Catholic General

How was mass today?

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sage

>Catholic generals every Sunday for the past 3 years
>Slide thread
Back to the_donald with you

>go to confession a week ago Saturday for the first time since Easter
>get wasted last Saturday night, miss mass, jack off a bunch during the week
>feel like shit
>girlfriend who now lives out of state is causing all of my stress
>my mom (who is not Catholic) tells me I should start dating other women
>total mindfuck, she's never said this about any of the half dozen serious girlfriends I've had
>out and about this past Saturday and on a whim am moved to go to confession at a random church I was near
>bro tier Russian Priest
>flat out tells me to dump my girlfriend, start dating other women, stop beating off, make a list of things to do solo and socially to make myself a better man
>asks me to repeat everything he said to make sure I was actually paying attention
>go to vigil mass immediately after confession
>it's beautiful
>go to Mass today
>break up with long distance girlfriend
>feel great
>visit parents, tell my mom how things happened
>go back to mass
>fells even greater

God is good. Letting yourself get hung up on women who are not wife tier is not good.

>mfw

t. pagans

You'll fall off the wagon. The rules of Orthodoxy and traditional Catholicism were written when conditions made following them relatively easy. Now conditions are fucked, yet the rules cannot logically be changed. This is central to people abandoning the old (respectable) Christianity in droves.

Nah, you're just new.

Will be image dumping.

...

And what were these "conditions?" It has never been easy

WOLFSHEIM wow! nice to see you. 'Thomas' here... as in Thomas Acquinas being my patron saint.

Wow, so much has happened in the last couple years. Not sure if you remember chatting me up. I became Catholic after dating a Catholic QT and going to Palm Sunday mass and having a very powerful experience.


Anyways, things are good, except for the usual problems with women and shall I say, sexual sin. That and I screwed up big time with someone I loved greatly. But life must go on.

How are you doing?

...

it's 7 in the morning, what fucking mass

Is it weird that I like dark, simple, and severe, better than ornate? For example, medieval Cistercian.

The Bible itself talks about this.

>But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

People turning away from God because they want to indulge in the pleasures of the flesh rather than following Gods commandments is not unexpected at all. Quite the contrary the nature of man is well known to God and the tendency of people to follow their own hedonistic desires rather than doing what is right is simply what people do. It's why we're sinners.

did confession and communion earlier today. it felt great, like a hot bath. church is like a bath for the soul or something.

Getting married when you're a teenager, and having an obedient wife who puts out. Never having to think much about too many children (contraception). Not being visually assaulted by under-dressed women everywhere, on everything. Not having the luxury of overeating because of lack of funds and necessity for long, hard work. Having easy and frequent access to the old sacraments, and having society and state and culture uphold and imbibe the value system.

My Italian brother, it's still Sunday in the western USA.

sorry for the typo on your name Wolfshiem.

see

I have a question about Catholic morality.
Let's say you have two cases
>case 1: There is a baptised, practising Catholic man who is in a homosexual relationship. He is from a liberal Catholic family and goes to a very liberal parish. For his whole life, he was taught that homosexuality was not a sin, and any Catholic who thought otherwise was "misinformed". There is no way for him to know what he was doing is wrong.

>case 2: There is an extremely devout, traditionalist Catholic. He was Catholic his whole life, knows doctrine inside and out, married at 20 to a devout wife. And has two children. Even though he is wealthy and earns enough money and has enough time to support another child, he simply just doesn't want to spend time raising another child. With his wifes agreement, he starts using natural means of birth control despite having no sufficiently just or grave cause. He knows that he is committing a sin, and wholly and willfully defies God by living in sin.

If both die suddenly, will case 1 go to heaven or hell? will case 2 go to heaven or hell?

10/10 job, man. Congratulations on the self-improvement.

I'm content to let God sort that one out.

Good for you user. God bless you.

>practicing catholic man
>in a homosexual relationship
no such thing

I can't say for 2 because I'm not educated enough.

In the case of 1, the law is written on his heart, so that he has no excuse. I too have been told my whole life that my homosexuality is okay, but I didn't need to be told that it was wrong. I submitted (though only intellectually, not in action) to my conscience, which said it was wrong the very first time I was tempted with it (which was very young, before the wider homophobic culture could have impacted my attitude on such a complex issue).

