BASIC INCOME

Haven't seen this discussed in a while.
Do you agree with the need of a basic income if all labor jobs cease existing due to technological advances?
Is it sustainable?
Do you have an alternative solution?

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Pretty much - but with limits. Basic Income threatens to create the "Mouse Utopia" problem and the whole r/K issue.

Some folks on basic income and who produce nothing - cut their gonads off.

its better to give everyone a certain amount, than spending it on administration for welfare and such.

it needs to be a fixed amount, no increase if you have kids.

>all labor jobs cease existing due to technological advances?
Not happening, this is just the lump of labor fallacy at work.

Unless you have white kids

i feel basic income isn't a good idea
better to give everyone free necessities
not free money to buy whatever they want with it

Apprentice carpenter fag here, you let me know when a robot comes along that can fall off a roof while snapping a chalkline on weatherboard, complaining to worksafe and fucking a milf at the same time.

I disagree, this is a good way to stunt your growth rate. Perhaps a better way to fix this is to help new parents go to university or trade school to get a better income to support kids. Helps birthrate, increases literacy.

Automation will kill factory jobs, other mundane jobs like cashiers and such. Walmart is already field testing robots to replace workers, such as the cashiers, the greeting guy, floor workers. Jobs that require thinking are safe though.

I feel like i could have written the OP better.
Are you against basic income because it's not viable or because it would be bad for society?

Why would it be better?

yes
yes
no

>Jobs that require thinking are safe though.
hahahah


this is more true than people realize
it's easier for a machine to solve complex mathematical proof than to deal with a task simple by human standards in a variety of environments

why are jobs that require thinking, especially abstract thought, not safe?

Well, what costs more?
Prosecuting and killing/imprisoning the superfluous ones who will become criminal, desease vectors or generally a nuisance by their unpleasant image of suffering or giving them some basic gibs and a cubicle flat to life in with some dignity?
In the latter scenario they might even breed and produce a future taxpayer who actually contributes or just die without having created ethical and pracical headaches.

Poor people who cant better their perspective and appear dignified that way drag an area down just by existing after all.

the short answer is because it's easier and cheaper for machines to do "high-skill" jobs than people think. the jobs that will take the longest to vanish will be ones that require a lot of variety; machines can outperform humans in single tasks relatively easily, but have difficulty branching out from a single task

something like the stock brokers and programmers of the world will be out of business long before the burger flippers will be, partially because it's just cheaper to have humans flip the burgers

i'd write more but i'm really tired

If you think universal basic income helps the economy, I have an infinite power source to sell you

I would buy bitcoins with my grand a month, if even 10% of recipients buy bitcoin, governments would run out of money in six months.

oh I see what your saying, good point

does this still not mean labor will be slowly replaced over time?

Wow, this is a major issue we really need to discuss! I really want to be in debt to the government forever!
hey why don't you jump in a bottomless pit?

>if all
Its going to be a necessity before all labor jobs stop existing. We could probably move to it right now if we streamlined all the 'wellfare jobs' out of the system. The savings from not having such a bloated bureaucracy alone might pay for it.

Its inevitable. You can argue when you think it will happen, but it will happen one day provided we do not go extinct.

Basic income for sterilization would be a great idea actually, better than welfare since it won't become a generational problem. Also a great solution to the problem of human devolution.

it's like BItards never heard of the industrial revolution

No because you can always start a new enterprise of your own to generate income.

That's literally how companies begin.

>Do you agree with the need of a basic income if all labor jobs cease existing due to technological advances?
"If", so no.
>Is it sustainable?
Basic income? No.
>Do you have an alternative solution?
Gas the kikes, put all leftists into Happy Camps together with niggers to enjoy diversity.

euromaster here
basic income is a good thing
but on the other side we need a maximum wage in all fields to finance it.
youtube.com/watch?v=ZosIUP2cGEo

Doing what? There is already a machine doing it around the clock.

