Okay Muslims. I have a challenge for you. Prove me with an irrefutable argument that Islam is the true way.
BUT
Don't use a quote from the quran or the haddiths. I want a rational, scientific argument, to convince my rational atheist mind.
If you do convince me, I'll post a timestamped video of me saying the shahada.
Other urls found in this thread:
youtube.com
quranexplorer.com
quran-islam.org
en.wikipedia.org
uncoveredsunnism.wordpress.com
twitter.com
Religion is not a science. It's a faith. Look at all that has been created with the vehicle god has provided you with. Your eyesight alone is a miracle.
True. But this statement is valid for any religion. What makes Islam the true one ?
Also, the shahada is not in the quran. It's not necessary. You shouldn't include Muhammad in your worship.
Say, "What thing is the greatest testimony (shahādatan)?" Say, "God is Witness between me and you that this Quran has been revealed to me to warn you with it and whomever it reaches. Do you bear witness that there are other gods besides God?" Say, "I do not bear witness." Say, "He is but One God and I am innocent of the shirk which you commit."
6:19
all religions are in essence cults for which each have varying degrees of acceptance.
Muslim simply means one who submits to god, it's the same message of all Abrahamic religions.
Jesus didn't say go be Christians.
Those who believe and those who are Jewish, the Christians and the Sabians, the ones who believe in God and the Last Day and do good deeds; they will have their reward from their Lord and no fear will come upon them nor will they grieve. 2:62
But what if I don't believe in one God ? Most humans throughout history believed in many gods, or no gods at all. What's makes monotheism and so Islam, more valid ? Were the people believing in Hindu gods centuries before the first monotheistic beliefs wrong ? Were they punished like the texts say ?
>Jesus didn't say go be Christians
That's a funny way of interpreting "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
>Prove me with an irrefutable argument that Islam is the true way.
The Quran is the only book that predicts your actions. You're a disbeliever? That's because God wanted you to be a disbeliever.
All abrahamic faiths prior to the Quran spoke past you, and you had to logically deduce why you were a disbeliever.
Therefore, Islam is the truth.
If there were in them (the heavens and the earth) other gods beside GOD, there would have been chaos. Glory be to GOD; the Lord with absolute authority. He is high above their claims.
21:22
While I'm at it...
>the ones who ... do good deeds; they will have their reward from their Lord and no fear will come upon them nor will they grieve
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
>Ephesians 2:8-9
Don't lump Christians in with your Satanic worship claiming that we're all the same
Context.
I'm saying Jesus was a messenger, sent to the lost tribe of Israel - not someone who should worshipped as God.
I believe we are here to be tested, not to simply say you believe and then do whatever you please.
Lutheran here. Religion is not about truth. It is about giving order to society so other things can be done. Islam works with sandniggers because of their natural behaviour. Islam will not work for northern europeans unless they end up being the priestly/clerical class.
I'm not even that religious but you mudslimes really activate my almonds
>For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
People who don't believe chose not to believe, Islam justifies itself by taking away free will - fuck that
>sandniggers
Thanks for your input.
You're French, right? Read René Guénon. He provides the best explanations for you:
>Why there is more to the material world?
>What is that "more"?
>How occult societies and other structured systems of belief try to describe that "more"?
>How most fail, while some succeed to a certain degree?
>What is the common denominator to the explanation of this more?
>Why is tradition at the core of this more?
>Why is religion the best medium for the explanation?
>Why there are many religions describing one tradition and why differences arise?
>Why all religions, when ultimately taken at their purest form, free of imperfection, corruption of time, etc... all describe the same UNIQUE essence with different symbolism/form/ritual?
>Why is Islam, by postulating to be the last of the chain of prophecy, the youngest yet last traditional form still intact?
>How being the last and being intact as a traditional form connected?
There. Start with La crise du Monde Moderne and finish with Symboles de la Science Sacrée.
Islam is a meritocratic system that attempts to discourage racism and tribalism, which means that higher IQ people will rise to the top of that society and dominate it. If you look at Middle Eastern countries, generally the lighter-skinned and higher IQ people are the ruling and upper classes, even though the rest of the population is overwhelmingly dark-skinned and stupid.
That's why if Europeans converted to Islam, I do feel that Europeans would end up dominating Islam and leading it.
Before mudshits (((created))) Islam, other peoples have been living in the region for 20,000 years. They all had their own religions and deities and formed great civilizations such as Egypt. Were they all wrong?
