Automation and jobs

Will automation help the economy?
Will jobs be gained or lost? Which ones?

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how stupid are you? if everybody loses their jobs then nobody will have any money to buy anything therefore making robots useless

I use self-checkouts all the time, it's about 10x faster than waiting in line or even just waiting for the idiot cashier to do their thing.

Plus I resent the number of middle-aged people I see working these menial jobs. They should be reserved for students and the elderly/handicapped/retarded. I'm tired of these women shitting out 2-5 brats and working at Walmart, but because their """income""" is so low they get a million grants and their kids get ghetto scholarships.

Read Heinline
For us the living
Capitalism post robotics needs a UBI

Who's to say that our economic systems won't have to change radically once human labor is no longer needed?

Robots replacing us is inevitable. We just need to figure out what to do after.

somebody needs to make the machines, op.
somebody needs to maintain the machines, op.
somebody needs to engineer new revisions, op.

this is called progress.

society will shift to only one of two things over the next 20 years.
>everybody is an engineer
>everybody is at war

luckily, war requires engineers.
looks like war is the safe bet.

Suck it, faggots with no marketable skills.

The only problems with automation are wealth distribution, logistics and population skill set.

machines will do all those tasks

yeah the modern rich are reprehensible and noblesse oblige seems like a fairy tale we tell each other rather than something that actually happened in the days of old, what else is new?

Fuck Reagan.

Yes
All jobs, eventually.

I hope my job at Walmart isn't compromised. I've been there over 13 years and I can't see myself doing anything else, well, there are no other NJ observed I it there anyways that can meet or exceed my current wages.

machines simply can't take the place of professions like engineers, programmers, researchers or (good) artists. It will take a long times for machines to completely take the place of doctors or nurses, anyone doing maintenance on machinery or what not. It would be insane to give them political power so these jobs aren't going away either. Forgetting how mechanically complex and software intensive it would be, how do you get a robot to do the job of a paramedic or policemen or firefighter in an ethical manner considering how many ethical issues people have with a computer doing the relatively brain dead task of driving, like how would a lawyer deal with the possibility of an accident caused by a malfunction? On that note how the hell would they take the place of lawyers or judges?
These professions can't possibly be dominated by robots.

It will help the big corporation. Hell, the stocks will probably soar. However, everyone else will be fucked. Very few jobs being fought over by everyone. We still have a few decades before that happens. So enjoy your pre-apoc world.

All right Sup Forums I'll help you out.
Let's say we get robots to do all the menial work for us, in fact, let's say we get robots to do all the work.
So there are no doctors, lawyers, fry cooks, mechanics, etc everything is handled by robots.
Now if you're a blue pilled retard you're probably excited by the concept of not working but consider the following consequences
1) Moral, physical, social, psychological degredation from lack of strife.
You think NEETs are bad now? You ain't seen nothing yet.
2) What do you think the trillionaires of the world are going to think of you once you no longer have a function? Right now you're goyim, useful as long as you don't cause too much ruckus. What do you think happens to people when their only value is gone?
Robots have to be stopped, even if it means collapsing civilization as we know it.

Automated ordering is great! It removes the one step in the ordering process designed to screw up my order.

>automation is bad
lel "capitalist conservatives" are literal primitivists

>20 years ago everyone did the jobs we did now a few outliers
>but 20 years from now litterally everyone will be forced to be an engineer

Doesn't sound like that can go wrong at all

You guys are high. Technology has been steadily killing jobs forever. Now, it is going hyperbolic. Why do presume any of us is invited to the party when all that can be automated is? We are not. In fact, we are a significant threat. Look at the literature on sustainable development and overpopulation. You, faggot, are the herd which will be culled. Welcome to Google.

I'll take that challenge and work to develop machine that does those things you claim cannot be replaced.

hunter gatherers lived in small, self-sustaining groups. No such thing as business owner and employee.

Once you have employees pumping out services (like building houses) to masses, you then set yourself up for automation, where employee isn't even needed anymore.

We need to return to the system that worked for billions of years, not this stupid capitalist system where slave workers do repetitive zombie work to create mass produced shit.

>machines simply can't take the place of
You are wrong

Just kill the trillionaires and problem is solved. More of us than there are them, and bank accounts mean nothing post labor
>neets are bad
this is false

If you can, you'll be rich.

