Can we discuss Universal basic income...

Can we discuss Universal basic income? The idea of giving everyone a small amount of money (£7000/ $9000) to survive on regardless of wealth or status).

I can see arguments for and against it. The obvious ones against it are that it's essentially socialism-lite.

However given that it tends to be such a small amount of money and that people will continue to earn money through employment under capitalism I can't see how it would remove the incentive of employment. Most people would still want to get a job to earn more money and better themselves. It also seems to remove the incentive to lie about disabilities for benefits and means we can scrap the corrupt and unfair benefit system entirely.

Finally, I can see it being very helpful for young entrepreneurs who will have the opportunity to drive capitalism further and become millionaires thanks to the fact that they can invest more of their time on their projects and businesses without the worry of having to earn enough money to survive.

On the other hand, as mentioned above it is still in many ways a form of socialism and comes with clear risks. Firstly, there are people in society who would rather live on a tiny amount of money than actually get a job and have a better life.

On top of that there is the risk of devaluing real wages by increasing prices due to the new unearned wealth being created. Potentially also leading to dangerous levels of inflation. Along with the likely increase in tax which could hurt the free market economy in the form of increased corporation tax or potentially directly hurt the income of hard working citizens through increased income tax.

I need some strong and qualified arguments either for or against UBI before I make my mind up. Both social and economic arguments please.

Other urls found in this thread:

theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/13/should-we-scrap-benefits-and-pay-everyone-100-a-week-whether-they-work-or-not
unvis.it/theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/13/should-we-scrap-benefits-and-pay-everyone-100-a-week-whether-they-work-or-not
bignam.org/Publications/BIG_Assessment_report_08b.pdf
basicincome.org/news/2016/12/will-basic-income-lower-crime/
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Where will this free money come from?

It would be better system than the one we're currently having, where welfare is tied to huge governmental bureaucracy with overpaid officials pushing pens.

RIP Britain

Now bongs will never work if they can live off government welfare

>Guys, if we make government gibs for everyone people will still want to work because they are so small. surely there isn't a whole segment of the population that is contempt with living on the bare minimum of gibs aslong as they don't have to work
Ask me how i know you're white.

>small amount
>9000$
Motherfucker that is a top of the line paycheck here. I'm talking factory owner shit.

This is a very effective way to control people.

>half of britons
>pakis are "British"

there is already a universal basic income

Zero

I see no reason to adjust it

There is nothing wrong with universal basic income. Money is just worthless paper anyways, and bankers print more of it by the minute and get to spend it before it ever reaches the average Joe. It's time to accept the fact that we live in a post-scarcity society.

Things like this just remind me I need to get my helicopter pilots license.

Yeah whats the fastest way to exchange all my money to not GBP before the hyperinflation and 1000X increase in immigration

USD or JPY preferred,
was planning to emigrate when i had £50k halfway there

money is just paper, but the worth attributed to it is used to exchange real things.

Stagnation after several generations. It will not last.

I am a NEET and want more money to buy chocolate at LIDL.

>On top of that there is the risk of devaluing real wages by increasing prices due to the new unearned wealth being created.

>wealth being CREATED
>socialists actually think printing money and giving it out is creating wealth

>do you want money
>yes
These dumb apes don't even think about where the money comes from.

it's a policy for the future, possibly not now. Automation + ai ensures the average man will eventually have no place in the workforce. Many people are simply not capable of living off creative pursuits, or they aren't in the top percentiles of intelligence to ensure they're still valuable in certain positions. So IMO to say UBI will NEVER work is to say society will likely collapse. As to it's use now, that is risky.

Invest everything in buttcoin

>it tends to be such a small amount of money
I don't know about you, but a vast majority of american spending is on this socialism shit. What you're really talking about is wanting to add more to the pile, but, oh, "its not that much, just give me my fucking money, blimey!"
>finally, I can see it being very helpful for young entrepreneurs
Don't lie, you filthy commie nigger.

This is a giant fucking faggot thread made by a faggot commie socialist OP. Kill them all.

>wanting even more welfare while having open borders
Literally when the FUCK will they learn?

Let's try this in cannada..

