The idea of a divine light, or an inmost light, used as a metaphor to point to 'special' intrinsic nature of being(s) derived from Iranian influence. To be more precise, its genealogical origins came via Indo-Iranians of Sintasha culture (2800-3000 BC) who worshipped fire, believing it to be the source of life and reminiscent of soul. Such a belief spread with their migration to Central Asia and Iranian plateau (~1000 BC), and it was later developed by the Bactrian, Zarathustra, in a more nuanced dualist way wherein the inner light is connected to Ahura Mazda in contrast to the darkness of Ahriman.
The belief that monotheism originated from Zoroastrianism is more contentious. However, I claim the metaphor of "divine light" derived from Zoroastrianism is more well-established. From studying Sassanian development of Zoroastrianism, there was an obsession with the relationship of divine light and abyssal darkness in Zurvanism, Manichaeism, and Mazdakism.
Wikipedia also agrees with me:
"Zoroastrianism
Light is the core concept in Iranian mysticism. The main roots of this thought is in the Zoroastrian beliefs, which defines The supreme God Ahura Mazda as the source of light. This very essential attribute is manifested in various schools of thought in the Iranian Religions and philosophy. Later this notion has been dispensed into the whole Middle East, having a great effect of shaping the paradigms of different religions and philosophies emerging one after another in the region. After the Arab invasion, this concept has been incorporated into the Islamic teachings by Iranian thinkers, most famous of them Shahab al-Din Suhrawardi, who is the founder of the illumination philosophy. Although this school had stemmed from the Iranian culture and beliefs, it has spread far into Europe and can be seen and traced in the teachings of the Enlightenment era, Renaissance movement, and even the secret cults as early Illuminati."
shut up you retard no one cares what your faggot ego driven bullshit tribe claims to have invented
Evan Reyes
I mean, it's true. I can give evidence for it. The metaphor of light as symbolic for divinity came from Iranians. I'm not claiming it, since it is established fact. I am merely pointing it out.
Isaac Russell
So what OP? Go to Sup Forums
Parker Gomez
Point is, since Iranians invented the notion of divine light, which also influenced Hegelian concept of dialectical progress towards greater light or his notion of 'freedom' (note, Hegel considered Achaemenids beginning of dialectical history of thesis and antithesis), then if Iran were to be demolished, it would have almost psychic-like effects on Westerners, once they learn more about its history and formative influences on their own culture.
It would make people question deeply whether there is divine light in their hearts, or just darkness.
Jeremiah Long
It's a shame your holy lands were in Jerusalem and not Transoxiana, like Amu Darya river.
Brandon Kelly
Lolwut? Iran right now is Islamic, not Zoroastrian. I get that you're talking about the symbolic psychic and not the x-fag psychic, but that's not really the effect demolishing Iran would have. Why you talking about demolishing Iran, anyways? What kind of stupid are they about to do?
Justin Rodriguez
>Iran right now is Islamic, not Zoroastrian. Iran still has retained aspects of its Indo-European Zoroastrian culture better than Europeans did for their Indo-European paganism.
The Shahnameh (which has a lot of parallels with the Irish The Tain), Zoroastrian rituals and holidays, some metaphors (Cup of Jamshid), and more. It's important to note that the Zoroastrian minority in Yazd, Iran did a good job retain traditions, rituals, and hymns dating to Sassanian era. Gathas also come from Zarathustra, which is much older (~1000 BC).
>but that's not really the effect demolishing Iran would have. It will once people realize Iran's culture is not reducible to Islam. Look at this new movie coming out:
It's not like most Iranians don't respect or know about their pre-Islamic culture.
Blake Miller
It should be noted the country has always been called "Iran-shahr" since Sassanian empire. It was due to Hitler's recommendation to Reza Shah that he officially asked other countries to call Persia by its native name "Iran". It's like Germany asking other nations to call it Deutschland, and then people ask, "Where did Germany go?"
Iran is a cognate for Aryan, and Iran-shahr meant "Country of Aryans", roughly.
Ryan Kelly
Divine light may have been Zoroastrian in terms of which dogma did pictures and depiction of it first but the concept of light as a good thing and even a life saving one is prehistoric.
When cave people were hiding in caves from predators and they saw the light of day, they'd feel hope and general sense of safety (at least compared to what they felt at night).
Light being a very important thing is not Zoroastrian, it's universal and arguably not even started by humans. It probably was started by Australopethicus creatures.
Brody Richardson
>but the concept of light as a good thing and even a life saving one is prehistoric. prehistoric to Proto-Indo-Iranians of Sintashta culture*. That's what is established.
>When cave people were hiding in caves from predators The idea of light as metaphorical for divinity or "soul" came from Proto-Indo-Iranians of Sintashta culture and was developed further by Zarathustra much later in Bactria.
Zachary Lopez
>prehistoric to Proto-Indo-Iranians of Sintashta culture*
In prehistoric, the importance of light would be universal. Overtime, cultures that settled and began taking part in history move away from such concept as they realized that the world is not Black and White. It is a fallacy to classify the world or people in such a way.
>The idea of light as metaphorical for divinity or "soul" came from Proto-Indo-Iranians of Sintashta culture
That claim requires evidence.
>developed further by Zarathustra much later in Bactria.
There is no writing of Zarathustra. It's unknown what he actually said or developed. He may not even have existed. Plenty of people question the historicity of Jesus and there's far more evidence of Jesus than Zarathustra which there isn't any.