NEETs hate themselves because they don't have to work, which is essential in developing strong character.
It's one of the primary causes of autistic niggering imo.

In 50 years machines will be capable of high-level thinking that engineers, consultants, and doctors are capable of.

>being a ludite
Kek

Laws are easy to automate, all laws are, are if-then functions

>NEETs hate themselves
This is also not true
>have to work is essential
This is false. People work, everyone works. You can't not work. A human, if left alone to their own devices, will set about working on something. This work is simply not, in the case of a NEET, a job.

By and large history shows people doing what they want to do typically do that thing better than people doing things they do not want to do. Science was really kicked off, for example, by rich people tinkering because it was fashionable. They were effectively NEETs.

Jobs are unnatural. For most of human history people worked, but they do not have 'jobs'. Do not conflate the two.

Machines are already more accurate at diagnosing than doctors are.

Of course this is on average. Im sure there are more complex things that require doctors still

You are just making shit up.

Now im loving it.

Joe Average is a retard and needs jobs to function. Sure some people have hobbies, most don't and are incapable of developing them. They're cattle, the one thing the Jews are right about.

artificial intelligence is not even really a correct usage of the word intelligence. There isn't really any intelligence involved. This whole artificial intelligence thing is garbage. Nobody has invented any such thing. It doesn't exist.

And these people will be left alone to sit around watching reality TV or whatever it is they want to do.

Humans are a lottery. The goal is just to get as many humans as possible and see what they do.

>Will jobs be gained or lost? Which ones?
Eventually all jobs will be lost
youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

>you are wrong
If you'd take a look at how far robotic has advanced, where it's currently standing, the fundamental technical hurdles related to it, the complexity of accomplishing certain tasks and how well a machine can realistically accomplish these tasks, and if you had even just a surface understanding of the subject at hand, you wouldn't be spouting retarded claims like that.
If you think otherwise, feel free to follow the same career path as , it will be highly entertaining.
p.s keep in mind I never said some aspects of those jobs currently done by human can't be done by machines in the near future, just that machines simply cannot take their place completely in the next century(ies).

It'll be fine. Corp.s will lower price of supplies to maximize sales. The 40 hr work week will reduce to 35/30/20 hr work weeks. Everyone will have less money, but staple products will be cheaper than ever.

The most we will see is a shift from inflation to deflation and a new class structure with lower middle+working class merging, upper middle growing slightly and becoming wealthier and super rich still being super rich.

The only real threat is Socialism/welfare states becoming popular and ending class mobility.

The more we develop automation, the less Democrats and cuckservatives have an argument to keep flooding us with third worlders. Carry on.

>UBI
That's not how you spell eugenics and population control

Can't have a worker's revolution if there are no workers.

ai boils down to neural networks, which is really a fancy term for a data structure and algorithms that simply create a maths function.... there is no intelligence. It is dumb. It can classify letters and shit. Wow....

When we automate congress it will be an improvement

I have seen old white men and women storm out of Mcdonalds, furious because they don't know how to use these machines, or because they want a person to help them. Americans are too stupid to intergrate with technology. At least the old, white ones.

Not really, but a common misunderstanding.

Laws are in part if-then functions. But these if-then functions are a framework in between and surrounding some really gigantic subjective judgements.

E.g.:

Norwegian law says your organization is tax-free if it's not run for financial gain.

IF it's run for financial gain, THEN here's a long list of consequences.

IF it's not run for financial gain, THEN here's a long list of completely different consequences.

HOW do you determine if it's run for financial gain? Extremely subjective.

This is law. Law isn't a system of if-thens, but an administrative framework of if-thens surrounding core judgements which are very much subjective.

Why buy fast-food anyway?

>are if then function
Tell that to a lawyer. Really the best way to deal with it is try to do it yourself.

Only if we prevent lefties from writing the command laws

Engineers already use computer software to perform almost all the calculations for them. A modern design engineer today draws something in a CAD program and all the high level calculations he studied at university are done for him in the background.

Your inability to recognize the extension of this software just shows how ignorant and close-minded you are.

I am a software engineer who can create neural networks and understands how they work. You are most definitely not....

