I'm a reforming leftist and need some help. If you don't know, ideas like white guilt are built on the notion of collective guilt, everyone having to feel guilty as a group for the actions of an individual. I get why it's stupid but when we're enjoying the benefits of past actions like imperialism, why shouldn't we feel guilt? Sorry that I'm kind of retarded but I'm just trying to find answers. I know that the concept is stupid when no other race has to feel guilt or responsibility like people want whites too but the point still stands, is it unreasonable to feel guilt to be knowingly benefiting from things that your ancestors used to cause suffering and bloodshed? The only argument I ever see is "I didn't do anything wrong so I'm guilt free!" Which would be true if it wasn't for the fact that you take full advantage of the benefits of the past atrocities you claim to take no part of.
What's the problem with collective guilt?
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White's are not the only ones to benefit from the stuff we have now, the entire world, and every minority group that has moved to white countries benefit from the resources we now have. It would be different if the newer generations were withholding the stuff from blacks and the likes, but the fact they have access to it which they wouldn't without whites is more than enough.
Yeah, that's true. I'm probably looking at things from the wrong angle. The world in general would be shit without the achievements and accomplishments whites have contributed
Nations on every continent have participated in atrocities of various kinds for as long as there have been Nations. Assyrians ran fish hooks through the mouths of their captives and would pull them by their lower jaw until it fell off. The Mayans and Aztecs sacrificed humans and lifted the beating heart out of their chest. Africa has been a continent of eating tribes and factions for thousands of years. No one is innocent, a few are victorious. Be glad you’re on the winning side at a time in history when a superpower is benevolent and wealth producing the world over.
Our ancestors did nothing wrong, kys nigger lover.
What are the benefits you experience that are uniquely white? Like give me the top 3.
Everyone has such ancestors, both slaves and slavers.
Nobody is specially oppressed.
What exactly are you benefitting from?
to add to what the last user said, not only do other races have access to the achievements of the white race, but the values instilled in the west by whites have ensured that these people are now prioritized and babied by the state. Consider SAT Adjustments for blacks in America, or the increased access to welfare, prioritization in scholar ships and the blind eye turned to black crime rates.
Feeling guilty about the past is retarded considering we have present issues perpetrated overwhelmingly by blacks while they still receive enormous privileges from the state.
You know OP is a shill because he's not going to answer this.
>we should feel guilty for slavery
>what do you mean you're "proud" America was the first country on the moon? You weren't even alive in 1969 and no one in your family was involved with NASA.
do you see the hypocrisy
Your ancestors built and created great wealth for future generations. People not of the majority that the country is named for do not deserve anything as their ancestors didnt build it for them, they should be aware of this innate hardship and deal with it or go back to where their ancestors created for them.
The sins of the father are not the sins of the son.
and something else again to add would be that it doesnt make sense to feel guilty when all this has done to try and help minorities improve their situation, but they don't, they're perpetually violent and refuse to take the opportunities afforded to them by society, they've got no one else to blame at this point other than themselves and their own culture
The argument is that we benefit from the past actions of our ancestors such as imperialism and similar acts because we would not be able to enjoy what we do today if not for their actions. While it's obviously stupid that no one expects other races to feel this way despite doing the same exact things, the point remains, should guilt be felt?
Yeah, sorry, leftists don't preach for 'leftist guilt'. They never have. That's a fabrication of the right. Nobody wants you to be depressed for what you're born as, the only thing that's being asked is that you stop pretending you're being fucking oppressed, and maybe help lift sections of society that are having trouble.
I literally said that I'm basically trying to debunk a dumb idea I still hold and am agreeing with people proving me wrong. Clearly, I'm a shill.
>but when we're enjoying the benefits of past actions like imperialism
Everyone is though, not just white people, and some more than others, like blacks who have lower test score standards, affirmative action and a larger percentage per population welfare stats. If anything we should be outraged.
Yes - what are these benefits. Can you quantify them? Like just saying "there are benefits" doesn't mean anything unless you can tell me what they are. What are they?
Ignore the flag change, I was shit posting.
At this point in time, it's proven that we should have followed the same method the muslims did with their black slaves. Mandatory castration of slaves would have solved a LOT of problems in our country.
Look at the middle east right now, they don't have a problem with blacks.
And no, guilt should not be felt. Should black people feel collective guilt for how criminal prone they are?
>why shouldn't we feel guilt?
No. We are all here. I had NOTHING to do with past generations and neither did you. IF you personally have wronged someone, great...feel bad and apologize.
