Cel-shaded anime

does something like a very nicely animated cel-shaded anime exist?
very nicely animated as in, it isn't animated on 2s or 3s or trying to imitate shoestring budgets hand drawn anime in any other way
because it seems to me that with the technology available in the year of our lord (2017 - 1/243) somebody ought to be able to produce good CG anime instead of trying to imitate something that shouldn't have been in the first blace

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=AB2kXtKpABg
youtube.com/watch?v=B4Ds0fG1vn8
youtube.com/watch?v=l0X3ixj8UJM
youtube.com/watch?v=Wp-9MvP-MZA
youtube.com/watch?v=MDA1bUkotIk
youtube.com/watch?v=tz5siEX72nY
youtube.com/watch?v=-adDPWCL8GI
youtube.com/watch?v=VexJ_0Uvplw
youtube.com/watch?v=VudKBQ-bsMs
youtube.com/watch?v=t1iqJqfvV_o
sakugabooru.com/post/show/12350
youtu.be/Zb23-qAOjeg
youtu.be/HqUEISdpDss
youtu.be/1E4O5YFarYQ
youtube.com/watch?v=qaECpq61H8g
youtube.com/watch?v=y-PudD1UrvU
youtu.be/jQeIVpehXoc?t=17m35s
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

youtube.com/watch?v=AB2kXtKpABg

Cassette Girl

BBK/BRNK kinda

3D will NEVER look as good 2D
Why?

Simple mathematics

2D uses only x and y axis for animation. Thus, the medium always leads to fluid animation when shape morphing is used.

3D uses x, y and z axis for animation. The extra dimension prevents proper shape morphing as well as all other 2D animation techniques.

Simply put, 2D objects have less degrees of freedom thus, have less constraints to fluidity of movement.

The night portion of the Princess Precure movie: youtube.com/watch?v=B4Ds0fG1vn8

And hopefully Seikaisuru Kado: youtube.com/watch?v=l0X3ixj8UJM

Miyamoto Hiroshi, who directed the Refi portion of the Princess Precure movie, is in charge of supervising the character animation of Kado.

Stupidest attempt at looking smart I've ever seen.

youtube.com/watch?v=Wp-9MvP-MZA

>2D uses only x and y axis for animation.
Except for when they rotoscope.
Which is pretty much all the time.
You dumb bitch.

>Which is pretty much all the time.
Except it's not.

Anything with more than 5 keyframes you can bet your ass is rotoscoped. This is not the 80s bitchboi.

this really isn't the problem, shit CG is shit becouse the models aren't polished enough or becouse they didn't know how to handle the shadows.

CG on a realistic seting can look good, or even having a constant style on shading and textures make good looking products.

Good job, you picked an example of rotoscoping from two years ago that was infamous for sticking out like a sore thumb. Clearly that proves all anime is rotoscoping.

The bottom line is in your own sentence.
I choose the one that sticks out.
That is not to say other examples don't exist.
From this year there's quite a few.

Reality of the matter is, they don't need it for talking heads which is most of the episodes in solshit and other non action garbage, but it gets enough use in the few places they need movement.

>MUH ANIMU

This.

These both have the animation on twos, which OP didn't want.

Second season of Knights of Sidonia looked pretty cool at times

I will remain optimistic about the Blame! movie, I honestly think this style has potential

Just watch them interpolated.

PS that image has nothing to do with anime or animation.

youtube.com/watch?v=MDA1bUkotIk

youtube.com/watch?v=tz5siEX72nY

Animation of characters (in both seasons) was far from perfect but rest was really good.
Also other scenes than people (like mech scenes) looked more like cartoon than CGI from average modern mecha anime what looks more like just CGI.

You must be blind.

That is because modern mecha is all made by tracing 3d models the only reason we can't tell is because robots/machines don't look weird in 3D like humans do.

What happened to modern animators? Have they no skill in character animation?

3D is more realistic, which means you can't get away with simplistic animations like you can in 2D, yet they try anyway, and it looks robotic. The effort saved in not redrawing every frame must be put into livelier animation.

They're timed to imitate limited Japanese animation, but they're animated on 1s. It's not like they removed frames the way Rakuen Tsuihou or BBK/BRNK did.

It doesn't until someone steals namco's vesperia/graces shading

Time and budget happened also as anime got more detailed it got harder 1080vs480. Old anime was simpler and didn't let the QUALITY get in the way.

I enjoy Ronja Rövardotter.

