What the actual fuck is going on here...

What the actual fuck is going on here? All they need to do is stop flying in a circle like mongs and turn towards the enemy and shoot them in the side before they get the same idea.
This series makes no sense.

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>Not using space circles

Instead of making a million little peashooter ships, they should make like five ships with proper big beams.

so do they ever explain how space battles work or do they just never explain it?

You just have a lot of ships firing lasers from their noses.
You'd think that such a fact would make them avoid charging into the enemy lines and leaving their sides exposed, but no.

I think the point was that they can't turn that fast to do that, but yeah, it was kinda dumb.

We see them quickly turning on the spot all the time, though.

If they turn towards the enemy they're flanked on all sides.

Like some kinda star of death...a Death Star?

Many of those space battles are dumb if you think about it. I just got with the flow of the story and convinced myself that I was watching brillant tactics. If you can't do that then watching Gineiden must suck.

You don't even need that. Just strap one of those fortress guns onto a thin pole shaped ship that the enemy can't hit from afar.

>ship turns around
>gets blown the fuck out as it's turning because its sides are exposed

good plan, admiral

if u turn around u get shot and died

Ask EVE Online how that worked out for them.
youtube.com/watch?v=ymdSjCYK_PI
4000 dollars burned by starter ships and boredom.

Whoever doesn't stop will have the upper hand. Those ships have shit maneuverability in the vastness of space.

And risk to fail because of the long fucking distances just to harm a tiny bit of the fleet?

Not quick enough for a battle. They could be turning for an hour for all we know. It's a lot of mass they have to move.

Machinery needed for that is too big. It won't fit the thin pole ship

Ex-Naval Officer and developer of Fleet Tactical Command

Naval battles on earth and in space require constant motion. If you stop, you are dead. Space fleet battles are more like jousting, but you are jousting with thousands of other ships at the same time. This means that your ship always has to be moving in synchronous with the fleet.

If anyone one ship breaks formation it is going to be an easy target, so ships stay together in formation for defense and attack. This battle in OPs image in analogous to a aircraft dogfight, where one aircraft is on the tail of the other. If the leading aircraft tries to turn away it will expose its weakest points and get shot down. If the follow aircraft pulls or turns away it will lose its advantage on the leading aircraft.

In OPs image one fleet has pulled away and the other is chasing, but because the fleets are so large they have extended out so far that the chasing fleet has been caught behind by the fleeing fleet. If any fleet breaks off pursuit, they will lose advantage and get destroyed. They can't turn or fly into the enemy fleet because of their speed and vector (just like an aircraft can't perform certain maneuvers due to airspeed and resistance). You need to remember that when space vessels are moving, they have been accelerating for a while and are going at fractions of light speed. They aren't that maneuverable.

They can still rotate the last few ships around and have them shoot at the enemy while still flying away with their existing momentum.

As much as I appreciate the counter argument by navy user I also see no reason why the ships had to present their asses to laser fire instead of turning and reversing. We say this tactic used in other battles so we know this maneuver is technically possible.

Why don't these ships have turrets anyway? This nose gun business is clearly dumb.

Space vessels are constantly accelerating. Cutting thrust allows chasing vessels to overhaul.

The few ships on the end could rotate to fire, however it would mean cutting main thrusters and being left behind by the rest of the fleet. It would be a pointless suicide. There is also the fact that they would be presenting their broad side during the maneuver, increasing chances of getting critically damaged.

It is possible, but you end up with the same issue in the Battle of Trafalgar. Once ships separate from the fleet and start mixing with the enemy, all the strength of having a fleet is lost. It also increases the chances of friendly fire, which you want to avoid.

Ships in the LoGH also have forward mounted armaments for fleet engagements. Unlike ships in say Yamato 2199, which use turret configurations for smaller engagements or skirmishes. Forward mounted weapons are akin to the early torpedo boats circa 1920. Massive amounts of fire power forward, but the ships can't brawl in closer engagements. Its a trade-off of firepower and firing angles.

