>Chinese girl starts work at same place as me
>seems decent even if her English is broken as fuck
>talks nonstop about amazing China is
>mention the word communist or communism to her and she freaks out and screams about how China is not communist
So is she right Sup Forums?
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She's a woman. She's never right about anything.
she is a government plant trying to get people to move to china
Because it is not real communism.
China isn’t communist. They started that way, but somehow managed to make it worse.
No.
Degism is communist ideology.
She might be one of the Chinese who aren't property of the CCCP™.
Most likely Taiwanese, Tibetan, Honk King Ching-chong, etc.
She is right, at least from economic perspective.
The crazy capitalist "not communist" China is really mostly just the coastal provinces, inland China is still commie-style agrarianism.
lel, China is by all means communist. You folks don't know what that means, and neither do most people that live under communism.
Communism means you are ruled by the international communist party. It means they call the shots, not chinese people, the communist party. Right now China is pushing for a chinese style governing communist party. It is communist though. Communism is constantly evolving, hence it's ability to shirk the wrongs of it's past. The statement "that's not real communism" is true, because the communism of yesterday is not the communism of today. Communism is determined by the party.
For a western version of this consider the deomocrats taking credit for the republican party's involvement with civil rights and the abolishment of slavery.
>constantly evolving by adopting capitalistic practices
Kek.
...
>communist party holds power
>communist symbols on flag and in 'parliament' (or whatever they call this joke)
>military belongs to the party, making them communist too
>government that is in power now literally only exists because the communists won the civil war
>somehow this country is not communist
well, if it isnt communist, then what is it?
If China is so great what is she doing here?
>White girls fall for propaganda about evil whitey and poor blackie
>implying chinese girls don't fall for communist propaganda that china numbah wan!
She's a female.
China today is closer to National Socialism than Marxist-Socialism. Regular welfare state, private property, capitalist style economy, one party dictatorship, nearly and ethno-state...
>here
>bong flag
Worry about yourselves
I've become a little disdainful when it comes to mainlanders living abroad, they're surprisingly arrogant even though their entire nation and people are certifiably inferior in just about every aspect
As Communism is an ideology based on lies, you need to understand that the concepts of "Real Communism" and "What Communist Propaganda claims Communism to be" are diametrically opposed things.
When a Communist talks about something not being "Real Communism", he uses newspeak, and requires translation. In plain English, it means that it is "Real Communism", as opposed to "Propaganda Communism".
China is a state capitalist nation that chose to still keep the Communist symbols
>chose
you mean the communist party chose for them?
Ask her about government jobs being for sale, all the way down to street cops. It’s about 30k to become a cop and they do zero work.
>some fucker from X shithole moves to Y nice place
>Spends the entire time in Y nice place telling people they need to turn it into X shithole
you aren't picking up what i'm putting down
communism is just being ruled by the communist party, the economic, social, and all other models are irrelevant as long as the communist party is running things.
China does not have a centrally planned economy any more, it is not communist.
It has a mix of state and business with a one-party system, it is close to Mussolini's definition of fascism.
So it's literally anything any party under the guise of communism states it is?
So communism no longer has any viable definition of political mechanisms or economic policy so long as the party itself is calling itself communist? What a fucking cop out that is, kys faggot.
If you think China is communist you're mentally handicapped and should consider killing yourself
Likely a rich chink family so she wouldn’t have a single fucking clue what her country is like for the majority of the population. Canada is full of chinks just like her. If China is so fucking great why did she leave?
>kys faggot.
Yeah ok, but i'm actually not a communist or socialist. Maybe don't put your bias into how you interpret someone's point in the future. I was just explaining what I experienced when I lived under various communist governments. There are so many scholars that run their mouths about Marx and communism but they never look at it as it has always existed in whatever it's current state was. China is the most communist country we have right now, to the bone. Anyone that has spent a significant amount of time there and actually dealt with the government first hand knows this. Beijing has a balancing act. Communism can actually allow for more autonomy for diverse populations than the USA does right now, btw. They do this by not demanding diversity but still appeasing the minorities in their country by giving them social and economic perks. Right now there aren't really many local Beijing folks in the Chinese government, they mostly come from rural areas. The scholars and college courses are just there to make the upper middle class kids think they call the shots, but they don't.
