Super Saiyan = 50x base
Ascended Super Saiyan = 100x base (slight decrease in speed)
Ultra Super Saiyan = 150x base (major decrease in speed)
Mastered Super Saiyan = 100x base
Super Saiyan 2 = 200x base
Super Saiyan 3 = 400x base
Super Saiyan God = at the very least 10,000x base
SSGSS/Super Saiyan Blue = power increase actually isn't that huge so probably 25% stronger than predecessor
Does these numbers sound right to you, or is there something you wanna change?
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>Does these
Is there something wrong with my grammar?
Nothing to say huh?
Don't get upset.
Well, answer me. What do you mean with >Does these ?
Figure it out.
It should have been "Do these" but that's beside the point; I'd say your numbers make sense, but what about SS4?
Deez Nuts
HAH, GOT EM' XDDD
Wow, didn't know it was that easy to make stupid people mad.
For Super Saiyan 4 I'll probably with the classic Super Saiyan 3 x10. So in other words: Super Saiyan 4 = 4000x base. Do you agree?
Wow, that's hard to say honestly. I consider GT an alternate continuity. Calling it non-canon seems unusual now that there are other universes in the Super anime/manga, and alternate-timelines are already canon.
I'm curious to hear what the numbers are for SSJ4 as well now that you brought it up.
Hello there new user. Do you like my multipliers?
I dunno about that, SS4 being 4000 means it's just 6000 below being capable of fighting gods, even though Goku still had trouble with Baby in that form; I'd say it's probably 1000 at most, maybe Gogeta SS4 could be 5000ish.
>implying it's as simple as a static multiplier
The boost for super saiyan could be something far more complicated. Such as:
base_power_level + 147000000 * (base_power_level / 3000000) ^ 0.25
Here is what this comes out to at different power levels:
>If base power @ 3 million. SSj power @ 150 million.
>if base power @ 25 million. SSj power @ 253 million.
>if base power @ 150 million. SSj power @ 394 million.
>if base power @ 500 million. SSj power @ 928 million.
...
Eh, I'll take the multiplier theory; it's best to keep headcanon simple.
Power levels are bullshit
I'd just like to point out that those numbers are made up bullshit and you're a retard. Stop reading the "guidebooks" and start reading the manga.
Yea it's just if we were comparing the Z universe to the real universe almost no natural phenomenon, including ki, could be explained through a simple multiplier.
Yes I realize it's just a chinese cartoon =)
IT'S JAPANESE YOU BAKA GUY JEAN!
SSJ1 = 50 x base
SSJ2 = 100 x base
SSJ3 = 300 x base.
SSJ forms have hard multiplier limits. No amount of training will give them new mulitplier bases.
Which is why they all seek to ascend to new levels. Each new level has a new hard multiplier limit and they don't have to use techniques like ascension, ultra, and pure mastery to get new levels of power and use out of them.
The multiplier that accompanies SSJ2 makes even the smallest use of ki ten times more effective then mastered ssj1 with ascension or ultra used to increase ki and strength output.
Ascended and ultra saiyajin are litterally them increasing the power of their base + learning how to manipulate the ability to push ki into their bodies to increase their base strength.
Perfected is simply them learning how to stay in SSJ1 form for long periods of time and almost completely eliminating how draining and tiring the ki use is.
SSJ God have no idea and you might be right. SSJ Blue however is not as strong as god apparently and has far more weaknesses.
Toriyama himself stated all of those numbers. Except for god.
That's pure speculation at this point.
How is it that Freiza is casually blow up planets like Earth yet when these guys who are 100000000 times stronger then Freiza fight they barely manage to destroy a building or two. I get that they are trying to limit the damage but it just seems dumb.
It is as simple as a static multiplier.
Static multiplications of power has been a thing in DB since forever.
Sounds good, but what are your views on temporary fusions (dance) and permanent (earrings)? Just multiplying the bases used in the fusion by each other?
>STOP HAVING FUN
Nah
Ki can be harnessed and used in many different ways. It's not just a giant nuclear force that destroys everything no matter what.
