Blockstream is attempting to (already has) hijack the bitcoin network via Segwit and Lighting Network. This will centralize bitcoin and stream profits into Blockstream, which is controlled by Bilderberg
This is politics related. I thought Sup Forums hated (((bankers))).
Adrian Phillips
Explain how they are trying to do this please user
Evan Moore
It started with Segwit, which was a soft fork. The only way to remove Segwit is with a hard fork. So the bitcoin protocol has already been altered. The goal of Blockstream is to keep block sizes small so users demand off chain scaling (Segwit, Lightning Network, etc.) to handle transaction times and to keep fees lower. However these (((off chain))) scaling solutions are highly centralized and fees for something like LN will go directly to Blockstream.
These off chain solutions are completely unnecessary. Scaling can be done on chain and should be. The whole fucking purpose of bitcoin is to carry out voluntary economic activity on a trustless distributed ledger that nobody can censor or control. These Kikes will change that.
Bitcoin was never meant to be used, it’s a store of value like gold.
Austin Rodriguez
youre fucking retarded please kys
Lincoln Morales
You don’t know anything about bitcoin you retard.
Ryan Rivera
im holding bitcoin and a few other altcoins right now you fucking idiot
Jacob Perez
So why aren’t you spending it?
Joseph Torres
because i litterally cant without paying 50$ in mining fee's which is the point of this thread you fucking idiot there would be little to no fee's without blockstreams kikery
also here satoshis first sentences when publishing bitcoin
I've developed a new open source P2P e-cash system called Bitcoin. It's completely decentralized, with no central server or trusted parties, because everything is based on crypto proof instead of trust. Give it a try, or take a look at the screenshots and design paper:
Download Bitcoin v0.1 at bitcoin.org where does it say store of value
Joseph Hernandez
Do you know why mining fees have to be so high?
Do you understand it cost money to run the network?
Christopher Rodriguez
Bitcoin will never scale for mass adoption. Delusional.
IOTA is the future of crypto-currency (no mining, no fees, infinitely scalable, quantum secure)
Dylan Gray
Mining fees are high because block sizes are small so transactions are limited you fucking brainlet. That is the whole purpose of this thread. Read the goddamn whitepaper.
Bentley Collins
Mining fees are high because block reward is low you retard.
Set up your own mining pool and accept lower the transaction cost.
Benjamin Diaz
It's not a "bug"; it's a "feature" and that's because the lightning network is really just a banking protocol for the underlying hard asset with the locked "balance" in the channel acting as deposits. All the crypto-bank has to do at this point is say "if you don't have enough to deposit, you can just open a free account with us and we'll open a "channel" for you. The catch is that the litecoins you get aren't even fucking real except at the crypto-bank you bank with, because they're crediting your lightning-network account with litecoin that never even had a channel opened for it, it's just payments within the hub itself. The actual legit LTC they have will go to settlements with other large crypto-banks rather than to any customers, because why the fuck do customers really need real LTC; they don't transact on-chain anyway.
>what's the difference bcash allows about 8x the amount of transactions per block as btc, because the block size is 8MB instead of 1MB
>why does that matter Because since there is more space on a block and more transactions can fit on it, the bcash network can handle more transactions at a lower fee than BTC.
>so why do people object to bcash Because the solution is somewhat temporary in the sense that if in 2-3 years instead of 3 million people using crypto it's closer to 3 billion and they are doing 100x more transactions than they are now, that means the block size would need to be 100GB, and the blockchain would be petabytes of space.
First, this is an entirely speculative objection. Nobody "knows" 3 billion people will be using crypto in 2021. Second, there is literally nothing stopping anyone from just making a hundred shitcoin cash clones, which means now all of them can have 1GB blocks. Functionally this is exactly what the lightning network is, since "side-chains" are really the same as shitcoin blockchains.
Cooper Nguyen
>why do people hate the lightning network and segwit so much then Because the lightning network does one thing that shitcoin clones don't - it gives tremendous ability for wealthy individuals to operate "hubs", which are really banks, and everyone now has to trust the hub with their BTC "on deposit". The lightning network is actually a banking protocol, and that's exactly what bitcoin is meant to get rid of.
