When does life begin?

I'll start.
>used to feel differently
>realized I was just dancing around the truth
>now I feel life starts at conception

it starts at conception
i am still pro choice tho

Okay. Playing the devil's advocate, may I ask why you're still pro choice user?

may i suggest an alternative to prochoice? abortion should only be allowable when the baby is directly harmful to the woman or is a result of a forcible sex act, but never as a form of birth control

when does conception happen? when the sperm enters the outer casing of the egg? (a process that takes some time to happen) when the sperm breaks down and releases the male DNA? (a process that happens many minutes later and takes minutes to happen) when the dna combines (a process that takes minutes to happen)?

there is no instant of conception. It is all part of processes that are continual - making a choice of when to claim life begins is just that - making a choice - not on biological but moral grounds - it is a moral choice, not a fact.

I'm pro choice when it comes to ghetto nigglets reproducing like pigs.

And I would find that totally acceptable. I personally am not looking at this from a religious background (not that it's wrong to). But, I do believe it's a termination of a life which is inherently wrong. The only issue I see that arrives from your proposition is that (at least in america as I understand it) abortions under those specific guidelines are the extreme minority of instances. Most are economically or lifestyle motivated.

From before you even have sex, every life is part of gods plan

the core problem that is unsurmountable in these discussions is what do we value higher?
the fetus' rights or the woman's?

i can lay out my whole reasoning why i choose the later and not the former but i've been through this many times. i am a physicain, as an anaesthesiologist i take part in abortions /feel free to AMA), i had classes about this stuff and after endless debates with friends and colleagues i can only say that both sides do makes valid points and in the end it all comes back to whose rights matter more.
i have hardly ever seen someone having his opinion changed by a discussion about pro life or pro choice. this is a question about life and people tend to have very firmly set views and believes when it comes to that

i have some free time i'll gladly lay out my points but dont think that any opinions will be changed

life begins when the organism can care for itself e.g. live autonomously within its environment.

for humans this is maybe 25 years old.

>life begins when the organism can care for itself e.g. live autonomously within its environment.
>for humans this is maybe 25 years old.
so the average Sup Forumstard and Sup Forumsacks are never alive?
You cant kill what's already dead
This explains a lot

Please feel free. I am by no means a hardliners on this.
I agree that this is ultimately a matter of the mother's vs fetus' rights.
I personally feel that (extreme instances such as rape aside) the mother surrenders certain rights to a potential fetus when she chooses to procreate. For pleasure or otherwise, I feel humans are responsible for their bodies and actions. I also understand none of this has a dataset. I'm just curious.

The thing I don't understand is, the only viable argument for it not being alive is that it's basically not conscious, it isn't sentient yet, but a newborn baby to about just before 2 years old doesn't really qualify as that either. By that reasoning, a post-natal abortion should be completely fine too.

It seems to me, the justification for abortion being okay, and the arbitrary line where it isn't okay is entirely based on the toll it takes on the mother...

>I've not had to endure the full body horror of pregnancy yet and no bump is showing
>I can abort this little bastard and get away with it

>I've let this little fucker grow for too long and my body is under a lot of strain and I'm huge now
>the finishing line's not far, guess I better go through with it, if I'm suddenly not pregnant, people will ask questions

>I've given birth and it was horrible and I have this little beast that eats money
>If I were to "abort" it now, the war it waged against my body for nine months would all be in vain

It's fine.

I'll let the retards be pro-life.

Have fun with more darkskins, dumbasses.

Let them breed you out. Because of course that's the most logical stance on the issue.

Most pro choicers are in denial. They try to hide behind slippery definitions to deny the fetus its status as a human. The only problem choice people who are credible are the ones who acknowledge we are killing humans based on convenience.

imo when the brain are bigger than the brain of a rat or some other rodent, that's when i start considering them human

When do the processes that can be considered life begin? At the first cell division. When does meaningful life begin? At about 6 months to 2 years when infants and toddlers show actual self awareness.

I HAVE a baby (one month old) sitting in my lap right now and I am not just pro-choice, but I still don't even think she is functionally "alive" yet. She is basically a small robot.