There is one at my parish (not in a relationship though). All I can say is he definitely knows its wrong. Sucks though cause not many other Catholics have the balls to tell him his lifestyle is wrong and he should stop. I do though.

I didn't go because I've been having loud, sloppy farts all day and didn't want to do that in church.

Great. the bishop was there and the music was fantastic. Church was overflowing too. I went to confession on Saturday, so I received communion. Lovely.

Both go to hell

It sounds like you're just blaming the times we live on for inaction or personal deficiency

>case 1

Homosexuality is something that "cries to the heavens for vengeance," people know it's wrong. Why do you think there are so many gay pride parades? Homosexuals feel guilty for participating in sodomy, and they want to try to lessen this guilt through very public displays of their proclivities.

>case 2

If he was devout and traditionalist, he'd know that, as follows from natural law, that fertility is a part of sex, and if he doesn't accept that, he's living contrary to the natural law


As for going to hell, Catholics do not claim whether or not specific people go to hell

Rhythm method is still birth control and is mortally sinful

if he's causing scandal like that then I wouldn't classify him as a practicing catholic.
maybe venial but not mortal.

Do you honestly believe it is a choice? I cannot, under any circumstance whatsoever imagine wanting on any level to do anything like that. They are fucked in the head, pure and simple. It's birth defect, improper development in the womb.

Something could be said to be sinful if it frustrates the natural result of a certain act. The rhythm method does not work against the possibility of conception. Therefore it is not sinful.

If you claim otherwise, then you'd logically have to also claim that it's sinful to have sex with a woman when she isn't fertile.

Stop worshipping bread, images and women

>then you'd logically have to also claim that it's sinful to have sex with a woman when she isn't fertile.

Would this not be sinful if you sought out marriage with such a woman knowing that she was infertile? Catholic canon law requires that licit marriage be consummated, and that consummation requires the possibility of conception. This is why the infertile are considered called to chastity.

>Catholic threads every Sunday for years
>pic related plebbit faggot piece of shit

worship the body of christ and venerate his virgin mother. do it now.

He is definitely a sick man, he even is taking some psychiatric meds for god knows what reason. I just wish I could get through to him. The liberal parishes like mine are not helping. I pray to God that normalization of the level that is at my parish doesnt come down the tubes through the top Catholic brass.

The worst part is he barely, if ever, goes to confession. HE DEFILES THE EUCHARIST ALMOST EVERY MASS. DRIVES ME INSANE. And if I speak up the liberals will dog pile me.

From the catechism:

2374 Couples who discover that they are sterile suffer greatly. "What will you give me," asks Abraham of God, "for I continue childless?"164 And Rachel cries to her husband Jacob, "Give me children, or I shall die!"165

2379 The Gospel shows that physical sterility is not an absolute evil. Spouses who still suffer from infertility after exhausting legitimate medical procedures should unite themselves with the Lord's Cross, the source of all spiritual fecundity. They can give expression to their generosity by adopting abandoned children or performing demanding services for others.

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm

I pushed myself to the point of borderline nervous breakdown for 5 years to live a traditional Catholic existence. I amassed a library of books on moral and ascetical/mystical theology. My reading and efforts ran the gamut from early desert monasticism, thru early 20th century Catholic writers. That I still couldn't keep from falling into mortal sin (as defined by the Church thru history) finally, along with the logical impossibility of squaring Vat. II and NewChurch with traditional Catholic teachings, forced me to conclude, this is not the one true faith, this is human, all too human. I'll go to my grave a non-Christian, with absolutely no fear whatsoever of God's anger over it.

Case 1 although committing a grave sin does not have knowledge of it thus might not be mortal (but then one could argue that everyone knows it is sinful and he would have to be living under a rock and wilfully ignoring God to keep being homosex). The thing about the sacraments are that they conform you to Gods will so he would probably receive inspiration his gayness iis a sin and if he persisted would be committing mortal sin.

Case 2 the guy commits a mortal sin I think. So hell for both

...

I'm incredibly lucky to have the parish I have in my town. they only do novus ordo but the priest is pretty based. in his homilies he says stuff like homosexuality is evil and protestant churches aren't even real churches.

You're not supposed to be able to stay free of mortal sin, only Jesus managed to do that.

And what about Vatican II goes against traditional teaching?

