What's up with 90% of manga/anime having such shitty writing when it comes to romance? Everything needs to be emphasized and spelled out, so it's always incredibly unnatural and awkward. Characters have seizures over hand-holding when they're like 17 years old and can barely even comprehend the word "boyfriend/girlfriend" without having a mental breakdown.
Why is there not more of pic-related when it comes to romance?
>Why is there not more of pic-related when it comes to romance?
Why don't you just read more Adachi if that's what you like?
>What's up with 90% of manga/anime having such shitty writing when it comes to romance?
Please don't start threads with non-questions that are really just jabs at anime, it's a good way to generate shitposting and nothing else.
>Why is there not more of pic-related when it comes to romance?
Adachi alone has written like 50 manga that are all the same thing.
Adachi is good with interactions, but he reuses the same premise too often.
Off the top of my head, I can only think of Horimiya and Kaguya as recent romance that aren't awful. And Kaguya is basically a parody.
>japan
Shounen and Shoujo are drowned in tropes and I guess editors have too much power, as they'll always suggest what's tried and tested, usually turning into some triangle contest. Also seems to me many mangaka don't know how to write good characters, so as an extension, they can't write good romance. Various times, writers think writing romance means writing melodrama, which turns it into another shitfest. And when it comes to harem/triangles, I can't stress the following point hard enough. If you choose to make some girl the default winner from the outset, then ffs, make her the best girl. Don't go spending chapters upon chapters on building up different girls to the point where they seem better than the lead girl to the reader. That's a surefire way for arseblast all around.
Adachi is in a somewhat unique position that he can write couples with good chemistry and has enough pull from times of yore to write what he wants to, though yeah, as others said, Adachi usually sticks to the same formula. It's a good one though.
Amusingly enough, the most memorable anime romance to this day to me, is in Rahxephon. Holy fuck did the girl work her ass off to get her man and fuck it felt great when she succeeded.
I enjoy anime and manga but I'd like for some of the cliches to be less prominent. The "jab" shouldn't generate only shitposting since it's a valid complaint. Your everyday normal Japanese person doesn't have a meltdown over every small hint of romance in their lives. So it's unusual that so many characters in manga/anime do.
Definitely agree that so many mangaka know fuckall about writing. People forget that most mangaka are mainly artists, not writers. It's pretty hard to do both well, especially with the harsh schedule manga is produced at. What you usually get is some pretty art, an interesting idea, and awful execution.
Japan's obsession with purity.
>People forget that most mangaka are mainly artists, not writers
I don't know how relevant that is. Most writers are complete incompetents to begin with.
Well, the lack of good writers, regardless of whether they're also the artist, is very relevant to OPs question, why romance in manga and anime usually doesn't feel satisfying beyond "yay, muh waifu won!".
It's a different culture from yours.
So your answer to "Why do manga have bad writing?" is "the writers are bad"?
Sounds like a pretty straightforward answer. For a more in depth answer, see .
I'm not sure if it's as simple as that. Japanese culture is definitely different than American culture, but there are still inherent similarities. The average Japanese person doesn't act that much differently than an average Westerner in many regards.
japanese women aren't degenerate sluts like western ones and that is reflected in manga/anime characters, it is art reflecting life
>90% of manga/anime having such shitty writing when it comes to romance?
Why is 90% of manga/anime shit?
Adachi is a genius mangaka, whereas almost all other mangaka don't know how to write.
Uwagaki was pretty non shit.
Obviously it's both too general and too simplified to say that's all it is, but it plays a big part.
For example, the fact that they have a preference for writing innocent spaghetti monsters over confident, forward women isn't because they're all shit, it's because what they and their audience want to see is not what OP wants to see.
Damn good manga. The only complaint I can give about is that the MC was a little too bland for my taste. I feel that outside harems (which are shit anyway) an MC should be for more than self-inserting and actually be a thought out character.
But he wasn't horribly offensive or anything, and the overall story and payoff was well worth it, and he was cute with the girl.