Canada has approx 35 million people. X $10000 = 3.5e11 or $3,500,000,000,000 or 3.5 trillion dollars, per annum. Even if you say 30% are not eligible due to not being 18 or whatever the reason, you're still talking about giving out 2 trillion dollars a year. Canada's annual tax revenue issued approx 34 billion all in, and would take 100ish years before we could afford even a single year.

So how's this gonna work?

Capptcha blissed riigh

sign me up asap, ill just go live in thailand, its not as if theyd ever check

You miss the bigger point.

There is already an over-saturation of creative pursuits, most people don't recognize it though because they do not look outside of their metropolitan area. Think about how many bands, writers and comedians actually exist in the world compared to how many you are exposed to.

The scary point about UBI is that in a society where everybody only consumes, what do you do when you run out of physical rather than virtual recreation?

All it takes is a good hard look at the California Bay Area to see the environmental degradation that comes from having even that small of a population looking for shit to do.

Imagine the white baby boom once white people get their gibs

If people are giving money without working for it they will just waste it and still be poor. Then what? Will they be eligible for more?

nobody should get SHIT

and this is coming from someone who doesn't have a pot to piss in

im awaiting the day this will be realized in sweden
that day i will quit being a engineer and start driving a truck, snowplow, or some other seemingly relaxing job

Implement this plan and you will find yourself ruled by a dictator in 20 years.

This plan is essentially going to legalize vote buying thus making the UK a non democracy for all effective purposes just like how the bread dole in Rome made every election about promising more Gibsmedats, but what do I know?

volatility too high :(
we are all fucked anyway.
>theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/13/should-we-scrap-benefits-and-pay-everyone-100-a-week-whether-they-work-or-not
>Swiss will vote in a referendum on a plan that would see all adults receive about £1,700 a month, with an extra £400 for each child.
Mohamed + £400
*Thump*
Abdu + £400
*Thump*
Abdul + £400
*Thump*
Abdul Ahad + £400
*Thump*
Abdul Ali + £400
*Thump*
Abdul Alim + £400
*Thump*
Abdul Azim + £400
*Thump*
Abd al-Aziz + £400
Fazl ur Rahman + £400
*Thump*
Fazlallah+ £400
*Thump*
Fazli+ £400
*Thump*
Fazlul Haq+ £400
*Thump*
Fazlul Karim+ £400
*Thump*
Fikri + £400
*Thump*
Fouzan + £400
*Thump *
Fuad + £400
*Thump*
Furkan + £400

Guess i need to move to a country too poor to do UBI

Remember to archive
unvis.it/theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/13/should-we-scrap-benefits-and-pay-everyone-100-a-week-whether-they-work-or-not

Agreed, the average prole having so much time on his hands is disturbing. I can't think of an alternative to a UBI-esque system in a context of dwindling employment opportunities though.

Even more people will work even less.

I do, even more time spent studying and getting degrees

You're a fucking retard.
Politicians have been doing this since the start of The Senate.

Quid pro quo nigga.

I support basic income.

Because I'm going to short that currency into the ground and become rich.

Are you being serious? Same applies to this, some people aren't suited to it.

Who do you think will administer UBI? UBI would be like welfare on crack. The resulting depression from the loss of self worth would fuel severe drug abuse. UBI is communism for the 21st century.

Genetic engineering, not alloweing to have more than one children unless you are gifted and rich, a plan to diminuish the numbers of all humans on this planet

Kek we're just going full circle back to the days where people had large families to provide for the parents

How are the government going to pay for it? This is not an insignificant amount of money. Do you increase taxes? Because if you do then you're effectively just canceling it out. If you start paying people money for nothing, there's less of an incentive for people to work to get more money.

UBI results in less people working => less money that you can tax => government has even less money to spend on UBI, repeat cycle until UBI is no longer feasible.

>be (((landlord))) with rooms to rent
>everyone makes $9000 at least
>I charge $9000 more annually to rent the same space

this is what will happen

>£7000

That's more than I make currently so I guess i'll just quit my job?