>that first one with the ill-fitting special effects
>that second one with that awful music, screaming, and forced exposition.
>safeguard design looks changed for the worse
>looks choppy for God knows what reason
Pls no.

Really strange that particular old series look better than anime today. I think it also has to do with budget. As less and less budget goes into a series and more into merchandising and marketing.

Berserk?

>They're timed to imitate limited Japanese animation, but they're animated on 1s.
>It's not like they removed frames
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, it seems contradictory.

A CUTE!!!

Prove me wrong faggot

>Except for when they rotoscope.
Which is pretty much all the time.
You dumb bitch.

Do you even know what dimensions are?

Of course you don't. You fucking retard.


CGI is not the same as 3D animation.
3D is any animation with x,y,z axis involved. The extra dimension makes the animation rigid.

I pretty morphing of shapes has a a lot in common with you know...morphing shapes.

t.retard

...

Guilty Gear Xrd~

God damn I forgot how good Etotama's cg portions looked.

Its such a shame it flopped hard. they did a good job on the show.

You got me then. I've never frame-stepped and just assumed from Miyamoto's other works.

The movie ED is definitely on 1s though, and iirc the 3D Precure EDs are all set to 30fps.
youtube.com/watch?v=-adDPWCL8GI

There are the Aikatsu lives, which Samurai Pictures perfected toward the end. They never used mocap unlike the majority the CGI anime dance sequences that exist, so they have the potential to animate a really good looking full-length production.
youtube.com/watch?v=VexJ_0Uvplw

The biggest issue with 3D anime right now is that studios use the worst fucking shaders even though we have really convincing ones available.

And you're right that there are constrictions to using 3D. But you actually have it backwards. There's more freedom in 2D animation because you can do things that would be impossible in an actual 3D space. This results in cartoony transformations and stylized proportions that would be hard to carry into 3D without the proper tools to allow for it. The right camera tools could potential bridge this gap, though.

...

From these two, I can see that another issue in addition to shaders and skewed proportions is keyframes. 3D animation has the potential to look TOO fluid. They have to keep a balance in keyframes that makes it seem smooth like 2D but not TOO smooth or too stuttery.

Things like the hair physics are unnecessary as well, they make it look even less "convincing" if the idea is to mimmick 2D.

Fuck!
First people complain about lack of frames and how you complain of too many frames??
Make up your fucking mind!!

Anime production studios will use whatever tools and resources which would cut the most cost out of producing shows.

Some old series are definitely better but every era has it's own set of problems. we look back and we see the cream of the crop and complain that what we have is inferior when we have the same amount of good and terrible stuff.

the problem with berzerk was the direction not the 3D animation they could have made a good show even with 3D. Same with how I wont ever be able to enjoy Etotama even though the 3D is really good because I hate the entire premise.

Heres your (you) I guess.

>if the idea is to mimmick 2D
This is another problem with the 3D in the current era, people want anime (2D) or so they think but what really matters is if the whole product looks good and comes together well.
Between a competent 100% 3D show and an incompetent 3D to 2d lookalike I would choose the former every time. But if pressed to choose between 2D and 3D of similar quality I think I might go with 2D.

...

>This is another problem with the 3D in the current era, people want anime (2D) or so they think but what really matters is if the whole product looks good and comes together well.

It's still animation, and we have a lot of "laws" and "theories" of animation like we do with film or any other medium. Stuff like the hair flowing is uncanny, and in anime especially you want to avoid uncanny imagery because it can disrupt the viewer's immersion.

If we're to eventually switch to mostly 3D animation with 2D as a novelty, imitation is the way to go in terms of the transition. Once 3D anime comes into its own then animators can experiment more with it. And of course 2D will never completely fall out of style because there are techniques and aesthetics that simply cannot be replicated in 3D, like how some animation is still done traditionally vs digitally because digital animation cannot do everything traditional can.

...

Just look at guilty gear xrd.
Basically as good as cel shading gets

The only problem with this I have is that the character looks too damn 'clean' compared to the dirty as fuck backgrounds.

That combined with the fact that the backgrounds are flat plates, even though they try hard to hide it the character looks 'floaty' in some places like the feet in .

youtube.com/watch?v=VudKBQ-bsMs

Yeah but I pose that the only reason it is 'uncanny' is because it doesn't look 2D enough or 3D enough and is stuck in-between.

Hair physics are usually a plus, see how it's done in western media for good examples. It's just that this particular movie was fucking terrible.

Actually, just look at western media in general for examples of how powerful CGI can be. CHeck out Rogue and realize that almost everything you see, including some human characters is 100% CG. Watch a Pixar movie.