>tfw the author went on to make a half decent edgefest manga but its scanlators dropped it
Hold me.
That's remind me how people call out Shinkai's works for reeking virgin smell. Why? Can anyone elaborate this?
I'm not familiar with romance genre but what's wrong with his work in romance aspect? And any sample of how romance done properly?
>the most memorable anime romance to this day to me, is in Rahxephon
>Your everyday normal Japanese person doesn't have a meltdown over every small hint of romance in their lives.
Have you never encountered a lovestruck highschooler in your life
teenagers do not take a calm, rational approach to romance. Especially their first romance. First romance teenagers take up quite a bit of romance manga.
I don't exactly disagree with you, most romance is shit. But I think it's less a matter of how old they are, and more about the fact that they have zero experience.
Yeah it is heavily exaggerated though.
I love Adachi. The characters all feel pretty realistic, and they all interact so naturally. Yeah, he uses the same type of setting too frequently, but the story is top notch each time. I wish Mix was up to date with scanlations.
SUP Sup Forums
U fagets still mad?
I really love that scene in H2 where Hiro confesses to Haruka in English. Too bad it was lost in translation.
Was rooting for Tsukasa so it's a win for me.
And the previous scene where Hiro threw some balls at the almost-rapist, so cool.
>Rahxephon
>most memorable
Lovely Complex nigger.
Try reading more Senien/Josei Romance
mynigga.jpg
You're definitely right that teens aren't always rational when it comes to love. But aside from the most awkward of teens, few teens would act as they do in anime/manga. And this goes the same for Japanese teens. They aren't some weird aberration of humankind; they'll take everything in stride fairly often as well.
Try reading Adachi like so many people have recommended. Cross Game is the most well known "modern" one (and it has a good anime adaptation too). Katsu! is a great read as well - the MC and girl act like a couple pretty much all the way through. Touch and H2 are classics, and they were incredibly popular in Japan.
There's a difference between acting irrational and acting like an alien with no concept of socialization.
Its fine if you like it, but don't act like anime/manga romance is natural.
I love RahXephon, but I've never been able to feel as happy about cake end as some anons, not when it came at the cost of best girl Megumi crying, which was sad, and Asahina dying, which was soul-rending.
The best Adachi confession is still the Rough ending.
Realistic romance never ends up the way I want it to.
I dont know i liked the uwagaki MC, i think they did a good job of generally making him a bland normal guy that actually could be kind of cool when in the right scenario. When he actually won the girl over by the end it felt justified.
Oh don't get me wrong, he didn't really drag the manga down or anything, it's just that the manga was actually pretty good so I just hold it to a higher standard. He's definitely a better protagonist than most of the other schlock that gets pumped out.
And agreed it felt justified.
The one no one heard, fuck me.
Best romance manga right here.
Who dies in this one? I haven't read it yet.
Its not like theres always a death during Adachi mangas. Sometimes they die before the series begins, e.g. Katsu, Rough, and Q&A.
And the answer is MC's real dad.
>Best romance manga
>cake doesn't even win
Rough had the rival guy having a near-fatal accident, though, that served some of the same purposes.
Also, does anyone know what Adachi's family situation was like? He seems to really like using stepfamilies, and I'm wondering if it's because of personal experiences or just that they're useful for dead-person-drama and inseki, both of which he likes.
I think Taiyou no Ie is a pretty solid non-Adachi romance.
Theres also a good one-shot (dont know the name) about a boy who tried to confess to an idol at his school, but got rejected by proxy through her best friend.
An already established relationship is boring and hard to write for I assume.
In a series with no written end in sight, I assume writers just like to play the same "they like eachother, but wont say it" gags endlessly, until they need to bust something out when their series gets cancelled.
1. Authors are all different, don't lazily lump them up by claiming "90% of anime/manga". Some are good at writing and some are shit at it.