I have never owned a slave
I have never had privilege
I work my ass off and break even
Skin color is irrelevant.
Tell me about my white privilege. It gives me the right to work 50+ hours a week to survive. Any less, and bills would not be paid. Please tell me how I should feel guilty for people who CHOOSE to not exercise their rights? People like me are done paying free rides.
Fuck you faggot.
Whites built this world and are responsible for all glorious achievments we now take for granted.
I feel no guilt.
The guilt you talk about is made up by jewish wizards. They hang at tavistock.
The problem is African Americans' issues are almost entirely self-inflicted. From the high crime rates and disgust with how degenerate inner city culture has become, there are countless reasons whites, Latinos, Asians, and Arabs despise them.
White guilt is a reality imposes on us throughout college. If they call for the end of our race, we hold no obligation to continue assisting them via welfare.
generally because it's unreasonable to feel guilty about something you didn't do but doesn't mean you can't enjoy stuff that is useful
we've had the discussion here a few years ago (and probably still do) if we should continue to use the things that Mengele found out because of how he did it, and of course we should, and we shouldn't feel guilty for how he did it.
we should probably condemned these ways and say that it shouldn't happen again, but what use is it to just not use them any longer because his ways aren't ethical to us?
Guys, we only have computers and live in houses because we killed people to get them. So I guess we should kill ourselves
The only reason why whites have to feel guilty is because they're the only ones to have been ultimately successful in their endeavors. Blacks, Arabs, Asians, etc all have their lot of atrocities, slavery, rape and conquest is something every race has partaken in, whites just ended up being the best at it.
We are free of guilt because of that, because we didn't do anything nobody else tried.
affirmative action, white guilt, the fact that feminists consider the patriarchy to be an exclusively WHITE male agenda etc.... Fuck off.
I Think The Main Problem Is People Are Living In The Past And Letting The Past Define Them.
It Is Not Your Fault Slavery Existed.
But At The Same Time In Order To Progress Further Into The Future We Need To Look At The Scientific Data and The TRUTH.
The TRUTH is What They Use To BrainWash You People Into Self Loathing Slaves.
We ALL Need To Work Together To OverThrow The Real Slave Masters, OBAMA, CLINTON, GLOBALISM.
The Present Is Ours, The Past Is Theirs, Their Demons Will Destroy Them And Wipe Them From History In Due Time,
Suffering Breeds Strength
You can't undo the past, you can only build a better future. Guilt doesn't help.
Well, i, for one, think that the real issue is the proliferation of social media platforms.
Now bear with me for a sec.
The whole SJW PC issue only draws strength out of their facebook posts and tweets and what fucking self righteous human beings they are.
Instead of achieving something in life, they call people racist and all that, and they wear it like a badge and not only that, they smear it all over each others faces, trying to prove to the world around them that theyre not useless.
The original idea of facebook, was good, communication in a much efficient way, but, now, it makes people believe that anyone gives a fuck about their shitty opinions
Thats just my two cents on the issue
As for the guilt part, well, yes, the greatest achievements of humanity were done by the white hand, just because you were born with a skin color doesnt mean you must feel shame, all races have committed atrocities against each other and other races as well.
Victim-hood is for whiny little bitches
As for what you should do, chill, man, try to be nice to people, thats pretty much it
>Why shouldn't you feel guilty
Because it's what your ancestors fought and died for. They didn't war, kill, conquer and destroy for nothing. They did it to preserve themselves and their ways of life. You shouldn't shun them for what they have given you. It's just not morally right. People act like our ancestors did NOTHING for anyone. That's wrong. They did it all for their posterity. You should be proud of their accomplishments
...
Discover your racial identity, and get educated on fascism. Nature is fascist, embrace it.
What will guilt accomplish? We live in relative comfort when our ancestors lived in a verifiable hell. The best thing we can do is make the most out the world they made for us. What else are we supposed to do? Sit around feeling like shit all day?
Hard to make a claim of generational wealth against a poor man. On the other hand, many old talking points seem to be refurbished recently. They seem to mirror old segregation talk.
The concept is stupid because it's as nebulous as the Bible and just as contradictory.
This makes it the perfect basis for a religion like modern Leftism.
>blame whites for slavery
>jews sold the first, which were enslaved by blacks themselves
>blacks are genociding whites right now in SA
You just get to pick and choose anything you want from history and discard all the bits you don't like.
Last year's history for my neighborhood involved blacks murdering an old white lady and chopping a little girl into bits and dumping her body into the woods.
I mean what do I get to pick for my religion? I could cherry pick all day but I'm not going to say it's a systemic problem. I'm not going to feel guilty about the actions of others that I have no control over.