CGI has the potential to be an amazing tool for anime. The reality is that the anime industry is inexperienced with it, and too set in its ways to make progress.

CG PIGGU GO HOME

Japanese anime isn't and shouldn't be animated like Pixar's films. Pixar's characters aren't designed to be attractive like most anime characters, they're made with a general western audience in mind and are stretchy and pliable. They aren't focused on keyframes either, and I wouldn't sacrifice Japan's beautiful use of keyframes for anything.

I was hoping for something that looked good as well as being nicely animated
holy fuck how bad does this look
what were they thinking
way to answer to the original question
thanks for the input, tho I was hoping for something using a shader so to make everything look 2D, and still being animated on 1s
FLCL, to name one, doesn't look much like it's made using cel-shaded 3D models, and in most scenes it's animated like the vid about Seikaisuru Kado you posted, tho isn't there something that looks 2D and it's animated on 1s?
>which would cut the most cost out of producing shows.
take The Rolling Girls, which I'm guessing it's cel-shaded 3D models
it wouldn't have cost much more to render a bit more frames there since the models and key frames were already there
agreed
>I wouldn't sacrifice Japan's beautiful use of keyframes for anything.
>old stuff is better
>new stuff will never be as good as old stuff obviously

>FLCL, to name one, doesn't look much like it's made using cel-shaded 3D models
>take The Rolling Girls, which I'm guessing it's cel-shaded 3D models
The fuck are you talking about, they're both 2D productions.

Where's this from?

No, rotoscoping always stands out for several reasons:
* Animation designs rarely have realistic proportions, so tracing footage of a real person will cause a mismatch in that respect.
* Traditional animation is typically made by first drawing keyframes and then drawing in-between frames that transition from one keyframe to the next. The end result of this is that it's basically morphing from pose to pose (this is part of the reason why it's difficult to animate slow-moving objects). Live action footage does not have this behaviour, so rotoscoped animation ends up looking different in this way.
* Unless you're going full Aku no Hana, there will always be parts that cannot be traced at all; commonly, the head. Not only is this often the most disproportionate part of an animated character, which will stand out even more on a realistically proportioned body, it would end up being animated the conventional way, so even when animated on ones, its motion would stand out.
* Real people are slow compared to animated characters.

Now using existing footage as a reference, much like an illustrator will have books full of hands and poses, will undoubtedly be more common, but that's not the same as rotoscoping.

This is pretty much the thing that's lacking in 3DCG attempting to look like line art. Sure, it's possible in principle, but it would require making multiple 3D models for every character, which kind of goes against the whole reason 3DCG is typically used for: to lower costs.

gravity rush

youtube.com/watch?v=t1iqJqfvV_o

WHO SAID YOU COULD HAVE NICE THINGS

This shit was crazy, not to mention the CGI looked pretty good.

One day we'll have neural networks drawing anime for us. By the time that happens we'll be long gone dead.

What is this from?

Nippon no Mukashibanashi (Folktales from Japan). Note that every story in this series is drawn and animated in a different style. This one's from the most recent version of the Orihime and Hikoboshi story in episode 221.

All 2D anime human doll CG looks like crap. Maybe animators can reduce the 3D to 2D gap in the next few years, not only limiting to CG backgrounds.

These are the popular ones.

Guilty Gear, looks cheap with subpar art.

Etotama, generic Korean CG used on cheap mmorpg commercial, miniature CG human doll, and looks like 3D.

Casette girl, looks cheap, no innovation, and subpar art.

Polygon, subpar art and stuttering animation or low framerate.

Sanzigen, low framerate resulting to stiff animations.

Orange, still looks like 3D.

Disney's Paperman, still looks like 3D even with washout colors.


sakugabooru.com/post/show/12350
This came from one of Toei's CG director, who single-handedly improved Graphinica's CG animation, even though they have amateur animators, for example, they did a mistake on Haifuri, which is embarassing for a CG animator.

And they're improving.
youtu.be/Zb23-qAOjeg

Etotama and Expelled from Paradise

>Cel shaded anime

Thanks. I've watched a few episodes of that before and it seems like a neat series. Not sure if I can be bothered watching through the whole thing though.

...

Studios would need funding to develop animation software that allows for more modular models and skeletons.

Which they can't do because Japanese studios have almost negative funding. And Western studios like Pixar are only interested in making 3D look good, not making 3D look like 2D. It's an unfortunate conundrum.

