Has digital animation made hand-drawn anime obsolete?

Has digital animation made hand-drawn anime obsolete?

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What side of the discussion is that example supposed to back up?

Could hand-drawn anime produce such a quality scene?

No it's just made animation cheaper to make which is the goal for anime now since it can no longer stand on it's own and needs to be tailored to other media in order to sustain itself. Anything other than every cost cutting measure in the book would ruin the industry financially.

No, good director will use everything that made his workflow efficient.

With cels, yeah.

Oh god, that looks so bad. Sun and Moon has been looking okay for the most part though.

It's been obsolete since the 00's, get over yourself.

>

Digital animation is still hand drawn.

>implying you need digital for such a cheap trick

Also for the retards calling previous SM episodes QUALITY, 7 is the first one to be actual QUALITY.

This.

Implying. Why draw when you can rotoscope 3d

most anime are still hand drawn then scanned
but no it hasn't replaced certain things from cel

Are you implying that digital isn't hand drawn?

see Shaft "animation" >compose a scene in 3d editor
>then just "draw" lineart over shapes and color
Does it still count as "hand" drawn?

I don't get why 3D animation like this looks so shitty.

Like, any modern 3D video game cutscene looks 100% better than this. Does it cost more to make a video game cutscene than to animate something like ?

Why not just make a show out of video game cutscene type graphics?

Didn't they fix this in the blu-ray.

CG is generally used because its faster, rather than cheaper. You probably already know that time is the most important resource in an anime production and they have to rush these episodes out.
I wouldn't be surprised if they hired bottom of the barrel CG artists as well.

>any modern 3D video game cutscene looks 100% better than this
Your typical MMD video made by some guy on the internet is animated better than that
The people who work on it aren't skilled and have very little personal reason to try to make it look good.

Oh yeah, good point. Come to think of it a game dev has like 2 years dev time to make a couple hours or so of cutscenes.

yo what the fuck is this?

What is that walk trying to convey?

No lineart was drawn over those 3d renders. That's straight up 3D animation. It's not rotoscoped.

Can't you layer cells for the same effect.

...

MP100 used not just hand-drawn, but hand-painted animation for some scenes. Non-digital animation is pretty obsolete just because it's not nearly as convenient, but it still exists.

Also I wouldn't say digital animation isn't hand-drawn unless it's CG, it's just hand-drawn on a graphics tablet. Most anime is still mostly hand-drawn.

youtube.com/watch?v=TOfr40OVtZA

They still use their hands, silly user.

Rotation Battle

why did they even bother

>digital animation isn't hand-drawn, computers magically draw everything
>nostalgiafags actually believe this

>I don't get why 3D animation like this looks so shitty.
It doesn't if you know what you're doing.

Such a QUALITY scene? Yes.

Are you trying to imply that all modern anime is made like this or looks this horrible? Or maybe that traditional animation never used rotoscoping? Or that rotoscoping always looks bad or somehow "doesn't count"? Even Disney pulled that shit.

looks like shit

>Pikachu is freeze but they can't even pull out a non-QUALITY face
wew

There is literally nothing you can do with hand drawn that you cannot do with digital

>Muh line thickness/strokes
There's a setting for that
>Muh shitty backgrounds
You can draw backgrounds digitally
>Muh grain
If you like artifacts in your video you're fucking stupid but you can add it digitally too
>Muh 3D
3D can look good with enough time, hardwork, and effort just like hand drawn

The people who grew up with Satoshi/Ash are adults now. What is the purpose of still using fucking Satoshi/Ash as the protagonist?

All the spin-offs have much more interesting and fresher protagonists that actually makes sense given how each new generation of Pokemon also introduces a vastly different setting.

Cels were the peak of Japanese animation.

/thread

B-BUT MUH WARMTH

Cels were the mistake of Japanese animation.

The first shot kind of works but the second looks ridiculous because Ash seems too close to the pokemon for the effect so it's like they're on a sliding bit of earth.

They should have just set the camera right on the floor so they wouldn't have to bother with this sliding ground bullshit. Then they could just have the parallax effect on the characters and it'd look fine.

Shaft did nothing wrong

You don't need to know how to draw to animate cgi that's why most if them look like shit and they don't hire people who can draw either for some reason.
Miyazaki was right, they are trying to make real animation absolete.

Also, I think the second shot fails entirely because Persian isn't moving to the left as fast as it should appear to be, especially when it's that close and walking to the left.

>How come a large team who work on a few cutscenes for an entire video game development cycle can make better 3D animation than 3 Elevens in a basement who have to pump out works in less than a week?
Huh good question the world may never know

>go from Soul Eater's sweet, sweet fight scenes
>to this
It hurts my soul. Bones, you're better than this.

...

>Soul eater
>Sweet fight scenes
It had like two good fights. The very first one and Death's serious face

>words just appear after she does some random scribbles over a piece of paper

what show is this?

>thinking grain is an artifact
wew
Grain is a factor of analogue film. Faster film has less grain but needs to be exposed for longer. Slower film has more grain and needs less exposure. Fucking children born in the digital age know fuck all about analogue technology

Hey, come on. Even when the animation itself isn't spectacular, they're well choreographed.

What's wrong with cels?

How does that make it not an artifact?

