodes, let alone series
Parker Morris
I think you mean >cute girls >cute girls >cute girls >Fujo bait >Fujo bait
Ethan Wilson
>One guy says anime is dying! >Okay, let's listen to the chump because his name is all the proof he needs!
Dominic Moore
>people check >talking >check Konosuba is about people talking, guys.
Jose Smith
I think Mayoiga was actually crowdfunded, but I do think that it'd be difficult to crowdfund a project
Liam Miller
Poor people who ordered Mayoiga. they probably thought they were getting a Higurashi clone
