Isekai

Is isekai a bad genre, or just one that attracts bad writers?

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>or just one that attracts bad writers?
This, and en-masse.

Both.

light novels attract bad writers

Yes

Isekai doesn't have to be bad, it's an old theme that was done even 100+ years ago (Mark Twain's conneticut yankee in king arthur's court). It's just what's popular now is blatant wish-fulfilment, which is pure trash (pic related).

Kid gets beat up by bullies, goes to magical world where he gets hax powers, and keeps collecting godly abilities while growing a harem. You get rid of all of these, and it's still isekai, just nothing like what's out there now.

There's no bad genres, only bad writers and overused/fad tropes.

Latter.

Isekai's have appeared throughout literature from Alice in Wonderland to the Chronicles of Narnia to the Dreamlands Cycle of HP Lovecraft, this "other world" thing anime as of late is just the same old tired shit that SAO has popularized ala something to do with videogames-esque aesthetics and the most shallow parodies of DnD style fantasy.

>dungeon seeker
probably the worst manga ive read this year

There is never a truly bad genre.
Just Genres that are varying in degrees of how good you need to be to write something good from it.
Isekai's as a concept can be fine but it's just the stigma from Re:Monster and the like make us hate when series recreate things from it and other bad examples, namely the RPG mechanics

And RPG mechanics not even that bad if done right, like it existing solely to check your progress/status/levels or for comedy purpose. Konosuba and Danmachi for example.

It also attracts bad critics

Complete the blank:

>I was just a normal High School student until I die and was reborn in a fantasy world as a ______

Futa Centaur

best comedy I read this year

ant.

You think that's bad? Then you haven't read Gunota yet. It's an isekai where an airsoft-otaku (they exist) gets transported into generic fantasy-land and teaches a dog-girl how to use guns.

>airsoft-otaku
I thought he was military otaku, hence knowledge about many kind of guns and other things. Also, that manga having atrocious art didn't help either.

It's also a good for pinpointing exactly when to drop a series (when stats go up 999+ out of nowhere)

holy fucking shit

>999
novelupdates.com/series/lv999-villager/
It was actually interesting and would be nice if it ended at first volume after which I dropped it.

Marks of a bad Isekai

1. "Skill Collector"
2. A Supposedly weak ability is actually broken
3. RPG like level up mechanics including mysterious narrator telling the MC when they level up/get new skills
4. Exponential harem growth

You all are saying that its not the genre thats bad, but the writers are bad, then give me an example of an isekai that isnt a total fucking thrash which makes you wanna puke while reading it

Bad writers, of course. Some of the greatest science fiction and fantasy stories have been isekai.

Harem is an intrinsically bad genre.

>name novels you like for me to trow shit at them
1/10.

don't forget being "too strong", and having to hide it

What other western ones are there? Thomas Covenant comes to mind.

I like new gate. It's not exactly good writing, but it's pretty comfy.

That one about the Tax clerk chick who gets reincarnated as the antagonist in a Romance Video Game and uses her knowledge of modern society and economics to build up her fief.

I forget what it's called, but she basically is only able to succeed because she understands finance in a pre-industrilization setting and pass ideas off as her own invention.

Like a Yankie in King Arthur's court.

Kumo Desu Ga is pretty good, and uses isekai to make fun of the genre. It also uses good planning, letting the protagonist struggle to win every battle and only get slightly stronger. Winning by planning instead of some godly one hit kill.

There's also no harem or any of the usual bullshit.

It feels like a bunch of nothing to be honest.

The problem is: when the MC is overpowered to the point of ridiculousness in comparison to everyone around him things become dull.

Discworld were the best Fantasy Novels in that regard, even their most powerful characters didn't win by themselves, they failed and fall as much as anyone else. Usually the derpiest characters around them did as much as the main cast to help solve the problems.

It doesn't have to be. The biggest problem of haremshit is that the MC is an average looking beta male who is either oblivious or too flustered by the opposite sex.

Make the MC a handsome alpha male who ends up with an actual harem instead of just one girl from the harem and then the genre is saved.

Escaflowne.

Not that guy but Kumo's not really good. It's less bad than modern average though.

>A Supposedly weak ability is actually broken
Nothing wrong with this.

There's been several good isekai series in the past. Its just that recently it has become the formulaic RPG level up harem fantasy that it is. So yes, it attracts bad writers who cant stop copying each other.

