Are taxes neccecary?

Could a society without any taxes even work? Where would the police be, the roads etc?

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Won't work.

It could manage, but it would not excel.

Another form of taxing, but could be regarded as no taxes, would be a benevolent dictatorship.

Taxes is always theft, but the idea is that as long as the thieves or the people who stole those taxes, use those taxes that actually keep society in order. When taxes are being abused to buy $1 lightbulbs for $90....the system has failed.

Maybe with slaves, a relatively small population, and a monarch.

>Roads
>Police
Baby's first post so cute

Only with whites. Probably only with scandinavian whites with no outsiders.

Yes, privatize everything and watch the ghettos consume themselves while middle class neighborhoods flourish. We would need to figure out the policing issue to keep the nigger roaches at bay when they inevitably flee their shithole in search of more handouts the government isn’t supplying anymore.

Fucking based its Techno Viking

youtube.com/watch?v=UjCdB5p2v0Y

Does anyone remember that economy based video that was meant to simulate a real life nation?

It had shitty graphics, but you could play with 10 people in total, 5 on each side, and you could pick any political structure.

Hopefully someone remembers it, it's from the 80's. It's where I saw a no-tax nation do decent, but because the low-tax nation was ran well, 4 people on that team essentially were the free market, and 1 person that had the power to dictate where the taxes went intended for the benefit of the nation, that nation thrived.

The other nation with no taxes tried to do anarchy at first between the 5, but started struggling, so they banded together but had next to no taxes, each player on their own had their own areas as good as their skill and talent permitted, but as a nation it was less successful than the low-taxed nation.

There are many types of taxes, some are better than others.

Sales tax is a good tax, for example. If you want to buy shit go ahead and pay the tax.

Income tax is a bad tax, for example. It implies that the government owns you and the product of your work and allows you to keep some of it. Fuck that.

Bad taxes like Income tax are not necessary, I live in WA where there is no income tax and things work pretty much as expected.

Of course we could pay for things with a direct consumer-provider feedback loop, after shaving off a layer of bureaucratic waste and back scratching, while making the services competitively offered to meet our needs as a society.

In fact it would be much cheaper and the results would be better, just as they have always been before governments convinced idiots that they needed to perpetually siphon the fruits of our labour to give to their mates in a never ending gravy train.

I mean lets be realistic here OP, clearly everything would burn to the ground and society would cease to function right?

Yes... if every man gave his first born child to the state as a public servant. This would create a state labor force that would generate magnitudes more revenue for the state than taxes.

Citizens are in charge of maintaining the roads and upholding the law.

Construction workers and Police are just hired hands.

Taxes exist to pay other people to do your own job. Paying your employees is a tax.

>taxes is always theft

Only if they're mandated.

Lets say you want someone else to protect you (ie Police) and you pay a tax. Nothing wrong with this.

Now lets say you don't want someone else protecting you, but you are still expected to pay the tax. This is theft.

You wouldn't call it a tax, you would call it a fee or a dozen other names capitalism already has for trading money for services voluntarily without having a gun held to the temple.....know what I mean?

Income taxes are totally unnecessary.

But that will always be a problem with taxes, those that manage it will always abuse it, there must be some kind of super leader that manages the taxes, like the egyptian christians chose their pope.

I just wanted to state the most obvious problems about an taxless society
That would work. But roaming nigger hordes would come and take it all, it would be an eternal war against the savages.

I know that there are good and bad taxes, but the bad overweight. I mean what happend to the 50's america? You were the most rich, beautiful and perfect to live in country. I just think that the ever growing government fucked everything for you up, just so they could support niggers and minorities, only because they didn't want them to rise up and create an civil war.

Techno viking was like Sup Forums he protested that only big and official protests that were allowed by the state wouldn't get deleted from the public. Sadly the fuckparade died and now everyone goes to normie protests with normie music.

I don't really care for semantics.

There are optional fees and mandatory fees.

If you want me to refer to "tax" as mandatory fee and "fee" as optional tax, then I suppose I can do that.

Monetary inflation pays for services.
Taxes become unnecessary.

Yes it would work.

The US had no taxes for 100 years.

income taxes =/= taxes

Taxes on general income (rather then wealth itself or specific goods/property) is a relatively new concept, but taxes themselves are at least as old as human writing is currently known to be.

a state capitalist government who works to earn their own money

You can beat this by just doing that things that are not technically taxes.
Like tariffs.

