What's wrong with capitalism and the free market?

what's wrong with capitalism and the free market?

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Jews.

greed is human nature.
(except when jews do it)
right, conservashits?

capitalism is not a jewish invention. And they gained their power through government retardation
Aka Napoleon etc. etc.

This doesnt help me at all dude. Greed is human so it appears in all systems

Capitalism requires that the government protect the right of the citizen to own property. The government has failed to protect shareholder and even non-shareholder property rights.

That's the short answer. By use of fractional reserve banking with debt based fiat money, Banks (owned by Rothschild bankers and other "Bloodlines") make money out of nothing, and lend it to us at interest. This is the biggest theft and greatest fail of government to respect property right in the history of the world.

>capitalism is not a jewish invention. And they gained their power through government retardation
>Aka Napoleon etc. etc.
>

Oversupplies goods with negative externalities.

Undersupplies goods with positive externalities.

Capitalism works by harnessing greed to produce wealth.

Theft and greed are not to be confused. Theft is morally wrong because it collapses societies and thus properly outlawed, greed is just a human emotion which humans can act upon in right or wrong ways.

>Capitalism requires that the government protect the right of the citizen to own property. The government has failed to protect shareholder and even non-shareholder property rights.
hm i see what you mean

what do you mean? Do you agree/disagree?

well greed also implys that you willingly destroy land/environment for monetary reasons, one flaw of capitalism

>what do you mean? Do you agree/disagree?

Negative Externality = Something you get for free and don't really want.

Free market produces stuff you don't want and ends up making you take it.
Example: Road construction in front of your house.
Stuff you don't want: Delays, Noise, dirt blowing everywhere, etc.

A company can actually eliminate those things (working at night, putting up sound barriers, hiring a fucker with a broom), but the company has no incentive to do so cause it costs money. So, you get to suck it while they make their money.
You get the delays, the noise, and the dirt everywhere cause they want to make more money.

Same thing with pollution. Cleaning up your toxic waste costs money... its cheaper to dump it out back.

Its why we need regulation. To force people to clean up so we don't have to deal with toxic waste.
Most fuckers don't have brain one to grasp this.

The money is not real.

Capitalism is the greatest system ever invented by man. Any person who disagrees is a commie who needs a helicopter ride

Fuck off socialist scum.

Not much from what I can tell.

Nothing desu

Its regulated capitalism.

Socialism doesn't aim at profit.

ancaps should be gassed on the spot

people get in the way

hurts the working man and the poor, and gives more power to the already powerful people and people who do nothing in their lives

Government cannot redistribute wealth. Government can only redistribute poverty.

oh right i learned about them in uni. It is doubtful whether regulations help though

no. I come from a working family. The only thing my family needs is less taxation

Nothing, it just needs regulation.

Corporatism

>hurts the working man and the poor
It allowed my family to go from using newspapers as insulation because of how poor they were to being an upper middle class family living a comfortable life in only 2 generations. It also gave us anime.

Nothing. Usury is the problem.

Faith and altruism/selflessness is fundamentally irrational. (What is "chaos"?)

youtube.com/watch?v=39DyEM5dLcg

People slap huge regulatory structures, complex tax codes, incentive-scrambling welfare systems, and other such clutter into capitalistic systems and are then surprised when capitalists complain that it isn't true capitalism anymore.

Greedy subhumans overcharging for products and services.

Instead of putting community and people's interests first, the whole focus becomes acquiring as much wealth and capital as possible for "the corporation".

The digital age makes it too easy to hoard wealth and hide it all over the world. A million dollars used to get dispersed fairly quickly back into the economy. Now it sits in a bank account in the Bahamas for years and years, only being used to acquire more and more 0's in the account.

It's a system that created a great civilization but it is unsustainable at this point. The focus needs to shift back to your nation and your fellow country men, and not the shareholders. I don't want a bunch of Chinese billionaires having influence over what my local store sells or how much they charge.

