Ukraine and Belarus

Why do these meme non-countries even exist?
What's the historical reason for their creation?
Is there literally any reason they shouldn't be partitioned between Poland and Russia?
> Inb4 geopolitical buffer state

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Why can't Amerifats into national self determination?
The countries have their own identity, ethnicity, language and culture (although more in Ukraine and less in Belarus because of soviet russification)

most americans literally dont comprehend the concept of a nation

thats why all their right wing groups are about race and skin color and not nation

every european country has a bigger/older history than murica
the real question should be why are muricans so hypocritical

>Why do these meme non-countries even exist?

Ukraine was fabricated by Jewish communists to subvert the Tsars, and Belarus was the area left over after the borders of the surrounding nations were finalized.

>Why do these meme non-countries even exist?
T. A citizen of the world's largest meme non-country.

Лeнин пocлe oктябpьcкoй peвoлюции coздaл Укpaинcкyю CCP и Бeлopyccкyю CCP, вoт oни и пoявилиcь, дo тoгo были лишь гeoгpaфичecкими тepминaми импepии.

To keep the churkas away from Europe.

you're speaking English because of said meme non-country. You wouldn't be a country if you didn't have Spurdo or Nokia

thats job of romania and poland.

i translate

Lenin after oktober revolution created ukrainian SSR and belarusian SSR, thahts how they emerged, before that they existed as geographical terms in the russian empire.

>Why do these meme non-countries even exist?
>What's the historical reason for their creation?
>Is there literally any reason they shouldn't be partitioned between Poland and Russia?


Commies

Thanks for the explanation, I kind of remembered it vaguely but couldn't remember the exact circumstances.

They are basically russians, but without cultural heritage of russians.

Its pretty funny coming from someone who's whole cultural heritage comes from the Kievan Rus

Don't more Ukrainians and Belarussians unironically speak Russian their Ukrainian/Belarussian?
Weren't they created as Soviet territories which were part of Russia before the USSR?

>but without cultural heritage of russians.
So they are not Russians.

ruski tsar taken Baltic tribal clay, killed off natives in revenge for 16'th century near take over of Moscow - Guthones (latin)- named it province of white Russia - Belo'Russ
Through imperial rule it has been utter shit tier hell hole, through commie rule it has become degenerate cronie nation, current overlord is the last European despot ruler King Jung Ill moon tier (pootin is non European, emperor tier for ruskiLand)

Ukraine is Kievan Rus clay, self proclaimed, past non belonging to nobody tribal area, that used to be populated by many peoples, notably Khazars, Slaves (slaves) and nomadic Cossacks, Tatars, nearly wiped out by Mongol Golden Horde, saved by Lithuanians and handed over to "new polak rule" only to be oppressed by jewish overlords... taken over by Muscowites (after injection of mongol blood, those where fairly savage current day Russians. As a nation it is still fully controlled by either jews and polaks, ruskis have spite against them, due to their ancestral roots being shit tier.
Pitty on both nations, as in their genetic make up they could cleanse up and could potentially be white people, but lack mental and social ability not to be khazar-nomad slave type

Did you mean Novgorod Rus?

>Don't more Ukrainians and Belarussians unironically speak Russian their Ukrainian/Belarussian?
Don't commiefornians speak more Spanish, say thanks to commies for flooding the countries with non-ethnic populations.
>Weren't they created as Soviet territories which were part of Russia before the USSR?
They were, but just to maintain malorussia bufferzone and use them as client states.

Well, not really, Germany is quite recent creation for example, more recent than America actually. But I know what do you mean.

BTW. I wonder if in common German mind sometimes appear a thought about breaking the Federation.

>Did you mean Novgorod Rus?
Kriivs=/=Russians.

Fuck off fifth columnist retard

What is the historical reason for America's existence? How much self-awareness do you actually have? At least Ukraine and Belarus are homogenous nations with a national language, you are a mongrel nation from all over Europe, Africa and South America.

I think you can make the argument the Ukraine doesn't actually exist now.

Belarus is a product of ww1. It was formed in the areas that the german army took during the war. Made an independent republic which was soon conquered by the soviets. Belarusian Rada is the oldest government in exile.

Rightful Lithuanian clay.
G-g-gib.

All the East Slavic tribes in the frame of the melting pot of Rus became Russian.

>Belarus is a product of ww1.
It is like saying that Portugal exists because of Brazil.

>Rada
It's Ukr.

>Inb4 geopolitical buffer state

But it is geopolitical buffer state. Russia doesn't want NATO at it's borders and we don't want Russia at our borders so we we even give Ukraine money to not collapse and Russia gives cheap resourses to Belarus so regime can be stable xD

it a war to let many russians inside poland and then EU hidden as ukrainian. lots of spies.

>Ukraine was fabricated by Jewish communists to subvert the Tsars
Jewish communists shoahed Ukrainians

The thing you have to get through your thick head is that the language you speak is not at all important to your national identity, at least in EEurope. Most of people living in Ukraine speak Ukrainian at home, but most of them also know Russian.