Keep taxes on wealth & physical goods.
That means capital, like property taxes, and means sales taxes.

Income taxes are unconstitutional as ruled by the SCOTUS in 1894. Congress slithered around this via the 16th amendment.

Even mandatory taxes aren't theft.
It's like saying death is theft. Wrong, death is one of the only two certain things in this world. It is an empirical certainty.
The other is of course taxes.
Saying "taxation is theft" is like saying "nature oppresses people." Which only makes sense in some kind of metaphorical way. Or if you appeal to God (and therefore God is unjust, or is he?)

>Could a society without any taxes even work?
Yes. Except better.

You DO know, that the max tax americans paid per year wgile usa became great was : 2%.
No income tax.
Only pay tax, if have enough money. Poor ppl didnt pay tax at all.

Sales tax is fucking retarded because it literally provides a disincentive to spend and grow the economy.
Just have a flat income tax, sales tax is there purely because people believe that "well I can just buy less stuff!" which is complete bullshit.

If you just have a flat income and even lower capital gains tax you'll provide incentives for the average cunt to not act like a degenerate and chase good jobs and invest.

Having both Sales Tax or Income Tax is bad. That just means consumers are double-taxed.

Having one or the other is irrelevant. It suggests the economy is already based on currency instead of capital. You do not own the currency. It's an IOU from the government. It's one step away from full-blown communism.

Federal Reserve is socialism. If the Federal Reserve seizes all capital it will become communism.

Currently it is VERY difficult to trade and barter in the United States due to the reliance on banks.

You're wrong and the state of Texas is an example. There is no state income tax, they are sales and property taxes primarily. Texas is one of very few states with a SURPLUS as opposed to a DEFICIT.

You're either an indoctrinated parrot or an unfunny faggot.

I'm hoping its the latter. The only good commie is a dead commie.

brittain doesnt have police and theyre doing okay i guess

Oh yes, Benjamin Franklin sure was a fucking Commie!
Fuck that guy amirite?

I'm sure illegal alien workers on-top of undocumented border trading had no influence on that.

Property tax is a fucking scam to prevent the middle class from owning property.

There is a surplus because it's a primarily white state with no entitlements.

IF THE PROPERTY TAX EXISTS YOU DO NOT OWN YOUR PROPERTY, YOU RENT IT.

taxes would be fine it all of it went to developments instead of paying off jews. taxes needed in small amount if used effectively.

A military must be funded.
And privatized militaries were a bad idea, even back in rennaisance times.

Of course, the option would be a volunteer force where the citizens arm themselves.

But I doubt many would.

They'd simply expect others to do it, so they "won't be needed". Humans are prone to such reasoning, after all.

And organizing and training and coordinating militaries is also hideously expensice which I doubt a military based on charity donations will be able to pull off.

And a military IS needed.
Because otherwise the not-libertarian-schlaraffenland nations next door will simply invade and rob you blind.

tell that to commifornia and jewrizona
Property tax kept poorfags, women and niggers in this country from voting.
>Says the Fascist meme flagger anyway, in which case you DO NOT OWN PROPERTY ANYWAY

>Are taxes neccecary?
yes

moderately rare

Let me tell you a semi-autobiographical story

Once upon a time there was a young user who bought a house

His house was a in most terrible neighborhood, full of orcs, trolls, and other diversity

But then a wise city council of wizards told the user of a magic spell that could banish these foul creatures, the magic of property taxes!

The user rallied his homeowner friends and they used the magic of property taxes to drive the evil from the realm, then they used the funds to build their now 95% white neighborhood a brand new scho- er I mean castle.

The end.

Arizona at least tried to throw them out.

There's a reason commiefornians flock to Texas. Same old shit, difference scenery. The "steers and queers" stereotype exists for a reason.

If you want to be better than them, throw out your illegals and stop pandering to mentally ill.

Except this literally could have been done by a private entity buying a plot of land and forcing a HOA on anyone who wanted to buy a stake of their land.

Property taxes are a fucking scam that encourages you to be indebted your entire life.

to an extent yes. But US and Canada didn't have income tax until WWI. With roads you can always toll them to pay for the construction costs. police, in some shape or form you can't really avoid having. But a lot of our taxes go to things we really don't give a shit about on the whole: never ending aid to africa, setting up/toppling foreign regimes, pointless social programs. One one hand gov't should do stuff that a private contractor wouldn't bother with but on the other they go so far with it so as to be unaccountable and grossly mismanage our money.
I'd guess North America could be run by about 25% of what is currently taxed if done reasonably intelligently.