>artifact
>any feature that is not naturally present but is a product of an extrinsic agent, method, or the like
>Grain is a factor of analogue film.

The same thing that's wrong with digital.

Bubuki Buranki. My favourite show from the /m/ side of thing I have seen in ages.

Bubuki Buranki or BBK/BRNK as it's also called.

Cels are better though.

Don't you have this backwards?
The finer the grain, the less sensitive it is.
Slower film has finer grain and the exposure needs to be long, hence "slower film"
Faster film has larger, more noticeable film, and is workable at quick exposures, hence "faster film".

Film grain is a consequence of the silver halide used to make the film. It's not an artifact because it is not an error. It's a characteristic of film. Poor choice of film for aperture and lighting can create excessive film grain, it then becomes noise. Grain is an intrinsic part of analogue film.

...

>Faster film has larger, more noticeable film
*more noticeable grain

That definition of artefact did not use the word error. In fact all you did was restate that definition in different terms to act like you have some kind of point.

Is this a western character design? Almost threw up when I saw it's face, spoiler that shit next time.

Western character designs are amazing though.

2D can 3D better than 3D can 2D???

...

Maybe if you like ugly characters. A western character design in an ''anime'' style never works. Even outside of that most western designs are just plain ugly as fuck

Furshit western characters are way better designed than eastern furry ones desu

The only benefit CEL has is the grain. Digital trumps it in literally every other way. Color, cost, you name it. Hell, back then they did everything they could to remove the grain.
70s animation (and audio) has a nice aesthetic though.

No

this is true, to the point that anything more furry than the usual monstergirl stuff in japan is starting to look just like western stuff

I do. Guess I need to back using film and a dark room for a while.

My point is that film grain is not an artifact.

i fucking love tanaka
one of the best animator's in japan

>Quality

Mh-hm

>Western character designs are amazing though

The anime industry basically has no mentors who are good at CG. When it CG was starting to blossom in Japan it was all at game studios like SE and FROM. Anime studios just pick up interns straight out of college and teach them nothing and put them to work.

People really seem to understate the importance of mentors. The lack of teachers in the IS why animation is basically dead here, the greats died or retiring without teaching the next generation and now it's garbage. People can get good by just studying on their own but the greats are almost always mentored by someone with an experience, critical eye that can spot and correct problems that the uninitiated wouldn't spot for years, maybe never.

Art has benefited greatly from knowledge being passed on directly from teacher to student but it seems it's not happening as much anymore. Even CG suffers from this as companies are just turning to 3D scanners and mocap to capture real-world objects and motion rather than having an artist come up with them (though artists still do hands on tuning, but it's becoming more of a technical job)

The furry ones are great.

I guess VHS effects aren't artifacts either because it's how the original animators intended it to be viewed

It's literally not true. Eastern furshit at least looks cute. Western furshit is literal abominations that look like the stuff of nightmares. Eastern furshit is passable, western furshit is for madmen in the making

Tell that to this guy Seems he flipped out at the sight of lips.
Probably thinks Katsuya Terada is western too

It doesn't matter how the animation is created, digital, hand drawn, cel, whatever.

You have have shit versions of them and good versions of them. It's all based around what the budget is, the quality of the animators and the time given.

>My point is that film grain is not an artifact.
You haven't stated why. At best you explained why it happens (and you were even partially wrong)

Grain is a side effect of the process. It has to occur but that doesn't mean they designed film to intentionally be grainy. People only like grain after years of it being present in films. Our eyes do not have grain, there is no reason that a visual medium should intentionally create it.

Animated films had grain because of the cameras they had to be shot on. The drawings and cells didn't have grain on them, the animators and artists didn't intentionally add it. A fully digital pipeline doesn't have any grain. It's a side effect nigga.

you butthurt highschool photographer

B-but grain gives me warm feels

Not true, hand-drawn traditional animation was always excellent. I'll prove it to you, just let me look for my few webms of cherry-picked sakuga moments from old ovas that I have lying around for these threads.

I generally prefer shading and the contrast between light and dark used in 80s anime. I have no idea whether this style isn't possible with digital or artists simply don't like it as I haven't seen it since, but I generally associate it with 80s OVAs and movies so cel animation.

Golden age western furry is fucking amazing though.

3DCG != drawing on a tablet or digital compositing and coloring

Digital = Drawing in photoshop digital pen not a mouse
Cel = Drawing on paper with a regular pen

That style is still possible and does appear from time to time, but usually only as a gag.

making it look good takes effort and adjustments to the tech stack.

Needs motion blurring. It's like 15 FPS, looks like garbage.

I know what you mean. It's still possible, just look at Redline, it's basically a modern 80s OVA in a feature film.

It's just that this style is not popular anymore, it's been replaced by this new style we have. I actually don't know how to describe it but it's a bit more sharp maybe?

If digital animation wasn't a thing and they were still doing traditional animation, artistic tendencies would still have evolved over the decades to use the kind of shading they use now. 80's artstyles had nothing to do with it being cel animation.

I don't recall much furry characters in anime anyway outside a few catgirls that have fully furred skin.

Most is just drawn art

christ that looks amazing

still meh most of the time. something about the shading is off, especially the hair looks too plasticy. and the motion looks stiff at times.

but at least they're improving the technology, I give them that.