It has to be consciously and willfully harnessed and directed.
The amount of people who even know how to create a ki attack or energy attack that can destroy a planet while being below ten million is miniscule.
The amount of people above that and aren't able to live in outer space or survive in the vacume of space are not trying to destroy the planet.
You can't just preface your retarded bullshit with "Toriyama stated" and expect me to believe it. Unlike you, I've actually read Dragon Ball.
Also
Great Ape = 10x base
Golden/Super Saiyan Great Ape = 500x base
Super Saiyan 4 = undefined increase from Golden Great Ape
the only reason the dbz franchise still exists is because there's still the sheer amount of american babbies' first anime retards to exploit. nothing needs to make sense since those faggots will gladly continue to shovel shit in their mouths no matter the reason
Maybe try talking about the plot instead of fucking numbers
You don't like numbers?
toriyama said in an interview once that the 50x multiplier lowers over time, closer to 2x
Basically, the SSJ power ups are breakthroughs
just like how SSG raised his power even after he dropped out of it.
Fusions are just 1+1 combinations unless stated otherwise.
Although the fusion dance seems to have some small inbuilt multiplier because goten and trunks together being able to harm fat buu while in SSJ1 is beyond far fetched. So there has to be some power enhancment of some sort going on there.
Might have something to do with the technique itself being what drives the fusion and thus allows for greater power output.
However it does have the built in 30 minute time limit. ON TOP of the technique burning out if they use a technique that is too powerful and drains the ki pools of both users so they can't maintain the technique for long.
They MIGHT be able to train the technique to last for longer if they use higher level energy techniques like SSJ3 or the Tribeam or a particlarly powerful energy blast if they train for it. But that's a theory that's never been tested or even talked about in canon so it's just complete speculation at this point.
Vegetterot seems to be a straight 1+1 fusion.
It's strength lies in it being a magical fusion that uses external energy to keep it together.
Thus it is or was not supposed to be affected by high level energy attacks and they(singular or plural no matter)were completely tapped out and still remain fused together.
That's a very powerful ability.
However, with it being retconned into being an hour long fusion if you don't do anything to ki intensive or over the top which will shorten it, meaning they gave it fusion dance rules...
The potaro earings are now in all ways inferior to the fusion dance.
The namekian fusion is an whole other beast. We have no idea how fusion works between namekians. Piccolo got markedly stronger after fusing with nail on namek, but it was only enough to get to about...1 million I believe.
We have no idea if it's a straight 1+1 or if it has some kind of SSJ type high multiplicative ability. Which would be rather interesting. What with Guru being a huge ancient namekian.
Are you fucking retarded?
Toriyama himself stated that he wishes that he didn't make SSJ1 a 50x base multiplier and stuck with a 10x multiplier.
There is tons of stuff outright stating what the multiplier is and all of it is word of god.
You show me one fucking single solitary piece of evidence that states that Toriyama outright says anything posted is wrong or corrects it.
You do that and I will actually think about what you said. Till then you're a fucking retard who knows fuck all about fuck all and is being a faggot.
Without those numbers the plot means nothing and the entire thing devolves into sillyness.
Go watch Super if you want DEEP PLOT based on fuck all.
now where you place this transformation?
Super is outright destroying the franchise in the west.
Not even Funi wants to touch that shit, and absolutely no one is in a hurry to get it.
backin you up with the interview
kanzenshuu.com
When Goku first went into God form, he was so surprised at the speed increase that he flew about 1 kilometer past Beerus. If we go By that Super Saiyan 3 = 400x base, that tells me that he got OVER 10x stronger than he's ever been before.
what trunks has is the true super saiyin god transformation
it was said that only gods were allowed to eat the fruit from the tree of might because it costs the life of an entire planet to make
basicly the ki of a planet, trunks became a god as soon as he took in the spirit energy in the last episode
Personally I see Future Trunks' (asspull but badass) new form as a Pseudo-Super Saiyan God; so in other words we're probably looking at a SSJG/2 a.k.a 5000x base
and what about ssjr?
toei mary-sue asspull-bullshit.
this is what happens when you let autists and ten-year-olds write the story for you.