Yes. The ancaps have already figured out all this stuff. You merely need to google.

How did the Roman Republic fund itself?

I seem to recall them having privatized tax collection which caused some problems with embezzlement.

I’d say it’s necessary, but I have one question.

Why can’t the government print the money they need instead of collecting taxes?

Would it just eventually lower the worth of the money and they would just have to print more and more?

it would need to have a hyper-optimized budget

roads would be privately owned and maintained
road owners network their roads together, likely forming some sort of coalition to determine and enforce construction standards
roads would either have per-use tolls or the aforementioned coalitions would work together for a licensing program, where they determine the risk-level of a driver (based on expected damages to the roads and to other customers) and charge a fee for the license according to that value. then that license lets the driver use coalition-affiliated roads without having to worry about different tolls and standards

government is able to make money on its own, it can produce products and utilize its standing military in a mercenary fashion, preferably within the nation rather that getting involved in international affairs. so that translates to the government utilizing standing military to provide private defense to citizens

on that note, the police force can also utilize standing military, but there would still need to be a minimum dedicated police force in case the nation needs its military

a theoretical nation like this would benefit greatly from imperialism, with the spoils of conquest helping to alleviate the issues that come from not having taxes

in terms of court systems and public recordkeeping, the state charges fees for such services. court systems could also be completely privatized, but it would be more difficult to uphold unbiased justice

the whole thing could work, but it would require leadership and staff who are very smart, very effective, and very dedicated to the well-being of the nation and its people

which as we know from history, that would be impossible to maintain for long if we could achieve it in the first place

It could, but taxes would be replaced by fees. It's much more complex and harder for the stupid people and the government, but it would cost you less, if you are a smart person. It requires government to be more like a corporate entity, and it requires it to be efficient. Otherwise, the government would crumble.
About army: there would be armed 3rd parties, who would fight proxy battles. Because it's easier to pay them rather than keep your own army.

Forgot to add: it will not happen, because people are stupid, and old men are retards. Wish all the world leaders have realized that they are holding humanity back, and step down.

>Where would the police be, the roads etc?
Sponsored privately. I hope you like your police officers wearing McDonalds uniforms and having the giant "M" on the side of their cars. Roads would be paved by Walmart with literally every inch of it reminding you of their low prices. Do libertariantards seriously not know this?

lol. good joke.

>Roads would be paved by Walmart with literally every inch of it reminding you of their low prices. Do libertariantards seriously not know this?
Libertarianism is a spectrum, not all of it is hardcore AnCap Randians

taxes are only necessary when you have niggers

Yes. Based black man Walter Williams talked about this decades ago. The gummint prints money now. Just have them print what they spend. It actually would be a pretty good system. They would have to limit gummint spending to about 7% of GDP or go tits up. It would actually be better than what we have.

Taxes are completely unnecessary. We could have a great functioning government that collected no taxes whatsoever.

>are taxes neccecary
yes, for education

this would be a sneaky tax on savings in the form of inflation

which might actually be better than taxing productivity (income)

.
only little taxes are a good aproach.
so people will have more to them and can invest and do something with it that benefits society in a long term.

5% Flat rate income taxes and for sales taxes for everyone and companies. Limited welfare, limited immigration with basic healthcare with a private insurance for else.

Actually, gummint spending would have to be limited to 7% of GDP or inflation would be crippling. So that is a good thing. No money left for corruption. With a growth rate of 3% that would mean inflation would only be 4% and less with more growth. So all the incentives point in the right direction. Interest on Bonds and savings would settle at 7-8%. So it is actually a better system than what we have. Almost no gummint spending on IRS type corruption as NOBODY is taxed.

Give it some thought and you will see it is a system that has all the right incentives.

slavery is not cheap, you have to feed and house slaves for a long time while they work for you as opposed to just hiring and firing people for minimum wage

seems legit

but to get the federal budget down to 7% of GDP the united states would have to slash spending significantly, from about $3.9T to about $1.3T

Exactly. No more welfare or food stamps. That alone will pump growth 1%. No more $600 dollar toilet seats on aircraft carriers. No more “gummint grants” for bullshit like McAwfuls golf carts. No room for skim. Like I say, the incentives all point in the right direction.