>Even the most powerful characters didn't win by themselves

The Granny Weatherwax of Good Writing

So basically, something like Casanova?

You may be on to something. I guess in the end, it's mindless wish-fulfillment self insert that ruins any genre.

There was no reincarnation trope in Escaflowne, in fact, people on earth were well aware that Hitomi was kidnapped by a magical light beam.

Not on paper, but it's almost always an indicator the writing is shit.

Isekai is not reincarnation. Reincarnation is just a plot device used in modern isekai.

>tfw Sup Forums thinks they can write a better isekai but don't cough up shit
Scared of being wrong don't you fellas?

Dungeon Seeker and Arifureta should be in their own category: edge-sekai. Magical guns with german names, a dagger called godslayer, and getting limbs chopped off while yelling about hating the world. I can almost hear papa roach playing in the background when I look at those panels.

Common Sense of a Duke’s Daughter?

I've really been losing interest in it of late. Characters weren't that interesting.

NPC.

>the NEET otaku's videogame experience gives them an upperhand in shit that the people in the other world have been experiencing their whole life
Fucking hate this shit and all it's variations.

>y-you cant criticise anything unless you can do it better yourself

Come on, guy.

The fact that I can shit doesn't mean I don't recognize a turd when I see it.

John Carter. Chronicles of Narnia.

Spoofs and comedies are actually passable because they recognized the stupid shit the genre builds upon.
Konosuba is another good example.

What are some isekai that doesn't focus on harem hi-jinks or has a female partner that the MC romances.
I'd really like to read an isekai about someones travels or has a group of comrades that don't back stab and isn't after his dick.

Can't deny that. I won't pretend it's well written, but I enjoy it as a slice of life I guess.

It's true, if you can't, then shut the fuck up. Actual ability and idealistic ability are completely different.

Great for you faggot, who gives a shit about what you see, I see the same thing. How about you get off your ass and produce something we don't see everyday?

Gwenpool

Overlord LN is probably my favorite thing to come out of Japan, LN, manga, anime or otherwise, in the past few years
It also reads insanely different than a typical Isekai though and all but drops the game aspects pretty early on

I'd argue a lot of the Isekai that are born out of authors that are legitimate /tg/ players are a mark above the rest, though by no means is that always the case

any genre would be bad if it attracted the kind of people iskai has gravitated to

makes you wonder
what would a sports manga gravitated toward that manga look like?

-1/10

(you)

Overlord is very passable by modern isekai standards. It has some of the same problems, but it's saved by the fact that the crux of the conflict is how Ainz tries to cope and his interaction with his guardians, the conquest and battles are almost a backdrop.

I know!

How about the opposite of isekai?

Shieeet, I think I remember that, they were some kind of sports team too?

Nips really have worked hard to make fantasy hit rock bottom.

Worldbuilding reduced to stock game-like settings with demon king and adventurers' guild.
Exploration of magic and other supernatural powers replaced with levels and MMO mechanics.
Zero to hero journey skipped completely, protagonists now are absurdly overpowered since the very beginning.
Characters - bland and forgettable, usually a fanservice receiver + a bunch of walking tropes with tits.
The whole "transported to other dimension" thing that seems to be mandatory nowadays in most cases isn't even relevant after the first chapter. It's just a self-inserting aid and an excuse to reduce exposition to shameless infodump lectures.
It's all about Japanese NEETs getting a harem of cute girls in another world. And even this part is poorly executed.

I just want a fucking series about a good ol' team of murderhobos doing murderhobo things in a vast, interesting world, with developed characters, entertaining interactions and a wild ride plot.
Rant over. Good knight, Sup Forums.

Yes, I know I'm taking about fantasy, not isekai, but in anime/manga/LNs isekai series are usually set in fantasy worlds, and sadly, more and more fantasy series start with "transported to another world" crap.

Not to mention roughly a third (really approaching a half) of the PoVs are from just regular people living in the world who have no inclination or even suggestion of the whole 'game' aspects

It's worldbuilding is superb, basically

Shit that should have ended on episode 5.

I don't think what you're describing exists, because the isekai genre is way too prone to copying popular tropes from whatever sold best in the past.

You can't even get a (non isekai) adventure series without harem bullshit popping up. Look at Goblin Slayer, for example. Already got 3 girls and it's only been a handful of chapters.

The last vanilla adventure series was a god damn long time ago. I'm talking about Lodoss War, or Slayers.

>more and more
Only that you notice. In fact, there's always more fantasy that isn't isekai. I'm serious, user. Don't be an asshole and be throwing around posts like this.