2. Due to the nature of anime/manga and the context-dependent Japanese language, body language cues and subtle hints need to be exaggerated in picture to convey a point. You know why there are deformed expressions like "^_^" or ":3"? Because it helps convey what characters are thinking more clearly than ambiguous, neutral facial expressions.
3. Japan has an indirect, context-dependent culture which arose out of the nature of their indirect, context-dependent language. The whole idea behind a confession is it's supposed to display the power of emotion - someone feels so strongly it overwhelms their normal cultural etiquette. Confessions are a big deal in real life Japan despite their being common in manga, because in manga you need to exaggerate things to show a point or plot a course.
H2 had one of the best character deaths in all his works, second only to Wakaba. It's amazing how he can wring out so much emotion even if it's just a side character who died.
I remember reading somewhere that Touch's 2 main characters was based on his relationship with his brother, but don't quote me on that.
Jitsu wa watashi wa is actually a really good romance. The beginning may not seem to promise much, but the MC knows what he wants, and the confession comes early enough such that a fair chunk of chapters are spent with the couple actually being in a relationship.
>I remember reading somewhere that Touch's 2 main characters was based on his relationship with his brother, but don't quote me on that.
Huh, that'd be interesting. His brother became a mangaka before him, so I could see that dynamic being transplanted to baseball (with added death). I've also wondered if him writing Q&A, or even Bouken Shounen with all those aging perspectives on youth, had anything to do with his brother dying a few years before. That still wouldn't explain the fucking Q&A ending, unfortunately.
>but he reuses the same premise too often.
I pity you Adachi Mitsuru!
One thing i love about Adachi is that his male side characters actually matter throughout a series, whereas for way too many other series they stop mattering by the third episode because apparently they get in the way of waifushit.
This one?
i don't know the name though
To be fair, that's realistic from the point of view of Japanese youth. It's only unrealistic to non-Japanese people.
Keep in mind you are not the target audience.
So true. I notice this so often. MC almost always has that 'bro' that suddenly disappears a few episodes in for more screentime for haremshit.
You should read it. It's actually my favorite Adachi work along with Cross Game.
Katsu! is a nice change from other Adachi stories because the MC and main girl are basically a couple by the halfway point. In most of his other manga, we have to wait until the end to see the main couple get together after a bunch of drama with rivals. In Katsu!, you already know that the two like each other. So the rivals mainly serve as a way to get new interactions between the two depicting each other's jealousy.
Consider this.
How many western TV Shows have satisfying romances? Very few, really. The pacing, plot, and characters are all over the place, and it gets stupid, more stupid than any manga. Look at Friends.
Now compare that to Movie Romances. Book Romances. Those are done FAR better. They have proper progression and pacing and characters that make sense. There's a fundamental difference that makes these things apparent. And it comes to serialization.
Serial manga, comics, TV shows, etc, that are created and broadcast over a long period of time, have a simple goal. To tell a story for as long as possible so that they make a lot of money. Movies and books rather prefer to tell a quality story and get a large immediate audience, with no plans for the distant future.
Romance SERIALS get dragged out and extended beyond their natural life span, with stupid drama mixed in at nonsensical moments to extend the lifespan and keep viewers interested. It's essentially soap opera syndrome.
Just consider anime and manga. One shot manga, like Good Ending and Nisekoi, are quite good as one-shots, but once they get stretched out to fill a quota and extended as long as possible, the story falls apart. This also leads to a neat phenomenon, where long running manga actually become better romances with anime original endings, because the plot can wrap up more cleanly if there's no plans for a season 2. Kure-Nai is probably my favorite example.
Why can't we just have a long story about happy people in a fulfilling relationship, then? Well, because that's not interesting to read. Long Running manga where the couple pairs up early have to find new ways of keeping the audience. Like they said in the Tatami Galaxy, there's nothing more boring than a successful romance. Jitsu Wa, for example, periodically introduces new characters, elevates side characters, and pairs up everyone else in the series, with the main pair as a backdrop. But even that cannot continue indefinitely.
