>>150836199

What a bitter old man.

Other urls found in this thread:

desuarchive.org/a/search/text/ngZ0K3lWKRc/type/op/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

...

>have an AI that is self learning and can manipulate models to achieve task
>Miyazaki cries like some triggered SJW baby
He has no idea what he's even looking at. He probably thinks they made it move like that themselves.

this

>A.I. was a mistake

>savage
Kill yourself

T. Asshurt moefag

How the fuck did he not see this coming and why is he being such a bitch about it? Change happens, get over it.

Good, I only participated in one of the previous 6 threads so I was hoping for another.

>we humans are losing faith in ourselves

Don't loose faith, Sup Forums.

JUST

>creating art is glorious
>creating something that creates art is disgusting
this is why japanese don't reproduce

...

>Show him some gross looking zombie shit
>Expect him to look pleased.

...

Not everyone was here yesterday you cocksucker. Some of us have better things to do than lurk a Congolese gravel transportation board every day

when I saw this i realized i agreed with him

for everyone on this thread, this comfort with the supremacy of technology is sort of ingrained for us. when i sat on the computer with my dad when i was all of 5 years old, for him it was a cool capitalist gizmo, for me it was this unquestionably amazing thing that symbolized pure progress.

for anyone who was less enthused - again, technology as this byproduct of capitalism, the tendency to throw ourselves at these things is just bizarre. and now we're making these just... strange things, just because we can. it's not right.

where i agree with miyazaki spiritually is that i do anticipate down the line you're going to see this sort of pop culture theory of 'humans are meant to evolve into machinery/the singularity is inevitable/seele is gonna bring about human instrumentality' actually come to fruition. some people are proud of their history and see themselves as individuals, with an identity, and a duty to their ancestors and to their future descendants, and some of us are post-gender asexuals liberals, actually unknowingly totally under the yolk of capitalism who are probably so apathetic to identity that ascending into some formless communal orb that represents the end of humanity isn't an inherently objectionable idea


t. Sup Forums

I agree with what he said, but fuck that was harsh.

What would you expect by showing an old fashioned traditional man something that looks fucking stupid and gross looking and talk how machines will replace men.

Didn't we already have this thread multiple times? It's just another excuse for retards to shit on CGI, AI, and 2D. Theoretically CGI can make any image imaginable, if it isn't good enough the animators simply aren't trying. AI is also another technology with infinite potential, something that could surpass humanity vastly not just in ability but also creativity. Could the first plane go 3 times the speed of sound or carry thousands of people? No, it was a shitty wooden box with cloth draped around it that could get itself for barely 12 seconds. Some people wouldn't even consider that flight. Did that stop them from making the massive skyships we have today and even going to space? Fuck no. Have faith in human ingenuity. What looks weak, frail, and useless today, will be more powerful than anything we could ever imagine in the future. And remember, a dedicated artist would make a good series no matter what tools, and a shitty artist would still make a shitty series with 2D hand drawn animation. CGI simply gives people more freedom and make sit so that many more people can try their hand at making things. Many more shitty series will be made, but the good series can be even better than the best 2D hand drawn series.

>I feel like we are nearing to the end of times
Same shit. That's why AI is needed. Humanity is degenerating unfortunately.

Then you check the archives, the board is not your fucking facebook feed you humongous newshit

Sup Forums now likes cg because Miyazaki hates it.

to be human is to be more than human, technology IS our tradition.

Pixar pls go

absolutely. but technology is a tool.

previous tools, so like your example, a plane, was made with the intention of enabling man to fly anywhere in the world very quickly and advance our quality of life.

what you're seeing now with technology, robotics, and AI is talk not about enhancing human quality of life, but either "just because," or on an even more extreme viewpoint to actually replace humanity.

miyazaki is disgusted because this strange cgi doesn't advance our quality of life. it doesn't tell a story that increases our human empathy for one another, or inspire creativity, or even have anyone cynically advocating for some positive quality it carries with it.

it's trash

Did none of you faggots actually watch the video? The body was failing around like some stupid Fallout 4 ragdoll. It was actually disgusting.

His anecdote about his friend was odd and out of place, but CG and trying to have robots create art in place of humans is disgusting.

John Lasseter is the worst thing to ever happen to animation.

This.

Why didn't they showed him a cute 2d loli instead.

Yeah, no. I agree it looks like shit. As said though it is a prototype and you shouldn't be praising it but you shouldn't be shitting on it either. It's like "huh, okay keep it up and maybe I'll start caring".

Did YOU watch? It is intentionally made disgusting for zombie videogame.