Sounds nice. I am kinda excited to get to a more traditional parish someday when I move out of my current situation.

In Macabees the Old Testament religion is called Judaism

>natural means of birth control
If he is using natural family planning instead of using condoms, abortifacients, or a vasectomy he would be good. He is still open to the possibility of life but is making a choice not to engage in sexual activity during ovulation, which is not a sin. If he uses any of the methods mentioned above to prevent pregnancy he would be thrown out to the whaling and gnashing of teeth.
The fag cannot claim invincible ignorance on this matter gravely disordered matter. If he was a true member of the faith he would put the time in and research with a catechism. The resources are there for him to find the truth. But since most liberal Catholics do not bother going in depth in any real matters of faith he would most likely be fucked for all eternity in hell.

I definitely remember you, man. How amazing it is to see you after so much time. After reading you say "women" I worry you're not with the same woman though. You are definitely keeping strong it seems, though. Heck, man, how was 2016 for you even? It's been so long.

Things have been... rough, here. The past few weeks I've been wrestling with what to do with my future and not quite sure how to apply my Catholic knowledge like in these generals to other outlets.

Of greater importance I've... honestly just falling away from God recently. I failed horribly recently in sin and became an affair for an engaged woman of whom I'm good friends with the couple. She needed a friend and I fell for her advances and did injustice to her, my chastity, and her fiance. While the relationship drama had been cleared up I have myself becoming just complacent and consistently failing and falling to different sins. Without confession, let alone mass. Between work I'm just drifting in and out of complacency and just feeling guilty. And I don't feel like actually trying to progress applying my Catholic knowledge into my future if I cannot at least myself under control. The past two weeks have been pretty crap.

Sorry to throw this all on you but I do not mean to lie to you. I consider you a good friend, despite how little we've actually spoken.

first you go to the priest and then you go to the church. if you brought it up at a prayer meeting or something would it really be a big deal? maybe it's cause I live in the deep south but I can't even imagine having that problem.

Everyone has their aesthetic taste.

Abstaining from sex during fertile periods frustrates God's will as man is willing himself to not have a child and using methods to do so.

Very good. First time in a long time I was able to receive Holy Communion without having any sins to confess first. It's also my birthday, and being able to go to Mass with a clean conscience was the best gift I could ever get.

But it's really good bread

it's not a some kind of scientific method with 100% success rate. even in ancient rome people understood it was more like a coin flip.

If you know that your wife is in a fertile period, are you then required to have sex with her, with it being a sin if you don't?

As Christians we must dissent to Popery and the Antichrist.

t. Presbyterian

You're not supposed to be in constant need of confession to avoid Hell after death either.

I'm not going to get into Vat. II and the all new sacraments, canon law, catechism, etc. that it spawned. I spent years on that, I'm tired of it. No objective, honest person can look at the Church today, and the Church of 1850, 1650, 1250, etc., and say they're fundamentally, essentially the same. Yet, both are sealed and binding by the infallible Extraordinary and Ordinary Universal Magisteriums of their relative times. Logical contradiction, Church defection.

>I failed horribly recently in sin and became an affair for an engaged woman of whom I'm good friends with the couple. She needed a friend and I fell for her advances and did injustice to her, my chastity, and her fiance. While the relationship drama had been cleared up I have myself becoming just complacent and consistently failing and falling to different sins. Without confession, let alone mass. Between work I'm just drifting in and out of complacency and just feeling guilty
You know, I know a way you can be permanently forgiven and relieved of that guilt you feel, that doesn't require confession or mass. You just need to do one thing: Give up. Stop trying to escape sin and damnation. Let God do everything.

Just confess in the confessional. I try to go once a week. This past Saturday went really well, I was tearing up from joy by the time I was done. We all fall away at times it is normal for us. I believe in you.

You're all good. My name was always deliberately misspelled.

>There is a baptised, practising Catholic man who is in a homosexual relationship. He is from a liberal Catholic family and goes to a very liberal parish. For his whole life, he was taught that homosexuality was not a sin, and any Catholic who thought otherwise was "misinformed". There is no way for him to know what he was doing is wrong.

God's moral law is innate to everyone. I would say we could not know, though it is obviously mortal sins is the relationship led to sodomy or marriage.

