If America finally sets itself free from the MAD doctrine by developing a global net of missile shields that would...

If America finally sets itself free from the MAD doctrine by developing a global net of missile shields that would decrease risk of nuclear retaliation to almost zero, do you think that 140 mln of Russians will be annihilated the next day? Nuking China would be counterproductive because it would bring a huge shock to the worlds economies, but nuking Russia would enable the USA to use its devastated territory to install military bases afterwards and contain China from both: land and sea.

Other urls found in this thread:

dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/662369/Russia-War-Missile-Hypersonic-Zircon-Vladimir-Putin-Warship-China-US-Test-Cruise
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Mad scares large countries out of direct action and encourages proxy wars which favour Jewish influence.
Therefore America will never do it.

Why wouldn't the US want to do it if it could? Proxy wars are pain in the ass and risk of escalation. Besides they are pointless in the case if you can destroy your main opponent in a direct way.

1. They do not need nukes to destroy "Russian" Federation. They'll just get anything they want from the ruling traitors in exchange for a suburb house in USA for every general and minister.

2. Their shield would hardly stop even North Korean nukes.

3. These shields are used for their internal corruption and as cheap excuses for straining their power, where they place their bases.

Get ready, proxy.

Ah yes, that wouldn't cause tension.

Proxy wars allow you to manipulate or contribute easily without being publically involved.
And just rolling over people tends to annoy the international community/general public.
If you ask random people in the street, how many of them would know about the US influence on the situation in the Ukraine?
If the US went boots on the ground and started smashing the rebels how many people do you think would support that?

your implication by using parenthesis. "Russian"

explain chmo

>2. Their shield would hardly stop even North Korean nukes.

They try to make a lot of steps ahead. SM-3 Block IIB interceptors designed to catch modern MIRVs. Newly developed IAMD like IBCS. Using laser-beam to intercept missiles. They are going straight in this direction. Their strategic goal is neutralisation of nuclear arsenals of their opponents.

you wish
dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/662369/Russia-War-Missile-Hypersonic-Zircon-Vladimir-Putin-Warship-China-US-Test-Cruise

Russia is info-buzzing a lot about various non-existent wunderwaffes to present itself as stronger than it is in reality.

If the US did have a perfect missile shield we would have to act quickly as it would likely be our very last opportunity to change major global borders using the tactics of war. Once someone figured out how to bypass the shield, the major powers go back to MAD stalemate. We get one chance to end the evil threat Russians pose to the world. We could liberate Eastern Europe from the brutality of Russian tyranny. We could correct the mistake we made at the end of WW2 by not marching immediately on Moscow. The last time we made the mistake of not destroying Moscow, tens of millions of people died at the hands of Soviet oppression and the Eastern Bloc was doomed to a century of stagnation. We can't make that mistake again.

THERE WILL NEVER BE A TRUE MISSILE SHIELD BUT WE WILL SPEND TRILLIONS BUILDING ONE #MAGA

Russia tells the world about fake wonder weapons to appear strong. America hides its super weapons so no one knows about them. That's what you do with real super weapons. It's the Art of War. When you are weak, you pretend to be strong. When you are strong, you hide that strength.

Yes, everytime Europeans met shitskins when they were colonising they only threatened them with guns because they were secretly weak.

If the US develops a missile shield, Poland will be split between Russia and Germany again. Why? Because the US can't use its nuclear weapons if the US itself is not threatened in its existence. Poland is antagonistic towards Russia and the Nato border is a source of contention with Russia. Therefore as soon as Russia has a real reason to suspect a coming Nato strike, it will be necessary for western countries to placate Russia. Easiest way for that is to improve relaions with Russia, by them becoming western Europes direct neighbors.

Nobody cares about the Poles.

No, russians have the Satan 2 ICBM. Under MAD, everything dies

Very different scenario when you are facing a primitive culture. The Art of War is about opponents of nearly equal technological level. If you are facing primitive tribes you can just scare them into surrender with your magic boom sticks.

You're dumb as fuck. Poland is NATO. US can legally fire nukes at anyone who threatens another NATO nation. The US, unlike Europe, does care about Poland because they are more strategically important to our Russian containment policy than Germany is.

So you guys dream about repeating the Ribbentrop-Molotov scenario even in the eve of the nuclear judgement day? You are fucking sick.

