Liberty or Order?

Liberty or Order?

Which is the most important principle?

stop posting this lazy eyed attention whore

Liberty...hands down. Order without freedom is meaningless.

liberty is where all the fun is at. I hope lauren will understand that I would ancap her

>whynotboth

Order.

Order.

Because they counteract each other. True Order can only be achieved through complete submission to whomever is in charge. True Liberty would be the absence of a higher authority telling you what you can and can not do

balance

Why not both?

tummy!

Fuck off Rabbi Goldenschauer.

>Order
>Pirate flag

Liberty! Order isn't exactly a principle anyhow.

...

Are they mutually exclusive? You can have a well ordered society that embraces liberty.

In a truly white society you don't have to choose

Libert

Public order is always most important. You aren't free in anarchy

How does describing the two choices make me a kike?

...

only whites deserve a liberty centred society

Liberty. order will be derived by market necessity and the hands of armed men, of course, there will be a state to unite them, but those armed men must be as ready to fight as the state military.

They need to be balanced. Having them compete is the entire absolute error of western history.

Order, liberty without order will lead a culture to spiral into degeneracy

Can't have liberty without order.

you get maximum liberty when you have also maximal order of ENFORCEABLE laws. you only have so much effort you can put into law enforcement. current law enforcement apparatus is a king kong sized fucking franken beast of jews. not sustainable.

delete this you little ZOG shill rat

yeah I'll take the number 4 meal and I want a Biggie size it

Order.

With the right structure, it can encourage innovation, and can focus on specific areas. Order doesn't have to be gray and strict. Order just means that everything happens in a methodical, logical matter. You can circumvent this by integrating the human element of imperfection/experimentation/innovation that pertains to a specific structure. That way, the structure is there, humans don't become slaves to technology, and innovation/science/art thrives and complete and total harmony is achieved since everyone can identify a common goal. Order provides the box that allows people to think outside of.
Liberty is good at first but it can easily fall apart. The idea of people not being a slave to a greater picture is attractive to some, and I get that. Some people don't want to go with "the man" or whatever, and sure that's fine. Let bigons be bigons. However, there comes a certain point when it becomes logically clear that certain solutions contain better outcomes, with a purely Liberal world, it'll be hard to come to a proper conclusion. In a Liberal, free world, it's important to account for everyone's happiness and freedom of expression. While that's great and I think it's definitely the shining factor of a Liberal world, liberty makes it hard for there to be any technological, scientific, artistic progress.

Google's definition of Order is:
the arrangement or disposition of people or things in relation to each other according to a particular sequence, pattern, or method.

Order isn't about taking away people's freedoms. Rather it's about introducing a structure that which can avoid the problem of "control" by allowing humans to thrive in a way that progresses the species toward a new level of living. You can have Order and then introduce Liberty in accordance to Order. But it's much harder to have Liberty and then place some sense of Order within it.

>inb4 cringe
Think about it, broski
There's no "I" in TEAM.

What a shitty question, humans want order, liberty or not.

Liberty.
Natural order will inevitably arise spontaneously out of individual autonomy anyway, something I wish more of y'allmst niggas understood.

thx gunter

This, and

No they don't counteract each other. I can have a cosy fireplace in my living room and be running a bath in the bathroom above it at the same time. The water only would destroy fire if it was in the same place. Society is like that, a bunch of parts moving together to keep everything going. Keep trains and buses running on time, keep criminals being sent to jails or prisons, yet at the same time people are generally free to do what they want in most countries unless it's hurting someone else.

Religions are a good example. Most modern Christians are about 50/50, while Jews are a bit more orderly, and Muslims are orderly to the point of having no liberties. Atheists can choose what they want because they don't have a dogma to abide to, but they're usually about 50/50 too.

I want to lick Lauren's belly!

short shorts is most important

Nope, people are raised in different contexts that encourage different responses to situations. Any sense of Order will be cast aside due to differing opinions and the problem with having to address each opinion and having everyone say "OK" to a solution. With Liberty comes extremes with no way to deal with them. Order also comes with extremes but can logically deal with them as it would pertain to a longer-term goal.

>Tits

holy mother of fuck

both

Now that is trad. She is A+ wife material, great role model for our future daughters.

That will be a weak order though. It's fragile, it rewards people for rigidity and the system will die if it can not adapt. What we need is an antifragile, strong order. Liberty or chaos is a central part in that. With some liberty, movement of people in the hierarchies is fluid, and the deserving get to positions they deserve.