INA
ZUMA
KICKUUUUUU

Is there a compilation of every time this has been referenced? Must be at least a dozen times.

There's hundreds of action anime that have come out since 1988, so at least dozens (plural).

>Cleopatra and I are basically BFF's for 3000 years
>suddenly CHINA declares war on me and Cleopatra sides with the treacherous chinks for some idiotic reason
>I thought we were friends, she's always praising my actions and bringing up the idea of forming an alliance
>I conquer both of their empires using my superior navy while repeatedly ignoring their pathetic attempts to make peace once they realized that they were going to lose
>every other civilization in the world hates me because they "think I'm a warmonger" even though I've never started a single war and have removed the REAL warmongers (the ones who actually declared war for no good reason) from existence

Why is it always so lonely at the top?

youtu.be/HqUEISdpDss
youtu.be/1E4O5YFarYQ
I liked Bubuki Buranki.
CGI is good for stills and short repetitive animations in characters. I personally hate obvious CGI backgrounds and faces, like when they talk and you can see the row of teeth. And one thing that always bothered me is when they just leave the physics and shadows on auto, so even a talking close up has hair and clothes awkwardly moving around and shadows constantly appearing and disappearing with every movement.

There is a cost there for that which you didn't calculate. Making CG look like cel is more or less untreaded territory. If people will like it or not is unknown or if there is a feasible way to do it and have it not cost an absurd amount of money is also a variable to look at. In the end there is no reason to do that as whay works not works fine.

Why do the Jap animation studios have such tight budgets? Is anime in general just not very profitable or is the money just allocated in a way that leaves the animation side of the operation disproportionally underfunded compared to western animation studios?

As you'll no doubt have noticed there's not a shred of continuity in the series, so you can just watch whatever you're interested in. Sometimes they remake stories they already adapted once or twice and it's kind of interesting to see the differences between the versions, but that alone is not enough reason to take on this 246 and counting episode colossus wholesale. That said, if you are interested in following the series, I do recommend watching the earlier episodes up to a point instead of only watching the episodes coming out from now on, simply because that's where all the well-known stories are concentrated.

To add to this the only CG show that looked really good were shows that used videogame CG such as etotama and bubuki.

>shows that used videogame CG
???

Bubuki used the same CG for the show that the recent fire emblem games used for it's cutscenes. Those CG were tried and tested and the result was something that didn't look like complete ass. Regular anime CG ends up looking fairly bad with the exception of sidonia.

Most animation in Japan is contract work. That means that how much a studio is charging for its services will be a major factor in a production company's decision which studio to go with for a certain project. It's therefore often in a studio's interest to make their prices as low as possible.

Do Wind Waker's (GC) cutscenes count?

>a very nicely animated cel-shaded anime
>nicely animated cel-shaded anime
>cel-shaded anime
>anime
>ANIME
Take a wild fucking guess, idiot.

I think the biggest issues with 3D anime are these top 4 things.
1. Animation Quality (budget/talent)
2. Framerate (design)
3. Lighting (budget)
4. Model Quality. (talent)

So much could be improved in anime if the top 2 were fixed. Why people decide to limit the framerate of 3D anime down to the teens makes things look absurdly janky.

And for those who don't have the budget to get fantastic results, they can always draw over the most important bits of the 3D models to make things look better.

>Bubuki used the same CG for the show that the recent fire emblem games used for it's cutscenes.
That's... clearly not the case. They're entirely separate productions utilising noticeably different animation pipelines.

I think you're getting yourself confused over the simple fact that both franchises had Kozaki Yuusuke working on character design...? In which case you really shouldn't be talking like you're a sort of authority on anything when you're making huge assumptions based on half-assed observations.

Guilty Gear would like to have a word with you

Sidonia looked crap too, with its zero-g creaseless plastic clothing and underwater-slow character movements

3D already looks better than 2D. You want the highest quality animation in the world? Go watch the pixar short that aired before finding dory. Nothing 2D can ever touch it.

CC2 CGI anime when?

youtube.com/watch?v=qaECpq61H8g

youtube.com/watch?v=y-PudD1UrvU

youtu.be/jQeIVpehXoc?t=17m35s

...

Fitting because it takes place in fucking space

He's also designed characters for a couple of CG projects by Khara.

He seems to be a real favourite when it comes to adapting anime style into 3D.

this shit is like 20fps?

>english
puking my brains out.

In a ship with artificial gravity

All of you guys should go back on r/anime and r/sakuga

And you should fuck off back to gaia