Jackson Cook
I recommend Richard Foltz's Religions of Iran: From Prehistory to the Present.
What I am arguing is the idea of light as metaphorical of 'soul' or some higher transcendent force/being originated from Proto-Indo-Iranians of Sintashta culture. This is a fact that many scholars agree with. It was later developed by Zarathustra in Bactria in a more nuanced and dualist way.
>He may not even have existed. Gathas has been linguistically analyzed and claimed to come from either an individual or group of individuals. Zarathustra may have been a composite of individuals or an individual. There is evidence he existed via Gathas, which goes far back.
Evan Garcia
how about you post links pdfs, articles and so on its an interesting topic that deserves more than a wikipedia page
Dominic Perry
I have two primary sources:
"Zoroastrian Influences on Judaism, Christianity, and Islam" by Anders Hultgard From Ch. 7 of Zarathustra and Zoroastrianism, edited by Michael Stausberg
Religions of Iran: From Prehistory to the Present, Part I, by Richard Foltz
Jackson Brooks
>Richard Foltz's Religions of Iran: From Prehistory to the Present. Not an evidence. Is there depictions from Proto Indo Iranians of Sintashta culture that supports your point? If so, point to them. Show picture if you can.
>This is a fact that many scholars agree with Many scholars agreed at one point that the Earth was center of the universe. It's irrelevant as to what scholars think.
>Gathas has been linguistically analyzed and claimed to come from either an individual or group of individuals
Well no fucking shit. Of course writings would come from people. That's not the issue. What matters is when exactly they were written?
Give a date, as the result of carbon dating or some other form of scientific hard science dating of writings found.
This is the problem with "humanities", no strong evidence to back up claims.
Connor Clark
yes. so? are you tryin to imply somfin nibba?
Joseph Bell
never read anything from those authors desu will read thanks senpai
>It's irrelevant as to what scholars think. Are you Arab or Jewish?
Kevin Thomas
The books I reference give sources. Indo-Iranians were responsible for Vedic and Zoroastrian cultures origin. Artifacts and reconstruction from texts (like haoma/soma rituals, burial rituals) in Ural Mountains and BMAC substantiate what I am saying.
Brayden Kelly
>if enough people believe in the lie then its true.
Oliver Green
Heraclitus established the concept of the Logos in the Persian empire in the same century as the first known records of Zoroastrianism. Fire is the first principle of the universe, the chaos in which stable forms arise from opposing forces. The Greek golden age of philosophy and Christianity both emerged from these arguably Persian ideas.
Samuel Smith
Please use the correct boards
Gavin Price
You are vastly overstimating Iranian influence on the west Most people in America think of the Christian God when they hear the phrase "divine light"
Nicholas Sanders
Shut up, Arab. There are literally books written on this with copious evidence. The evidence comes via inter-textual analyses, historical artifacts (e.g., Kartir Hangirpe's inscriptions, Darius' inscriptions, etc.), oral tradition, and more.
Justin Cox
The word paradise has Avestan origin. The word paradise derives from the Avestan word "pairi daeza", meaning "walled garden". Moreover, the word magic also has Old Persian origin. Language can be used to get an idea of influence. The fact is, you underestimate Persian influence.
Arthurian myths also very closely resemble Shahnameh.
Jackson Stewart
Fucking perennials, I swear
Asher Smith
I'm not a perennialist, but you cannot deny the genealogy of influences.
"For what constitutes the tremendous historical uniqueness of that Persian is just the opposite of this. Zarathustra was the first to consider the fight of good and evil the very wheel in the machinery of things: the transposition of morality into the metaphysical realm, as a force, cause, and end in itself, is his work. [...] —Nietzsche, Ecce Homo, "Why I Am a Destiny", §3, trans. Walter Kaufmann
Sometimes people construct different concepts to reference the same truth. That doesn't mean everyone is right, just those referencing truth.
Henry Smith
arya-nian eire-anian
Lincoln Jackson
You're an idiot and if you do not believe that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Word of God, God in the flesh, died for your sins and was raised physically from the dead, you will die, because you have to pay yourself for all the evil you have done in your entire life.
I have seen and felt the light of which you speak, it is an holy light of which I am most unworthy, I hope you feel ot one day, but if you do not believe In Jesus Christ, then I swear to God that you will not only not see that light, you will neither feel it, you will be burnt alive forever with the white flame which destroys the soul. For your sake turn to believing in Jesus Christ, Christ is faith, believe and don't die
Cooper Peterson
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Carter Diaz
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William Jenkins
Interestingly, one of my favorite scholars Stephen E. Flowers, synthesizes Germanic Neopaganism with Zoroastrianism.
He wrote many books, both practical and scholar, on Germanic Paganism. He also knows about runes well.
He also wrote several books on Zoroastrianism.
Dominic James
>scholar scholarly*
Dominic Peterson
What a load. Light comes from the sun and gives life, makes things grow and gives warmth. It was seen as divine since prehistory.
We're diurnal animals, darkness is instinctually scary and "evil". Light is the opposite.
Benjamin Morales
Light as divine and reminiscent of soul came from Proto-Indo-Iranians of Sintashta culture and Zoroastrians of Bactria, as I've defended. Language like the "light of soul", "inner light", and so forth came from such era and figures and was popularized via their influence.
Also, the historically Chinese actually view darkness differently and not as symbolic of evil, ignorance, or what have you.