In this particular battle the OP mentioned, it would have been possible to tell (either) of the fleets to reverse course and engage, however that would have caused a breakthrough maneuver followed by encircling of the enemy fleet (which is seen later in the series and doesn't end well).

In this particular engagement there was nothing either fleet could do to continue fighting. Turning to engage would lead to destruction, so the only option was to disengage, get distance, regroup and re-engage.

The ship battles are not meant to be realistic sci-fi, so any attempt to criticise them as such is folly.

Presumably their laser tech is at a point where they can't easily scale them onto a starship, so the most effective ship designs have clusters of lasers mounted within the bow of the ship in a forward broadside configuration. Think an age of sail man-of-war or ship of the line where their firepower was counted in number of cannons since modern battleship turrets hadn't been developed yet. Because of this ships in LoGH are generally treated similar to musket line infantry, firing in formation.

The reason why an attacking fleet can get away with charging into enemy lines is threefold: They are within the enemy's formation so the defending fleet can't fire freely without risking substantial friendly fire from missed shots, spaceships cannot melee like infantry do and the explosion and debris from blowing up one at close range would kill you too, and if the defending formation were to turn to face the attacking vanguard the defending fleet would be fully exposed to the attacker's rear guard.

All the negatives will apply to your fleet as well, though. The only way I see that making sense is if you're planning to leave the field and want to create a gap between yourself and the enemy by forcing them to do a full turn and losing their speed.
But if that's what you had in mind, you wouldn't be turning back towards them and engaging in this snake business, now would you?

The novel went into a bit more detail than the show regarding why combat was what it was. Basically weapons tech accelerated faster than ship design, armor and miniaturization could keep up with, hence the spinal mounting and fragility of the ships. There were turrets in both the novel and OVA, but those were good for point defence only.
Similarly, sensor, communication and ECM tech became so advanced and commonplace that they rendered the others completely obsolete, which necessitated mass visual scanning, tight fleet formations, and courier shuttles for communications.

turn radius could be large enough that ships with exposed side armour would be out of effective range.

The negatives do apply but the attacker is at an advantage. By concentrating their entire formation on a single point of the defending fleet they only have to worry about shooting the ships in their path. The speed of their advance would then be determined by the speed which they could sink and clear away the ships in front of them.

The defending fleet is at a major disadvantage as the "column" being attacked is effectively defending against the entire attacking fleet at once, while the rest of the defenders can do nothing but pick away at the outside edges of the attacking formation.

By using the drill formation in that particular battle Reinhard aimed to apply this on a larger scale by "drilling" out an increasingly widening area of the defending formation until every defending ship was wiped out.

havent you heard of spin to win?

I thought the point of that battle was that Reinhard's and Yang's keikaku battle became so evenly matched because the instant anyone moved, they made the perfect counter move, that it ended up being in that circular stalemate.

In a larger sense, though, the battles tactics are mostly trash in Logh, it's mainly a show about personalities.

Have you never been in a dogfight? You can't do that shit or else you'll get fucking shot. That's why you either do the tornado or some variant to catch the enemy off guard.

This is a series where the admiralty didn't understand force concentration and someone was considered a genius for not waiting for the enemy to rally 3 fleets against them.

Is this taking place in space? If so, almost none of the normal dogfight rules apply here. Combat in space would be totally different without gravity and air drag. Very tight turns like you're used to seeing would be almost impossible.
----

Make it a really, really, REALLY long pole.

Or if a long pole can't warp, let it be a thicc ship that unfolds into a long pole after warping.

...

This. Primary thrusters are on the rear, there is no air to make use of mechanical steering options that you find on contemporary aircraft. All you have to steer in space is weaker supplemental thrusters located at intervals around the rest of the ship. They aren't sufficient to overcome forward inertial forces instantaneously, especially when a craft has been accelerating for awhile.

It's /lit/fic. So the reason the ships as an ouroboros is because symbolism, and asking for any deeper reason than that is pure vulgarity and you should stick to baby-tier cartoons instead.

>assuming that you can get to the safezone without injury.
you're just a lost sheep once the enemy took their chance to circulate around you.