>be (((blockstream))) >realize some uppity nip came up with a new form of gold >dust off the old "how to take the goyim's shekels" textbook >step 1: convince the goyim that gold is super valuable but hard to use in practice >step 2: convince the goyim to give you their gold in exchange for IOUs for convenient transactions >step 3: create more IOUs than the amount of gold you have, because the goyim won't cash out anyway >step 4: profit off your fractional reserve bank Literally. Every. Fucking. Time.
Aiden Bailey
You are criminally uninformed or shilling.
Julian Martinez
>bcash
Josiah Myers
finally a smart american keep it up youre a rare one
Joshua Stewart
And people will just move away from using bitcoin to some other crypto so who gives a fuck
Landon Brooks
Bitcoin Cash is the real Bitcoin
Nathan Foster
>mining fees are high because block reward is low Wrong; fees are independent of the block reward and most large pools keep the fees and only pay out the block reward.
>why are fees so high Because there is only 1MB per 10 minutes of transaction space, so everybody who wants to transact in that 10 minutes has to bid against each other to get into that particular block; those who's bid was too low will either get into the next block (if their bid is high enough) or stay in the mempool for 2 weeks (I believe, not sure) and then the transaction is cancelled.
All the services promised via lighting network can already be carried out on something like Coinbase without compromising bitcoin's blockchain. The idea we need a central authority handling transactions over bitcoin is fucking absurd and the antithesis of bitcoin.
Chase Gomez
I love the drama of crypto markets. People crying, people screaming their opinions. All while I make massive amount of money while watching Anime on my computer being a NEET. Anyways This thread is pretty much bullshit and go along and do whatever, nothing is going to happen at the end of the day like usual.
David Carter
Nah. Bitcoin is ingrained into the normie consciousness as THE cryptocurrency and thing to get in on. People serious about anonymity and free trade may make a switch, but it's hard to change the mind of a normalfag if it means them having to learn something new. This "service" will attract even more normalfags to Bitcoin as it removes the preconception that it is hard to use and streamlines it.
Apathy is death
Jackson Garcia
>giving this much shit about what its called This is why fucking potcoin is still a goddamn thing.
I'm not an Amerimutt; I'm a pajeet. Amerimutts are stupid because they have nigger admixture in both genetics and culture, never respect them.
Justin Nguyen
Can they be stored offline?
Cameron Thompson
The audacity of these scheming fucking kikes!
Ryan Flores
>Apathy is death Its just that nothing is going to happen like usual, people say bitcoin is dead for 100th time, you guys just don't get it. Just ignore whatever FUD there is and get along with your trading, nothing is going to happen.
Julian Wright
>The whole fucking purpose of bitcoin is to carry out voluntary economic activity on a trustless distributed ledger that nobody can censor or control
I think the meme Satoshi created in his white paper will be realized in other coins like XMR. Those involved in crypto who are in it for the idea of financial freedom rather than a gravytrain to ride will move away from BTC. To much corporatization. Let (((them))) have BTC as we silently move away from it and strengthen other coins with lower power demands for mining (which helps attract smaller miners resulting in wider distributed networks) and better anonymity and security features. While it would be nice to see BTC achieving Satoshi's vision, having other coins succeed instead would still be a win. Remember, it's the idea that's important.
we need a decentralized exchange thats open source at the same time. No cuckery
Gabriel Powell
I'm not trying to FUD cryptos, my dude. I'm so balls deep in this market that I can't really afford it to go away. That doesn't change the fact of what is happening with bitcoin right now. I'm holding both btc and bch, but btc is corrupted because of kikery and I honestly hope it loses out to bch or something else.
I too have high hopes for XMR.
I have some wallets on my harddrive (those are still backed up on paper though).
Cameron Cruz
>I love the drama of crypto markets.
lol
Xavier Wood
send them to Auschwitz before it`s to late
Tyler Garcia
This is not on an exchange, right
Aaron Wood
Its a hardware wallet.