>implying minorities can deal with the systems any better
you are right though that boomers are hopeless

They'll just get fat and die. They need purpose just like everyone else they just lack the gumption to do anything about it.
Even if the Jews don't try to kill everyone off after automation, it'll happen due to low birthrates.

there will be a long period of social unrest regarding old jobs. new jobs will obviously be created over time that anybody can do, but that doesn't matter when you're starving or can't afford to pay the rent in the immediate moment. basic income is necessary since capitalism is finally strong enough to create socialism

Can't wait for taxis to go automated to be completely honest with you m8.

The only people who think computers are now super smart are people not in the industry.

also a LOT of people are going to fucking die

some jobs are just robotic and don't require intelligence thanks to the industrial revolution. I doubt civil engineers is one of those jobs though.

>f you'd take a look at how far robotic has advanced, where it's currently standing

When i was young they were claiming that bipedal motion was impossible for a robot. Now look at us just a few decades later.

Automation will work like this.

First factory jobs. This is largely already under way. This is the easiest because you dont need mobile machines, you can make machines to just do a simple action and its not very complicated.

Next will pure mental jobs. Architects, composers, most doctors and scientists. Things that can be done purely in software

Finally, skilled labor that requires mobility and dynamic adaptation to the environment as well as human interaction with people that is not 'too weird'. This encompass things like plumbers for example. These will be the last to be automated. It will required more advanced AI to do this than to replace engineers, since interacting with other humans and our physical environment is the most complex things humans do, not abstract thought.

rape, pillage and maybe war

From observation alone. I have seen the minorities at least try to use the machines. It's the baby boomer old folk that literally turn into 5 years olds because they don't want to use these machines.

>That's not how you spell eugenics and population control

This is a bad argument because under these situations the amount of humans 'required' is not a fixed number, its a percent of the whole. You start eliminating people you just need fewer people, and so on, untill the richest person eliminates the second richest person and just has all the machines do his bidding.

Who cares? Still being a cuck to the corporate Jew are we?

Yeah but super ai will already have better intuition than any human ever, who's to say they wouldnt be better at determining laws (as spoopy as that sounds)

More jobs for us in IT

Lots of jobs can be automated, but those jobs should never have existed in the first place. We don't have to follow this path of industrialisation and automation and so on.

KILL MAIM BURN

>A modern design engineer today draws something in a CAD program and all the high level calculations he studied at university are done for him in the background.

This is literally bullshit. This is like people who claim that using libraries means you never have to think while coding. Sure, if you want something basic, but what those calculations do is free up your attention to focus on higher order problems.

This is honestly a good thing. The less you have to worry about trivial details, the more effective your time can be spent.

Most (not all) jobs will become automated eventually. This is inescapable.
If governments/society will be able to change enough for it to work without everything collapsing remains to be seen.

>purpose
Sure, everyone does. People obtain purposes when left alone.

A job is not a purpose, it is an affliction. Work is when you are putting effort into creating something, a job is a set of instruction your follow to get paid fiat money. Sometimes they overlap, sometimes they dont.

>low birthrate
Maybe. At this stage however we might already have moved to everyone being born in an artificial womb. Complete and total automation is still a long ways off. The thing is society needs a plan to deal with it and deal with the many stages of increasing automation on the way. If you just try to ignore it things will simply get progressively worse when a job-based society starts running out of them.

Internet literally didn't exist 50 years ago. But nah, high level thinking software is never gonna get there lads :)

Such robust ai development has been stonewalled. Its just another lucid dream. There only so maby things you can do with ai

>creating people in artificial wombs for no purpose
Never going to happen. The human race will die off except for the most powerful, richest people. At that point, it'll probably be kike-run world government. Yay.

>dont have to
but why shouldn't we? Our goal is to become as numerous as possible as fast as possible and spread to the stars so we cant get taken out by a gamma ray burst or some such.

Remember nothing anyone has ever done matters if we do not survive to remember it. Nothing.

You don't even need to go to a doctor any more unless you need a prescription/referral/note as everything is online. I would even say that physiotherapists are obsolete as everything can be found online and you can get your family to help you if you need a second person.

>no purpose
Not having to carry a baby around is reason enough. Being able to closely monitor its condition as its developing is a bonus.

>riches people
no such thing post labor/scarcity. These rich people are the largest threat. They may hold back our ascension to keep their power gradient. Greed will be the final test. If we overcome that we will make it.

I drive a forklift for a living. I think I'm safe for the foreseeable future.

As many jobs as can be automated will be automated

Is the automation making burgers?

