Philosophical Themes in Anime

What Anime, regardless of the actual messages the creator(s) might have been trying to get through, provoked the most philosophical (however you define that term) introspection in you?

Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex here, just because it was the first time I was exposed to the liar's paradox. Other than that, it doesn't take much investigation to see that the philosophical wealth of Ghost in the Shell is largely illusory. It's cringe-worthy when reviewers wash their hands off dwelling into an in-depth discussion of the philosophical themes of the series because "there is just so much" or whatever. The themes are largely obscurantist and would be laughable if presented outside the medium (which not only makes it entertaining to take in the theme but also allows for its vague banter to attain levels of pseudo-philosophical charm comparable to the works of Hegel).

Other urls found in this thread:

40s-animeigen.com/tetugaku/
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Boku no Pico. It really makes me think about my sexuality.

Pic related is:

Napier, S. J. (2005). The problem of existence in Japanese animation. Proceedings of the American philosophical society, 149(1), 72-79.

You can get the whole paper after searching for it on libgen.io

they way KLK handled Electra's complex was awe-spiring

I'm not sure if you're trolling, because it seems very possible that you are not.

That's the beauty of Sup Forums.

I don't even need to triforce these days.

I believe that anytime someone mentions philosophy in an anime discussion they are secretly trying to avoid killing catgirls but failing.

I wasn't trying to insult you by the way, if you do have those kinds of sexual preferences. I genuinely would not be surprised if Boku no Pico made you question your sexuality.

I'm not saying it's a good anime or whatever, but BokuMachi made me reflect on my life. That happens with most time travel anime; it's not a gamechanger by all means, but it made me introspect the most. How many things I would've done differently, if only I could go back in time..

Unlike the MC, you can not turn back time - make the most out of your life while you can, or you WILL regret it eventually.

SoL and cute girls doing X is not philosophical.

Anime's depth regarding philosophical themes is laughable. As deep as a puddle.
Still, there are some interesting anime series that are fun to watch because of how they approach certain themes, even when it's not a very complex exercise. What it might lack in depth it can supplement it with visual imaginery.

K-ON!! episode 20 was hit me on the primal level. Incredibly simple, but so sad at the same time.

Yeah people don't realize that, without social stigma against them, those preferences aren't that unusual.

In ancient Greece it was quite normal, infact even expected, for a man (and I'm talking even an emperor like Marcus Aurellius) to engage in sexual activities with both his male and female youthful servants.

What anime would Henry James have liked, Sup Forums? I like to think that if he were alive today, he'd be shitposting it up in Euphonium threads.

Yeah, we know that everything japanese is laughable and worthless, Edgy kun. No need to remind us in every thread.

Some do have some depth of philosophical themes such as Humanity has Declined, Psycho Pass or AoT. It is just that the industry's face is that of harems and cute girls doing things.

Is it about nihilism?

>What it might lack in depth it can supplement it with visual imaginery.
He's right mate.

Even then I'd say the actual depth of its discourse (by which I'm basically referring to the chances of it not being laughed at, looked down upon and ignored by the academic community) is pretty low.

But, note what OP said:

>provoked the most philosophical (however you define that term) introspection in you?
>however you define that term

For many people who aren't that philosophically bent (maybe they'd like the categorization of "non-autists") even those little, essentially trivial, reflections on life certain anime provoke can be enjoyable, like this guy

let me guess your favorite book is blood meridian because it's a true work of art. Fucking reddit kids and your "cringe". These retards cringe at everything to fight off their own insecurity issues.

I didn't say that. There's no need to get triggered.
I even said that I enjoy anime because of its intrinsic qualities. Not because anime is not deep is worthless.
Try to breath and relax, user. Because I'm not the one in here trying to pick up a fight over
>opinions
>Humanity has Declined,
Haven't seen it. I might give it a try.
>Psycho Pass or AoT
Yeah, nah. Psycho Pass is just name dropping and the pose of being philosophical just because it has quotes. Space Dandy has more philosophical value than PP. AoT is Attack on Titan? That's just silly, user.
>cringe
But I didn't say that.
What's with being so defensive just because I don't think anime is deep as a book?
I like anime. I enjoy it as it is and I don't need to try to disguise it with a deep and meaningful discourse to pass it as a meaningful hobby.

Wow, two name checks of Susan Napier in under two hours. Are you samefagging or is it just a weird coincidence?

>SnK
While I would've laughed it off had you said that a year ago, the latest developments changed everything. Even if it's an imitation of the events that pre-date and followed WW2, it's a good change. Not introspection, but it makes you think.