It doesn't work that way - saying you believe doesn't imply that you believe
The point is that 'deeds' or 'works' hold no sway in the final judgement, but that doesn't mean you can cheat as you seem to say
>rational, scientific argument,
>islam and muslims
pick one bro
Converts usually are more inclined to appreciate Islam because they are not subject to hereditary tribalistic baseness like:
>i am arab thus i am perfect
>people can't understand because they don't speak arabic
>nothing but sandnigs allowed
The reason Islam had such a success whenever it got exported to other countries (the center generating Islamic faith and knowledge even shifting towards Persia) is because it is something that is truly appreciated by people without racial hubris.
And that's also probably why it's not welcome in there.
Jesus was the Messiah. Shirk much?
>which means that higher IQ people will rise to the top of that society and dominate it
Have you seen what mudslime clerics are like?
What implies that one believes?
>Saudis and the like
>muslims
>(((clerics)))
Shia Islam has the best clerical structure, though.
STOP FALLING FOR SHILL THREADS AND GET IN HERE.WE CAN HELP MOORE.
>Before Islam, other people have been living
Then We inspired you to follow the creed of Abraham. He was a monotheist and was not one of the mushrikeen. 16:123
And I followed the creed of my fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It is not for us to associate anything with God. Such is God's favour upon us and upon the people, but most people are not thankful. 12:38
>If you do convince me, I'll post a timestamped video of me saying the shahada.
You want to worship Satan and go hell?
Annual self-flagellation-on-back parades are great!
Kill yourself
Matthew 7:1 says it is not the place of man to judge (regarding sins and redemption), rather God is the only authority on the subject
>Reference to names in the Book of Life (or not in as the case may be) Revelations 20:15
>I want a rational, scientific argument, to convince my rational atheist mind.
Rationalism is one of the worst memes you can fall for.
Nothing in the world is rational, nobody acts rational nothing happens for rational reasons.
The fact to the matter is that humanity knows nothing about the universe, we have absolutely no clue why we are here or what we are supposed to do with our life.
Trying to approach life from a rational perspective sets you up for failure and despair.
That said Islam is a retarded religion and you should not practice it as a white European, for obvious reasons.
>You want to worship Satan and go hell?
Jesus' two greatest commandments are love god with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself.
The message in the quran is not any different.
God knows what is in our hearts when we worship him.
>What is the symbolic signification of the mortification of the flesh in christianity?
>inb4 it's strictly for christians lul
Right back at you.
I was talking about the Shia.
Chriatians can sodomise themselves with the chruch-certified Golden Holy vibrator™ all night long for all I care. So long it doesn't interfere with my personal life, I don't care very much.
...
how about the numerology and secrets of the Quran and future. How the Imam Ali (SAWA) knowledge and the jafr book. Dont forget the Kitab Al-Fitan Wa Al-Malahim where it clearly states the coming of the terrorists isis and the evilness of the jews how they will destroy the life of earth as it was good once. How the gays will be spread, how the females will rule over the male so on and so forth. Pretty mindbogling if you ask me.
I won't.
Religion is such a petty and unimportant thing in this day and age.
I agree with you to the fullest my brother. I came out as if I was against you. Sorry about that.
>not the place of man to judge
I agree, there will be a day of judgement.
>saying you believe doesn't imply that you believe
Again, what implies that one believes?
Islam might not be real but it makes perfect sense to follow.
Are (you) tired of your filthy Fedora tipping existence ? Seeking for more more depth, meaning and purpose to life than watching Rick and Morty till 5 in the morning in you cum smelling clothes? Want to embrace the trad life and reject the consumerist, nihilist rot that surrounds us today? Then Islam is for you. Islam proclaims for itself an absolute moral compass and thus encourages some universal values
>Piety
>Prudence
>Absistence
>Kindness
>Humility
>Purification of soul through yearning of God
More benefits of Islam
>Most feminist religion (ACTUAL feminism aka acknowledging the femininity of women and their delicate nature)
>Most trad religion
>Natural law
>Most uncucked people
>Ultimate unifying force
>Ummah
>Mosques are full despite Muslims being divided and scattered and leaderless (Churches are empty)
>Faggots not allowed
>Trannies not allowed
>Porn not allowed
>Degeneracy not allowed
Watch this and become a Muslim today.
quranexplorer.com
Just press the green button to go to other hadiths and proof in the book..
Among the people, there is one who trades in baseless hadith to mislead others from the path of God without knowledge and he does it as a mockery. For these is a humiliating punishment. 31:6
did you even read anything? Its from the Prophet Muhammad (SAWA) you hypocrite.