In Belarus most speak Russian because they didn't resist the institutional russification during Soviet times. But there's a revival of Belorussian happening and Lukashenka encourages people to use Belorussian.

As for their creation, the Supreme Soviet didn't consist of Russians/Jews only, there were many high ranking communists who were Ukrainian, Belorussian, etc, and who lobbied for the creation of separate republics for their people.

>Latfag talking about who is/not Russian.
KYS slavfag

>East Slavic tribes in the frame of the melting pot of Rus became Russian.
>Ethnogenesis of multiple tribes that makes a united nation.
Kinda, Kriivs were probably remnants of Finno-Ugric Kolma culture though. So Novgorod was probably a Finno-Ugric town with slav slaves.

as far as i know there is a movement in bavaria for independence

Why Russian diaspora is so shit?
Just why?

Post happa girls and Great Leader Nazarbayev.

>spending time to educating Amerilards
Someone give this man a medal.

Chicken shit doesn't become chicken salad just because it leaves the hen house.

That's right, completely different tribes have become one nation, because there is no evidence that during the time after knyaz Oleg in the territory of Russia there was a different slavic nation besides the Russians.

>based leaf
-10 cuck points from your life Maplenigger.

>Rightful Lithuanian clay.
>G-g-gib.
no user,
you lost some of it to ruskis, given some away willingly in betrayal with polaks (jews) of own natives... you dont deserve it

Do you have dialects, I mean Ethnic white Russian dialects, or all of them got cucked because of USSR?

Belarus is older than Moscow/Muscovy

Belarus is Russia but with some Polish shit mixed in.
Ukraine is Russia but with Russian, Polish, and Romanian shit mixed in.
Both are unique in their own way.
Oh, and don't talk shit about Ukraine.

>Is there literally any reason they shouldn't be partitioned between Poland and Russia?
i mean if you really want nato-russia war then no

In England, too, there are dialects, but we do not say that there is a Yorkshire nation based on the Yorkshire dialect.

>still thinking crymeariver bongs to ukraine
Cry more, you fuckless faggot

It's ever so exciting to learn more of my country's history, culture and inner state from Sup Forums.
You guys are experts on everything.

if Moscow is capital it dosent means that its oldest town in a country.

>you dont deserve it
No user.
You lost Britain to jews, given away in betrayal with Americans of own natives... you don't deserve it.

It's okay to speak English

>You guys are experts on everything.
You are welcome, we are always right.
So tell us does belarus have rights to exist?

>happa girls
who it is ?

well you have to admit a lot of belarusians don't really have a national identity or claim that they're russians

You can also post a photo of your toe, and you will get ancestral analysis better than 23andme, you will be surprised by results. Sup Forums delivers.

Heт, мeня вce ycтpaивaeт, нe хoчy гoвopить нa aнглийcкoм.

>who it is ?
1/2 whiteruu + 1/2 Asianuu

spierdalaj liściu zajebany

>Heт, мeня вce ycтpaивaeт, нe хoчy гoвopить нa aнглийcкoм.
It will be ok, Ivan. Just try it.
/cafe/chan and /Russ/chan aren't the only places.
go on.

was there an independent belarus before ww1? it was only a part of russia since the late 18th century. As far as anyone can tell it's a recently established country. Linguistically it's an older people but the country itself not so old.

>Maplenigger
Fuck that's awesome

Long term status quo is always justified in geopolitics, because it means that there is a strong case for it to exist.
So yes Belarus has the right to exist, even if it's independant state is slightly more shaky than yours.

Not really. I'm telling you that most Belarusians do not consider themselves to be Russsians.
We are close culturaly indeed, but there are certain distinctions which are very apperent if you know both countries good enough

wrong

Slavic diasporafaggs in general are pure cancer acting all uppity and nationalistic while they left their shithole. As an albanian diaspora I don't give a flying fuck about defending fellow albanian criminals, I wouldn't mix with those people in albania, I won't mix with them here. I also see no point in defending muh Kosovo is historical albanian clay, or Macedonia or whatever. Kosovo won, it's theirs, Macedonia albanians got btfo, too bad for them. Yet all serbians or fyromians or whatever diaspora faggs screech about how great their country and history is, how Kosovo war was a holy war for Christ to remove kebab while not only they didn't take part in it, but they wouldn't if another war breaks in, because they prefer playing FIFA and having iPhones in Germany, Switzerland or Canada instead. Either you love your country so much that you're willing to live in a mud hut with no toilets rather than leaving, or you leave, shut the fuck up and identify as a person of the adoption country that gave you everything. National pride should remain personal, you lose the ability to feel pride about a country you left, this is why Irish or Italian pride parades in the USA are cringy af as well. Going to another country, leeching of the achievements people there accomplished and remain nationalistic about your origins country is Jewish tier of being a rat. (Expect a gorillion butthurt Serbs and fyromians replying)

>but there are certain distinctions which are very apperent if you know both countries good enough
You handstand instead of squatting when drinking vodka?

He, бpaт, cocи хyй, мeня вce ycтpaивaeт и ничeгo мeнять я нe coбиpaюcь.