And note that anime movies tend to have satisfying romances quite often, from Satoshi Kon to Keit-Ai. It has less to do with the anime medium, and more to do with the means of production.
Taiyou no Ie ran on the nice family dynamic stuff and Mao being cute as fuck, but it definitely suffered from some unnecessary drama with the love triangles. It was still good, just could have benefited from some paring down.
> more screentime for haremshit
Why would you be watching a harem and expecting anything else?
I don't even understand what happened to Q&A. It ended just like that. Feels like it got axed or something.
It's because they're actual characters, with actual feelings and emotions. I remember at the end of Cross Game's vol. 1 where Akaishi was just standing there silently crying his heart out. You can feel really his love for Wakaba. I'm glad he got a good ending for himself.
Honey and Clover had good romance, but it had a lot of drama too.
Yeah, I dropped it way back because pretty much every guy in the manga was in love with the main girl despite her being plain as fuck.
When the younger brother was revealed to have a crush on her too I was like "Alright that's enough".
Definitely one of the biggest problems with most shoujos.
>Feels like it got axed or something.
Even that wouldn't really explain anything. I think Adachi just felt like fucking with everyone by pulling "it's all a dream" on a highschool romcom.
> pretty much every guy in the manga
Well, in fairness, it was just three including the main interest, who wasn't in love with her for most of the manga anyway. It was still a drag (especially when they already had the love triangle with the phone novel woman), but it's pretty tame in the big scheme of either shoujo or male-targeted harems.
I can't read it due to the fact that so many of the characters are in love with him. It's just a little too much like a harem for my tastes.
I think what helps alleviate the feeling of disgust is MC being pretty focused on who he actually likes and makes genuine steps to be with her.
IOW he isnt just another indecisive self-insert.
Plus Jitsu wa is comedy gold.
Plot
It is hilarious, which is why I got to the point that I did, but I just couldn't take it anymore.
The whole point of the romance genre is watching the couple get together
Actual relationships are quite mundane and thus don't make for good entertainment, hence why most romance stories end with the couple getting together and living "happily ever after"; if the story continues after they get together, then there has to be a conflict to keep it interesting so the audience doesn't get bored of it.
Eh, I read all of Fujiyama and loved the shit out of it, and that was basically "Cute couple does cute things: The Manga".
>How many western TV Shows have satisfying romances?
Most of them? They approach couples in a fundamentally different way to anime, in the sense that they give characters a little credit and don't write them to be painfully awkward and innocent. Even if the western romances aren't love stories for the ages, at least they progress at a fast pace.
Japan's obsession with purity renders them totally incapable of writing romance that isn't constantly hindered by autism. I'm sick to fucking death of shy teenagers who are scared of holding hands. I can't believe the concept of an indirect kiss even exists to the point it does in anime, it's an insult to anyone over age 13.
I always enjoyed the romance in Rough the most out of his works. That tsundere Romeo & Juliet starting point slowly turning to banter to attraction then love was really well executed. It was great seeing their mutual feelings change over time. Also had a really strong supplementary cast. As for the ending, I think the (yet) unheard recording is just for our sake to telegraph her choice across to us, before closing the story off. It's not like their relationship hinges on whether he hears the recording. Even better, as long as he's unsure, he'll head off into that final match, dead set on at least getting the swimming medal from the buttblasted rival, just in case she didn't choose him.
I don't think so. "Actual relationships" are deeper than you would think if they are "actual" and would make for good entertainment. Do you think relationships don't have conflict or something?
>western garbage is good romance
Opinion discarded.
H2 always annoyed me, as Adachi kept showing how good a fit Hikari and Hiro would be, to the point of being soul mates, yet didn't make it happen. Haruka and Hideo are nice enough, but the feeling that Hikari and Hiro should have ended up together never went away for me. Well, this being Adachiworld, I can always imagine that Haruka and Hideo got hit by japanese trucks after the ending.
thats y there a syphilis epidemic and the birth rates too low fuck off closed minded weeeabo btw i hate japan i just like some of its art but it couture is a closed minded shit hole confromist prick
Please stop typing like a moronic thirteen year old and refrain from lowering the quality of this board any further with your posts.