Post labor only resources will matter, and if you dont have any you are fucked. The lack of automation allows people who dont actually have anything to be placated by the people who do have things by paying them for their labor, if the need for labor goes then there is a problem. People changing tires, people doing brain surgery, its all the same post labor, all equally worthless. Owning one square inch of land is more valuable.

so make the neet basic income 1/10 the maximum income
that way no one makes more than 10x the poorest guy

>Haven't seen this discussed in a while.
That's because it's absolutely fucking retarded until we get to sci-fi levels of automation and even then it's only a debate to be had not a need
Sage

I agree with what you're saying, but not with the conclusion. The high skill jobs require you to translate various kinds of information into the task you're doing (e.g, programming requires you to read the specification, communicate with others, and recall previous problems to solve your current one). Robots have difficulty doing this, the research isn't there. Also on the note that it's cheaper to hire humans than to have a robot is nonsense.

>that way no one makes more than 10x the poorest guy
yep, this is how it was in times everything worked well.
the ceo of a comp earned like 8-10 times more then the lowest worker

Computer's don't really solve mathematical problems. They can give you a solution to a specific problem that involves numbers, but as far as I know they aren't capable of handling the concepts and therefore design jobs would be pretty safe from automation

>we should wait untill automation is destroying society before we figure out what we should do :^)

This also, in the mean time. Minimum wage is a meme, it doesnt help anyone it just increases the base price of everything. What you need is a maximum wage based on your companies average wage.

I think its only sustainable if we optimize what we tax and how much; removing as many expenses that are ultimately unnecessary as possible. From there, we have to figure out how to get the cost of living down in many parts of the US. Where I live, you objectively can't make it on your own if you don't make more than 16 dollars an hour due to prices of apartments and housing. Obviously people can live together, but shit will still be expensive. With the increases in automation and technology, I am a believer that basic income is necessary, and I may have sounded pessimistic, but I do think its possible. I just think we have a VERY long, VERY difficult, VERY turbulent road ahead in implementation. No matter how much we'd like it to be, it's not going as easy as to accomplish just "taxing duh billionaires."

There has to be something for kids. If UBI is just enough to live on and you have a kid you can't suddenly make more money. Talk of planning and all is fine but in the real world this will happen and the government will ultimately pay the costs.

The lowest worker making 1/10th of the top worker is different from a non-worker making 1/10th of the top though

>we should wait untill something is actually wrong before upending society
No shit Sherlock

Even then no basic income. Better to wipe it out and start fresh after war with the machines. I would prefer Mad Max to Basic Income.

All the gibs and dindu you can handle!

>The lowest worker making 1/10th of the top worker is different from a non-worker making 1/10th of the top though
nice trips
to make one thing sure: a working person should get more then a non working person.
would say at least 50% more

You can automate all you want, have every job in every company run by machines apart from the owner. The problem with that, who buys stuff from your company? The only people with money are the company owners. Your company of machines is worthless if nobody can afford to buy stuff from you because they don't have jobs.

I envision the future as ubi for everyone with jobs as supplementary income and the right to reproduce being earned through financial or genetic superiority. Plus there would be lots of reproduction lotteries to keep Lots of random genes around and make sure Everyone stays hopeful. Voting rights must also be earned. No more ponzi financial scheming economic jewery. Everyone dedicated to Sustainable eugenics and automation.

Why would anyone work to earn 2 or 3/10 of the max when they can literally do nothing and make 1/10?

Changing minimum wage with inflation doesn't really affect anything and helps protect ignorant workers that don't realize they're getting paid the same while prices go up. When minimum wage growth outpaces inflation, it gives low-income workers a short period where they get paid more before prices can adjust. It may backfire by making companies fire employees that they can't afford to pay, so really it just sucks for everyone.

>governments would run out of money in six months.
Or bitcoin becomes a commodity with a backer and explodes to 6 million.

I'm not sure if you've been paying attention, but this is exactly the problem that a UBI's intended to address.

so set the neet income at half minimum wage and the max wage at 10x minimum wage
no one is too rich or too poor
the government prospers most of all

that would mean 1000 euro max for non worker
1500 min for EVERY worker.
refugees: asskicked over the border.
little companies that cant pay low workers that said minimum wage get funded from taxes the big companies pay.

Because they want to earn 2 or 3 times more? Some people would, some people, some people wouldn't. It's a matter of motivation.

I think it would encourage a lot of creative workers (artists, musicians, etc.). Jobs that don't have a guaranteed income would probably see an uptick. Obv there would be bums who just watch tv all day, but I'd like to think any decent person would get tired of doing nothing.

>I think it would encourage a lot of creative workers (artists, musicians, etc.)
Creative work is being taken over by automation too.