>As an albanian diaspora
A literal muslim shitskin traitor of all europeans. Both you and bosniaks deserve to be exterminated.

here Nazarbayev
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Well, to be fair when they come to your country they see niggers everywhere so they say "Welp, I see there is no culture here, let's bring my own then".

Because we can.

Thnx.
Remember nazarbayev is great or police.

Hello Mykola.

Serb here.
Absolutely agree. Nationalistic diaspora is pure cancer.

you just agreed with an albanian.
What are you doing?

>Long term status quo is always justified in geopolitics, because it means that there is a strong case for it to exist
Yeah, yeah, you were a good student in rhetorics classes great, now national reasons.
I've debated plenty of you guys IRL, just don't use quoting and Pathos. Give me facts plz.

> Latvian, Estonian, Lithuanian, even British and French fags ragging on a massive diaspora from their backwood villages
> implying they've done anything to brag about, like being responsible for 30% of Microsoft's code

slavs assimilate a thousand times better than any non-whites in the west. the west euros could learn a thing or two about pride, duty, and ancestral bearing from them if you ever survive being colonized by islam

Ukraine is a German invention, born as the eastern front of WW1 drew to a close, as part of Mitteleuropa project (in short: to make Central and Eastern Europe as divided as possible, so it's German playground). Ukraine is serving two purposes: undermining Russia and undermining Poland. It's evidenced as their nationalists were always, anti-russian, anti-polish and pro-german.
Belarus is similar case, although unlike in Ukraine, German efforts largely failed and most of what little nationalism they have is centered about "We wuz Dukes of Lithuania n shieet", at least from what i can tell. As such it doesn't have any hatred for Russians or Poles and can be allowed to continue to act independently as they are mostly harmless.

Don't take it so hard, debating on Sup Forums can never be serious.
I just don't think your "rights to exist" is a well define term.
I think the fact that it exists justifies itself, and if we agree to disagree then so be it.

Kievan Rus have never existed. There was one Rus. Kievan Rus it is just concept by cossack retard Hrushevsky

Atheist. Catholic family. Get fucked.
Being a patrician man, not an edgy teen like all you larping faggots. I'll defend France any day of the week if someone calls them surrendermonkeys, if you insult albania I might still think you're a flaming faggot who lives in a worse shithole full of inbred gypsies, yet I will leave it to albanians who live there to do it. I have nothing to defend since I left, you aren't supposed to be jealous and protect the honour of a woman you divorced.

Soviet russification wtf are you talking? Belarussia and Ukraine were communist protects. Heres quote from fucking Stalin to Bulgarian communist where together with Yugoslavia another made up nationality was made Macedonia. Communist did lot of things to weaken Russian nationalism and Russia inside Soviet Union. Because any serious threath to communist rule was Russia itself and its nationalism rising.

i meant the country/duchy/kingdom of Muscovy

Lithuania and Poland only got its hand into these territories when Mongol invasion weakened Russian principalities and plunged them chaos. Lithuanians used this opportunity to do huge landgrab ínto east. Which would have collapsed even earlier back to Russian control if not later backed up by Poland and Russian time of Troubles.

Its hard to maybe baltics to admit but you guys and any nationalist movements you had werent never real threath to communist rule in union. Even last days of union one order from right people and you would have been crushed at early 1990s.

They have their language, army, land and people who don't wan't to be neither polish nor russian. Why shouldn't they have their own countries you retarded vatnik?

>They have their language
How about 99.9999% of Ukrainians and Belarusians are fluent in Russian language?

Belarussia does not have any of those and Ukraine with generous thinking only half.

Because they were occupied for a long time and forced to? Also if they are fluent in a second language doesn't mean that they must be ruled by another country.

Belorussians have their own language (similar to Russian though). They were russified with extreme for a very long time. They were a very important part of Lithuanian Grand Duchy and together with Ukrainians they had their own autonomy and freedom and those parts of Lithuania Grand Duchy are now Belarus and Ukraine as an independent countires and that's fine.

Correction.
A huge landgrab of mongol controlled lands.

And before they fell into Lithuanian and later polish controll they were Russian principalities. When all Russian principalities fell into chaos after Mongol invasion. Lithuania did huge land grap into western most of them. Them having lots of local autonomy was not because Lithunians were super nice. But because Lithuania did not have power and force to revoke local power of Russian princes there.

Mongols never settles Russian principalities in east or west. They used tributary/vassal system.

Their language is also similar to Polish. I'm working with them and can understand most of it.

этo

Stop talking shit to fool westeners who dont speak slavic languages. Its close to polish just as russian is close to it. I worked shitload at old Soviet Union and later Russia/Belarussia and know language. Also worked at Czech republic.

They're geopolitical buffer states dipshit.

Belorussia used to be a grand dutchy once. It deserves independence and something more up north
Ukraine is a mistake and should be corrected asap

In Ukraine, a few cities were populated by Russian migrants to do the heavy industry jobs, but no, they don't speak Russian outside of the East. Ukrainian is actually farther away from Russian in terms of their vocabulary than Bulgarian is.