>There is an extremely devout, traditionalist Catholic. He was Catholic his whole life, knows doctrine inside and out, married at 20 to a devout wife. And has two children. Even though he is wealthy and earns enough money and has enough time to support another child, he simply just doesn't want to spend time raising another child. With his wifes agreement, he starts using natural means of birth control despite having no sufficiently just or grave cause. He knows that he is committing a sin, and wholly and willfully defies God by living in sin.

Natural means of birth control, if you mean Natural Family Planning, is not sinful at all. There's nothing immediately wrong, here. Perhaps an implication of selfish desire with the change of tune on kids? Maybe not? Don't think either could rightly be called mortal sin.

even if that was true doesn't mean christians should become like rebels. the new testament teaches to obey those in authority, that they do not wield the sword in vain. and this was written around the time romans were persecuting christians en masse. the wars that protestants waged against catholics during the 'reformation' were unchristian no matter how you look at it.

>You're not supposed to be in constant need of confession to avoid Hell after death either.

But you are. Confession is the means of keeping pure, knowing that every sin must be accounted for in confession. Does the social aspect of confession alone not help a great deal in keeping free of sin, or were you not 100% honest about your sins with the priest?

I'm genuinely asking by the way, not trying to attack you. I'm about to convert myself, and I've never even been to confession.

It has a 96% success rate compared to condoms 98% and pill 99%. Anyway it's the intention. Doing things because you think it will thwart God's will is gravely sinful even if you're not successful in thwarting God's will

Just got a new Priest. He's a Poo and is shockingly redpilled. Pretty sure the homily today triggered a third of the Mass.

>You're not supposed to be in constant need of confession to avoid Hell after death either.

Well when you die, things are more or less decided.

>I'm not going to get into Vat. II and the all new sacraments, canon law, catechism, etc. that it spawned. I spent years on that, I'm tired of it. No objective, honest person can look at the Church today, and the Church of 1850, 1650, 1250, etc., and say they're fundamentally, essentially the same. Yet, both are sealed and binding by the infallible Extraordinary and Ordinary Universal Magisteriums of their relative times. Logical contradiction, Church defection.

Why not? Surely if a teaching changed, it should be obvious

There has been a push over the last few decades by modernist Catholics to teach young people that NFP is the "Catholic alternative to contraception". Catholic sex education literature, even stuff that is usually traditionalist use the language of "anyone can use NFP", "everyone SHOULD use NFP".

But on paper, NFP is still a dispensation, that is only to be used with a "just and grave" cause. And previous Popes have written about it, emphasizing that it can't be used for selfish reasons. Not even financial reasons that aren't grave enough.

It's a bit rigid and impractical at the moment, and it probably will change. The modernists are gaining ground. But that isn't the point.

The point is, it is concerned with the sanctity of marriage, and therefore, it is a grave matter. So if someone abuses NFP with full knowledge and full consent of the will, is it a mortal sin?

The dude in question wasn't married, so what's the problem? I wouldn't necessary tell him to dump his girlfriend, but depending on how long she was supposed to be out, breaking up might've been a good choice. A year - you can get past that. If she's quality girl, it would be worth it, definitely. A few years? You're certainly wasting your time.
case one should stop the faggotry the moment he learns it's a sin and he's going to be saved.
In case 2 I don't see anything wrong with natural means of birth control. Where in Bible it's said you need to have more than 2 children?

Man and wife sin if they are not regularly having sex. It's not a sin to abstain for agreed periods but its a sin to intend to thwart God's will for you to have children

god doesn't change but people do.
and isn't vatican II a giant tome as big as the bible? have you read the whole thing?

>tfw too autistic to go to confession
>tfw don't know when to go to confession
>tfw missed the Mass yesterday

I was on a morning short mass desu

>It has a 96% success rate
maybe your right but I've suggested similar things to women before and they looked at me like I was fucking crazy

Who gave Satan a Sup Forums account?

No it is not. NFP as a whole is fine.

We don't

Confess to Christ once and never have confession again

>lat out tells me to dump my girlfriend, start dating other women, stop beating off, make a list of things to do solo and socially to make myself a better man

He sounds like a /fit/izen. Nice.

It's a cross you're burdened with. Really heavy one. It's a choice of holding yourself back from fornicating with dudes. There are some therapies for gays and gay lesbian marriages for Catholics. I don't know if therapies work, but such companionship quite often does. No one wants to be alone.

