A basic income for everyone?

Yes, Finland shows it really can work - Mark Zuckerberg, Bernie Sanders and Elon Musk back the idea. And trials suggest it can liberate jobless people from a life of humiliation.

theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/31/finland-universal-basic-income

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=oDkHLPanjkQ
playspent.org/
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They've been toying this idea in Canadian media with polls recently. In a local one it was 56% not in favour. A bunch were undecided though

Can I get Finnish basic income despite not living in Finland? If no: Why are they so racist and capitalist?

Of course a universal income would be a good thing for most people. What does it matter though? If the last 4 elections show anything it's that germans really, really, don't want a functioning welfare state.

Where is money for welfare going to come from when no one has incentive to work?

Scandinavia is pretty much cashless, they don't even have costs printing it.

No.

t. poor fuck who would get all the "rewards" of everyone getting "free money"

also if these billionaire fucks think it's such a good idea, why don't they just take their billions of dollars and split it up and redistribute it to all the poor people

No wonder you're poor.

If everyone has access to a basic level of income, then all prices will eventually inflate to include that level of income at every level.
Cheap goods will get more expensive, while expensive goods will adjust at a lower percentage. It's dumb.

/thread

I'm poor because I don't fall for communist wealth redistribution policies

fuck off

Where is the manpower to provide for everyone going to come from, if no one works?

People still work, 560€ is close to nothing in Finland.
Also immigrant slaves, think of rich oil countries like Kuwait.

shhhhh leeches and burger flippers want to believe in the fantasy

youtube.com/watch?v=oDkHLPanjkQ

When you teach your population that no one has to work, no one will. Who do you think will take a job of a janitor when you can do nothing and get paid just the same?

Not only that, but UBI would also serve as a stepping stone to erode the welfare state.
>"Oh you don't need that to be covered by the government, you've got UBI! Neither do you need that, that or that."

Yeah TFM!!! BTFO the commies in disguise!!

I'd rather have basic income for everyone than welfare for degenerates only desu.

basic income has to be only for 18+ though.

A janitor in Finland makes 3000€. Nobody loses the incentive to work just because they get 560€.

Were you born this retarded or has methanol dissolved the few brain cells you were born with, comrade?

>giving free money to people, no strings attached

oh gee, what could possibly go wrong?

Imo they should keep the old welfare system, and introduce a 'sort of' UBI as well, and you can choose which you claim. If you claim the old system, you will have to prove you are looking for work actively, attend training, etc. If you get the UBI-type money, you will have a one-on-one session every now and then with a bureaucrat who will ask you what you are doing with your time. I.e.show that you are doing something productive (training, education, starting a business, volunteering, etc). A basic income can be great if its given to people on the basis of capability and proven work ethic. In the same way that the government doesn't give research grants to highschool dropouts who want to 'do physecks an shiet', a basic income will be most beneficial if its restricted to people who are trying to do SOMETHING. Else its just going to increase inflation and decimate the middle class.

Fuck you communist trash.

Get a job, no government is going to save you from "humiliation" you have to do it yourself.

People are going to argue that literally nobody is going to work if they can live on government dole instead. But you can literally do nothing in Finland and already get money for nothing if you want to live NEET life or be alcoholic. It just requires filling bunch of paperwork each month.

So the current system is bad because it enables the leeches but fucks over people who have fallen to hard times and don't know how to navigate the bureaucracy.
It is entirely possible to save money by switching to UBI by, for example, attaching it to tax data, which in Finland is handled completely electronically, and paying only to people who don't earn enough. You might pay some people who don't really need it but on other hand you get massive saving from no longer needing all the people to process the applications.

/thread

This anglo gets it.

You don't live in Finland. You live in America which is 56 percent white and dropping. You won't get a beautiful Scandinavian-Socialist styled UBI. You'll instead get Venezuelan tier handouts that eventually lead to the collapse of your country as the dumb shitskins continue to breed and overburden the welfare state.

UBI means no more gib-me-dats, which is why you won't see it in America anytime soon (Puritan establishment values expanded bureaucracy, bribes to keep the minorities peacable, and voting plantations). And all the patriotards brainwashed by 'muh gommunism' divide and conquer disinfo will continue to resist it, of course.

Betcha didn't know Nixon put together a UBI bill that sailed through the House but was torpedoed by the Senate.

Victor Hugo said that nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come. UBI is an idea that's definitely worth considering, but it's a long way from meriting the mainstream attention it's getting. With automation and AI coming online in the near future that conversation will receive the support it's due, but for now it's too early.

If the government provides a basic income will they abolish the minimum wage?

Wasn't it already tested in a few different countries with good results?
I think I read an article about that, but was a long time ago can't remember correctly.

This

Sounds like a good trade off. If welfare programs are kept to a minimum and there’s no minimum wage, a UBI would be good.

So where my UBIbux at? Nowhere to be found, I have to jump through hoops almost every month just to get what I'm supposed to get! Fake news!