I'm going to vote their cultures out of my community every chance I get is all I can do sadly.
Kid, the Bible explains this in one sentence. "The sins of the father are not the burdens of the son." You aren't responsible for the actions of your ancestors. Be you. Do you. And don't let anyone tell you different.
OP, "white guilt" is liberal nonsense, it's not left
I understand my answer to you is!
That's an israeli chick
the real question is why do you feel guilty?
So your saying the media isnt pushing white guilt?!
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Agreed!
the media is almost all liberal, not much real left media
Get the fuck out! When israel kills muslims that attack them, the media and george soros are quick to go to israeli guilt, when israel is surrounded by muslim nations who seek to destroy it!
So piss off!
This.
Fuck are you saying?? The media is left idiot! There is a difference between leftism and liberalism!
Leftists arbitrarily equate being an incidental beneficiary of something bad with being complicit in it. They base this association on nothing whatsoever and it falls apart under even the most minor of scrutiny.
If I am your neighbor and some lunatic burns down your house, perhaps this benefits me in several ways:
>I have a nicer view out of my bedroom window
>My property value goes up (perhaps your house was shoddy)
>We don't get along and now you have to move
In such a scenario I benefit from an atrocity that was done to you. This doesn't mean I had anything to do with your house being burned down. It doesn't make me complicit in the least, and anything I end up doing to help you recover constitutes CHARITY on my part, and not reparations or restitution.
The unquestioned truism of "you benefit therefore you are complicit" is necessary because it allows leftist groups to demand gibs while clinging on to their dignity and self-righteousness. After all it is not undignifed to ask for what you are owed
You didn't choose to be born white, you didn't sign up to benefit from slavery, you are an incidental beneficiary which doesn't make you inherently complicit in any way shape or form
Whether or not collective guilt is morally valid is not the point. Do you think kikes give a shit about moral validity of sins of the father when they use it to control normies? Lol.
The validity of collective guilt underpins all anty white sentiment though and is the primary factor in convincing whites to turn into anti-whites
No it doesn't. It's simply an empty claim that gets repeated so often it's literally agitprop. If it's validity is so crucial, how come kikes have never bothered to prove this validity? It's literally libel thrown out as mass-scale ad hominem. Stop being a retard.
You'll get people here who rail against collective guilt but then they'll say that they legitimately want to exterminate all Jews, even the "based" ones.
Collective guilt (except in the case of practitioners of the Jewish religion) is anti-Christian
Sure. You have people here who claim everything. Flat earths post here fairly often. What's your point?
It's almost as though all collectivism is shit
1). My ancestors were not uniquely violent, only uniquely successful. In fact, of men, only is it the European who made laws in wars, acknowledged self-autonomy, and ideas of modern ethics and liberalism
2). I have done nothing wrong, therefore I do not feel guilty for the immoral actions of my ancestors. And, if I feel guilt or pride on behalf of my ancestors, I feel more pride than guilt.
3). Europeans have given more wealth and prosperity to others than they have taken, so I don't feel guilty for living in a first world White country.
Say what you will about resource extraction from Africa, etc. - there is wealth too in the roads, medicine, and schools given to Africa, even if they have been poorly managed. This is so much so, that the French, not believing the exchange to be neutral or predatory, actually demanded a tax from their former colonies in exchange for the French colonial fiscal and military investment into these nations.
>But let's say that we are better off because of past actions
Okay, then quantify it.
Whenever a leftist tries this, ask for a measurable, quantifiable sum of money to be exchanged. Maybe our banks will drop interest on African investment, etc.
Also, I refuse to concede that heritage is privilege. I'm not indebted to anyone else simply because I live a better life, and have greater wealth.
You are such a faggot OP it's not ok, I never wanted to cut someones head off more than I want to cut your head off right now, I hope your suffering is endless
>democrats are the real racists
Stop, user. Just shut the fuck up. Nobody cares about your Muh ancestor soliloquy. Really pathetic. It shows a basic lack of confidence.
bruh all niggers where i live are fat af. like they used to starve an be poor and sheiiit but now they all fat and got tv. like you know your dog aint gonna cook no hamburger helper so you leave some kibble and water so that lil nigga can eat. same when we leave chips and balony and food stamps everywhere. we nice to our pets I dont know why them shits mad about. like damn fool you got purple drank right there
This post really makes me want to say 'kys'
>Says white people should feel guilt.
>Blames white people today for slave running Jews 300 years ago.