The point of a wonder-weapon is barely to use it retard. Do you understand how world-shattering it would be if the USA came out and said
>We have a device that perfectly protects out whole country from Nuclear strike
then proved that it works? While nobody else has such a thing?

Do you understand how world-shattering the nuke was when they were launched on Japan?
US is little baby country because they used their nukes to make Japan surrender.

This isn't even to mention how hard it is to keep things secret, the point of an ace up your sleeve is using it in the most effective way possible, not letting it sit in your sleeve forever. The longer you sit hiding on a wonder weapon the more likely it is other countries will find out about it or develop their own.

Russia is not America's enemy.
We're just two of the biggest bully's on the planet who like waving our dicks around.

Very dumb post. The point of a secret weapon is to keep it secret for when you need it. You don't announce it and give your enemy time to figure out how to stop it. That would be dumb as fuck. We didn't just tell the Soviets we had the SR71. We didn't tell them about the U2 until they managed to shoot one down it was top secret. The only reason we revealed the nuke was to end the war sooner. If it wasn't necessary we would have kept it secret until we needed it as a surprise for the next enemy.

>Poland is NATO
Nato is a way to threaten other nations into not attacking. Admitting Poland into Nato was an opportunistic move to grab a satellite state of the Soviet Union after the collapse.
>US can legally fire nukes at anyone who threatens another NATO nation.
Oh, you can fire the nukes. But if the US itself is not threatened in its very existence then using large amounts of nukes will end your nation as a global player.
>Russian containment policy
If the US proceeds development of missile defense to such a point that Russia can no longer threaten the West in a realistic fashion, then Russia will need to do something before the missile shield is operational. Otherwise Russia becomes a cornered animal. Because if it goes to war before Russian nukes are neutered, then US nukes won't fly either.

No, but Russia is a major power. It's way more important to Europe than Poland. A major source of contention between western Europe and Russia is the US strategy of containment. Removing that would stop Russia from being existentially threatened by perfect US missile defense.

You didn't pay attention did you?
Keep it secret until it is worthwhile to reveal it, do not keep it secret for practically ever because
>Hurrr durr revealing shit makes you weak
Showing strength has a strategic purpose, do you think Russia reveals literally all of it's military programs and has nothing hidden away?

And the longer you hide something the more likely it is to be found out, then your enemies will start countering it without you knowing and your reveal is more likely to be a disaster.

>It's way more important to Europe than Poland.

Even middleeastern refugees are more important to you than Poland. Hell, they are worth more than gold.

>The point of a secret weapon is to keep it secret for when you need it. You don't announce it and give your enemy time to figure out how to stop it.
So you want the enemy to see that you're dumping billions of dollars into a black project related to ballistic missile defense, but you don't want them to know what that system is capable of?

That's a good way to get an arms race.

Of course that's why Poland is important. And it's why it will continue to be important until Russia is gone. Also who cares if Russia's feelings are hurt? They aren't important. They are a falling power that is quickly becoming irrelevant. This is good for the world and good for the rest of Eastern Europe.

Let's make this simple and look at two scenarios. Scenario one is where we have stupid people in charge who announce that we have a perfect shield. Obviously the first thing Russia does is fortify the borders and prepare for an invasion. Now the invasion is harder. Dumb move.

Scenario two is where we have smart people in charge. Russia doesn't know about the shield. They think invasion is impossible. They are unprepared. We strike fast and take Moscow. We win. Smart move.

Never let your enemy know what you are capable of.

Apart from some good cuisine, illegaly hired caregivers and cheap prostitutes Poland offers nothing to Europe, man.
The resources that are flowing from Russia however are vital.

What would you choose? A hypothetical Nato member Belarussia or Russia as a partner?

Dude, the money is just being stolen. Get it through your thick skull. If there was any work done for real, you would see lots of grants to the academia. This is just a major money grab by people who loot MIC funds. We have no shield and nobody does anything but selling bullshit to the willing buyers in the government. We are Soviet tier the way our corruption with anything government is now.

>Scenario one is where we have stupid people in charge who announce that we have a perfect shield. Obviously the first thing Russia does is fortify the borders and prepare for an invasion.
No, they immediately start looking for countermeasures and create a similar system themselves. By letting them know that you have the system, you allow them to work against it. This gives them a feeling of safety.