The biggest mistake our education system made was not giving us an authentic look at the Communist party and figuring out how to deal with it. It's not my thing, but at the same time I realize it isn't what I was told it was when I was young.
I doubt I would even be eligible for party membership if I wanted to be.
China was full communist for a while then they ended the famine and adopted the capitalist practice of growing and selling crops instead of trading children for food. Now they harvest organs from political prisoners but overall living standards are improving for the average person so they're only partially communist.
>china is so amazing that I choose not to live there
Opinion discarded.
I'm not saying you are, I'm saying you're retarded if you think self definition is what makes an ideology instead of tangible practices and a set defined criteria of policy.
North Korea calls itself Democratic, does that make it so?
Look up Socialism with Chinese Characteristics, it's the reforms by Deng that changed China into a modern technocratic capitalist state. It's the reason most of its politicians are engineers and trained on subjects such as economic matters and building structures.
They are not communist just because they say they are.
They, facing mass starvation, poverty, and the inability to industrialize effectively with centralized control by commie bureaucrats, were forced to allow markets to take effect. However, the communist party is still in control of literally everything that they want to be in control of. There is still mass censorship. They literally only outsource to the market out of necessity. They recognize the inherent weakness of their governing principles yet still do not wish to relinquish powers. Nobody ever does.
Fake story
My ex is Chinese, she said it is communist but in reality very capitalistic as well. A government system is rarely pure, even the USA has some communist and socialist structure
>I'm saying you're retarded if you think self definition is what makes an ideology instead of tangible practices and a set defined criteria of policy.
Communism is always self defined, you are dense if you haven't picked up on it yet. The Communist Party is a chameleon and if you try to make it static you will never understand it. If you consider yourself a communist or socialist and you don't understand this, then good luck.
>They are not communist just because they say they are.
Correct, but they don't just say they are. They are literally part of THE Communist party, which is an international political party. It's a well thought out process that changes with the times. The overall idea is that conflict is avoide
Most communists that hate the Chinese do so because the Chinese are currently calling the shots and determining what communism is and what the communist party does. This pisses off the europeans that disagree. They see this as a chinese problem, not a communist problem. They refuse to acknowledge this Chinese version of communism,because it's not the direction they want to see the party move. It's like bernie vs hillary, both the same party with differing views.
>North Korea calls itself Democratic, does that make it so?
If North Korea were the only country in the world calling itself Democratic, then I would say it's a good example of what Democracy looks like in practice.
Communism fucking sucks
When will it end?
No communism is a socialist economic model set on making all means of production under state control and leading the populace to a classless and stateless society. And it fails every single time. And China realized this and opened their markets to free commerce and private ownership.
Again, you said they are part of the communist party therefore they are communist. Is North Korea Democratic because they call themselves the Democratic Republic of North Korea? Just because that's what they say they are doesn't mean they are, they don't follow any of the tenets of communism and therefore aren't communist. They're generally closer to Fascist than communist by all measurable policy.
Communist party in China just regained control again sooooooo, she's a fucking retard
Ask her if China is NatSoc
It already has, every communist country has made economic market reforms to more free trade and open markets or has rebranded their ideology as something other than communism (Juche in NK for example, socialism with chinese characteristics in China is another).
Communism and socialism as an active practice is largely dead, any state trying to do it is laughed at by the world at large.
I don't get what you're saying, if you're implying China is the only self proclaimed communist nation then it isn't. Vietnam, Cuba, Laos stil self identify as communist, with each one having taken some level of market reforms that include opening private ownership of MOP.
Not as communist as the uk, but it's getting there.