>because his power is maximum
its the super saiyin verison of the red ssg
>using non-canon-films to justify this bullshit
I have no fucking idea. But according to the Daizenshu: "Super Saiyan Rose is a Super Saiyan but with God "Ki". So I guess it's power = Stronger than "pre-time chamber" Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta x50...
Them does seem correct
>>them
WE DONT KNOW HOW SSJ FORMS WORK!!!
Is all I can say about it.
If he had the look of a USSJ, all bulky and shit, and they didn't have that pointless confusing blue aura, I'd say he's got some middle ground between ultra saiyajin and ascendant and can handwaive him putting out shitloads of power.
If they didn't show vegeta outright shitting on his ultra saiyajin 2 form before....
Right now this is just some odd mary sue super form that doesn't fit anywhere.
Coudln't they have just shown him getting battle damage and having his fucking stupid scar burned off and jacket lost or something?
Everything about it from why he attained it, to it's look, too it's extraordinarily high power output makes no goddamned sense.
I mean I would have been able to handwaive it if they dropped a few of those trash WHO AM BLACK and travel back and forward through time "LETS TALK TO THE CHILDREN OF THE FUTURE" eps to show goku vegeta and trunks training with whis to get him some god ki or something. But there's nothing.
Nothing about that form makes any sense. It's just a plot convenience.
All of that because they're too fucking cheap to create a new cg trunks or make him go SSJ3.
Worst part is that they'll never ever even attempt to explain what that new form is or even hint as to where it came from.
Or how him going to the past helped them in anyway.
Where would SSJ Vegetto then be in your opinion?
Baby has access to Vegeta's memories, which should include his experiences as Vegetto since Goku remembered them, and Goku also agreeing with Baby's statement of possessing the greatest Saiyan power. That form is also far from Baby's strongest, since he transforms twice after that, his final form being a Golden Oozaru, which should still retain the 10x multiplier. Super Saiyan 4 Goku obviously beat Baby.
In short:
SS4 Goku (Baby Saga) > Golden Oozaru Baby >* Super Baby 2 > Super Baby 1 > Super Vegetto
SSJ4 is not 10x SSJ 3, otherwise Goku wouldn't have beaten Baby since Oozaru Baby = 10x Final Form Baby who is >>> SSJ3 Goku.
SSJ 4 Goku is at least 20x SSJ 3 Goku
>Gogeta SS4 could be 5000ish
SSJ 4 Gogeta absolutely curbstomps Beerus into the ground.
That picture. Pure gold.
That form happened before the ridiculous spirit bomb sword technique.
...
It's just SSJBlue except pink...for some reason. Probably FABULOUS reasons.
So the multiplier might be the same, but because of PURE GOD KI and his body remembering mastered SSJ1 he can maintain that form indefinitely and get instant zenkai boosts.
Which shouldn't put him over goku because zenkai boosts are comparatively minor boosts and require being able to survive near death level ass kickings and beatings to benefit from.
That seems about right.
But the Blue form is apparently not as powerful as SSG.
And SSG is just regular goku but brimming with pure godki.
What would have happened if he went SSJ while in SSG mode?
Blue is stronger than SSG.
Sauce.
>speedwatching
this is a whole another level, holy shit
It's messing with my head that people still believe that Red is stronger than Blue, one year after it got explained that it's the other way around baka
Sauce, I don't remember this and I've watched every ep and even watched the movies.
Your mistake was trying to make sense of Dragon Ball.
God and blue are not multipliers.
They are ceiling breachers.
In order for the whole god thing to make sense there is an upper limit that they could not surpass.
In the trashcan.
I can't deal with all this autism.
No one took the bait, so I'll just say it:
They're touching it. And they're literally doing it right now. Funimation dub is on its way.
It is stated multiple times in the Revival of F arc
even in the movie
>power levels
What power level do you think would Boros have?