Ancaps deserve to be executed

it depends on the people's genes. If you taught the 70 IQ sub saharan africans about the free market how far would it get them?

genetics is the most important factor for a great economy ideology is secondary

Nothing. It's survival of the fittest, when properly respected.
Right now, we have too many regulations.

>Instead of putting community and people's interests first, the whole focus becomes acquiring as much wealth and capital as possible for "the corporation".
The corporation acquires wealth by providing goods and services that people want, ergo their interests have to come first anyways.

>Capitalism requires that the government protect the right of the citizen to own property. The government has failed to protect shareholder and even non-shareholder property rights.
No it doesn't. It's the owners responsibility to care for their own property. The (us) government was never intended to protect property, just property rights. As in, someone comes to steal your car and you plug them full of holes, the government shouldn't interfere.

>If you taught the 70 IQ sub saharan africans about the free market how far would it get them?
Botswana is pretty prosperous.

fpbp

Then it's a regulated markrt dumb ass.

There has to be a limit though, otherwise corporations will run rampant, trying to offer the shittiest products for the highest cost, all to please the shareholders.

Globalism has removed taking pride in your business or your country. Now it's all about the bottom line and keeping the (((investors))) happy, and the (((MSM))) shuts down any talk of national pride as racist and anti-diversity.

Corporations want us to be blind, helpless consumers who depend 100% on them for survival, and globalism and Jews are benefitting too much from that.

notjhing

but it can lead to coorporativism

>It also gave us anime.
And what a great thing that is for Japan and NEETs around the world, amirite?

Capitalism is the most powerful economic system in the world, but that itself isn't a good thing. It has turned the youth of Japan into consumerist bugmen, and continues to sustain degenerate consumerist culture today all around the world.

Capitalism as a distribution mechanism is the most efficient, but modern capitalism is just as subversive as 20th century Marxism, but it erodes the soul of a nation gradually instead of relatively quickly

>trying to offer the shittiest products for the highest cost
At which point a competitor offers a better product, either one that is less shitty or doesn't cost as much, and the shitty corporation loses money and goes out of business.

>Instead of putting community and people's interests first

i understand charity and helping your people is great but i wont slave away for freeloaders
that only happens in a non competitive market

>The corporation acquires wealth by providing goods and services that people want, ergo their interests have to come first anyways.
Materialism and consumerism is not in the in the interest of the people.

If you sell a heroin drug addict heroin, you make him "happy" and give him what he wants, but you are not doing anything good for him.

>There has to be a limit though,
there is. its called the market
limits on the market are actually what helps jews the most
jews are 2 percent of america
what percentage of americas "limit makers" are jewish?

There is something off about the whole thing.
Everything has a price tag and you never completely understand why the price is this one and not lower or higher. You don't even think about it, you just buy it if it fits your budget or whatever.

Capitalism is also accountable for all the social sickness we have today. People need to show everyone their life has more value, they need to show they matter too. Because capitalism tells us from childhood that succeeding at life is earning a lot of money and being famous.

People seek happiness in a system that constantly asks for money to give you satisfaction.

Capitalism creates a world where the leaders want to stay in place, they want you to produce, reproduce and die.

I'm convinced that a better system will replace it, maybe not during my lifetime but it will happen eventually.

>At which point a competitor offers a better product, either one that is less shitty or doesn't cost as much, and the shitty corporation loses money and goes out of business.
This is a fairy tale which does not happen in reality.
Just look at Microsoft they offer a highly expensive, exploitative and flat out awful OS and they are still the market leader in home computing, simply because switching is not really possible.

capitalism will eventually destroy modern society. It has advantages but also disadvantages, for example we would not be nearly as technologically advanced as we are today without the capitalism train ploughing down the track, but at the same time, capitalism, materialism, it's destroying our human connection to one another.

there's way more too it that I can't be bothered getting into, but I think capitalism is going to have to evolve / change or be removed in some way to negate the societal damage it's causing.

what should those changes be? so many factors involved it will take a long time to figure this out and thoroughly think it through.

what would be a suitable replacement be? I don't think one has been presented yet.

tradingeconomics.com/botswana/indicators

by mentally impaired 70 IQ black standards

GDP per capita 7383 USD
GDP per capita PPP 15513 USD

>simply because switching is not really possible
Well I'm just gonna take you at your word, I don't use a Microsoft computer.