>Russia doesn't know about the shield. They think invasion is impossible.
They discover the Manhattan Project size program going on in Nevada, connect some dots, assume that their missiles are going to be worthless, and attack before you can finish the system. Game over.

>Russia prepares for invasion
HA HA HA HA HA
You're retarded.

Having a perfect shield allows the USA to nuke indiscriminatly without fear of nuclear retaliation, that's the number one reason you don't nuke people, because other people will nuke you.
If other people nuking you is no longer a risk then you could easily use your nukes as a large threat to get people to do what they want

>Scenario 1, USA tells people
Everyone interacting with the USA now knows that if the USA decides to nuke them they are fucked.

>Scenario 2, USA tells no-one
Everyone acts under MAD and thinks that if the USA did nuke them they can just nuke back, meaning the USA won't actually nuke them but may threaten to do so.

Scenario 1 gives the US so much more leverage. People will develop their own or findout eventually.

Another dumb move. If we just nuke Russia we make it uninhabitable and we get criticized. Why do it when we can just easily march to Moscow and take it for ourselves? That's what the missile shield would allow us to do. Russia's whole strategy is based on nuclear deterrent which we can take away.

>who cares if Russia's feelings are hurt?
Russia.
We're discussing the possible nuclear holocaust of Russia once the US neutralises the threat of Russian nuclear missiles.

If such a system were to go live in the foreseeable future, Russias best interest would be to have a war when Russian missiles would still deter the US from using their nuclear arms.

Since western Europe is not willing to go to real war over Poland or any other nation the US uses to contain Russia, the result would be political concessions to Russia. An end of containment and a place for Russia as such an important trade partner that an offensive war would no longer be an option for the West.

Polands use is in containing Russia. Once that's no longer necessary, Poland becomes expendable. Russias value as a trade partner and its industrial capacity far outweighs Polands value as an economy.

Holy fuck your stupidity astounds me.
The point isn't to actual nuke them, it's to make everyone understand you could indiscriminently so you can force their hand in negotiations.
You're the faggot talking about the art of war and you don't even understand
>The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.

>Apart from some good cuisine, illegaly hired caregivers and cheap prostitutes Poland offers nothing to Europe, man.

Polish-German annual trade : 110 bln dollar
Russian-German annual trade: 40 bln dollar

That's a simple math. You can import gas and oil from the Middle East or the USA as well.

>conceding to the weaker party
No wonder Europe is so cucked. You're all weaklings. Russia is weaker than you. There is no reason to concede anything to them.

Dumb as hell. No one cares about negotiating with Russians they can't be trusted. The only sure way for victory is to block them in with a shield and march on Moscow. End of the Russian problem forever. Concessions and negotiations only buy Russia more time to fuck around and keep stabbing everyone in the back like always. Half measures don't ever work.

>Blabs on about Art of War
>Doesn't understand a fucking word of the thing
Burger Education.

>wants to be weak and negotiate with liars and traitors
Failure. You haven't studied Russian history. They don't respect talks or negotiations. They take that as a sign of weakness and inaction. It makes them feel bold and they will move against you in other ways. Russians understand only one thing, absolute power and a boot on the back of their necks. You don't talk like a pussy and hope they'll behave because they won't.

>Russia is weaker than you.
Perfect for trade in our favour.
>There is no reason to concede anything to them.
There is no reason for Europe to contain Russia. As you yourself stated, Russia is weaker than Europe. But Russia is flush in all kinds of natural resources. Poland has nothing to offer apart from clay with which to contain Russia. Antagonising Russia is primarily a US interest. Europe and especially Germany would be better served to befriend Russia.

The US can be very glad that Germany is cucked and ruled by corrupt politicians following Washington. What do you think would the situation for US interests look like in eastern Europe if Germany were a strong ally to Russia instead of the US?

You sound like a Russian expat. Whiny and punching with facts.

Once we've taken Moscow there is no need to give Russia anything. Those resources belong to us. You talk like a Russian shill.

We can't remove a little Rocket man. We can only attack defenseless countries to appropriate defense spending with the friends of the Congress. There is 0% chance we attack something like Russia. Our foreign policy is to create fake wars to make money looting the budget. We have no shield, and our army is a social program for losers, most of them shitskins. We can't have any serious opponent. The Army is probably afraid to attack the Best Korea, because of casualties that will ensue when apes are unleashed on the Koreans. We haven't spend any money on any science in nearly 30 years. You really can't be that delusional. You can't have new weapons if science is unfunded.