>Doesn't even realise that blacks in America experience wealth and a higher standard of living than their oga booga relatives in Africa.
>Wants more gibs.
Kys faggot. Go back to college.
Guilt in general is a retarded emotion that causes more suffering than it prevents. It should be bred out of the human species.
I'm proud that the USA made mad profits from WW1 and WW2 and not ashamed of it. Somebody need to make money off of Europe nigga moments.
caint bruh. somebody got to work at the purple drank factory or aint nobody gets any purple drank
You talk a lot yet don't say much.
I was just saying to OP that the White guilt doesn't make sense if Whites have given more than they've taken.
>OH NO NOT THE INNOCENT NIGGERS!
How can you possibly achieve equality while being held responsible for the actions of your ancestors? By that logic, everyone on the planet is guilty of one thing or another.
It perpetuates a culture of double standards when a white person feels bad about their skin color, while a black person feels proud. And vice versa. "Racism" is hatred of a race, and what everyone in this generation needs to understand is that that particular door swings both ways and hard. No one should be made to feel guilty, including whites AND blacks.
>we take full advantage
We also didn't choose to be born white either. If there is privilege I'm experiencing, there's nothing I can do about it. It happens TO me, therefore its by definition out of my control. I wouldn't choose to be treated better or worse than someone else, if I had been given the choice. But I'm not. What needs to change is our perception of one another.
purple drank dont jus fall out the sky ya know
Same reason you still have niggers.
>i dindu nuffin mistuh offassuh
>b-but you benefit from it
Niggers was the worst mistake in US history. You're paying dearly for it, already.
Why even base any part of your self confidence on that external shit? So really your saying your great great great grandpa was a real man, so therefore you aren't a faggot? Really? How lo test are you?
>Sweden
;)
>flagposting
>I get why it's stupid but when we're enjoying the benefits of past actions like imperialism, why shouldn't we feel guilt?
Whites are successful because they're innovative, hard-working and smart and not because they exploited nogs.
Actually, I believe the US would be way better off now if it hadn't been for slavery. Nogs be keeping the white man down, not the other way round. Nogs are a burden.
>Why even base any part of your self confidence on that external shit?
Because no man is an island. If I become a great writer, it is only by using the language made by my forefathers.
Or If I excel at music it is only by playing instruments I haven't invented and genres I haven't made, etc.
This is the meaning of heritage.
It'd be a fucking paradise. Now it's a few years from going full Brazil.
the problem is not guilt.
I can feel proud for nasa and bad for atrocities but there is a difference when from that guilt they want to take stuff and rights from us
what the fuck is this picture lmoa
Own up to your bloody past and be proud of it.
If you're too weak to stomach what your ancestors did, get fucked and leave some Lebensraum for who can.
1. Its in the past, and was never a choice you made
2. Everyone else aside, the law recognizes individuals for their crimes, not groups of people who share a trait with one who commits a crime.
It doesn't matter what's "right" or "fair". What matters is who wins.
Stop feeling guilty for things that have literally nothing to do with you
Yes but any given side needs conviction to win. The only thing leftism has is the presumption that it is the right and fair ideology. It doesn't even have to pretend to be practical or efficient and look how far it gets.
Coming out and saying what you just said will always end badly
>should guilt be felt?
no. this guilt stems from the lynchpin of the progressive ethos: that "discrimination is immoral".
you see it play out in cultural relativism. you see it play out in lesbian/trans sexual dynamics. you see it play out in workplace hiring/firing and affirmative action. "discrimination is immoral".
.Where does this come from
it's brainwashed in. youre rewarded for your failures, with participation trophies and shallow reward curves. youre ignored for your wins. your victories and talents are scowled at by your comrades. you become the tall poppy that they want to drag down. you get rewarded for agreeing with people, even when you're smarter than them. youre called mean if you have better ideas for them, for making them feel dumb.
ordering anything ever is discrimination. "best" and "worst" are labels, social constructs that are just secretly discrimination.
so you see, when your ancestors and others went to war with eachother, the fact that they were at war at all is discriminatory.
they fought and won wars so that they could forge a better world their /their/ decendents. the jews certainly not war with the assyrians for the sake of assyrian children. alexander did not conquer for the sake of the egyptians. michael collins didnt fight with england for the sake of the english.
so your ancestors were discriminating in favour of you, and now the progressives are telling you you should feel guilty about taking them up on the offer.
discrimination isnt bad. it might even be good.
Everyone, in every country, from the beginning of the dawn of man, from the moment an upright ape hit another on the head with a bone club to steal his female upright ape and raise children in his cave, is guilty then.