>Well I'm just gonna take you at your word, I don't use a Microsoft computer.
But more then 90% of the people are, I personally am running GNU/debian. So I do not use Microsoft either.
This is completely irrelevant though, since we both are in the minority, by far and is not actually a defense against my arguemnt.

capitalism kills, revolution now!

So there are alternatives available, but people prefer using Microsoft over their competitors.

It only works when jews are dead.

>So there are alternatives available, but people prefer using Microsoft over their competitors.
Yes, although Microsoft offers the worse product.

It needs corporatism to balance the wants ands needs of different facets of society.

I'm sure quite a few people would care to disagree.

That worked when people could only buy goods and services down on their local mainstreet. Nowadays the providers of goods and services are global elite neo-liberal oligarchs who work together to artificially inflate prices and control the market.

>what's that goy? You don't like the services I provide? That's a shame, oh well, guess you'll have to switch over to my brothers schlomos company, since we are the only two who provide such a service and the second a smaller competition comes around we'll pummel them down and buy them out. Good luck!

>I'm sure quite a few people would care to disagree.
Of course and a heroin addict would tell you that the guy selling him heroine is doing a great job and that the heroin he is injecting is a great thing for him.

That does not make him right...

Nothing. Liberals, niggers, mess-in-a-cans and rapefugees just don't wanna work.

That does not make you right either.

It's not about paying for freeloaders, it's about putting your countrymen first and not outsourcing to cheap countries to keep the wealthy shareholders happy.

Back in the day we would build things to stay ahead of the japs and krauts, now it's just the wealthy trying to out wealth each other at the expense of the common man.

Your argument, that capitalism is just a bunch of land pirates fighting each other, is ....

Wrong.

Capitalism is about property and the ownership of the means of production.

Socialism the government ownership of the means of production. The individual may own goods.

Communism is the elimination of all property rights of the individual.

The form of the competition has really decayed, hasn't it? Fighting over tallest skyscrapers is a dim second. Let's at least try a variant and fight over the widest skyscraper for a while.

>That does not make you right either.
But that doesn't matter at all, you did not refute my point.

The fact is that people can not decide what is the "best" thing. A better product may fail, just because it has better marketing or a lesser known brand.

It is flat out wrong to claim that capitalism creates the "best thing", a product success is not based on its overall quality, but on how good the company is able to sell it.
Which points to the whole problem of capitalism.

It aims not at creating the best thing, but at creating the worst thing that can sell good enough. Just for the sake of profit.

externalised costs are one thing but we've tipped too far into socialism on one side and immigration and offshoring on the other, the bailout of the banks stopped people from considering risk and played into politics by supporting voters who invested in real estate and capitalism with immigration, gated communities and offshoring went the other way. It's like we have the two extremes but utlimately socialism is to blame.
Dyring the industrial revolution nobody benefited for about a generation, they got poorer and really suffered. Child labour in a new factory could do the work of a craftsman to some degree. The beenfits of production costs falling is hampered by static wage increases.
My point being we have the worst of both worlds but socialism is dragging it out worse than capitalism ever did , someone has to give way and it won't be capitalism.

I'm not seeing how wanting more than you need (a subjective judgement about how much you need) implies "willingly destroy land/environment". That is a non sequitur.

And it has nothing to do with capitalism, even so. I said capitalism harnesses greed. It harnesses greed by enabling people to take risk and invest in the means of production. Nothing there says destroy the environment. That is NOT implied by the concept of capitalism.

Capitalism = The individual has rights to own all kinds of property.

Socialism = the government has the power to own the means of production, the individual has the right to own goods.

Communism = fuck the individual! Government owns it all! Bwaaahhahha!! Die you filthy goys! Jews rule!

There's no such thing as a free market.
It's incompatible with human nature, just like communism.