Jaxon Sullivan
I think even if you want to go long BTC that LTC is the better buy; they're basically fully integrated into core cuckery and the lightning network is supposed to debut with atomic swaps between BTC & LTC. Whereas BTC is already $10k, LTC is nowhere near the $2500 that it should be at if the two were functionally equivalent (easy liquid switching through atomic swaps, both using lightning networks (with probably the same "hubs" doing the exchanging).
>BCH vs BTC I think BTC will win and once again the kikes have fooled the goyim. Frankly, I'm just betting on the favored team, seeing as (((their))) win rate is 100% and the last guy who even got close to winning is treated as evil incarnate.
Charles Fisher
LTC has all the exact same problems as Bitcoin. Off chain scaling is not blockchain nor is it technological innovation at all.
Dylan Green
Of course. If Bitcoin wasn't such a scam, I'd be opening a "Bank" right away. Why pay a "transaction fee" all the time? I'd give them zero-transfer internal accounts (not bitcoin) and any user of my service can transfer money to each other.... for a minimal montly fee.
Well, cryptocurrency is a scam though and I'm not touching it.
Carter King
Here you go. Decentralized, open source, crypto exchange routed over tor in a handy app.
Yeah; it has the exact same problems because blockstream wants to functionally merge them together as the segwitcoins. The difference is it has more upside than BTC right now, because for BTC to make another 100% it would have to go from 10k to 20k, whereas for LTC to do it it would be closer to going from $100 to $200, still well below parity given that there are only 4 times as many LTC as BTC and the two are functionally going to be the same asset once blockstream is done implementing the lightning network.
Jonathan Fisher
I am just curious, what's the other realistic options to scale other than the ligthtning network?
Wouldn't we need blocks in the size of several gigabytes to handle all the small transactions that happens in Burgerland everyday?
Big blocks makes it quite unfeasible for someone like me run my own node. So with HUGE blocksize we will still have centralization, just the other way?
What prevents us from forking blockstreams lightning network technology if they are evil?
Anthony Perry
someone has to stop these kikes
Landon Howard
The problem is that Blockstream should have hard forked for Segwit, not soft fork. The chain has been taken over by Segwit and the only way to remove it is via a hard fork.
We're no where near cost prohibitive node hosting with 8MB blocks. Although when bitcoin first came out 8MB would have been far too much for people to run a node. Bitcoin follows exponential growth along with computing. So hosting even massive blocks in the future shouldn't be an issue. Moore's Law is shakey but not wildly inaccurate.
All that said, most people aren't interested in running full nodes.
Charles Cruz
>bigger blocks >more coins These are enough to handle any scaling issue. You don't typically use cash to buy a house, and you don't typically use a wire transfer to buy coffee. There's no reason why the same crypto should have to be convenient for both transactions; cryptos should specialize to the market they cater to. That's why the bitcoin protocol is open-source.
>why should we hate the lightning network and never implement it Centralization by itself isn't necessarily bad; it's akin to specialization of labor. However, centralization based on the amount of wealth you have, and then funneling all transactions through the wealthy, is obviously ripe for abuse and diametrically opposed to the original whitepaper.
>muh miners are centralized Yeah, except anybody with $5k USD to spare can become a miner by buying hardware from amazon.com; you can also choose to mine and use non-SHA-256 coins, and mining was already designed with safeguards to prevent harmful centralization (no pool is allowed to get more than 40% of the hash rate because it threatens the security of the blockchain, etc.)
>full node If you want to be part of running the network, you need to have the capital to back it up. Perhaps full nodes should receive some remuneration (in the original whitepaper nodes and miners were the same thing and you could mine from the wallet itself), but as long as there are numerous nodes there really isn't much marginal increase in security for each new node added.
Jaxson Hall
you are woefully misinformed.