Its because; and I know this sounds crazy, it could be seen as a form of "hate speech" or bigotry. He has been outspoken about he wouldn't tolerate such behavior. Its crazy I know.

Yes, and if you abstain for a period and then have normal sex afterwards, that does not thwart the possibility of children

Early morning Mass is comfy af.

>wake up with the sun
>go to mass and receive Communion
>go out for breakfast afterwards
>spend the afternoon either relaxing, working around the house, or out in nature

It isn't satanic, it's the gospel of grace
>There is therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus
Romans 8:1

>Doing things because you think it will thwart God's will

What if someone who is a classical determinist and Catholic (like me) thinks that God's will cannot be thwarted?

I went to weekly confession for 1 year, on Saturdays. I was very thorough and honest. I had my old prayer book from the 1920's, and prayed and meditated and wrote down my sins as it instructed (I wasn't a nut about it, I just did what I'm quite certain devoted Catholics pre-1960's did). It was a great help, until the week came along, and the combined effect of pressures, agitations, frustrations, strong natural urges, depression made me fall again. The first priest I went to was very surprised at my being thorough (pre-1960's) in my confessions, and quickly grew annoyed by it, assuming I wasn't actually trying I believe, and that I was being haughty and anti-Vat. II Church in spirit also I'm quite sure. The second older priest didn't really have the faith anymore I believe, and just wanted to keep things easy and decent, and be kind, and let me do my thing.

ask the deacon or somebody else when the priest does offers confession. they might have the times on a bulletin somewhere.

This has proved ineffectual. It does not save, for I remain in sin. I have confessed a hundred thousand times over by now. It is simply ineffectual. If that is your salvation then it is worthless I'm sorry to say.

I want regeneration, not merely a passing thought of sorrow followed by endless backsliding.

Morning mass. don't you have these?

Scrupulosity is hard for people; they think their sins are so uniquely terrible that they eventually doubt the power of the Sacrament. Look at the Arch Heretic Martin Luther: he would confess multiple times a day, including the same sins over and over because he had convinced himself he was unredeemable and incapable of actually living a virtuous life.

What's surprisingly poorly known is that the priest who hears confessions also assigns himself a penance for the sake of those whose confessions he heard. We're literally never alone in fighting sin.

I've found that 99% of the time when people constantly fall into sins (especially the same sins over and over) it indicates a problem with either their prayer life or avoiding sources of temptation. As in, they aren't praying outside of confession or they aren't making the changes to their life necessary to avoid sin because they are too attached to the sin.

So "once saved, always saved?"

Lol

Indeed, first the Roman-Catholics were made to feel welcome, then the Mahometans. Everyone posting unironically in this thread has a lot to learn. Papists are not friends.

>suffering a woman to teach

Not even once hombre

>TvxS5Xt4
This is a heretic who needs immediate deportation.

pretty good, I liked today's gospel and the priest said pretty much that kikes are retarded for wanting to dissect the 10 commandments so much they ended with over 500 commandments, I liked how Jesus told the jews that the most important ones are the first and second. the priest told us that to love god above all we first have to love ourselves, and only by loving ourselves we can love our brothers and by loving our brothers as much as we love ourselves is to give our love to God above all else because we all come from God and are part of him.

Love yourselves brothers!, love thy neighbor for it's the path to give our love to God in it's fullest

It does if you keep abstaining during the fertile period.

God can see through such a coincidence and read your heart to know that you're trying to thwart his will

Really dude just start taking Maeng Da Kratom and your gay urges will go away after a few months. For real.

there's a way you can phrase things to sound better and that's why my priest usually does. he says what could be construed as hatespeech but in the nicest way you can imagine. all Sup Forumslacks should do the same, the world might become a better place.

Dulling my conscience is no solution at all, nor does it led to a relieving of guilt and forgiveness. Your solution leads to cowardice, rather than virtue. Surely you're wording something wrong.

Such things are more important than anything else and yet I do not know how to handle this complacency. I will work on it and head to confession the earliest I can get over to it. Thank you, man. I will work on it.

Don't you leave me hanging, though. Are you and the girl still together?

Creatures of free will can thwart God's will. Calvinists are retarded and imply God is evil.

Do tell!

Ask.