Jews are not the problem. It's the system that allows them to become a problem.

>The fact is that people can not decide what is the "best" thing. A better product may fail, just because it has better marketing or a lesser known brand.
That is true, as it is with all systems.

>If you sell a heroin drug addict heroin, you make him "happy" and give him what he wants, but you are not doing anything good for him.

Sell him enough heroin, and you take him out of the gene pool and he serves as a cultural reinforcement to not be an asshole.

That serves the culture.

the only one who comes first is me. everything else is slavery

Well if you just build things for a dick competition than thats retarded but i can see where you are going with this.
Keep in mind that minimum wage has made production in 1 world countrys impossible and that goods can be offered cheaply for poor people

i dont think its that simple. Plenty of people use MAC or linux because they offer different things.
Microsoft might be shitty but its also customizable.
Also Microsoft had huge competitors itself when it started

A company that dumps their toxic waste for free has a huge advantage over a company that pays to have it properly disposed, consumers don't give a fuck.

where are they dumping it?
>someones property
also are you ignoring the largest polluters are states?

The end stage of capitalism is the individual "owning" things that are really controlled by a company, with no alternative. Almost like the company owns the individual. Where I live there are two cable providers who only service certain areas. Comcast owns a part of the population and verizon owns the other part.

imagine its someone who has no funds and cant fight agains a giant coorporation.

What will he do? I suppose people will know that they dont value property rights but is that going to hold the coorporation back?

indeed

Team up with someone that does have funds to sue them in return for a share of the profit.

IF WE WERE LIVING IN CAPITALISM they would cease reproduction and there wouldn't be a problem. Unfortunately, we are forced to live in socialism.

and who has the authority to make the coorporation submit?

>Capitalism is about property and the ownership of the means of production.
commiefag detected.
Capitalism is about private property. Government directly contradicts that notion.
Your a fucking idiot.

The rights enforcement agencies that are subscribed to by the poor and rich man demand that the corporation and the poor man settle the dispute with a reputable judge. Otherwise the rights enforcement agencies of the poor and rich man will be required to use force to enact compensation at the expense of the corporation.

...

Capitalism is about who owns the means of production. I said socialism is about the GOVERNMENT ownership of the means of production. Not capitalism.

That's a strawman, but.. okay.

You are fucking retarded. I just want you to know that.
Government requires taxes and will take your private property if you do not pay taxes.
Please tell me how private ownership (of anything) can coexist with a government that requires taxes be paid?
Why are all socialist and communist this fucking stupid?

Compared to most of Africa it's paradise.
Also it's still improving. By your logic 1/3 of Europe is literally subhuman.

>That is true, as it is with all systems.
Not really, at least in theory socialism does not work that way.
If the workers own the means of production they will produce the product that fits their needs best.
Not that any of this is a good Idea...

>Sell him enough heroin, and you take him out of the gene pool and he serves as a cultural reinforcement to not be an asshole.
>That serves the culture.

Helping heroine addicts to die benefits no one it does not solve the problem and the worst thing it does is increase the amount of available drugs.
Someone does not deserve to be cut of from society just because he is addicted to something, that is fucking retarded,

>i dont think its that simple. Plenty of people use MAC or linux because they offer different things.
Of course it is not.
It is just an example where there is a clear disparity between the quality of a product and its market share.
I have talked to quite a few people about this and often they themselves started with "I would like to use Linux but switching ...".
Not the quality of the product matters but the difficulty to switch.

There are many other examples, take youtube or twitter or so many others.

>Microsoft might be shitty but its also customizable.
No it is not. Even MAC is significantly more customizable then fucking Windows.
Try replacing the standard windows window manager, go ahead I won't hold my breath.
For that matter try to stop windows from downloading an update if it wants to. good fucking luck.

>If the workers own the means of production they will produce the product that fits their needs best
Exactly. The heroin addicts will produce loads of heroin for themselves, and insist that they are doing a great job and that the heroin they are injecting is a great thing for them.