Humanity has become a tool bases race for a long time. We're at a point where even if something like the earth flooded, we wouldn't evolve. We would just use tools to survive. Technology is part of being human.

Hideo Kojima warned about this

Look at Silcon Valley now, everyone wants to implement the most cutting edge AI to replace almost everything from sales, art, finance, medicine, etc etc. This in turn decreases the population count dramatically, transfers current corrupt government structures of one with bold and unapologetic power that of a dystopian fiction novel, and everyone as a result becoming easier to control while folks at the top become emperors

This isn't good no matter how much you try to meme this as a good thing.

Sounds like my kind of world.

>over 60
>relevant
stay home, jii-san

I live in constant pain and suffer from multiple health issues which can cause severe disabilities and even I'm not that bitter.

Okay, but what if I just want to have a really powerful body without fusing with anybody elses brain? Am I still bad? I don't want to fuse minds with anybody else, but I don't care to cling to the short sighted ideals of my ancestors either. And for the people who do wish to fuse with others, do they not have the right to do so simply because that wasn't the original plan? It is not for others to say what I may do with my life, only what they want to do with theirs. You want to uphold the traditions and morals of your ancestors? Good for you, I'm glad you enjoy them and them worthwhile. But you shouldn't force them onto others.

I don't think people have a duty to live their lives the way their creators wanted simply because they made them. You can't force people to exist and then also expect them to be exactly what you want. I believe people are only responsible for those things they themselves choose responsibility over. I am responsible for the things I do only, not those actions of my parents. I did not choose to do the things they did, or love the things they did. They chose to, and that is their responsibility and duty. Either don't complain when other people don't get something done, or do it yourself.

Then you're stupid.

Coddled Athens boy, in my time we would leave you in the mountains.

He's right you know.

>and now we're making these just... strange things, just because we can. it's not right.
Who are you to say what these people can/can't try to achieve? And for whatever reason?
Also, your last paragraph is nothing but slippery-slope-heavy conspiratory dellusions.
If that was the point, that is extremely short-sighted of him. It's the same nonsense theater and radio people said about cinema and the TV before they became mainstream.
Plus, feeling bad for his disabled friend because of uncanny movement simulated by a computer is a complete over-reaction. Even more so when it was japan and their horror movies that had a huge impact in popularizing uncanny body movements in the media.

No. They decided it would be used to look disgusting after it looked disgusting.

>miyazaki is disgusted because this strange cgi doesn't advance our quality of life. it doesn't tell a story that increases our human empathy for one another, or inspire creativity, or even have anyone cynically advocating for some positive quality it carries with it.
>it's trash
You just say that because it doesn't entertain YOU. The same things you could say about 2D animation if you're going by the logic that something which can't affect the real world in a physical way is trash. But I've seen some CGI movies, series, and short videos that I enjoyed. Toy Story, Final Fantasy Advent Children, and Many mecha series that have CGI mechs. Something isn't bad just because you didn't like it.

He isn't wrong though.

CG more or less killed hand drawn animation in the West, at least in the box office. There are people that have spent their entire lives learning the trade, and then these nerds come along and say "okay, you can put your pencil away granddad, Windows will take it from here".

I bet you still use a dumbphone.

we would use tools to survive/improve our quality of life. we would not create some robot that can breathe oxygen underwater 'just because we can' while letting ourselves drown

hopefully not, anyways.

if this is your kind of world you are a globalist. look at what is happening in europe. angela merkel is letting hundreds of thousands into europe because she doesnt identify with german national identity, christian culture, her white heritage... so this dilution of identity is fine with her. she can chastise from above because she is one of these 'overlords' benefiting from automation and universalism. the smoking gun of her (lack of?) ideology is her lack of children. nothing to pass on. no investment in the future

sure. you can do whatever you want. naturalism is a fallacy. i just think my culture, traditions, language, etc. etc. etc. all have value and these ideas are worth preservation. if you want to hit up the human instrumentality project.. go ahead, but i am going to find it disgusting. you're touching on another idea here: there's a difference between tolerance and acceptance. people must tolerate each other and indeed our legal systems dont really allow for us to do otherwise

but asking miyazaki to not shit on this, or even more ludicrously asking me to say 'hey yeah you're a furry post-female trans tetrasexual birdman identity is just a construct' is asking me to -accept- that ideology. these are two different levels of acknowledging reality and you have no right to ask for the latter

i was specifically going after this idea "we made this AI zombie that represents a technological advance in CGI just because we can" and not just dissing CGI in general. i enjoy cgi and i think anyone would agree toy story is a good movie..


but having said that now that you bring this up i dont think cgi will ever hold a candle to traditional animation

Okay but why the fuck do some people hate CG so much? I'm not saying that there haven't been bad uses of CG, but I really don't mind it that much. I'd prefer 2D in some cases, but in other cases I think CG does a better job. It's just fucking blind to say CG isn't a better tool to use when making over the top fight scenes.