Finland doesn't have minimum wage laws, it's technically handled by unions but people who would be paid something resembling minium wage in other countries aren't union members so...

>Basic income
We already have that, its called WELFARE. Do you libcucks actually think youre gonna get anywhere near minimum wage an hour for nothing?

This might be a little hard to understand for a lot of people, but nordic/german/dutch people generally enjoy working and being productive and have a feeling of community and purpose. It's usually people from the Mediterranean and warmer climates that like being lazy.

Hello, finnfag here

The thing about Finland is that it suffers from chronic unemployment, high cost of living, high taxes and chronic stupidity at the same time all while infested with extremely left leaning socialists that think this will all go over as smooth as immigration of thousands of unemployable arabs with no skills to a country with mass unemployment

Part of me that likes this idea knows that the current system is of welfare and unemployment benefits system is extremely regressive and rigid that does nothing but make people poor by or turn people into grey job markets and thus prevent any growth. As a welfare receiver you can face penalty periods for receiving income, such as delayed payments with obligations to file tax reports and employment information to authorities

The idea itself, that you'd get your damn welfare regardless and thus could stop worrying about losing your house, getting delay fees and freezing your balls outside while chewing your nails for dinner just because you dared to work a bit of overtime to support your kids and earned taxable revenue.

But of course it will create loiters and more unemployment, even have an affect on actual wage levels but you can't just up and go full "go-capitalism" when the infrastructure of the country is socialistic democracy of the first kind

Any jurisdiction with UBI becomes a company town of indentured servants (whether they have to work or not... over time with no incentive nobody will want to do work). If this leads to an equilibrium where society continues to function but those with jobs simply have a higher standard of living, it becomes like a dilution of the company scrip. Just get into bitcoin now. Don't let them dilute your money by giving your work to others.

>The thing about Finland is that it suffers from chronic unemployment, high cost of living, high taxes and chronic stupidity at the same time all while infested with extremely left leaning socialists that think this will all go over as smooth as immigration of thousands of unemployable arabs with no skills to a country with mass unemployment
Sounds like a democrat hellhole:DDDD

This is an inevitability. Within 20 years half of the population will be displaced by automation. You can't have a functioning economy without a basic income under those conditions.

Finland is still mostly white and Finnish. Try this fucking horse shit in the USA or even here, it won't work at all.

Not sure you're quite grasping his point there, you shitty Leaf.

>Also immigrant slaves, think of rich oil countries like Kuwait.

Those immigrant slaves will be the ones on basic income you fool.

Not if they make it in a way that Finnish get bux and foreigners get to work.

What if we limit the number of births per family to one, checks in what the money is actually used for and do what said, a basic income only allowed to people who are actually trying to do SOMETHING.

>But of course it will create loiters and more unemployment
There are probably people who salivate at the thought of getting !100! euros after rent per month to live with. The effect of these people no longer working will be quite minimal. More likely, anyone who would stop working to live on UBI is already on NEET bucks, so nothing will change.

Current plan is Citizens only. Which would actually help with unemployment, because you could pay unskilled workers far less, making it basically impossible for foreign hordes to be able to afford to live here.

Cut all social programs, and just give everyone a check for $1,000/month. I would be fine with that. It's also what Charles Murray suggested in "In Our Hands."

Yep total fucking disaster

Remind me of that ""game"" where you're a single parent billed and taxed out of the ass for whatever reason and you have to survive the month with only 1k.

>EVERY NATION HAS THE SAME DEMOGRAPHICS AS FINLAND

Fuck off, retarded liberal cunt.

playspent.org/
just imagine this, but with 1k extra from UBI.

UBI is life support for zombie capitalism, it is NOT a leftist idea. The end game of capitalism is to enslave everyone with omnipresent consumerism while everything is owned by the rich.

All of Europe should be paying America massive amounts of money for taking care of all their defense for the past decades.

Basic income will remove innovate and give major transnational corporations further monopoly.
Necessity is the mother of invention.
The need to feed your family is a pretty good necessity.

I don't owe you shit.

Isn't he idea behind UBI to replace almost all forms of welfare?

If it wasn't for us you would be speaking russian right now.

we paid for everything we got from the US. The US didn't do shit for us so fuck off you fucking 62% degenerate.

>Socialist ideals work in largely homogeneous, white civilizations
yyyyyyyyyyyea duh

>universal basic income
>€560
Are they joking? That's not universal basic income, that's jobless support. Universal basic income is literally decent salary, which goal is to provide people with decency in life so they can actually buy house and a car. €560 is nothing, refugees in Germany get more.

Works fine until you run out of someone elses money. I don't care anymore. The west is burning.
The end is coming, slower or faster. I just want a nice quiet remote farm as far away as possible and never come back. I want to insulate myself from the world as much as possible and wait to die.
I just want to farm, make beer and wine and cheese, ride 4 wheelers and hunt while the world burns. I don't want to be part of this world anymore. I envy my ancestors, they had a new untouched world to go to. Every square inch of earth is governed now. There is no new frontier. No new lands. Only eventual slavery to government and private businesses. The new nobility. World war 3 would be a blessing.

can I learn finnish and find a job as a codemonkey?