How about this. You get more for having fewer children, until a certain income then it reverses

If theres no scarcity, then its a great idea. Today though, its fucking retarded, as prices of goods will simply rise to accomodate the injection of capital. People might benefit if they spend the money immediately, but otherwise the market will correct itself and we'll be back to the situation as it existed before UBI.

Then we'll need to increase the amount every so often so that people get the same benefit as the currency devalues, until hyperinflation and inevitable collapse.

>Reeeee social security is literally ruining us
>Reeeee we deserve free money because reasons
Leftists have a resounding lack of self awareness

I am for UBI. Why? Because it would severely reduce the amount of bureocracy. That's one bird down.

Then all you need to do is let inflation eat UBI away, year by year. No need to even cut it, as long as the budget is otherwise balanced.

sounds like two tiered slavery, with minorities a slave to working class handouts and working class a slave to handing away all their earned money.
Can't figure out why Europe is in such a hurry to totally enslave themselves to masters they're not evn allowed to know about

It makes more sense to punish people for being poor than giving them free money.

Grow up and get a job

>Americans

Where is this money coming from?

>Establish rent cap to stop greedy landlords
Problem solved

When everybody gets 9000 currency of freshly created money, the currency's echange rate would plummet together with spending power. And a crash can only be prevented if people still work as much as they do now, which is a big IF.

Underrated

old gregs mangina or whatever other terrible comedy the british people find funny.

Just tax the rich, man.

If you don't step on these usurus Jews the whole of the Ubi will be absorbed by rising rents.

not at all,
the providers and breeders are becoming 2 distinct group's of people.
we know we just don't have many options as to fixing it or migrating to a better country,. most have no way of doing either

Not helping =\= punishing
You fucking commie rat

do you know literally nothing about why the politicians will never go through with this?

Politicians pander to people who can GET them things, they have contempt for the electorate and import voters at say the vote all the time

I'm assuming that's 9k/year.
In the US, 9k alone would not be enough to live on if you are living on your own, not even in bumfuck nowhere poverty towns in places like Kentucky and West Virginia. I'm not sure how it fares in the UK, but I imagine the cost of life is higher.

When muslims in my country get angry at their children the call them kinderbijslag. Refering to the money the parent gets for the child meaning that they only had the kid for the money.

They dont raise their kids and just tell them to go outside all day long.

Universal Income lowers crime:

>In fact, research shows that basic income experiments have resulted in increased social cohesion. Studies have shown increased school attendance after the introduction of a basic income-type grant. In Namibia, there was about a 40 percent drop in crime in areas where the basic income was introduced.

bignam.org/Publications/BIG_Assessment_report_08b.pdf

basicincome.org/news/2016/12/will-basic-income-lower-crime/

Increases social cohesion:

>The experience of the BIG pilot suggests that the universal cash grant liberated people and the community from the individually and collectively draining and devastating impact of poverty. Many people living in Otjivero-Omitara said that they had only survived previously by asking and begging for food. This was profoundly embarrassing and undermined their capacity to have normal social interactions and the development of constructive community relations and real community spirit. The payment of the BIG has dramatically changed this. Begging has basically stopped and people reported that they can now visit and speak freely to each other, without the fear of being seen as a potential beggar. Judging from the observations of community members, researchers and members of the BIG Coalition, it would appear that a stronger community spirit developed over the period of the first year of the BIG.

>implying the need to tax the rich
The entire monetary system is a freaking pyramid scheme anyways, just print more money, problem solved. If were lucky the entire system will collapse upon itself that much sooner and we can switch to a more sustainable monetary system within our lifetimes

UBI is a great idea as long as white christian men are excluded from it

>the providers and breeders are becoming 2 distinct group's of people
Is it weird that women only became a financial drain on society once they were given agency?

it's called communism

UBI is just another word for it. Since most of the new arrivals are on welfare anyway, and aren't actually helping the economy as the (((economists))) promised they would, this is seen as the next step.

Can confirm. I'm from Venezuela and we are starving. People don't protest here because the goverment gives us 5$ monthly and without that 'money' we straight up die.

9000 a month? Certainly can't survive on 9000 a year.