The fact that Psycho Pass gets mentioned as an anime with strong philosophical themes should tell you how poor most anime is at it. It shows us a laughably poor system in the first episode, and spends another twenty "finding" flaws in it and trying to look clever.

Kino's Journey does better in any given episode than PP did in its whole run. And all Kino did was fit a loose narrative around simple thought experiments.

watching the films of Satoshi Kon like A Perfect Blue, millenium actress and his series Paranoia Agent made me question how perceptions of each other really alter our living reality.

Psycho Pass still presents some political themes with the whole Sybil System and in some sense a theological question of predestination. But some parts are bad philosophy IMO

AoT explores existentialism in some sense with the whole question of humanity confined in walls to being imprisoned. There are also moral implications given that the Titans are humans(confirmed in the manga).

Humanity has Declined is quite philosophical but its outlook on humanity is pessimistic.

SnK made me hate Bob Marley

Op here, the following is me too:
I just thought I'd put that out there if anyone was interested, what else are you referring to?

No one is "triggered" they are just telling you to fuck off. You say you don't want to argue over opinions, but then say that anyone who tries to write about anime academically is somehow pretending to find meaning where there is none. You're not even discussing anything, you just showed up and said "anime isn't deep". What compared to the entire collection of human literature? why is it even being compared? Don't be surprised when you act retarded and then get called a retard.

>There are also moral implications given that the Titans are humans(confirmed in the manga).
Frankly, that's on the same level as revealing that zombies are humans and might still feel something in any zombie apocalypse movie.

It's not like Nutshack has philosophical themes in it

anime primarily tends towards some sort of wish fulfillment which in this case harem, bland males and cute girls doing some shit. So you won't get much room for any exploration of a particular issue in philosophy because such requires a good plotline and a setting that enables such to not feel forced. This is why Psycho Pass is considered deep but in fact it cannot even grasp the Omnipotence Paradox

>existentialism

You have no idea what this means..

+1

True but at first we are not told of their origins and so we assume them to be beasts. Then all of a sudden we are slowly led to that realization which can induce some sense of disturbance, there's one part in the manga where Connie expresses some sense of discomfort over a Titan that resembles his mother

Texhnolyze made me think, if only because of how well it presented it's themes.

Loser bitch I am a professor of philosophy in Oxford

Show some respect. I written much more articles than your father earns in a month you closet dwelling pleb.

Now take a sit and I will school you with one simple lesson

Define "philosophical theme," in terms of how it's different from a regular theme.

>Psycho Pass yadda yadda
I know. The thing is that it is not a well achieved meditation.
>AoT yadda yadda
>Humanity Has Declined
You see, the point here is not that anime is or isn't(, has or hasn't,) philosophical (value or themes), because everything, and I really mean EVERYTHING, can be interpreted and be given a political or philosophical meaning. And I'm really proclive to it, I totally dig it. But after a while one needs to reconsider and try to make an exercise of distinction between nurtured and bland philosophy works. Anime tends to go to the bland side. Your recommendations are what most of people in Sup Forums would denominate as bland, too.
Still, I would recommend you Lain and all those "meme" shows that shitposters tend to consider as hipster and overrated.
Other user tried to make clear that I'm not bashing anime but whatever. I don't care and I know you don't either. If you like I can talk about how I enjoy Homunculus.
Gantz did it better

>much
>to a countable quantity

Don't even bother telling the young euphoriacs on here that half the terms they try using, they use incorrectly.

yadayadayada tell that to me in class bitches. I am the master professor. I have you know that philosophy students worldwide will use my articles on the SEP to complete their assignments.

I AM THE PHILOSOPHER KING

>we assume them to be beasts
Maybe if you're not really familiar with the usual zombie and horror tropes.

Maybe you are a moron who cannot into philosophy. Time for a lesson from the professor

No you're not bashing anime. Youre just a phil101 major who read two books and now thinks they can discuss philosophy with the best of them. Protip: Philosophy isn't some inherently difficult or respected field. It's literally just academia masturbating each other and finding ways to write about something on which all the great works have already been written. It's funny you keep trying to act like anime doesn't live up to the standards of philosophy, but most people would consider art a more respectable field. Im sure your going through your "I'm a deep thinker" phase and that's ok, but please stop telling us.

Why are you so upset and making so many assumptions?

Someone was talking about Susan Napier in the Lain thread. That's all.

That's right. And the best part of my job is that I get paid to do it and argue about meaningless shit all day and all night long.