Sup Forums is in the house

Those who are powerless like me will lay back, crack open a beer, and watch lives be ruined in the process.

I hope one day to kick every one of those idiots in the balls but I doubt I'll be able to so I'm just going to watch the world destroy itself.

Because they're bitter hand drawn animators mad that their job is not secure anymore, it's no different from taxi drivers bitching about Uber.

>CG fights are better than 2D fights

What kind of fights are you referencing to make this statement, user?

You fucking luddite, i bet you were the kind of person who wanted faster horses instead of automobiles.

>Actual art is comparable to technological advances purely for the sake of convenience and efficiency
Careful, your stupid might leak and infect someone here.

No you fucking retard. I just didn't want them to shoot every horse because somebody invented a horse with wheels.

>miyazaki is disgusted because this strange cgi doesn't advance our quality of life. it doesn't tell a story that increases our human empathy for one another, or inspire creativity, or even have anyone cynically advocating for some positive quality it carries with it.
>or inspire creativity
Unnatural movements have been a staple in japanese horror for decades. It works well because it elicits an uncanny feeling on the audience when they see something they are all (presumed) to have behave so differently and strangely. It creates a strange feeling of having something that looks really human, but is clearly not, conveyed not even just by the reactions of the characters, but by the people watching themselves.
Through that angle, as AI is still not able to perfectly simulate human thought, it is kind of a neat idea to use that incompleteness to have it take a human body and have it behave completely different.

i think a good comparison here is pick some random symphony... here let's say any one shostakovich's symphony, and compare it to john cage's 4'33"

i like both pieces of art, both are sort of historically removed, which spares me from going full Sup Forums in here.

4'33" is clever. it doesn't speak to the human soul, but it brings up really interesting questions about what music is. i've always compared it to holding the function key at a computer startup and letting the OS do those self-tests to make sure everything's still ok. music 'testing' music. the best thing you could say about it is it might've inspired someone to walk away and make a piece of music that considered its questions in it


whereas with a shostakovich you can sit there for hours and admire the duplicity of praising/criticizing the soviet regime, was he secretly admitting he was gay in a song(???), its quotations of traditional russian folk songs...
i think you can see where which thing is which in this comparison. going back to 4'33" is a footnote. going back to shostakovich's symphonies is life-affirming.

but now imagine 4'33" was a gateway to replacing conductors with machine generated music that has the same impact as shostakovich? people are gonna be upset

> we would not create some robot that can breathe oxygen underwater 'just because we can' while letting ourselves drown
It is called research, we can't predict all the ways a new tech can be used and you're just being silly when you say we will not use it for our own benefit when it is apparent it can be used.

>if this is your kind of world you are a globalist
I agree with you on the problems you identify there but I don't think going back to traditionalism is the solution. We should keep moving forward, just in a slightly different direction. Instead of global hegemony we need global federalism with strong and diverse individual states free to govern themselves as they see fit.

> i just think my culture, traditions, language, etc. etc. etc. all have value and these ideas are worth preservation
Certainly progress and conservatism are both necessary. We try new things and we keep the things that work, but sometimes we try something that works better than the old thing that also works so we replace it. Not to go full Sup Forums but obviously we shouldn't replace western culture with islamic culture, but we should keep improving western culture.

The world will stop revolving around Silicon Valley long before that happens, VC money isn't going to exist forever.

>watch your creative medium be completely taken over by otakus and waifufags
>the actual substance of storytelling and compelling characters is replaced with lolicon waifufaggotry and "male" Kpop star protagonists
>get completely triggered when you get lumped in with this garbage
>realize the the industry will never change so long as otaku culture remains in japan
>Recent headline: Otaku NEET virgins are causing the population of japan to go into freefall, they just want to fap to waifus and play dating sims
>develop a strong hatred of younger people over time, since they are now all indoctrinated into this garbage via popular japanese culture
>become very vocal about how japanese people have lost their ability to wonder and dream, and dedicate the rest of your career to setting an example of what actual animation and storytelling is supposed to be
>animewasamistake.mov
>some college students who idolize you invite you to see their new innovative project in animation
>go in with low expectations
>be shown them fucking around with the neural network and not producing anything worthwhile
>chew them out for wasting everyone's time
>"we want to teach a computer to draw like a human"
>be completely horrified at the fact that these kids want to mass-produce your art with computers
>assume they will program them to pander to waifufag otakus for that sweet, sweet yen profit
>realize you are staring into the abyss while these dipshit college students are wondering why you're being so mean
>storm the fuck out never looking back, and resume your mission to save animation
He is truly the hero Japan needs.