The money comes to UBI from adjusting marginal tax rates for an equivalent amount. It need not have any effect outside the very bottom income brackets.

i agree with this knowing it will cause homelessness.

gimme grants will leave due to housing stock being occupied.

UK home's owned by the occupant will be a thing for future generations again

we have pleanty of that here,
My area is 70% Chavs "15% diverse" the rest actually work.
i see immigrants as "reinforcements" to these "people" welfare is cancer.

WE WORK OUR ARSES OFF BECAUSE WE DONT WANT TO LIVE HERE!

If this ever happens I'm quitting my job. No way am I going to finance others lifestyle. I'll make additional money selling stuff on craigslist.

I can see it working on a small scale, but if your population is over 20 mil, this will never work. Also, the basic income should be paid regardless of your employment situation, since a x-amount per month + plus your paycheck is a great motivator to work even at shitty jobs, but x-amount a month that evaporates when you find a job is a great motivator to be a neet.
Also, your country needs to be 90 % nigger/arab/spick free and have a meritocratic immigration policy

Great job Britain now you do not own your property the Government does!

Remember Socialism is the steps towards Communism.

fucking muslims parading as British

Milton Friedman's Negative Income Tax structure is the only way it should ever be done. Most other methods are socialist bullshit.

Learn about inflation, mate

There is actually a current working example of this in practice, in Finland.

No speculation needed.

Thats what every rapist Muhammed is thinking as they immigrate to beautiful EU countries

You mean as opposed to something like Big Bang Theory or American Office?

WHOOOAAAA DUDE

BEING LOUD IN THE OFFICE

YEEEAH FUCK YEAH

FUUUUCK YEAH

PARKOUR

PARKOUR IN MY FACE MUTHAFUCKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

HEY PAM SUCK IT BIH

>topples over some furniture clumsily cause that's funny as fuck, bro

god i hate your people

Free housing
Free electricity
Free food
Free healthcare

now they want free money

FUCK OFF!@

Dumb Americans with no arguments. Fuck off to breitbart.

How does welfare benefit a nation?

I am going straight to the bank to ask questions about keeping my income in a foreign currency.

If my current bank does not offer this service i will be switching to one that does, wish me luck.

getting my pound of flesh and moving to a poor country Christian/Buddhist secular-ish country

you might consider them dumb Americans but at least they are not over run with muslims!

>Where will the money come from/
>How many third world sub humans will it be a magnet to?
>Will it lead to downward pressure on wages ?
>What will it do to prices espc housing
>Sub humans can get upwards of 20k per year by shitting out kids, how do yuo think they'd react to a pay cut ?

How the fuck does it not, I have ready linked to studies that show UBI reduces crime

Dopey Pakistani doesn't understand economics. Sad!

No, its 350bn. Don't know how much you spend on pensions and benefits and other public social expenditures. But it usually doesn't add up.
At some time in the future we might have something resembling a UBI but atm we still need lots and lots of people who work even though we already have automated a shitton away.

>prove a negative you goys

>universal basic income
>demographics of Brazil

PICK ONE AND ONLY ONE

Massive welfare thieves all of them only work cash jobs

Yeah post some sources you mong

...

It reduces crime on paper. Wait till everyone knows you have a thousand pounds coming in each month.

No it was tried in real life

The idea is that right now in many cases, if you are on benefits and get a part time job offer, you lose your benefits and end up making less money. so you don't take the job.

But if everyone gets money regardless of income, you actually can get a shit job and work a little bit and not be a 100% burden on the rest of society.

The brilliant thing about concepts like welfare, and socialism, and communism, and UBI etc.. is the proponents of these policies and ideologies can simply blame the "fascists" and the "greedy" for all failures. This ensure that as these systems become implemented, the ONLY outcome is absolute failure because they will never admit that their own policies and systems have flaws. If they can't admit when they're wrong, they will continue to suffer their failures. There will never be enough money and resources to maintain these systems to a satisfactory level, and in the end it will only result in suffering and or death. Ultimately, UBI is going to be a GIANT shit show. Can't wait to watch it play out and then laugh as leftists scratch their heads and then blame everyone else when things inevitably go wrong.

Not an argument.