>No communism is a socialist economic model set on making all means of production under state control and leading the populace to a classless and stateless society.
Nice book definition, but it's wrong. It doesn't reflect reality, it's not what communism and the communist party is. Look at reality instead of reading definitions straight from a book.
>Is North Korea Democratic because they call themselves the Democratic Republic of North Korea?
You don't seem to be getting it at all, fuck man, you are probably book smart but you are hopeless when it comes to reading between the lines.
There is a party, this party gets to define what communism is. If that party decides they want to change the definition of "democratic" then they can, because they make all the decisions that they want to make. So in the USA, N Korea is not democratic, but in N Korea, N Korea is democratic.
I actually don't know how connected N Korea is the communist party at this point though. I don't think that information is even readily available to the public.
Why do edgy manchildren on the internet defend it then
Yeah China and a few other shitty third world countries. That wasn't the point of my analogy. Let me rephrase if you're that intent on being a sneaky dishonest communist about it.
>If North Korea and a few other awful countries were the only countries in the world calling themselves Democratic, then I would say they're good examples of what Democracy looks like in practice.
aesthetic
They desocialized certain markets out of necessity. They were literally starving their people, so they had to desocialize certain aspects. They retain an iron grip on whatever industry they can feasibly keep their hands on without causing obvious economic mayhem. This does not mean they don't desire control of everything. They just came to the realization that there would be more resources at their disposal if they didn't try to socialize literally everything. Maybe you should take a page out of their book?
Yes China is literally larping as commies, it has very loose regulation on corporations
i feel if a country has over a billion people, the more people that are there the less value they have.
they're all minions only existing to serve the state.
>you can't define ideology based off the ideological tenets that define it
Then communism is literally anything anyone says it is? Is that what you're saying? Or is it the practice led by the tenets of Marxism and other branching ideas? Because if it's the former then communism has no meaning as a ideology as a whole.
>in the USA NK isn't democratic, in NK they are
No technically the US isn't a full democracy ether, we are a Republic. North Korea doesn't allow free elections from differing parties that disagree with central policy, therefore not a democracy. You saying any nation can self define what their ideology is and therefore it is throws out all meaning in every definition of political terminology.
By your logic KJU could come out and proclaim NK a libertarian state and poof it is one. That level of faggotry thinking is like saying I can claim myself a dog or woman if I feel like it, just by self defining myself instead of needing objective meanings to words.
Because they have nothing else to do to feel important. They use ideology of communism to feel important, the revolution being the revenge they feel towards society for not giving them everything they want, the class violence gives them the reasoning to hate the world because they know the world generally has little care to them for being abject failures. A lot of ideologies are like that, communism in particular.
Ok I understand you better, and no we had the majority of the world in the 50's under communism and it failed completely by the end of the century. I think we have a lot of historical examples, including current, of what communism and socialism does. Which is fail in the longrun, no matter how you others try to reframe it.
I'm not denying that what they're doing is effective, I'm saying it isn't socialism. They have an oligarchy now and the party has trouble reigning them in, if anything they render as a technocratic capitalist state or fascist before socialist or communist.
>commodity production for exchange
>wage labor
>communist
Han Chinese are about as unscrupulous as your average Ashkenazim. They abandoned Marxism before Mao had passed away. Using state funds to go out whoring and gambling overseas is a time honored tradition, cultural touchstone even. Political opportunists all the way down. Social services are maintained because much like Racial Affirmation and Welfare in the United States it does a good job of keeping the tax base nice and complacent. To say that they're communist for merely retaining the old regime's Leninist pastiche is silly.
Yes and no. No because it is communist, yes because she’s a woman.
>Offers it's citizens as slave labor for international capitalism to thrive. I don't think Uncle Adolf would've been too happy with that one...
China is in a mixed state presently. It still has over 150,000 state-owned companies, the majority of the top 500 industrial and service companies are state-owned, 110 Chinese state-owned companies are in the Fortune Global 500, and China's dozen largest companies are owned by the state.