>making huge ships
>not just making thousands or millions of 1 man fighter, bomber,suicide and escort ships
killing 300 men is a good opportunity
killing 1 man is a waste of bullet or energy

The little ships run out of fuel too fast.

then they crash it to the enemy ships

Is it like the case in Homeworld where the ion cannons were so large and long you literally have to build a ship around it

Kinda. It's also why they never fail to explode spectacularly if you so much as sneeze on them.

>not just running a simulation and basing the outcome on that

And this is what made STW:FotS a nightmare when attacking in naval battles. The AI would just make a line and sit there. The only way to win was to split into two groups and hope to get into firing position fast enough to take advantage of their tightly-grouped formation.

Magnificent Design

Does anyone even care about war strategies and logistics in LoGH? I stopped watching the show literally after that retarded first battle.
>hehe, we will part our forces in 3s and attack from all sides
>oh no, the full enemy fleet is charging full ahead
>rip 20k ships
>oh no, they have defeated us, sound the retreat
>hehe ez pz, you are a master tactician Lord blonde-sama
>tsk, nothing personal kid, simply a matter of numbers
Fucking nips. No wonder they lost WW2.

>Lord blonde-sama
They literally call him "poop".

>simulation
you can simulate the something that cant be quantum-ed user

Meanwhile in world of warships, the battleship bow forward meta going reverse, and xy-z cannons layout is a thing that dominates high tiers. (yeah i know in space you cannot arc fire over teammates).

To be fair, and it's something only alluded to in one or two lines in the movie, Reinhard had to really haul ass to reach the center fleet in time. The alliance was expecting them to arrive hours later, and Reinhard's fleet's formation had become messy by the time they arrived. The only reason it worked was because of their superior numbers since the center fleet was also the smallest. The other admirals were against it because they were biased from experience into thinking that a fleet in formation's top speed was a set in stone number and letting a formation fall apart like that in favour of speed was unfathomable.

Distances and speeds are the only really wonky things in LoGH. The strategies are passable but you won't enjoy it if you read too deeply into them, there's no time to explain every little detail or it'd just be exposition hell.

Logistics will be a thing later on in the series and Yang is constantly pulling some really faggy tricks.

it's an obvious bait user.
but in addition, the empire's noble were intentionally put in as idiots to display the decay of goldenbaum dynasty at best. Their incompetent and divisioness is the proof of why their soldiers wanted to join Reignhart

You don't know fuckall about naval warfare or warfare in general, do you?

Some of the space battles are literally Napoleonic era infantry and naval tactics. They don't make a lick of sense but they look cool.

>All you have to steer in space is weaker supplemental thrusters located at intervals around the rest of the ship
What is thrust vectoring

Also the novels do a better job at explaining that the fleets are several light-hours apart from each other at the time.
They all expected Reinhard to hunker down and try to Testudo his way though their onslaught, but he decided to, like you say, slam on the accelerator and play wrecking ball.

>make 5 powerful ships
>get out maneuvered by 1000s of other ships.

Great job retard.

Maybe they can't?

It's not much a matter of being outmaneuvered, it's a matter of getting swarmed and BTFO, assuming you don't have escorts.

And there is no reason whatsoever to make huge ships. They'd be a logistical nightmare, expensive, slow, and have limited applications, something akin to cruisers would be much more cost effective.

I think he thought in the terms of other sci-fi universes and fails to see that ships here work differently.
Thor Hammer was one of a kind, and it seems they had a really fucking hard time building it, since they only made one (and planned to build two more IIRC).
There are verses that could annihilate a LotGH fleet with only a few ships without rsking harm, but that doesn't amtter when discussing battles in LotGH.

>why these Napoleonic war era tactics in my heavily Napoleonic era inspired anime

Adding to this: assuming that in LoGH there is no Minovsky fuckery (I don't remember being much if any, other than in the asteroid belt battle) a very cost effective approach would be building "modular" fleets composed of ultraspecialized ships, for example ships dedicated exclusively to sensors and EW, arsenal ships that are armed with heavy lasers meant to engage from long range, assault ships with relatively heavy armor and railguns, etc. Replacing losses would be much quicker than if you used retarded unicorns.

