Basic Income

Basic income - good idea or bad? Why/why not? Could it ever be feasible (e.g. in a strong enough economy) or is it inherently undesirable? How about current experiments in it (Finland, Italy, etc.)?

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Basic income avoids people to rebel against goverment
>bread and circus
So it is bad.

It could work, but not in a country like the US. You need a stable economy for it.

>badum tish

Do you believe it's always necessary to rebel against the government? In a situation where this isn't necessary (assuming that you believe one could exist) would it still be bad?

Basic income requires eugenics and compulsory labor. Otherwise, we'd breed ourselves into complacency. On the other hand, I believe anyone with more than a certain net worth should lose legal protections of the state, making them free game for murder, extortion, etc... Make it illegal to become a billionaire. The ultra-wealthy have failed to manage their assets properly (meaning: the people who make their money), turning the world into their own private shit show.

Isn't the point of the idea that compulsory labor wouldn't be required? If you're going to have slaves in the first place, why bother with basic income?

>current experiments in it (Finland, Italy
>Italy
Wut?

Forgot the name of the town, near Piza. Livorno? Something like that. Has been experimenting with basic income for a while now.

...

Do you agree with that statement? Disagree? Have any thoughts?

Or, better yet, make it legal to hunt the poor. The problem of poverty would immediately disappear.

this is literally keynesianism BS 101
>muh aggregate demand

I support universal basic income in a white ethnostate

How do you feel about the Finland situation then?

He said white not mongol

What do you do for work, Gomrade? How much (((free))) money do you feel you should get? From where does this (((free))) money come?

Operate a camera for a private company that shoots commercials, mostly.

The Finland experiment currently entails 560 Euro a month, potentially with a flat additional increase for people who work under certain conditions (this is up to debate).

>up to debate


I'm asking you, Gomrade, how much free money should everybody get and from where is this money derived?

A basic income where people don't have to worry about food and shelter is a good one. The natives in a Indian reservation must be happy and full of vim for all the time they have to pursue their arts, crafts and hobbies. The same premise must apply to all the lucky people in social housing and food stamps.

Happy, happy, happy.

>Basic income - good idea or bad?
It's alright but the human psychology requirements are not met by basic income (i.e. self-generated meaning). Basic income will just lead to a protest class and crime if people don't know what to do with themselves.

The short term benefits are obvious and would round the edges this country currently has regarding the communist uprising we're seeing, but I'm concerned about the long term effects as it would likely destroy this country entirely.

>the communist uprising we're seeing

Yeah, that was a near miss yesterday huh?

let them eat cake

Do you not believe people will seek to fulfill themselves if all of their basic needs are met?

No, that's boomer "follow your dreams" mentality. Leaving people to a masturbation society would basically end civilization completely.

Basic income is a meme.

Lower taxes to something like 10% under $300,000, jack up the tax rates on extremely high incomes, say 90% marginal on incomes over $10M. Use that money to socialize healthcare.

Don't need basic income, and fuck the 1%

>Basic income - good idea or bad?
I know the following is a postulate, but I CAN defend it. If only you could understand. But if you could, you wouldn't be asking that question

UBI will lead to slavery!

Its already technically legal. Just go out and kill a homeless guy and watch as the police give no fucks.

Kek, I should have specified that I meant the ideology.

Good idea in that people can concentrate on bettering themselves and can achieve more than they otherwise could now they no longer have to worry about putting food on the table.

Bad idea in that those who simply do not want to achieve anything and just want gibs to coast through life and bread like rats will exploit it, ruining it for everyone else.

The justification is usually that we're approaching a state where automation would render most jobs unnecessary anyway. In such a situation, would basic income be a preferable solution to mass unemployment?

>would basic income be a preferable solution to socialist uprising?
*No

A trick by the wealthy elite to force the middle and upper middle class to pay taxes at a rate of 60%+

In an ideal world, yes. But with automation the elite will just keep the capital rather than give it out to the underclass who'd they rather kill off since they no longer serve a purpose. Maybe the gibs will be given after mandatory sterilization.

There'd have to be some kind of certification program. These dumb motherfuckers need to be taught how to use their free time well, what they can do with their lives to better themselves, and how to not just become fat alcoholics and drug addicts.

That justification is the same as selling the skin before the bear is shot.
The ignorants who says "robots can do all the jobs" have never had a job and have no clue just how far we are from that, even in the most technologically advanced nations on the planet.

What the inexperienced Neets and students think, is that we already have the robot on the right. We don't! We're not even close. The most advanced stuff (in the real world) is stuff like the robot on the left, which yes, replaces a couple of retarded niggers who are so low on the IQ scale that they'll get disability based on that.
When, in a fairly distant future, robots like the one "takes all the jobs", then, and only then lets talk about UBI (I doubt anyone is going to need it by then)

Every basic income implementation plan does not predict a increase in tax rates for middle class.

Even if the tax rates increased, the increase would be offset by the reinforced income

>underclass who'd they rather kill off
i see no problem with this
90 IQ normies deserve to be gassed

Bad idea. Basic income means no reason for young people to get a shitty job. Not getting a shitty job means no work experience. No work experience means no good job. Then they start shitting out kids. Now those kids are being raised on basic income by people who don't know how to get or perform at a job. So they don't get work either and just live on the basic income. Then the third generation comes and it's completely fucked. Now add in all the companies built around milking the basic income babies for their money just hard enough that they'll ask for more money (and we all know they'll get it because these companies will lobby hard for it) so the companies can start milking a little more and so on.

hmmm, I need a robot to remind me to post pic. One of those I could actually get. heh.

>The ignorants who says "robots can do all the jobs" have never had a job and have no clue just how far we are from that, even in the most technologically advanced nations on the planet.
Every job you can imagine requires less people now then it did 30 years ago. Automation is not something that will happen in the future. It's something that has already been happening for the past centuries. The agricultural/industrial revolution is a big example.