>but asking miyazaki to not shit on this, or even more ludicrously asking me to say 'hey yeah you're a furry post-female trans tetrasexual birdman identity is just a construct' is asking me to -accept- that ideology. these are two different levels of acknowledging reality and you have no right to ask for the latter
Yes, and I wouldn't ask you to. I think speech isn't free enough as it is, I wish for total freedom of speech. But at the same time you have no right to ask that I not become whatever the fuck that is you just said.

I myself find collective consciousness distasteful, what I want is a body that is vastly improved. I would see no point in existence if I was not my own free mind. But I wouldn't stop people from becoming a collective consciousness. I also can't understand why someone would be overly bothered because of how someone else chose to live their life. Unless they are using physical force to make me join them, I don't really care enough about it to be upset by it. I'm not saying you don't have the right to dislike it, don't get me wrong, but I'd like to know why you dislike it so much. You value your own freedom, do you not think they deserve theirs? Just wondering, because Sup Forums and other people similar to them, including many liberals, seem to really hate people who are different from them.

Then don't support CG, in doing so you're creating a market for alternatives. Doesn't mean everyone else is obliged to be as anal retentive as you are.

CG will eventually look the same or even better than hand drawn animation.

Fuck off you fucking naive child. The market is determined by the producers and everybody fucking knows it. People will buy whatever gets the most exposure not whatever is best.

>VC money isn't going to exist forever

Not user you mentioned. Why is that?

I can't see that as long as Silicon Valley continues providing technology. VC will continue to try to fund them as the potential of profits can be skyrocket. Until Silicon Valley doesn't bring any sort of confidence to any investor then nothing is stopping them.

Fact.

>everybody knows it

argumentum ad populum

i don't disagree with anything you've said, actually. i just try to argue for where i think miyazaki came from with his statement it's disgusting.

i personally think, for example, everyone involved in transformers movies should be round up and shot and killed without a trial. these movies are ridiculously expensive and impart absolutely no social value.

i believe in free speech and hate censorship but my exception that proves the rule is that i think someone in the us government should be answerable that so much money can be spent in the name of something like that and impart no value whatsoever. i realize i am basically advocating for a ministry of propaganda and countering my own belief but i cant think of any other answer on how to draw a line on the millions of billions of dollars - and even more critically, time - spent making these films. at the same time, the money and time watching them. you have a de facto captive movie audience and you're not telling them anything. you're not trying to. you're just making undrawable robots blow shit up and make bathroom jokes. someone should be shot.

at the same time i am for spending money to go to the moon / go to mars because i do think the offshoot technological advances are critical. also a nihilistic belief the planet is fucked and rather than spend money on carbon taxes and electric cars let's start on a plan b to get a move off this rock

i'm getting away from animation now though.

i personally believe machine generated animation is inferior to hand drawn animation. i can list off myriad benefits of AI and machine animation but these guys give themselves away when they say "no reason"/"just because." when miyazaki accuses them of losing faith in humanity he is dead-on

>eventually
When? Do we kill off hand-drawn animation now or we'll wait a couple of months?

That's not what an argumentum ad populum is you buzzword parroting shit. If I had said "this is this because everybody says so" it would have been a different story. I'm done talking to you, fucking pseudo-intellectual.

This is the fourth thread, you fucking mong
desuarchive.org/a/search/text/ngZ0K3lWKRc/type/op/

>i'm a petulant child with nothing else to say

Just like multivitamins will replace Michelin star chefs, right?

I found 3 in the archive and couldn't find the one I posted in, so this is at the very least the 5th.

>food analogy

>i personally think, for example, everyone involved in transformers movies should be round up and shot and killed without a trial. these movies are ridiculously expensive and impart absolutely no social value.
You sound like some kind of collectivist commie. If I have the resources to make something, and I want to make it, fuck you I'm going to make it.

This, holy shit, why are you showing this to Miyazaki? You had to see this coming. Have you ever even seen what Miyazaki makes? What posessed you to do this?

For Miyazaki's part, he overreacted, true. What these kids are doing counts as a creative process just as much as what Miyazaki does, even though it's not really as good, or finely trained as his stuff. They enjoy what they're doing, and to even show it off at all demonstrates that they at least think it's pretty cool. For Miyazaki to say that it reflects badly on humankind in general or that it even threatens his kind of art at all is completely overblown. I mean, tastes differ. Understanding that is, as Miyazaki would probably agree with-- part of the fundamental human experience. I mean, any modern horror movie uses stuff like that. Some of that stuff is just as inspiring and brilliant as anything he ever put out-- the Alien movies for example.