Also there are people who avoid them and go straight to the cashier, sometimes there are lines at my local Mcdonalds with people ignoring the thing.

Blue collar jobs are over kids...

Humans have not existed for billions of years

True story. People start yelling and get angry when they are told they have to use the machines.

No, they are the safest. Enjoy your STEM meme.

all I know is that those ordering kiosks are literally better than any shitty mc donalds worker I ever had to deal with.

what a blessing, now I might actually visit more than once every two years.

I said as many jobs as could be automated will be. Also, the solution will be universal income. It's inevitable. Watch.

>Will automation help the economy?

Yes,
Worrying about automation is silly; it creates jobs in the long run. You still need to design the machine, program it, maintain it, design it's aesthetic, improve on a previous model

>STEM
>everyone thinking jobs in this field will be the hardest to automate
>what is the current year

youre an idiot. it reduces jobs, and thats a good thing. universal income is literally the only way things can work.

Help the economy? It's going to change how we all live forever. I hope you already realize that.

>No one was paid to program that console. No one is paid to maintain the console. All efficiency gains are terrible and we should all be subsistence farmers.

You're right dude there's no mechanism in humanity that would prevent Adam from killing Eve.

I know i think its funny, that communists Socialists and Marxists think we will live in a atheistic utopia. It will result in alot of people not working sure some will love it and live like a damn slave with a allowance. Look at youth bulges, ect, if that many people lose work their will be conflict its inevitable.

Besides a question to all the leftist scum, if automation and robots will replace many jobs like you say, then why do you demand more unskilled even uneducated labor, this will only exacerbate long term problems associated with automation of jobs.

How about 3d printers? I want print my own food.

100 jobs < 100,000 jobs

No but the THREAT of automation, if hyped up enough, can do wonders

>they were claiming that bipedal motion was impossible for a robot.
Whom? "They" also claim the earth is flat
>First factory jobs.
Yeah that's usually trivial, never said otherwise.
>Next will pure mental jobs. Architects, composers, most doctors and scientists. Things that can be done purely in software
That's ridiculous. It's even more ridiculous to place all of those in the same category, to really think you can place "thinkers" and "mobility and dynamic adaptation" in these two neat category. No small overlap either, plenty of software directly applicable to one would also be for the other.

We don't even completely understand human interactions in scientific sense, we for the most part don't really have a good theory of the mind. A theory for getting a computer to not only predict how well an audience will typically receive (let alone produce it) something as complex, nuanced and subjective as music isn't even on the drawing board, as currently standing it's pixie dust. Outside some of the awfully repetitive music with 3 or 4 different notes in total (that might sell, simply because the computer just has to chuck out a bunch of different combinations until something catch), that will not happen any times soon. It's even worse for (good) architects, added technical component and the artistic component is vastly more complicated still. (maybe not for a human, definitely for a machine)
>most doctors and scientists
Well that just means over 50%. That possible, never said otherwise. More so for doctor than scientist imo. Although not the number of doctors and scientists, just 50% of what they typically spend their times doing nowadays. Their probably would be more of them, even proportionally to the population, at lease for scientists.

We have these at mine i never talk to humans there now

this, i dont know why Sup Forums is so against it. it is inevetable. they probably will do some robotics tax and fund basic income with it. in the next 10 years robotics will kill millions of jobs.

We're capitalists, aren't we? Our choices in where we spend our money matter (to them even), and we should take advantage of it. Don't spend your money wherever there are automated McDonald's kiosks, unless you're some pathetic asocial autist.
"N-n-num-number f-five please...".
"Is that all Tomoko?"
"Y-yeah..."

We can stop this Sup Forums.

This is the most autistic thing ive ever read

Underrated post.

Imagine that you are a member of the .01% or whatever. How many people do you really think will be required to keep your world going? Do you really think it will be billions? No, probably millions or max tens of millions. What about the other 6+ billion people? They're an enormous threat. It doesn't make sense to dumb them down and babysit them. When they're not killing each other, they will be trying to kill you, spreading disease and complicating things. You unload them. Period.

I frigging hate Ray Kurtzweil, but he is right about the exponential nature of technology.

I can imagine a social upheaval so great that the clock will be set back decades or centuries. Either way, expect some big, unpleasant social changes. Sooner rather than later.

Everything will become really cheap