>Scaling can be done on chain and should be. Increasing the block size directly leads to increased centralization, because it increases the resources required to run a full node. Larger blocks require more storage and more computation to verify. Even with the current block size, lots of people run SPV nodes, sacrificing security for convenience. Doubling or quadrupling the block size only kicks the can down the road -- once 2x more people start using Bitcoin, we have to increase the block size again and make it even harder for the average person to run a full node. On-chain solutions will never be able to scale to the same degree as off-chain solutions.
>However these (((off chain))) scaling solutions are highly centralized How exactly is a spoke-and-hub payment channel network "highly centralized?" LN is decentralized, not distributed (which would arguably be better), but it certainly isn't centralized.
t. actual crypto dev
Ryan Barnes
>how exactly is a centralized hub network "highly centralized"
idk Cletus you tell me. 8MB blocks is hardly taxing at all for modern storage. We aren't at Visa levels and even if we were, where the fuck is your kike-lighting network, meanwhile Segwit only boosts blocks 1.7x. Not at all worth it considering the extra risks involved.
>hello fellow white supremacists kys
Sebastian Robinson
So much misinformation in this thread its incredible
Daniel Diaz
Anyone referring to Bitcoin Cash as bcash is trying to discredit it in favour of Bitcoin Segwit and is either a dumb brainwashed speculator or paid off shill.
I've been using btc since 2012 and saw the scaling debate unfold first hand, the takeover of almost all communication channels by blockstream, the ddos attacks against the bitcoin unlimited client nodes, the css code that sorts reddit threads by most controversial and hides scores.
Read the bitcoin white paper and the only logical conclusion is that Bitcoin Cash is Bitcoin and Bitcoin Segwit can only lead to a fractional reserve banking system controlled by (((them)))
Thomas Phillips
Isn't the only real value that Bitcoin had was the fact that you could transfer anonymously? Which was mostly valuable for illicit shit.
The only value it has now is it's $ value. When people make transactions with Bitcoin at the end of the day it gets converted to $.
Since silk road was compromised and all of you these know your buyer anti money laundering laws popped up Bitcoin and crypto currencies are basically a meme. Like Enron level bullshit.
Eli Bailey
You faggots fell for entirely digital scam currency and now you're complaining about the fact that you are being scammed - and that it's so easy. Well, tough luck there. Fucking lowlifes.
Wyatt Sanchez
Here we are actively taking steps against central banking cartels while you slurp up Mohammad's cum. Get fucked
Joseph Thompson
nigger, this shit's from over a year ago
Jackson Russell
I pity you. You really thought that bitcoin would make a difference rather than being the scam that it is. >hey, invest in this cool new idea to fight the (((bankers))) >(((bankers))) invest, too >FUCKING KIKES TRYING TO SUBVERT US Yeah, yeah. I know, you think you're cool by throwing those occasional Sup Forums memes, but the hard truth is that you have been played like a fiddle and now you're butthurt about it. Oh and should I mention again that this entirely digital currency sure wouldn't be used to fuck you up even harder than now ? I'm sure you had taken this into account when you threw your money at this stupid shit.
The only things you should invest in are skills that will make you competitive when shit goes down and supply/gear that helps you to overcome some months of no running water, electricity and heat.
Elijah Murphy
Wonderful, stick to your central banking system and fuck off this thread.
Samuel Gomez
You still don't see the gravity in all this, do you ? This has nothing to do with me being in favor of central banking. You're making a fool of yourself. Whatever man. I'll say a prayer for you in hope that you'll open your eyes and turn on your brain next time.
Andrew Howard
Autistically screeching bitcoin is a kike scam isn't getting any point across. This is an attack that was never a part of the protocol. You're advice is to take it laying down.
Matthew Butler
Scam? Made over $1,000,000 from an initial investment of $6,000. Enjoy being poor you daft fuck.
By building a new financial system free of bullshit merchant tactics we can actually turn the tide and build a better world
Jack Jenkins
>bitcoin is a scam You're a moron and no one should take your opinion seriously. >that flag And now we know why.
Jack Lewis
The original Bitcoin is still functioning as intended, it got a name change to Bitcoin Cash.