Liberty

>that party pudge
WOULDNOTBANG

minus the nibber loving

and order...
fascism forever

Freedom over Duty every day of the week. I don't understand how this is a question.

i was thinking the exact opposite

Liberty obviously

If there isn't order you can't protect liberty.
If there isn't liberty you can't protect the orderly enforcement of order and liberty.

happiness is a fucked pussy - don't get it twisted faggots.

ORDER
liberty is what has lead to Americas moral decline
liberty gives people the freedom to act irresponsible

>Any sense of Order will be cast aside due to differing opinions and the problem with having to address each opinion and having everyone say "OK" to a solution.
You are not here because you are being coerced to against your will, but off of your own volition.
If what you're saying were true, you would be browsing your own, personal Sup Forums, and science and epistemology would cease to have any significance, and everyone would be installing gentoo.

>Order also comes with extremes but can logically deal with them as it would pertain to a longer-term goal.
You're assuming the consequent: how do we know our current projections of an ideal longer-term goal are truly in our best interest? without liberty, it would be impossible to even fathom that our course of action could be improved upon, let alone could we change it.

>pirate meme fag
>order
Do you even see yourself?

>Let bigons be bigons

Order.

Liberty....Order leads to Dissension

Liberty is Order.
False dichotomy is false.

>Liberty...hands down. Order without freedom is meaningless.

Order is vastly more important, having to fight off raiders constantly is way worse than having to follow retarded rules.

Only civilized men can be free. There is no liberty among barbarians.

False dichotomy, you can have order and liberty.

Order is true enemy of "progress".

liberty is god given. order is man made.

BASED

Define "order" and "liberty"

I see humans as creating structures and systems. Hierarchy is an inherent part of our reality for example rules of conduct, ethics, law, etc. Isn't rule of law a system of order? In fact I would go so far as to say that society would not be possible without some sort of "order" or rules for interaction.

big tits with tiny nipples

liberty brings order
order makes liberty possible
you cant have one with the other

Order.

Order.

order > liberty >>>>>>>>> equality

I feel like you have my argument backwards.
I'm saying that order provides a structure that which liberty can thrive.
Solely having liberty doesn't provide a lasting foundation.
Also order =/= control.
>how do we know our current projections of an ideal longer-term goal are truly in our best interest?
You're right, I agree. But there's no way to know unless we try something. Doing something is almost always better than doing nothing.

order exists in nature, too

Tits override both.

You need both, both on their own have flaws. You need a populace free to do whatever they want that genuinely wants to use that freesom to build an orderly society.

That depends on your definitions of Liberty and Order, which often hold different meanings by many people.

>having to fight off raiders constantly is way worse than having to follow retarded rules
Now you're just being dishonest. If 'order' is all it took to ward off invaders, we would have no reason for a military or a border patrol. Defending yourself against the envious is a universal condition of life, irrespective of whether you live under order or liberty. If we had the liberty to choose our defense agencies and insurance, those businesses would have a direct obligation to fulfil their end of the bargain. Surely we can agree this is better than flooding our country with refugees or being Israel's leashed bulldog.

>Defending yourself against the envious is a universal condition of life
I feel like this can be circumvented through order.

Order
Liberty has been fetishized by people that don't understand that it isn't the end goal. Prosperity and happiness is.

A certain degree of liberty is necessary for that, but too much liberty causes the order to fall apart and that is when happiness and prosperity are lost

order and liberty are the same thing when you think about it carefully

Liberty is the ideal, but when this is not allowed, Order is the solution.

Order stems from liberty.

Gassing the kikes.

On deeper introspection, its kind of a cycle isn't it?
A society that practices sheer order knows nothing, because even if they're doing something very well for the time being, time is more or less infinite, and if they don't have the liberty to experiment, they become obsolete. The only reason they learned something worked so well in the first place is through the liberty to experiment. Sparta's collapse was a good example of a society too preoccupied with order.
On the other hand, a society devoid of order can never truly stop to apply what it knows, no matter how liberated it may be. It may pass up the greatest idea of the century because its too busy considering other alternatives.

>Also order =/= control.
in that case, I guess I was arguing over semantics
I thought by order you meant centralized authority, but yes I agree some decentralized authority is necessary unless you're Socrates.

I'd like to order some fuckin pizza

liberty is anarchy now? ffs who says this shit?

order

THICC

Laurens so hawt

>Liberty or Order
Enough order to ensure a reasonable amount of liberty.

Order through liberty, it's the only one that's natural. If you have to enforce morality, then you are already a society of degenerates.