>You'll have a hard time finding anything to this extent in capitalist states where state ownership, when it exists, is onesey twosey.
Though there are 8 small political parties, these are merely a facade. 'Oh look, we are a multi-party state." The 8 parties form the united front with the CPC, many of their leaders are chose by the CPC or are CPC party members.
The CPC is the only political party that matters, so state ownership is really CPC control. Control extends beyond the political realm where the CPC controls religious organisations.
Where it's not communist is people are allowed to own the means of production, which runs contrary to a major pillar of communism. Of course, they have to run through the gamut of CPC controlled bureaucracy to be capitalists.
>the economic, social, and all other models are irrelevant as long as the communist party is running things.
t. an actual retard
You have it backwards, please never post here again.
>Then communism is literally anything anyone says it is?
No, it is what the highest officials of the party say it is. In theory the highest officials would workers themselves. That isn't even always the case though.
If you want to be really brief, it's just a one party system.
nah fuck you, you obviously don't have a lot of experience with it. Let me guess, you studied it thoroughly? Your studies mean shit.
Communism is relegated more to a state party rather than an actual rule of law mostly in China
Amerimutts and cuckistanis:
"If x is so great, why did you move here?"
I propose a question to you mutts:
Why did you move to the Americas if you think your European heritage is so great?
Have you tasted her salt and pepper bush yet?
But its not effective. Everyone outside of urban centers (and even some in urban centers) live in abject poverty. Some farmers still use oxen to run plows. Its not effective as many, many aspects of their economy as still socialized. The only industries that have been seriously de-socialized are the manufacturing sector and some portions of agriculture. (Small scale merchants, restaurants, and hospitality businesses have always managed to slip through the cracks) They still have to pay heavy tithes to the government, forcing companies in those sectors to short their workers to remain competitive in foreign markets. You can deflect all you want, they are still commie as shit. They aren't "technocratic capitalist" just because they have a currency. Most communist nations have retained currency throughout the ages. Albania would be a good example of this. Even economies operating under voucher/ration systems evolved a commodity trade using such vouchers in a black market type of way because it is next to impossible to completely remove the idea of trade and exchange between individuals. You are playing the "No True Scotsman" game right now.
>Why did you move to the Americas if you think your European heritage is so great?
>implying we do
Don't be fooled by people like Richard Spencer. I appreciate your culture and have a pretty strong admiration for it, but I would literally die before I changed my passport.
>it's just a one party system
Wow so fascism is communist? National Socialism is communist? Literally any nation with a party system that is regulated to one system of control is communist?
Even one that doesn't support one class, or the working class, or any pillar of communism?
Again, you're retarded and making no sense. Just because someone says they're practicing something doesn't mean they are. Kys.
If this is just bait and shitposting, then 8/10 you got me good.
They still brought the largest amount of people out of poverty in the shortest amount of time than any other nation in history.
It's far FAR better than Maoism.
>>it's just a one party system
>Wow so fascism is communist? National Socialism is communist? Literally any nation with a party system that is regulated to one system of control is communist?
>Even one that doesn't support one class, or the working class, or any pillar of communism?
take a look at the history of communism and tell me i'm wrong.
your definitions are a fucking joke and you are forever going to be running in circles if that's all you have to offer
>why did career criminals and religious zealots settle a depopulated continent in the 17th century
>why did lower caste Europeans and sweatshop workers flee to a huge unsettled landmass during the industrial revolution
>why do chicanos from the northern states flee to Texas
I hope you're a bot, for your own sake.
see
Koreabro gets it. Commies pretending to give freedom but not really. All an illusion to retain power. I'd also imagine a significant amount of bribery is necessary to successfully complete the marathon of approvals required to be a "capitalist".
Depending on if she's PRC Chinese, or RoC/formerHK Chinese, two Chinas.
>China
>ethno state
Not really
Shes a commie bastard mainland locust
>Nationalist Leninism is the only approach to communism
(You)
It's a communist shithole, and chinks needs to be gassed.