Brayden Martinez
So I'm real fucking dumb when it comes to computers but what exactly put the money in Bitcoin. Was it something that existed before someone else found it or was it created. If it was created what exactly put the value into it.
Like if I pick up an acorn and then start collecting more acorns then offer other people the acorns they aren't actually worth anything. But if I actually created acorns from blocks of wood and gave them to people it would make more sense to have value. It's so confusing
Zachary Cox
Does not have to be illicit anything.
Asher Wilson
If something sounds too good to be true, it usually isn't.
If not like this, then (((they))) would have banned buttcoin and hunted down all profits made by it and then shilled their own cryptocurrency for normies.
Nicholas Jones
this what even is bitcoin, really?
Jaxon Martin
>i'm real fucking dumb We know.
>where does the value come from? Like all other value, it comes from what its purchaser is willing to pay and the seller is willing to take
>acorns Wrong; the value of the acorn comes from what people are willing to pay for your acorns. Since you can just pick them off the ground and they aren't useful for anything, nobody wants to pay you anything for them. Since a bitcoin is a secure way to transfer money globally and is only available in limited quantities, people want it.
Nathan Robinson
I knew pol wasn't ready for this conversation
Anthony Wright
Answer these question: What is money? What are the qualities of good money? What gives money value?
Eli Jones
Literally the opposite of that lmao
Ryan Wilson
>what is bitcoin Pseudo-anonymous peer-to-peer digital currency transfer protocol
>what the fuck does that mean It's a decentralized system of accounting where fellow peers verify the trustworthiness of counterparties for each other, rather than having a (((centralized clearing house))).
>how does it work Let's suppose I wanted to buy 50 apples from you for 20 bananas; but both of us don't trust anyone on Sup Forums. One of us can make a post saying I owe him 50 apples when he gives me 20 bananas, and then a bunch of anons screenshot my post. If I don't give you the apples or you don't give me the bananas, then either of us can go to Sup Forums and say "reproduce the screenshot of the deal" and some user will post it, so now the delinquent party has to make good on the deal. That's roughly what a blockchain does; the Bitcoin blockchain maintains that record for bitcoins and not apples and bananas.
Noah Powell
>99p a pint a pint here would be like £10.
Jeremiah Watson
Which is very unfortunate. Actual technological and political discussions concerning blockchain don't occur on /biz/. Which I'm okay with. Those conversations can happen here.
Evan Torres
It's important that you give the social democrats your money so that they can spend it on gibs and cat lady kleptocrats.
Angel Murphy
Must be suck being so new to bitcoin.
Ryder Perry
>expecting an actual meritorious discussion on either Sup Forums or /biz/ You seem to be lost. Sup Forums is for making fun of people based on their nationality and /biz/ is for making fun of people because they are or will become poor. There are no discussions here.
Dylan Thompson
They did a lot back in august. You can't make a thread about it there now without getting brigaded by blockstream shills.
Grayson Morris
Salty bcashie detected.
Brody Harris
Maybe it's a bubble. Or maybe bad money (fiat) is being spent as fast as possible and good money (crypo) is being hoarded.
Nolan Rivera
I'm holding both. This migration out of bitcoin isn't going to happen over night. If you aren't seriously concerned with this shit, that is on you.
Jordan Smith
Good info but not quite what I'm getting at. I mean physically really what is a Bitcoin. How was it created. A block of wood with shavings shaved off with each shaving representing a BTC is how it was presented to me but what is the block and what is the block made from. I'm assuming ones and zeros like all other digital information, but what block did these string of numbers come from and what did the original block come from.
Lucas Thompson
>blogpost to explain electric money this is why it will never be adopted
>hey hunny have you updated your wallet to nioghtloy build 34.4 and switched to fork 4128 and enabled DDOS protection on the plasma coil network? be sure to invert the blockspectrogram as well
ITS A FUCKING SCAM YOU IMBECILES
Xavier Hill
nioghtloy = nightly damn
Luke Ross
dump ass buttcoin users you should have switched to monero. who's laughing now.