>Studied Russian history
>Doesn't understand balance of power
During the Second World War many countries considered Communism a threat to them, they tended to ally with Fascist powers for protection, while countries that considered the Fascists to be a threat turned to the Allies.
The Allies began supporting the Communists because they were in trouble. But as soon as Fascism stopped being a threat they turned on them.

In the scenario you are projecting that would happen.

The world is only friendly to America while they consider America a protector and because of nukes to a degree, if America performed a mainland invasion of Russia unprovoked then what's to say they won't go after Canada, Mexico or even parts of Europe next?

Russia wouldn't nuke you because it would rather fight the war than get nuked(And good luck with that war by the way, it's going to be hell depending on which direction you invade from.)

If everyone considers you a very real threat to their sovereignty then they will band together or ally with Russia and cut you down. Propogating Russia as the big enemy that everyone needs to be scared of is all that stops them from being scared of you.

And could the US really take the world in a war? The realistic answer is no, and without ludicrous changes internally your people wouldn't support it either.

Life isn't an RTS, man. You need the Russian people to procure those resources. A bunch of american GIs freezing off their balls won't magically enslave Russia. You'd be looking at decades of terror campaigns at the very least.

Aggressively moving into Russia will achieve only one thing. End US hegemony. It will make the US not just look like, but be a tyrant. Tyrants always fall sooner or later. If the US can just enslave Russia, then why should the US not do the same to China, India, Brazil, Europe? US hegemony would last as long as US air and sea superiority would last. It won't for long. Not against the rest of the worlds economy.

>Punching with facts
It's okay if thinking hurts your head.

This is a hypothetical thread about what if we did have a shield. Clearly we don't and that changes our approach to rocketman and Russia.

Foolishness. Canada and Europe and even Mexico know they are safe from America because America has no interest in dominating them with military might. America's interest is in global stability and trade because trade. Countries only fall into trouble with America when they threaten that stability and trade such as NK not allowing any trade, or Russia invading their neighbors in Ukraine or Finland. America has no war plans against China as a result of Chinese communism because China allows trade and promotes regional stability, the mutual goals of America and the rest of the world powers.

The Russian workers would do better under American rule. They'd make more money and have better jobs.

Russia has nothing to offer to Germany. Polish trade with Germany in 2016 was worth 115 bln dollar, and trade with Russia only 40 bln dollar. It is worth of reminding that Poland has 4x smaller population than Russia. If Poland can resign from Russian oil and gas by importing hydrocarbons through LNG from all over the world and through baltic pipe from Norway Germany would be able to do it as well. Russians have no future. Price of hydrocarbons will be low in a long term now due to American shale revolution and energetical development. Russians basically dont have money to buy German products and wont have money in the future. They will pose bigger danger with time because Kremlin will have a big temptation to use the military to conquer and rob other countries while bringing humanitarian and economical disaster to Europe as a whole.

>They know America has no interest in dominating them
That's not how the world works friendo, look at history for once. Whenever one country get's two powerful the rest will band together to reduce it's power, because what stops them being next on the chopping block?
If US invades Russia, how does China know they won't be next?
How does Japan know they won't be annnexed completely?
How does Mexico America won't want to take more of it's territory?
There always needs to be a big threat. The Soviets were that threat, and you've managed to convince everyone that Russia is still that threat, but as soon as you defeat them you become that threat.
Just like the Soviets became it after defeating Germany.

Most of Europe is too stupid to understand how oil gives Russia power of over them. Only Poland was smart enough to free itself from Russian control. Germany is still too stupid to understand the strategies Russia uses to control them. It makes Germany weak and vulnerable to Russian meddling. Russia has a noose around Europe made of oil pipelines.

>The Russian workers would do better under American rule.
How can you be such a cuck to big business that you'd even consider enslaving your nation and culture to a foreign invader? It's true, Americans really are good goys dieing for their kike overlords.

>They'd make more money and have better jobs.
No, they wouldn't. They'd be enslaved to US interests, under military occupation and unable to self govern as a people. You think Wallstreet will fund their unions?

Fool. Look at countries America has controlled. They are all better off. Japan is more powerful, richer and more free. Same with West Germany. We gave them back their freedom. What other conquering nation can say the same? Russia surely can't. If America wanted to expand its territory it could, but that hasn't been an American goal since the end of the Westward expansion.