Go suck a nigger's dick, you whiny little bitch, and fuck off.

If you have degree, you don't even need to learn finnish, IT sector operates in english.

Am I the only one who doesnt understand how this shit is supposed to work and how it is any different from welfare?
Someone somewhere has to be making a net loss in order to pay for this bullshit.

So, welfare for everyone or just the poor?

Girlfriend lives in this bumfuck town called Pori, probably better to know Finnish to apply for the 5 IT jobs that are there. Either way if I am going to move to Finland learning the language is probably my highest priority.

This is all under the assumption that they aren't poor because they suck as human beings and can't offer anyone anything of value.

The idea that this will somehow improve society in some way, make us more productive, competitive or economically driven is bullshit. Control and regulate automation and don't make bad trade deals with other countries. Invigorate job creation.

Naive beliefs about poor people being poor cause of mistreatment or because of means outside of their control suggest that this kind of program would work.

Pic related.

>learning the language
Hahahahaha.

>never been a NATO member
>it was the 3rd Reich who helped Finland against Soviet Union
>Finland even declined Marshall aid after the war
>has had a strictly neutral foreign policy ever since
get fucked americuck

Enjoy.

>can I learn finnish
I don't think you can.

Individualist pussy. Don't even mention your ancestors. Im sure they're rolling in their grave at thought that their progeny didn't stand his ground and went running away to his safe place.

If she lived a bit further north or south, you could have gotten away with learning a Germanic language. Unless you are going to marry this girl or live there permanently, don't get too over-invested in learning the language. The grammar takes ages to learn (Viel schwieriger als Deutsch desu), so knowing the basics (ordering beer, etc) is probably a good compromise since most people don't speak much anyway, and 99% of people can into English at least a bit.

Do you have any examples of this policy working in a majority black or hispanic country?

>wtf I want to be a serf with my life dictated by an elite technocracy now

The problem isn't that being jobless is humiliating...

The problem is that working with and especially FOR women and non-whites is humiliating for a white man. And it will never not be, no how many layers of brainwashing they try to put between the nature and man.

I don't care, I broke out of the 9-5 paradigm a long time ago and I live in America 1 but I'm just stating the facts.

I probably would not even consider moving there if I did not think it would not be something permanent. Although for work I suppose my finnish does need to get somewhat decent at least.

Wouldnt you still have to work if your basic income doesnt cover your cost of living though? And wouldnt you be taxed exorbitantly to cover for your basic income?
Wouldnt you also be confined to the tax area covered by your basic income?
If welfare doesnt even cover rent then how are you expected to just live off basic income?

What the fuck.

>Although for work I suppose my finnish does need to get somewhat decent at least
If you're a coder then you ought to get by fine with just English. It's the sicc bant'z that you need to learn Finnish for. Just kidding, Finland is autistic as fuck and we hate smalltalk.

You can pool your resources with others.

>What if we limit the number of births per family to one
Fuck off

We'd be speaking Finnish and learning German as a second language if it wasn't for (((you')))'s

I support it on the condition that other benefits are cut in conjunction with it.

But given the current economic outlook in most western countries; I think it's feasible.

Basic income is a scam to cause inflation and drive large portions of the population into higher tax brackets so they pay a larger percentage. The net result is that quality of life does not improve, but tax revenue increases.

UBI is just a clever tax hike

What the fuck happens with UBI and low end jobs?

Who wants to become a janitor or a fast food worker?

Sounds nice honestly. Still a couple more months until I can move so I'll just dedicate 1 hour or so a day to learning some finnish. What do you think my chances are for landing a job when applying from Germany? Would rather have one before moving

It only works if you're country's full of Finns.

>If everyone has access to a basic level of income, then all prices will eventually inflate to include that level of income at every level

That moron argument only works in combination with the moron argument "employers will start paying people less because they ~~have a second income~~ *because they can*"

UBI doesn't put more money into the system. It creates no inflation. You just confuse the way prices are supposed to work. Also this bites the argument "everybody will stop working"

>employing more useless bureaucrats
nah

You can acquire a UBI right now, it's called investment income.

Privatize social security and make it so every person is required to invest part of their income. Allow these investments then to be passed down to children (unlike social security benefits which end once you die). Within a few generations most Americans would have some sort of basic income which they would inherit.

We could just raise the minwage to 100/hr that would fix things.

Niggers still wouldn't raise their kids proper

>Commies make farce UBI trial with tons of cherry picking and blatant lies
>people actually fall for it

ITS FUCKING CALLED WELFARE AND EVERY COUNTRY HAS IT

>And trials suggest it can liberate jobless people from a life of humiliation.

Looking at the guy in your picture I would say that nothing would liberate him from a life of humiliation.

>Whitest country
>Something might work

Kill yourself parasite.

So does this mean I can play Vidya all day while collecting NEET bucks?