>Its from the Prophet Muhammad
Hadith are not necessary nor reliable
if you're on Sup Forums you already have the exact same values
while you roleplay on an anime website about the day of the rope for a pathetic power fantasy muslims really do just kill gays, whores, atheists, jews, degenerates and traitors in real life right now
how about the sunni scholar and accepted by all sunnis, heard about tabarani? Is he baseless?
You are not talking are you?
tabarani narrates: from Prophet Muhammad (SAWA) O Ali, you and your Shias are in the Heaven.
>how about the sunni scholar and accepted by all sunnis, heard about tabarani? Is he baseless?
[6:114] Shall I seek other than God as a law maker when He has brought down to you the Book fully detailed?
[6:115] The Word of your Lord has been completed, in truth and justice. Nothing can replace His Words. He is the Hearer, the Knowledgeable.
[6:116] If you were to obey the majority of those in the earth, they will mislead you away from the path of God. They follow nothing but conjecture; they only guess.
fuck abrahamic religions asterix
go with your ancestors.
If you want scientific reasons. The gods represent aspect of our lifes for example love, victory etc.
Don't waste your time with desert trash
SILENCE INFIDEL - YOU WILL BE BEHEADED FOR YOUR DOUBT.
Also, the Quran is beautiful - so beautiful (though you can only appreciate it in Arabic) - that only God could have written it.
Allah Akbar!
t. genuine muslim
>I want a rational, scientific argument, to convince my rational atheist mind.
Ex-muslim here, 2nd generation. You are never going to have rationality, not in the Abrahamic religions and especially not within Islam. The only comprehensible information you can get out of the haddiths is stratagems of war, but even then, Sun Tzu makes it look like child's work.
>I'll say the shahada.
That doesn't mean anything within the muslim culture. Even if you do become a muslim and attend mosque at least 3 days a week, everyone else will keep you at arm's length because you're a fucking Gora.
Do yourself a solid and convert to Christendom. I am now a practicing catholic and although rationality has little place when accepting Jesus Christ, the catechism as well as the work of the saints (mainly Augustine, Aquinas) will certainly take your mind to the prime mover (God). From there, it's a matter of faith which no amount of 'rationality' will help you attain.
>Trying to prove matters of faith and reason with science
You need to go back. Science is great, but it's scope of understanding is very limited.
>1
Answer this by yourself lol. We both agree that we follow quran
>2
Same answer as the first
>3
The Shia Muslims are not the majority dont worry about that. Just see the 1.2 billion sunnis.
yes yes latin America can lead on the beheading and amputation of people. Very sacred indeed.
>that only God could have written it
But if God had written it, shouldn't its alleged beauty remain unscathed if translated? Isn't your god powerful enough to do that? Why limit your message to one language?
>We both agree that we follow quran
Nah, you follow the opinions of self appointed experts, the quran is all you need.
This (Quran) is not fabricated hadith, but an authentication of what is with you, a detailed account of all things and guidance and mercy for people who believe. 12:111
>Just see the 1.2 billion sunnis.
I don't see your point. I'm not a sunni or shia, just a mumin.
See 6:116 again
If you were to obey the majority of those in the earth, they will mislead you away from the path of God. They follow nothing but conjecture; they only guess.
This is seriously turning to a cringe fest real quick.
How about this hadeeth that is accepted by both bukhari and muslim?
en.wikipedia.org
Is it false or are you following your own ''self appointed experts''.
Says he follows quran - quotes more Hadith
Hadith are not necessary nor reliable
The quran claims to be from God and complete. If true, no reason to follow anything else. If not true, no reason to follow quran.
God has brought down the Best Hadith; a Book (Quran) that is consistent in its frequent repetitions. 39:23
>too scared to even answer this simple question.
Thrives to throw me off to really basic knowledge that has been thaught to kids. Why are you doing this???? You realise you have contradicted what your sunni scholars have been telling you? (wich is all lies in my oppinion since the saqifa bany saa'd)
uncoveredsunnism.wordpress.com
Keep digging your hole mate. You have nothing, either you say Shia Muslims are the rightouse people of Islam or you are just a litterally a khawariji. Do your research next time you discuss with us.
I'll stick with the OP source, thanks though!
Asalam.
>The scope of understanding for science is very limited
Science: Well according to all these tests we ran using the scientific method, and the periodic table, and working out the variables we can come to the conclusion that... (input findings here)
Faith: It is because I believe that it is, no need for tests or criticism.
Conclusion: You're a retard.
You are welcome for running away.
All books are written by humans, from the minds of self serving humans. Even one as self-sacrificial as Jesus was self serving in that he wanted to be the most righteous martyr there ever was.
>from the minds of self serving humans
running away
kys niggers