Yesterday I wrote about the definition of "human". Yes, a whole article about a fucking definition which will be published within the next few weeks.

There are lots of anime loosely driven by philosophical ideas, but usually not in any complex way, and if it is in a more complex way, the show is usually unwatchable. This is generally limited to basic existential questions.

For example, I could argue that mono no aware is a Japanese philosophy for approaching some basic existential questions, and as an idea firmly built into Japanese culture, it's been hugely influential in anime. I think YKK is a perfect example. It attempts to address what are certainly some very intro-to-philosophy type questions (how do I achieve satisfaction in a world where I'm irrelevant, etc.) in a very general but impactful way. The whole iyashikei genre is built around this. Does it present novel ideas about any type of philosophy? No.

Philosophy is fucking boring, and any anime which tries to present a well-formed philosophical argument is also, by definition, boring. GiTS '95 tried to actually take philosophical themes seriously, and that's why its only worthwhile quality is the art, design, and aesthetic (Oshii is a hack). GiTS:SAC was great because it largely dropped all that shit, only dipping its toe into philosophical thought as a meaningless backdrop to plot scenes. It was entertaining as a motherfucker, and more worthwhile philosophy could only have ruined it.

I'm not saying philosophy shouldn't be studied or doesn't have value, but I am saying that it should stay in the only place where it actually exists: textbooks. We already have enough forces trying to ruin anime, thanks.

Wangan Midnight of all things was a surprising dip into Existentialism. 2/3s of the story arcs end because the new rival has an epiphany that racing was pointless for them and drops out. Tuners and racers are aware that tuning cars and racing them is pointless unless they value it so they race and tune until they age out and no longer value it.

Nobody cares. Unless there's an anime about your life story coming out, shut up.

Most Studio Ghibli films can be discussed academically because of so many underlying themes and deep awareness of tropes. Also, a lot of mythology and references to history and literature. Jung's archetypes. It would be interesting too. Almost anything else I can only see discussed in the context of post-modern philosophy, pop culture, entertainment and the spectacle. And it would be depressing and predictable

personal, right? non-meme answer would be hedgehog in the fog and princess mononoke

>Oshii is a hack
wew lad
are you by chance sephirotic?

I hope you dont have high standards. Also more important than any is whats the different between western art and japanese art

what is it?


also my memory is kinda fucked so im probably missing

Gundam SEED Destiny.

Pathetic neet. Take a seat in my class and I'll show you the art of rhetoric so hard you would be sucking my cock

Fate

>Persuasive essay
Fucking genius.

I want to read it

I recently started watching an anime entitled Pico to Chico, and all I can say is… Wow. Unlike so many modern shows that stumble over every excruciating minutia of their characters, Pico to Chico tastefully crafts a story and leaves the characters to mystery (only a fool would dare call the character development “shallow”). Post-modern existentialism is the soup of the day as we progress through their adventure, only to find that materialism is the only thing that keeps us living, but it’s not in a pompous, pseudo-intellectual style that implies that’s a recent phenomena; it’s handled delicately but will impact you in a way that leaves you asking “Why?” Unlike our hack-ridden film industry, Pico to Chico uses metaphors in an excruciatingly subtle way. Sharp-eyed spectators should be able to spot the humanistic properties Chico’s sister displays. Just when you think all of the questions raised will be answered, the film comes to a halt, leaving you, the viewer, left to ponder the hidden questions scholars have kept to themselves up to their untimely deaths.
I don’t think this film justifies an arbitrary rating of stars; it’s much better than that. It deserves a place among the highest modern philosophical works of our world. Nietzsche, thy name is Pico.

>written by urobuchi

Dumb frogposter.

The only piece of Japanese media that actually made me think is Sumikko no Sora-san

This is the one with the philosophical turtle right?

Yes

>SAC
>Obscurantist
>Pseudo-philosophical

In what way was it deliberately obscure? Is OP retarded?

>all these pseudo-philosophers ITT
losers

>Another thread of psuedo-intellectuals/philosophers bashing on anime's intellectual value with no real substantial arguments with actual examples
>One faggot even bashes people for finding such value in anime but avoids any argument challenging his opinions

Why are these becoming so frequent lately.

But people... you can't force my brain to shut down every time something in anime makes me think.

Denying people have a brain and are supposed to use it is meaningless. I'll find philosophy even where there isn't, I just need to think and imagine, and you can do nothing against that.

Your advocacy of obscurantism won't convince anyone, why don't you try talking to walls? They'll certainly agree with you and be on your level of reflection.