Caleb Green
They are dishonest people. When the bubble pops for good they will be long gone, leaving functional currencies in the rubble.
Easton Gomez
>The Genesis Block Bitcoin is made from something called the Merkle Tree in mathematics, in which an initial seed provides the basis for all other iterations and each iteration is cryptographically bound to the previous
Matthew Johnson
>Durka durka, I sure wish I could've invested $1,000 less than a decade ago and get millions in return >MUH JEWISH SCAM, CENTRAL BANK NOTES ARE THE WAY TO GO
Don't be so butthurt, Muhammad.
Hunter Gutierrez
Original block was mined at pic related bitcoin is a decentralized trustless ledger. Meaning it requires no authority from anyone ever at all to make transactions occur. When Visa and Paypal shut out Wikileaks, Wikileaks began accepting bitcoin. It's also more secure than fucking Fort Knox.
>new technology never comes with challenges >smart people didn't invest into the internet because it was too difficult to understand
>blocks of wood Get this idea out of your head, it's useless
>what block did it start at Block #0, the genesis block. Nothing is included nor were any fees or txns generated in this block, but it creates the hash for the next block, which is where the blockchain started.
>how are bitcoins created 12.5 new bitcoins are created each time a new block is solved, and given to the address associated with the solution provider according to the bitcoin network (which is usually a pool, and the pool then distributes those bitcoins and possibly any generated fees from txns to the miners).
>what is a block A set of transactions from one bitcoin address to another
>how is it "mined" By hashing the transactions in the block and its number into a "solution" that is easy to verify against the previous blocks in the blockchain; those txns (transactions) hashes allow you to follow a coin all the way from its inception (the block where it was first given as a reward) all the way to its current wallet address (who is credited with owning those bitcoins now).
For completeness, it is also relevant to say that the BTC block reward halves roughly ever 4 years, with the next block reward of 6.25 being expected in 2021. Once all 21 million bitcoins are rewarded, no further block rewards will be given and only the txn fee is paid to the pool which hashed the block.
Jordan Myers
(((IOTA)))
Elijah Harris
...
Jayden Butler
Makes perfect sense, eh?
>Make the value crash >Buy up shekels >subvert the infrastructure >own the sheckels
C'mon guys, you didn't see this shit coming? If (((they))) cannot control it, they simply take it over. Next thing you know, there will be "BitCoin" payment options replacing PayPal everywhere.
Nolan Bennett
Alright I'm feeling it. I'm getting a feel I think. So a block is the string of numbers. Someone wrote a program that created a string of numbers and hid them in sections which then break into 21 million individual strings. Mining is just figuring out the string for each block which then is broken into 12(or however many at a given time) pieces of the block (long string).
Landon Adams
>a block is a string of numbers Yes, a very very long string of numbers
>hid them in sections with 21 million individual strings This isn't the right way to think about it; you should think about it as we need a new string of numbers every 10 minutes because people are moving the numbers around
>mining is figuring out the string for each block Yeah, the new block needs a new string and the miners are tasked with figuring out a suitable string, and the one who finds it gets to increase the number in the string corresponding to his own balance
Wyatt Thompson
No a block isn't something that is broken up and distributed as rewards. A block is just a record of transactions that happened within (usually) 10 minutes which are cryptographically linked to the next block in the chain, hence "blockchain".
What you need to understand about mining is that its used to secure the network via Proof of Work. This way the network is kept honest. Meaning no one can double spend and all ledgers on the network are in sync with each other. So everyone on the network can prove that Tom gave Sally .0023 BTC, its impossible for Tom to un-give Sally .0023 BTC and its also impossible for Tom to double spend that .0023 BTC somewhere else.
The fact that miners receive a reward is merely economic incentives to keep people mining to keep the network secure.
Michael Smith
Oh shit okay. Wow I've been struggling with this for months. I think I get it now.
Next question. Can you cash out? Say someone bought a few and now they're worth x amount (10K i think) can someone just say hey y'all wanna buy these?