In fact in all honesty it is probably physical labor that will remain the least likely to be automatized. Your mechanics, technicians, plumbers, etc. Creating a robot program to make music is cheap, creating a robot body to do multiple varying physical jobs is expensive.

Of course, none of this takes into account transhumanism, and we would hardly need UBI in any case.

Old carpenter fag here. At the rate we are going it is going to be cheaper to totally demolish a house and print a new ones with the renovations you want soon.

Let's say there's a monthly basic income of about $1000 for everyone 18+ years old.
For a start, $1000 will become the new $0. This is because gouvernments need taxes for the basic income which in true left-wing fashion will be taken from businesses, who then proceed to raise prices so they can stay afloat.
The big money that people of analphabetic calibre often point at and shout MINE MINE MINE will get taxed more too, but the corporations who possess those funds will just take their funds and their expertise and leave the country, thus leaving nobody but the poor and the middle-class to fork the dough.
Now the sole validation for basic income is that in a fully-automated world, the poor does not have enough money to live nor an opportunity to acquire some, so what happens when you force them to pay exorbitant taxes on top of their impossible daily expenses?
You get loans. Loans up the ass and sideways.
Banks will be all too happy to shell out these loans because it means they can continue their charade a bit longer, but sooner or later it's due time and there's no money to pay them off.
At that point the gouvernment in her infinite wisdom will start printing out oceans of cash and buy the loans.
This causes hyperinflation and means that once again there aren't enough funds to go around.
It will keep spiraling like this until you reach the end station: Venezuela.

To run this down quickly, basic income is the point of no return for communism.
Don't go there.

>Doing what? There is already a machine doing it around the clock.

so buy your own machine and have it start performing those same services for a cheaper price

i'm in, send me a check.

We should enslave boomers and shitskins who want us to work because muh work ethic.

People would be willing to work for just prestige and a feeling of purpose with absolutely no incremental monetary rewards. We're really far gone from this mentality but with healthy communities and the feeling that we're working together the motivation would be huge. Look at endeavors like sports with no financial incentive at all. People contribute with incredible dedication because they love the competition and they love their teammates. No reason to think this can't be replicated elsewhere. Jew culture where this attitude is mocked under the pretense that everyone should be a selfish asshole is the biggest issue of our times.

Well, when talking about economics, people argue around "cost of living", not "cost of stuff I want"

I think that's what was driving towards.

So UBI is designed to give people spending money to give to the automated companies? Where does the UBI money come from then? kek

>Why would anyone work to earn 2 or 3/10 of the max when they can literally do nothing and make 1/10?
because you cant live really good with 1000 a month...
sometimes you need to work then to afford things like a car, new tv, computers, washing machines....

Important Note: this may only work on whites. Minorities don't seem to give a shit about anything but muh dick

It comes from your nations natural resources you fucking imbecile. Same place all of the current wealth actually originates. Just because it's dressed up abstractly doesn't mean it's actually abstract.

Maybe in skilled or artisan jobs, but no one's gonna work as a janitor cleaning up vomit for free, or wake up at 4am to pickup garbage, or even work the soul crushing drudgery of an office job just for the hell of it.

id be the worst example of this. somebody with trade-able skills, have value, id be neet in a heartbeat.

Completely unsustainable. With no jobs, there would be no incentive for the robots to do anything, since nobody would be able to buy what they produce.

>Do you agree with the need of a basic income
Absolutely. Our cunt is long overdue for it.

remember...she did it to work for you. give me a fucking break.

If you think universal income paid for by high taxation for people who actually works is a good idea, consider the following:

What happens when all the highly taxed people get tired of high taxes and leave the country, take their job creation with them? Does the problem get better or worse?

Until you solve that problem, don't talk about how great universal income (redistribution) is.

Let them eat cake

subsidized consumption in any form is cancer killing the planet

bad idea because then the government will shut off your credits if you do anything "bad" which is going to be everything

So a country has some gold ore in the ground. Automated machines mine it and then share it out to people. People use it to buy things they want from machine owners. So owner mines gold, gives away, trades stuff he made for the gold back. Why would machine owners be okay with that? They would be better off keeping the gold because they mined it.

if demand collapses because of automation-caused mass unemployment, how will the few remaining workers expect to paid anything more than a pittance?

What skills?

except gold like anything else is worthless without exchange

People should live in sustainable family farms and receive government grants to incentivize good citizenship.