They're literally Napoleonic infantery battles with space ships.

They built Iserlohn, and that was their entire space fleet budget for almost 70 years.

They planned to build two more Iserlohn-sized battlestations over Phezzan to protect the capital after Reinhardt conquered it.

The only reason you don't remember a bunch of Minovsky-like ECM effects is that in the setting it's considered such a major part of modern space warfare they don't need to talk about it. ECM is so effective that ships have to be in dense formations just to be able to talk to one another.

I can buy that the battles in this show runs on its internal logic but i still can't suspend my disbelief at how the 3rd dimension doesn't seem to exist in space. Envelopment really shouldn't be a thing if it's two fleets of roughly the same size considering how thin you have to spread your ships.

I think your logic works for some fights but in this case as the other player expands the circle in all dimensions the other player mirrors it same shit

There was also Gaiesburg Fortress, which was the same size as Iserlohn, but its guns just weren't as powerful.
At least in the novels.

Yeah, I guess the Hammer made Iserlohn so uberexpensive.
Unfortunatelly we have no data on how much Geiersburg cost.

>They built Iserlohn, and that was their entire space fleet budget for almost 70 years.
I guess their fleets constantly getting fucked over by the FPA's mafia didn't help.

I'd wager that the rest of the fortress costed much more than the weapons system.

>we have no data on how much Geiersburg cost

A helluva lot more than they paid for it, that's for sure.

>I'd wager that the rest of the fortress costed much more than the weapons system.
I would wager otherwise.
Thor's Hammer seemed to be exceptional.

So did the system used by the faggot dressed like an ancient greek.

Aren't the fortresses like brand new planets? That's why I think the fortress itself would cost a lot more than just the armament systems, given you have to handle maintenance and all that on top of the initial costs.

God this show was terrible.

By the way, how are the books?

Retard alert

Completely overrated and not half as clever as it thinks it is. Any social are political points it tries to make are undermined by outright straw manning and constant hypocrisy from the characters. It's also embarrassingly obvious that Yang Wen-Li is Tanaka's own Mary Sue (they're even the same age). I've just read the third volume and I'm not sure if it was Yang who was summoned to that court of inquiry or Marine Todd.

Better or worse than the show then?

So are you saying that it's one of the few cases where the adaption is better than the source material? Also do they have any fluff about the technology?

Speaking of ship, anything interesting? and wtf that legendary Silence of the ship banned everywhere and there

Watch Zipang and laugh at how fucking retarded every faction is, especially the JSDF cucks.

Pls respond

Isn't Arslan similarly shallow? I don't understand why the author become so beloved.

The translation is shit, the japs have shit taste, or the adaption of LoGH managed to improve the source material?

>Aren't the fortresses like brand new planets?
Not with 90 km diameter. More like artificial asteroids.

Artificial gravity?

Big fish in a small pond. LoGH is puerile in a world of actual literature but in the land of high school thundered romcons it's Proust.

Try reading projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacewartactic.php

Yes, didn't you see all the walking people on the ships?

I meant to ask if Isherlon has 1G artificial gravity. Given how fucking big it is I imagine that maintaining the equipment for it must be a nightmare.

It makes sense if their laser turrets are fixed on the sides of the ship and can't be rotated to fire forward. Similar how sea ship canons were mounted.

How viable is Interstellar style artificial gravity using centripetal force?

Too bad all their main armament is forward firing.

why dont arm as a sphere then?

underrated post

Then they are strafing to avoid enemy lasers.

How often is "great literature" accurate literature?

Any autist can find factual/logical errors in almost any piece of literature.

Just how feasible is Romeo and Juliet?

The adaptation adds a fuckton of things, the books move at a breakneck pace compared to the show.

Watch Fafner for a 60km cloaking submarine island fortress powered by immortal ayy lmao.
Also what remains of NATO/UN/Slav is led by a nuke happy granny.
Oh and 60km whalesquid ayy lmao.