Oh man I'd show you videos of robots doing low end entry jobs but whatever

Wouldn't a deflationary currency be the same thing?

>pay taxes at a rate of 60%+
Some of us already do when it is all counted. Income tax, property tax, value added tax, a bunch of taxes that there are no words for en English, because only we have been insane enough to make them.

>commies good or bad

do you really need to ask

>yes goy, let the robots do everything, you just sit back and relax
>here's 1000 autismbux, go buy yourself a smartphone or something
I honestly would rather see the entire world nuked than humanity turning into the people in Wall-E.

Absolutely fucking retarded. Instant gratification.

Why work, why study, why do anything at all ?

Inevitable idea. The current trend of upwards wealth accumulation means that eventually it's either pay to keep the poor alive or watch them burn down the villa's of the 50 or so people with all the cash. Top 8 people got more than the bottom half right now.

It's going to be a necessity once robots start taking over most jobs in about 10 years.

Watch that episode of Futurama where the government gives everyone $300 and prices raise by $300. You think if everyone had $12k a tear dropped in their lap that rent wouldn't go up on a $1000 apartment to keep the niggers out?
>But we'll have Ubi AND centralized price controls
What could go wrong! See you in the bread lines tovarich!

We already have basic income.
It is set at $0 you want more you will have to work.

>basing his political ideas from a episode of a cartoon

Either way, Futurama is a underrated show.

I work with those robots silly, the point the UBI folks are making is that robots can do ALL the jobs, so no-one should be required to even try to get a job. I accept...
>That all the limp-wristed retards who have neither the brains to feed numbers to a robot in order to make it do what-ever it is supposed to do, nor the strength or stamina to climb down that manhole and unblock that sewage line.
I accept that they are no longer needed on the workforce, and I accept that the rest of us will have to put food in their mouth, clothes on their backs and a roof over their head.
But as long as there are people needed, this well be done through social services, not runaway UBI. Because otherwise, guess who is going down and unblock that sewage line, take a wild guess.
We're in enough trouble here because we, de facto, have something very close to UBI. And the modern working class are getting fed up with able bodied, non retarded demanding OPM because they don't want to take a boring job.
cphpost.dk/news/who-is/who-is-dovne-robert.html
is a shining example.

>we need immigrants to work all these jobs to support the future of our welfare state
>we need universal basic income because there's no jobs in the future

hmmm...

>king over most jobs in about 10 years.
That's what they told me 25 years ago, when I started working. Well actually they said "in less than 10 years". Hasn't happened yet. In fact, now that the economical slump is over, the industries are crying for more workers. But all they get are useless Neets with their hands firmly in their pockets.

Very well put leaf, saved for future use.

What's to say you aren't one of those people they'd want to get rid off? Only a very small amount of people actually do anything that significantly benefits society and advances technology, bettering the lives of everyone. You could say that what you do indirectly helps those that research and develop said technologies but invariably you're still most likely a cog in the machine that can easily be replaced.

A complete fraud

Unfortunately any time I criticize any aspect of it, people say "But THAT is not what UBI is!" and they come up with some different definition. So the definition dynamically changes as is useful in that current situation.

Will Basic Income replace other welfare services?

Will Basic Income be the same for adults and children?

Will Basic Income actually be "unconditional"?

These completely change from discussion to discussion.

Anyway, pic related

If you believe there will be huge unemployment in the future because of robots, then it makes a lot of sense to deport as many immigrants as possible and not take in any more. Reduces the number of future unemployed.

Literally where is the money supposed to come from

And what in a fiat system gives Ubi value if everyone is printed out the same amount of monopoly money? Why would I trade your monopoly money for stock or commodities with inherent value?

Are you going to confiscate gold again to keep people from not accepting neetbux like in the 30's?

>We're just going to steal all the money from the rich and redistribute it
>Because this has worked so well in socialist countries
Comrade Cletus and comrade Tyrone will be here to free you from your decadent iphone and move those other 6 families into your 2 bedroom apartment.
It's describing a basic concept literally already demonstrated IRL by the medical and education markets. Free money=price gouging relative to that amount of free money and government meddling within a system.

Rather just lower the tax rate, no income tax, flat 5-10% VAT and reduce social programs drastically.

UBI is theft

And who the fuck pays for the basic income? The people with the jobs. And then why the hell should I even bother to work if I can have basic income for nothing. And so the dollar in the pocket of the hardworking man buys less and less and the government takes more and more.

Let it burn. Crash the system senpai. We made a wrong turn we need to go back.

>Every basic income implementation plan

What does this even mean?

Can you provide a list of these basic income implementation plans, seeing as as you are certain about their number and content?

>go to google or any other search engine
>type: "basic income"
>search the first results
>read about the proposals

>It's describing a basic concept literally already demonstrated IRL by the medical and education markets.

Develop on this

Are you trolling?

You literally asserted that "EVERY BASIC INCOME IMPLEMENTATION PLAN DOES NOT PREDICT INCREASE IN TAX RATES FOR MIDDLE CLASS"

But you cannot provide a list of the different basic income implementation plans, you just provide a shit-tier trolling that I should google the term and click on the first hit.

Do you know all the different basic income implementation plan? You should know, because you just made a sweeping generalisation about all of them, right?

I have an R2D2 wheelchair that I poo in, and it wipes my butt. Why would I ever want to exercise?

Even though poo gets all over R2D2, there are other robots the clean it, but then they get covered in shit too. So Ive got robots that clean the robots that clean my robot toilet, that cleans my ass. the whole overheard takes a 10,000 sqf warehouse and 50 kilowatts a day. and 12 on the job engineers.