And what if such a person does not exist?
The US at least has class action lawsuits where a group of individuals can team up together, but that is not the case everywhere.

I do not get how you could think that this would always be an option. Most of the time no one will fund your fucking lawsuit.

There would be nothing stopping a class action lawsuit from happening in this society too.

Free market will never solve the xenoestrogen problem

>Exactly. The heroin addicts will produce loads of heroin for themselves, and insist that they are doing a great job and that the heroin they are injecting is a great thing for them.
Bad example since heroin addicts will most likely do not live long when producing heroin for themselves in great quantities.
I agree with what you are saying here, communism does not solve the problem with materialism and consumerism and I would never argue that.

But you are not actually addressing my point, you argued , meaning that Companies will produce things based on how well they can be marketed, not on their quality.
If the workers own the means of production they could not possibly compete with themselves.

>There would be nothing stopping a class action lawsuit from happening in this society too.
In which society do you mean?

IIRC class action law suits are not possible in most of europe.

>If the workers own the means of production they could not possibly compete with themselves.
If it's market socialism then they would still have to compete among themselves. If its not market socialism then they wouldn't, although there would be a fuckton of other problems associated with such a system.

Even if you do implement socialism and get rid of the market though, there's nothing preventing the workers from making the wrong choice. Microsoft's not even that great at advertising, Apple is the "cool" brand to get, yet Microsoft consistently gets the lions share of computer sales. It'd be quite simple for any computer designer who wants his system sold over the others to try to start his own little marketing campaign out of the sense that his computer is better, and thus the public might make the wrong choice.

>IIRC class action law suits are not possible in most of Europe
Because of government intervention, which wouldn't exist in the theoretical ancap society I assumed we were talking about.

nothing. we don't live in a free market since verything is tregulated by the govt so most of replys are invalid

It's already in the process of doing so.

Why do you think "organic" foods are so popular?

>If it's market socialism then they would still have to compete among themselves. If its not market socialism then they wouldn't, although there would be a fuckton of other problems associated with such a system.
Of course. I was also never arguing that such a system would work well, just that it could exist.

>there's nothing preventing the workers from making the wrong choice.
Sure, but there really is no system that is safe against human error.

>Microsoft's not even that great at advertising
They have nobody to advertise to. How would you advertise on a market which you own 90% of and the people who do not use your system most likely use it out of hatred for you?

>Apple is the "cool" brand to get, yet Microsoft consistently gets the lions share of computer sales.
Apple has 3 times the revenue of Microsoft...

>It'd be quite simple for any computer designer who wants his system sold over the others to try to start his own little marketing campaign out of the sense that his computer is better, and thus the public might make the wrong choice.
There is actually a lot of completion on the hardware market.

The idea of a class action lawsuit and an ancap society are fundamentally incompatible.
Who is there to enforce such a lawsuit, who are the judges and why are they not bought by the corporations?

Take the black pill and accept there will always be kings and rulers over you and your means of production. Capitalism or communism, it will be molested by men more powerful then you.

>Apple has 3 times the revenue of Microsoft...
Pretty sure most of that is from phone sales and the like.

>Who is there to enforce such a lawsuit
The various rights enforcement agencies that all the people are subscribed to.

>who are the judges
Any judge that both parties can agree on as being reputable.

>why are they not bought by the corporations?
Because they wouldn't be reputable then, and the rights enforcement agencies would refuse to have a court case with that judge.

Here's a youtube video explaining the idea
youtube.com/watch?v=jTYkdEU_B4o

>Helping heroine addicts to die benefits no one it does not solve the problem and the worst thing it does is increase the amount of available drugs.
>Someone does not deserve to be cut of from society just because he is addicted to something, that is fucking retarded,

Getting rid of heroine addicts removes useless eaters from society. It is a natural selection pressure against addictive, escapist behaviors. It improves the gene pool by removing those genes, improves the culture by eliminating deviant subcultures, and improves economics by eliminating people who take from the economy and return nothing to it.

Your concept of "deserved" is damaging to society.