I guess he's stronger than Nappa but weaker than Freeza so maybe a PL of 100k?
Is that fair?
Not canon
why wouldn't they just stop in SS3??
goku looks alpha as fuck and the shows are in it's peak.
Far too high, below 20k.
kind of, DBZ ki blasts have a lot more power than any of his attacks, but physically I would mostly agree
>but physically I would mostly agree
He's nowhere near 100k. Vegeta at a power level of 19k was already threatening to destroy the planet.
That makes fuck sense at all.
>Piccolo will always be just SLIGHTLY under the bar to be useful
>Tien will never become 'enlightened' through training and gain a transformation that makes his third eye glow, and gives him two extra arms
>Krillin will never gain a similar transformation that makes all the dots on his head glow
What is Ascended Super Saiyan? Isn't that what they called SSJ2 for a while (until Goku shows SSJ3 to Babidi)
He's referencing Vegeta's bulky form (not Trunks' even bigger one), which they thought was the form surpassing SSJ.
Ah right, cheers broseph
Yeah, they sound like autism.
You're not an authority on Dragonball or powerlevels, so your fanfiction-level powerlevel definitions are incorrect no matter what you do.
Go edit a wiki with your bullshit.
Laser cannon
Super Saiyan was always defined as a 50x multiplier, it's not fanfiction. The SSJ2 and 3 numbers are relatively in-line with what's been said in the past as well IIRC. His god number sounds retarded, though.
What's numbers do you think would be more fitting, shitlord?
Isnt SSJ4 considered a limit breaker?
Yes, Super Saiyan 4 is a Limit Breaker because of the fact that it presses the users power to new hights, if there is a Life at Risk need for it. However, even the limit breaking form has its limits, it can only go as far as the user's body is capable.
Gohan is weak
Well no shit sherlock, but not AS weak as most people think.
What's a limit breaker?
>Super Saiyan = 50x base
Goku wasn't even pushing 1m powerlevel before going SSJ.
He was 150m afterwards.
It's mostly just what's necessary.
Your guesses are pointless because unlike DBZ, Super doesn't even try to be consistent with power levels. That's why Goku could trash Trunks at SS3, yet Trunks could fight more or less evenly with Black or Zamasu, who in turn could trash Goku SSB.
Don't even bother.
SSG should be way stronger than Blue and unattainable. Blue should just be an imitation.
Of course that's not how it actually is in the series, but that's how it should be.
So Cyborgs created by a human being stronger than the Emperor of the Galaxy is consistent?
I could not really but it's a cartoon so I'll let it be silly buy Trunks getting super-angry and surprising Black/contending with Zamasu granted there was some explanation for him harnessing a level of God Ki which there won't be.
Him fucking with fused Zamasu was worse.
This.
>Goku wasn't even pushing 1m powerlevel before going SSJ.
Yes he was.
The Zenkai he got was idiotically huge, he was somewhere close to 3m.
Proof being:
Frieza's second form was at around 1M PL.
Piccolo could smack around Frieza's first form, which would have to put him somewhere between 1.5M-2M.
Healed Goku in base form could deflect attacks piccolo couldn't even see. This means he was over 2M, and going by the official numbers 3M is reasonable. Since Frieza's final PL was 120M, 3M means at Kaioken 20x Goku had 60M, enough to match Frieza at 50% power (which happened, exactly). Since super saiyan is 50x, Goku's final SS power would be 150M, enough to smack frieza around.
The big problem was the size of Goku's Zenkai (33 fucking times his previous powerlevel), but the powerlevel itself was more or less correct.
It's silly, but it's consistent, yes, because they were introduced as more powerful characters.
You're mixing up stupidity with consistency.
Can anyone confirm? This would make a lot of sense.
You can call that stupid, I won't disagree. But you're complaining about the writing, not powerlevel consistency. And these same humans built fucking time machines. Human science is ridiculous.
Goku SS3 trashed SS2 Trunks, but Trunks was fighting Black and Zamasu with a new form.