I would personally encourage whites to have more children with whites than to bank on blacks always having abortions.

Pragmatically there are several reasons.
1. Most abortions are performed on non-whites, without abortion America would actually follow the 52% meme as opposed to reality which is like 68% white
2. Most people who get abortions are poor unwed women, statistics show that the children these women have are far more likely to grow up poor and grow up into career criminals. Put simply, when you are aborting a fetus you aren't aborting a future doctor or president, you are aborting a future felon.
3. It costs less for society to abort these mistakes instead of supporting them and their mothers via welfare.

Personally I just don't see any reason to outlaw it. Fetuses are definitely human, but they aren't people. They have zero self awareness, hell humans can't even pass the mirror test until they are a few months to a couple years old (unless you are African in which case you might not be able to pass the mirror test until you are 6 years old).

Life begins at conception. The only people who argue against this are disgusting faggots who hate life and want to kill babies, and the idiots who are thoroughly brainwashed by them.

the fetus is completely dependent on the mother. it feeds off of her to grow and develop. it needs the mother and not just any woman but that specific woman it is inside of. so once a woman is pregnant the fetus will use her. this sounds bad but i dont see it in any parasitric way, it's just the way nature is.
now a pregnancy can potentially be deadly and since we grant humans the right to self determination an unwanted pregnancy is at odds with this. and this is the point that it all boils down to:
Do fetuses have a right to be born? And if so whose rights are higher? the woman's right to self determination and health or the the fetus' rights to be born.
I make a distinction between born life and unborn life. The fetus is completely dependent on the mother whereas a person who is born can be taken care of by anyone. you dont "fully exist" unless you were born. just like conception marks a milestone in human life as it is the starting point, so is birth. it is the milestone where you have developed so far that you can now leave your "host"
a pregnant wife has completed her two milestones, the fetus ohas only one.i place the woman's rights higher.

In case of rape or acute danger for the mother lt is clear that abortions should be ok there. but given my reasoning they should also be legal for every other case, birth defects, failed contraception and yes, even carelessness.

this doesnt mean that pro lifers dont have good points. yes we are killing human life and i dont like to see abortions as post coital contraception. but if we allow abortions when a mother's life is in serious danger, given the possibility that every pregnancy has a risk of turning deadly it would be a violation of the woman's right not to allow her to end the pregnancy of she does not want to bear the risks of it.
abortions should ne the ultima ratio and sex ed is really fucking important

then again, when i see who gets most abortions at our clinic i am not that concerned anymore

When it's white

Thanks user. Just out of curiosity, ( I have an idea) who are these people that you were referring to coming into your clinic?

>the fetus' right to life or the woman's right to...????

Not have to deal with icky stuff for 9 months. like, um, I'm not doing that. I like wanna drink and go out, like... I can't even.

Life begins in my balls, spillijng seed is wrong.

I'd apply the same standards as for adults when defining what a life is (not when it begins).

To me it is after the first heartbeat and when the brain starts to get two halves. This is the first time we can talk about a living being.

So week 7.

By comparison, without two functioning brain halves you are brain dead and nothing more a collection of organ to be harvested (if you are a donor).

i work in a fairly large city at the biggest clinic in the area, so i dont get many abortions for "personal reasons" but since we are highly specialized and good at what we do we get the tough cases.
now i dont want to be racist of course but it seems that a certain group of people from a certain warm region where there is a lot of sand, really like fucking their cousins.
i'd rather watch those abomination getting vacuumed out of the womb than being held alive, fed and clothed with my tax euros.

on the other hand, it is really heartbreaking to see a nice local woman getting her pregnancy terminated because the fetus is so sick that it is killing the mother.

I'm pro choice because I'm essentially eugenicist, I would just never intentionally breed with a woman that would consider killing our child

When exactly life begins is irrelevant
the question we really want answered is
>when does human consciousness develop?
in which case id say just over a year, two maybe
any younger isnt fully human yet

Best answer !
Unironically!
U won the internet for today, sir!