I don't really blame Miyazaki though. He's been head of a studio for 30 years, and a creative professional for what, 20 years before that? He's used to making creative decisions day in and day out. He has a finely toned taste and has disciplined himself to assert it as strongly as possible because his projects rely on him to keep them cohesive and on schedule. His position is completely understandable.

Basically, the major failure of this video is whichever person set up this meeting. I wonder if someone intentionally set those kids up for a dressing down-- that shit apparently happens all the time in Japan.

>Miyazaki disgusted because he has a friend who is disabled.

That is just ignorant, I wonder how he feels about Silent Hill. This kind of technology could be used to tell a story that has a lot of depth and emotion and he just writes it off because it reminds him of his friend.


Cmon old man.


As for machines replacing humans there is no use complaining about that because humanity is already far gone. I wonder why we are at the "end of days" now because machines are more common in society but we werent when people had slaves, Japan murdered and raped chinese children, and America dropped two nukes on Japan.

I think Miyazaki is just another old man who hates change. I still love his work, much like I still enjoy Watchmen and The Killing Joke even thought Alan Moore is fucking insufferable.

Is this the new shitposting general?

like i said, it's my exception that proves the rule. i dont care how much i advocate for free speech and liberty, i cannot justify the time and money spent on those films.

> the tendency to throw ourselves at these things is just bizarre. and now we're making these just... strange things, just because we can. it's not right.
This thought here is, to put it bluntly, a 100% incorrect statement that goes against everything we humans are. Why do you think that Humans were the only Great Apes to survive its contemporaries like Neanderthals? Because Humans took stupid risks like sailing toward the infinite blue seas, leaving the safe hunting grounds for promises of 'maybe's. Doing things just because we can is quite literally why we're here still.
To express a refusal of this driving nature to innovate, to take roads no one has, is literally going against your own humanity.

That one actually applies though.

Sure

At least in the eyes of the general populace.
Chances are, we either get a generation raised in it or someone makes a huge breakthrough.
But there will always be people dissatisfied with the way the media is going mostly the old guard that will keep pushing that the new stuff has no value or could never compare to the old/current.
The same old guard that forgets that to this day, there are cinephiles in academia that don't give much thought to animation or masters of theater that don't give a thought to movies in general

What the fuck are we discussing anyway? Hayao is discontent about using AI in the animation industry, mainly because of shitty presentation, and y'all going full futurism.

It's surprising to me how many technologically inept retards there are in this thread

Nobody makes this kind of stuff "just because they can" or to "replace" anybody.
As they said themselves they wanted to further human imagination by making a program that think differently form a normal person.
AI has SO MUCH potential and i think that's what's scary to Miyazaki, he can't comprehend what its use would be and therefor just think it's made to hurt his fefes and take over the world.

Also that whole speach he gave about his friend was such an asspull. What relevance did that have to AI somehow being able to be used in the anime industry at some point?

Shit like this legit makes me angry.

When stop liking what i don't like meme will stop

...

i cant wait for the next 5 yearly miyazaki retirement movies

old man should just pack it up really.

...

(You)

Those guys should've shown him something more thought-provoking, and not just wriggling corpse. It's like presenting the invention of the Internet with some memes from 9gag.

i mean i go fast on the highway because i can but that's about $80 for a full tank of gas and maybe $300 if i get pulled over

we left the hunting fields because we thought our current ones were getting crowded and someone thought the other ones were abundant as fuck

humans crossed the seas for god, queen, and country. we lost faith in the first one, overthrew the second one, and now are told it's racist to believe in the third one.

"because we can" used to be a cute way of summing up a complex set of beliefs in a few syllables. along the way it lost the complex scaffolding behind it and now it's just an empty statement that gives away our collective nihilism

Not to mention it triggered his memory of his friend's disease.

SV can't provide tech forever, eventually both investors and consumers will lose confidence as startups continue to bite off more than they can chew and never turn a profit. The big companies will stick around in order to maintain what already exists, but your average agile startup isn't going to make it.

Glad we're in agreement. Now let's stop pretending CGshit can in any way compare to hand drawn anime.

Does this friend even really exist?

Okay

You can't lose something you never had to begin with, senpai.

Great, thanks user.

As much as i think Miyazaki is in the wrong here this is so true.

Who in the fuck goes up to some big name company and shows a (ONE ((1))) prototye of a wiggeling corpse and expects them to be expects by it?
They didn't even fucking try