>tfw backed out of pursuing some chick because she's real-deal from China Chinese
What if our countries went to war?
I can't be dealing with that shit.
I literally own Marx's collective works, several Stalin and Lenin books and use to be a hardcore Stalinist.
The history of communism implies it's main definitions are; state control of means of production, controlled economy, class oppression and control of the political system by the party.
Not just one party system, otherwise NS Germany was communist, among many other far right anti commie dictatorships.
Koreabro's definition of China is still fitting with a fascist or technocratic state, since both are generally based on mixed economics and a powerful state influence.
This.
Um, no. No they haven't. Poverty is rampant. If you want a job, you have to live in a military style barracks 300 miles away from your family for 11 months out of the year and mail your money back to support them because opportunity is so restricted. Many choose poverty. Also, its easy to take credit for bringing people out of poverty that you created in the first place. Also, you forget the nation you post from right now. Poverty levels shrunk to almost nothing under capitalism, then came the fed, farm subsidies, social engineering, etc which led to the depression. This created poverty. This created more outcry for socialization. This created more poverty, and thats why we are where we are today. The rise out of poverty in both nations happened IN SPITE of socialist policies, not because of them.
China is actually pretty cool in all honestly.
I get your argument because you are obviously leaning heavily to the left. The party typically takes over a country then blames any shortcomings on the inherent culture of the locals and the nationalist remnants in that country. This is because the ultimate goal is to destroy any semblance of rebellion the local culture might offer. So you blame the Chinese for the shortcomings of communism, and clame communism isn't the problem, but the Chinese. What is pissing off most leftists right now is that the Chinese have decided to play off this and incorporate their nationalism into their version of Communism. This is the east hijacking the west's communist party. I for one, love to see it go down. I hope the Chinese can maintain their history and run the party the way they want to. They have had some hard times but right now they are slowly moving towards respecting their people and culture and maintaining control of the party. You should really be careful because a lot of working class westerners will be happy to adopt this model over your bullshit approach.
nah, your books are dumb, they are basically a sales pitch to get you to join the party. that is bachelors degree pleb tier communism, if you knew better you would get what I am saying here.
I'm pro capitalism, since the 80's reforms that allowed more free markets the largest amount of people ever have been brought out of poverty in China. They still have a shitload in poverty, but their reforms helped take over 800 million out of poverty. Still have lots of work to do, and a more open economy could probably help a lot more if anything.
>I used to be a hardcore Stalinist
wew lad good buddy
>China pretty cool
China is nigger tier of the East Asians.
And the books are the writings of the people who created the ideology of communism, I think the self definitions of the actually ideology by its core tenets and those that created them are better ways of defining it than 'only one party state.'
china is fascist lets get real
Almost all of them are like this. Normie Chinese are nationalistic AF.
The only ones who don't like China are exiled in the West or in jail, like Ai WeiWei, Joshua Wong and that businessman in NY that China wants Trump to deport.
Actual commies only managed to take over China after China was weakend by years and years of getting their shit pushed in by the Japanese Empire, and even then they had to fight a big war all over the country for it. After, like, one generation of leadership, the clique of dudes running things realized that actual communism is fucking retarded but that being in power is great. So, China has remained completely authoritarian when it comes to who has ultimate legal power, but the economic policies are not communistic at all. Haven't been for decades. If they were, China would be Zimbabwe-tier poor right now with no real economic growth.
But, yeah,
>arguing with women about politics
My girlfriend is Chinese and she is the same way. She fucking loves China so much, even if she agrees that America is a better place to live. In a way my girlfriend and your coworker are right, China isn't the same communism that they used to be, because they finally realized that communism isn't good for business. Economically, they are full capitalist. Socially, they are still very much communist with a lot of restrictions on what they are allowed to do.