>at least they progress at a fast pace
This has pretty much nothing to do with the quality of a romance.
>taking the bait
fuck off i am a freeman slaver freelove and free the kid from there parents and government that are opressing btw i am 23 bitch
It might be easier to write an interesting story about love coming to fruition, but that doesn't mean that established relationships are inherently boring. It's usually easier if there's some sort of overarching plot and the romance is a subplot. This can allow for the romantic partner to be a strong supporting character while still having the main plot being driven at a different pace. But this doesn't happen often and a confession is treated as some sort of endgame bonus after tons of stupid misunderstandings throughout the main story.
i am just wondering do thay use the same tropes in gay manga
My impression is that the vast majority of gayshit are short as hell, so probably not.
For me, an important part of am enjoyable romance story is that I want to root for the designated couple to get together. Something that annoys the heck out of me in most shounen romcoms is that due to the attempt to stretch things out, the author adds various girls to the mix and starts building them up so much that at some point they appear to be a better fit than the main heroine. Their love is just as pure and full of sacrifice as the main girls, on top of maybe having a more interesting or more easygoing personality or maybe even a bigger sob story than main girl. After that, you suddenly feel you're railroaded into main girl winning, as if she didn't properly "earn" her win, since the rival is just as good, if not better. Turns a lot of those stories into a rather frustrating read.
thank u for ancering
>have the romance be a subplot
But, it would't be a romance anime then would it? It would be a [main plot subject] anime with romance.
Good romance doesn't need the characters to be "progressing" fast or being physically intimate, user. Half this thread is praise for a man who almost never has his main couple confess before the last two or three chapters of his series, if that (and those series are sometimes 20+ volumes long).
How about instead of a romantic comedy, we do a comedy with romance
Because, truthfully, there isn't a whole lot to romance. In the past you just got married off to whoever. A little closer to the persent and you'd go on a couple of dates and then get married. Closer yet you'd go on a couple of dates, have sex, start a relationship, and then get married soon afterwards. Nowadays people don't really date they mostly just fuck.
>. In the past you just got married off to whoever
That didn't stop romance being a main genre of literature since forever though.
What the fuck does this simplified-history-of-real-life-romance have to do with fiction?
That was some damn good shit, thanks user.
Well, fiction is usually interesting because it reflects some real thing that is important to a lot of people. If that thing is pretty fucking simple then you don't have a lot to work with. A way to make it more interesting is to make the characters pretty goddamn stupid.
Like in real life the way romances work is that two people go around a bunch of different social settings (whether this be a physical location or on the internet or whatever) looking for people that catch their eye. If they both catch each others eye then they engage each other and escalate to something sexual typically. That's how 99% of romances work out but it isn't very interesting.
So to make a romance story interesting you gotta make the characters fucking retards.
Making the characters mentally and socially challenged might be easier for the author, but it does not often make a romance good or interesting. The whole point is why do people accept such shit tier writing when it's definitely possible to do better.
>Like in real life the way romances work is that two people go around a bunch of different social settings (whether this be a physical location or on the internet or whatever) looking for people that catch their eye. If they both catch each others eye then they engage each other and escalate to something sexual typically. That's how 99% of romances work out but it isn't very interesting.
Literally all you just described is people meeting and talking and "escalating" to sexual shit. That's vague as fuck, I don't see how it can't be interesting. Every single human interaction can be boiled down to something that simple if you really want to.
>The whole point is why do people accept such shit tier writing when it's definitely possible to do better.
What sort of a question even is that? I thought everyone above the age of 13 realized that successful/popular shit is no guarantee whatsoever of writing quality.
Virtually 90% of everything is shitty, romance stories are no different. You just have to be content to sift through the bad and try to find the good.