There's still very decent fantasy out there honestly. Goblin Slayer and New Saga are pretty decent so far, not to mention Dungeon Meshi which is absolutely top tier.

Have you tried goblin slayer? I got some real murderhobo vibes from it, and it shows promise

Reminder that Sup Forums thinks girls means harem.

Boo Boo is about a human from our world and her romance with a pure young orc. It's technically /ss/ when you remember Boo Boo is very young. Plus, humans actively travel back and forth from the human world and the fantasy one. There are some rpg-esque mechanics, but it takes the form of the human magic (naturals to the fantasy world do not have that, and the top fantasy denizens far outclass anything humans could hope to muster.)
Volume 1 was alright, the best part was an army group using organized tactics and crude firearms to defeat people they normally would never stand a chance against. It helps that the series is written by a fairly experienced author instead of some random WN aspirant.

Right. A bunch of cute girls around one male are just waifubait for the audience, not necessarily an harem.

>murderhobos
>good
It's literally the same thing as isekai man.

Goblin Slayer doesn't feel haremy at all though
I don't deny that down the line there's certainly a possibility for it to start bleeding into that, but it really does just feel like it's a party that has three guys and two girls
Even the guild receptionist and cow girl seem grounded, if not just because the MC is so turbo autist and single track minded

It's because they think western fantasy is shit, and treat it like so. Every time there's a katana, it's always the greatest gift from god, folded 1000 times

Probably give a shot at Log Horizon, at least watch the first season.

Since we're talking about isekai, is Dunbine worth watching?

Dungeon Defense is bretty gud.

Dungeon Meshi is amazing. New Saga is okay, but I feel like everyone is overrating Goblin Slayer.

Shield Hero before it wen't harem

They're building up to it, and it's obvious what the archetypes are. There's the childhood friend, the blonde healer who sticks by him no matter what, and this new elf girl who doesn't like him but slowly starts to respect him. Chapters aren't even in double digits yet, and he's collecting girls like yu-gi-oh cards.

By chapter 15, he'll have his helmet off and be revealed as a beta bishounen, while he blushes and pushes all the girls away from him during a beach chapter.

>Japanese series without harem potential
How else are they going to sell their product to smelly otaku

Boo Boo is alright, but my least favorite of the author's work so far.

>one that attracts bad writers?

This, and giving how the LN market have basically no standards of quality, this attract any person trying to make money out of their shitty fanfics.

>romance with a pure young orc
>orc
>pure

You could say any writing market has no standard of quality. It's the dumbest thing to say. You could say the same about money. Everyone wants money. Dumb as hell. Obviously you attract good and bad. What the fuck do you think this world is?

How come it took until the Yamcha isekai for people to consider writing isekais based on preexisting fiction?

Better than making generic RPG fantasy #67.

why are orcs in japanese media pig men?

>why don't you just break copyright?
>who cares right?

Because people like NTR?

Inuyasha

>Konosuba

Aside from the comedy, Konosuba actually is good isekai, Kazuma didnt get a OP power, so he has to work his ass off to live in the new world, he constantly has to learn new stuff about the world and use it somehow, and no everything goes his way always.

>beach chapter.
Dropped

>Boo Boo
>Not pure
You best back the fuck up before I fuck you up mate. Boo Boo's purity is only comparable to Jack, Shota Shinobu, Hayabusa, Illness Magic User and the White Queen.
That list ended up longer than I thought it would.

>didn't get an OP power
You know this is bullshit and so do I.

Get the publisher's permission. Look at Purple Haze Feedback or the Naruto LNs. Even the Yamcha one was on WSJ's website.

Back in the 70s when it was all the rage in english sci/fantasy it was also trash for the most part.

Like, you can make it good or at least okay (take the Dark Tower books for instance) but more often than not it's stuff like Gor, all fetish trash.

Why pig?

>expecting a complete nobody to get permission

yes if u like zeta and/or l-gaim

Sheer popularity is all the quality that japanese publishers care about, and it gets worse knowing that they're sourcing motherfucking web novels that get lots of views.

That's the equivalent of a book series being made from a wish-fulfillment fanfic on livejournal. Last time that happened in the west, we got 50 shades of grey. Besides, look at all those cheap $1 romance novels clogging up walmarts for the past 30 years. Aren't isekai LNs basically the japanese equivalent? Maybe that's their outlet for degeneracy.