However, I would also like to mention that only the people from the rich areas feel so great about China. My girlfriend's mom started a multimillion dollar business and is super rich, so of course my girlfriend thinks China is great because her mom prospered so much and she grew up in a great home with lots of money and shit. However, if you come from the smaller towns and shit everyone is super poor and fucking hates their lives and it's an absolute shithole.
She is probably trying to conduct industrial espionage on behalf of the PRC. You should alert your supervisor and network administrator to be on the lookout.
>here
>OP is bong
Retard
Everything china does hong kong does better.
Chinese are like Jew, whether they go they are "Chinese" first then X or Y. Jews identify as Jews before American, just as Chinese do too. It is part of their culture and they are conditioned this way. This is why interracial couples is traditionally frowned upon in Chinese communities.
Holy semantics based around the illusory definition of "pure" communism... Whatever. For the sake of argument lets say you are right. This means they abandoned communism because it didn't work. I am still right.
Now, for the sake of my argument, lets break down your points.
>state controls means of production
Just because they are executing communism as closely as is feasibly possible because, after all, it is literally impossible to have a central authority control literally everything (even your brain outsources regulation to peripheral ganglia and the endocrine system) doesn't mean it isn't communism. They control most businesses and run every other business through a gauntlet of approval procedures all overseen by the party. By this definition, true communism is impossible, will never exist in on any significant national scale, and will remain entirely hypothetical.
>controlled economy
They control the economy. Its a fact. Either through subsidies, actual state run companies which are effectively subsidiaries of the party, or various forms of coercion and money manipulation. If you can buy something, its because they let you. Example, gold trade recently became legal in limited quantities. It was super fashionable when it happened.
>Class oppression
Of the upper classes? Honey, not even in the most textbook communist regimes has this ever completely happened. The ruling class just gets smaller and moves from one group to another. Stalin had a palace. Mao had a palace. Kim has a palace. Romanian and Albanian party leaders had palaces. That is the whole reason they played revolutionary to begin with, to get to the palace.
>Control of the political system by the party
As Koreabro said. The party controls everything, including the other parties from the national level all the way on down. If thats not control of the political system, I don't know what is.
You are dodging the bullets. Once again, NTS fallacy.
this
look up deng xiaoping and then come back
Yes, China is socialist atm, and is becoming more capitalist without wanting to admit it.
Everything vagina does ding dong does better.
World bank mostly used Chinese statistics. Surely you don't believe the self-serving communist party wants to portray itself negatively on the global stage, do you? Go to northern China and get back to me on that. Having most of your workforce spending 95% of their days living in shacks with triple bunk beds, shitting in a ditch outside the factory, and having to put mosquito netting around themselves to sleep at night, all to support a family miles away, is something very close to poverty, is it not?
Leninism has it's own shortcomings and no I don't think for a second that the Chinese people ever truly embraced Marxist ideas.
Chinese culture was thrown out the window by the PRC and what remains is maintained for the sake of tourism and perception management. Third and fourth generation diaspora chinks generally don't like the latest wave of immigrants because they're just vapid disrespectful consumerists.
Xi Jinping is a neoliberal. Edgier than Barrack or Merkel, sure, but a neoliberal. There are a lot of neoliberals and politicians in the west that seem to like him and his policy. Media outlets and publications have been pushing the idea of mainland Chinese being some kind of model minority for decades. I don't think that necessarily means that a third way has been synthesized or that westerners are turning red.
She’s right.
China is a fascist country, it hasn’t been communist for decades.
fpbp
>believing a Chinese nationalist when they say that China is full blown capitalist
>anecdotal evidence
gtfo
>this means they abandoned communism because it didn't work
That was my point, they aren't communist.
And the fact they allow ownership of the means of production that is regulated by the state is more fitting with fascism, communism doesn't allow for private enterprise. Look up Deng Xiaoping's reforms in the 80's and see how the economic system changed from a communist model to a more technocratic/fascist one.
That was for the sake of argument. Now address the part where I slayed your 4 pillars of bullshit you read when you were getting your political science major.