>Better off
That's irrelevant.
Doesn't matter how "better off" the Germanic tribes might have been under Rome, they considered them a threat and banded together against them.

Confirmed Russia shill. Foreign workers always do better under American control. Ultimately that's what they care more about. Russians would gladly trade their national identity for good jobs and reliable economy which their government can't provide. A national identity is an ideological luxury that doesn't feed your family. Money is an immediate necessity that people need to live.

If Germans cant be a loyal ally of their protector and feeder which is America, they should be destroyed too

Germanic tribes weren't better off under Roman rule. They weren't treated very well at all. Some territories of Rome were treated very well and they missed the Romans when they were gone. Or at least missed the trade and economic wealth that Romans brought.

The Japanese surely resented American troops at first. But most people were just glad to have food and money again after the war time shortages. People prefer security, money and food over nationalistic pride.

>Russia has nothing to offer to Germany.
Apart from all the natural resources and interest in German goods thanks to Russias demanding industries producing those resources.
>Polish trade with Germany in 2016 was worth 115 bln dollar, and trade with Russia only 40 bln dollar.
Ok, but Russia isn't in the EU. Lots of that trade with Poland is small goods and services. We also don't pay Russia via the EU and we don't pay social benefits to Russian citizens. We also haven't been forced by Obongo to sanction Poland for some irrelevant part of Ukraine, i.e. another attempt by the US to contain Russia.
>Russians have no future.
That only means Russia will very much want our friendship.
>Russians basically dont have money to buy German products and wont have money in the future.
The Russian state has and Russias industry too.
>They will pose bigger danger with time because Kremlin will have a big temptation to use the military to conquer and rob other countries
No, there is no danger to Europe if we don't care about Poland.
>bringing humanitarian and economical disaster to Europe as a whole.
Come on, we're on Sup Forums. Germany still has the guys who manned the last border wall around.

You're delusional. By your logic the US should surrender to Norway or Switzerland right now.

Nah. We should join with the Russians and nuke India

we already have that shit.

What a dumb post to waste those digits on. Why would we surrender to a temporary economy like Norway? They have the same problem as any single industry nation like KSA or Russia, when the oil falls in price or goes away, their whole nation is worthless again. Only America has an enduring powerhouse of a diverse economy that will keep going.

Shoo Poland, you were only brought back as part of trying to gimp Germany and Austria.

Rome barely pushed across the Rhine, and the Gauls attempted an uprising when they realized that Rome was planning on annexing them.

>Only America has an enduring powerhouse of a diverse economy that will keep going.
You know that Russia has way more resources than just gas and oil, right?
In any case, US economy isn't looking so peachy for large parts of your people. What was it that gave Trump the Rust Belt, the economy? Or the fact that many of you have to work two jobs to get by?

In any case, even if people behave like in your Ancap fantasy of rational market actors and orient solely by monetary values, that still does not help you in Russia.
That effect would only come into play if the US manages to actually increase living standard of the Russian people. Which is not going to happen in a conquered, enslaved nation.

Our economy is tapped out. We could lever up our economy before 2008. At this point leverage does very little, so we resort to financial repression. You know what a financial repression is? It's a soft default. Instead of a hard default, you convince creditors to get paid in devalued currency in the future. That's what QE's and suppressed interest rates are. That's not an economy to be proud of. It doesn't go Argentina yet because foreign creditors recognize benefits of selling to us in exchange of relatively small losses on the interest rates and the currency. But that's an economy on life support. I don't think anyone in the right mind wants to emulate what we have now. It remains to be seen if we can even come out of this. And taxes are very high considering there is nothing for the taxpayers from paying full service level of taxes. Education is shit, healthcare is shit, pensions are entitlements with 50% tax rate, it's a hard sell. The population maybe forced to accept the shitty deal, but this has no fan base from the countries not in the sphere of influence. Sell to us, sure, but it's not as good a deal anymore with the requirement to fund our government at low rates and high burn rate of the USD. We are an empire in decline now. People chose to be delusional and believe that the Russians want that shit emulated to buy more time to piss off more money on "military" and social programs to placate the poor that grow poorer and stupider. Why would any country want to replicate that experiment now?

Like a bang up job we did in Iraq. I wonder what the Iraqis think of the liberators now.