Great list of philosophical lines in anime:

40s-animeigen.com/tetugaku/

>SnK made me hate Bob Marley
explain

>It's not like Nutshack has philosophical themes in it

Pic related is a philosophical criticism of you

A interesting topic regarding the quality or ideas of Anime in Sup Forums, this is RARE

I agree with you that most of the industry series don't even try to have an artistic value, let alone touch philosophical themes. Though, after the 90's a lot of series tried to fake that topic, and it only resulted on the author puking his high school philosophy textbook first chapter.

Now, Animation as a way of transmitting ideas still lacks the development of other art forms as literature or painting, etc. So, everything we got will be limited at best. Regardless, i think there are some series that, even if it's a little, make people think.

Say what you want, but Evangelion was a game changer in the industry, along with Ghost in the Shell. Another one i could think is Madoka.

Hell even Fate, with all the coarse writing of Nasu, touched the topic of the clash of the ideals in oneself against the reality.

I'll put most Ghibili work in another self, that shit are really artworks

Not only that, but Miyazaki uses each opportunity to make a critic of the current development and fails of the Japanese Culture, something that almost no one else does without being subjective

>Not understanding Hegel when there's so many books on how to read him as well

Gatchaman Crowds Insight made me realize most people don't really want a say on how their country is handled.

Let me guess, you're not very good at math?

this really.

Virtually anything can generate philosophical thoughts to answer OP. Visual media are good at provoking visual imagery from which philosophers can muse and ponder ideas. But of course, these ideas are not as clear-cut and may even appear amateurish when compared to text-based philosophical works but in actual fact, they simply have different strengths and weaknesses.

Visual media are good at covering broad aspects of philosophy in remarkable ways and are more accessible sources of inspiration imo Texts are good at pinpointing things in a reductionist fashion but when they take broad strokes, they become unreadable messes where the author's point is completely muddled. Couple that with all the hack philosophers claiming to have made the discovery of the century and you get a nasty elitism by those who don't recognise that the human psyche predates them by quite some time and can manifest outside of their creations.

tl;dr elitist philosotards are just that

It is.
Cute little girls make me think about the good things in the world.
That after all the suffering there is something to look which will brighten your day however shit it was.

The same thing could be said about hollywood and other western television, as well as a very large portion of modern books. Anime only falls behind because its the newest medium while books have been printed for hundreds of years.

>hollywood
yes
>other western television
Fuck yes
>very large portion of modern books
Most yes, there is a term called "pulp fiction" and many people use it quite broadly.

nothing animated has ever stuck me as having philosophical depth before

That's because you have no idea what you want, though your stance is certainly much better than OP's wide-eyed adolescence.
Actual philosophy means to carefully dissect and analyze a subject. It requires exact definitions and precise wording. It is not what anime is for, what fansubs would be able to deliver or what anime-fans might enjoy watching.
People expect "philosophical" anime to deliver pre-chewed knowledge. But there is a name for that sort of thing. It's "preachy".
So that's not what they want either.
"Philosophical" anime, as I understand the term, are anime that delivers topics or questions that give you pause for thought. It is thus entirely subjective. has the right of it, though to be fascinated by time travel arcs for that reason is a bit bewildering to me.


Jesus Christ, I'm a faggot.

What do you mean I don't know what I want?

>People expect "philosophical" anime to deliver pre-chewed knowledge.
I included you in "people".
Feel free to disagree with that.

Wrong, I actually prefer it. Not liking Hegel doesn't excuse you for not knowing him.

Innocence is one of the worst films ever made.

Nah, that's not really what I think of as philosophy. Philosophical art for me, to give an example, is something like Duchamp's Fountain. Not something pre-chewed, nor some subjective impression. I haven't experienced that in animation.

It's a urinal with a signature m8.

autism

Being and Time is paper and ink m8.

Yes but it actually has substance and content, a urinal with a signature does not.

PURE ideology

Modern art is post-ironic art.
Don't reply to it.
I'd recommend reporting it, but unfortunately there is no report function for art.

Perhaps it was too deep for you?

>He places value in "scatological art"
Precisely why depicting philosophical concepts has lost all skill and meaning. There is no thought, there is no skill.

>he has no idea who he is quoting

*visually depicting

No I know what he's going for i'm just going to refuse to address it because it's trite.

Who is it that you were you quoting in your post?

Nobody other than a vauge depictive term for the use of toilet/fecal oriented art, do you have a problem with this?