In Japan, there is a way to criticize some romance novel/manga/anime that reflect the author's lack of real experience as "smell like virgin". Do people need real experience to write a romance? Can we really identify the author's virginity from their works? And how are non-virgin's romance different from the virgin's ones?
Pic related: was labelled the eternal virgin (even he married and have one daughter)
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>Do people need real experience to write a romance?
No.
>Can we really identify the author's virginity from their works? And how are non-virgin's romance different from the virgin's ones?
In media governed by dead cliches like LNs and manga, no.
It's the same as with science fiction.
If you don't do your research, and if things develop too conveniently in unsound ways, people are going to notice.
Experience in the romance does not require you to lose your virginity.
>labelled the eternal virgin (even he married and have one daughter)
At that point the word has lost all meaning.
It's simply easier to call a virgin on their bullshit. Most people don't have the experience to criticise how dropping a colony on Australia might or might not work, but the wizard's words are obvious.
Internal consistency is all that really matters in Sci-fi. Most of the greatest Sci-fi novels of all time (Book of the New Sun, Fahrenheit 451, At the Mountain of Madness) have little to no base in science, especially where the plot is concerned.
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And people eat his works up anyway. People can say what they want, they'll still swallow the loads from his eternal virgin cock.
Maybe they like virgin works better.
They'll be more pure hearted and innocent.
Unless they're the /r9k/ kind of virgin.
I don't want to see or read about real romance. I will never have real romance, so I might as well enjoy the fantasy of an idealized romance that does not exist.
No, realism doesn't matter at all.
Anime is fiction and the only thing that matter is that people enjoy it.
No matter how realistic romance is the above will be shit if it's not enjoyable. No matter how unrealistic the romance is, some is good just because it's enjoyable.
Books are mass-produced in factories, the authors never come near them.
There is no way you could smell them.
Idiot.
>do people need real experience to write a romance
Not necessarily, but it's not a simple "no" either. Scientifically speaking, a human being cannot empathize with emotions they have not themselves experienced, so writing about emotions you haven't experienced is always going to lack authenticity. That being said, you can always perform research, which is a critical part of writing anything that many authors pretty much never do. However, even with research, you'll just be presenting someone else's ideas on love, which is probably fine since everyone seems to have a slightly different definition anyway. Regardless, you'll never please the cynics, so it doesn't really matter how "authentic" it is or isn't, since a bunch of self-presumed experts and authorities are going to tell you your plot isn't realistic no matter what.
>can we really identify the author's virginity from their works
Probably not. People can always lie while they write. Even a person who has had sex can purposely write inaccurate descriptions or information, since it is not supposed to be the author but the characters who are presenting the story.
>how are non-virgin romance different from virgin one's
Arguably only sensation of authenticity, but that is incredibly subjective because, again, everyone has different experiences and definitions.
If you actually believe science fiction is realistic in the slightest and not just delusional fuel for self insert lore, you are the one with the brain problem here.
Sci fi lore also don't have consistency if you actually take time to judge it, which you don't if you actually believe any to be consistent.
>Do people need real experience to write a romance?
To write a good one, yes. Although you could probably bullshit a serviceable series and no one would notice.
You are the /lit/ equivalent of "I've watched like 20 animes".
I want to laugh at these poor fucks but I simply can't bring myself to do it.
No one deserves to be unloved. Well maybe trash in the venue of Gecko or Bateman deserves it, but no human being should live without love. That is all.
>Do people need real experience to write a romance?
No but they need real experience with other people. See, thar's why a lot of manga and anime end when the guy/girl get the love interest. Because the author doesn't know what comes next. So, what it looked like a romantic story is just the pursuing of an object or a goal and not a relationship with other human being.
Oh. That's why sometimes I only get a hollowed image when I imagine an anime couples after they really become a couple.
>mfw I finally get enlightened
I wish there were more shows where the MC finally gets the girl he was chasing then they end up breaking up because he sees her for what she really is
>what she really is
A woman?
>Because the author doesn't know what comes next.
Fucking this. I'm going to write my own LN about the adventures of an already established couple. Isekai too.
You can't emulate the LN writing style in English.
What's so special about it?
It manages to be both pretentious and cheap at the same time.
Nice argument, too bad that your favorite """adult""" genre is outed as the self insert garbage it is.
you make it seem like that's hard to do.
>TF1
Nice to see some frenchfags here
You mean, replacing internal fulfullment with an external object? Like in everything else wrong with mankind?
Watch me.
That sound intriguing.
Your last sentence answer your question. "Stink like virgin" isn't to be taken litterally. It means that the story show a very romantic and pure love wich goes at odds with real relationships, hence the "virgin" part since you could assume that this kind of story has to be written this way because of the author's lack of experience even though it can be a conscious choice.
5cm per seconds and Hoshi no Koe would be the more realistic romances, while Your Name and Garden of Words are the more idealistic ones. It all comes down to what you like.
And then you have authors with poor social experiences who can't write realistic character interactions in their shitty LN and manga. But that's another subject.
All stories, including those in anime, are fairly abstracted ideals. The real world and it's workings has always been only tangentially related to the stories we tell, the kernel of truth in the fiction of a good story. In that sense no, one doesn't have to have been in a romance to write it.
Why should we care what Japan thinks? I don't.
>See, thar's why a lot of manga and anime end when the guy/girl get the love interest.
That's not limited to anime/manga and the only reason to continue after this point is to milk the series
>story continues
>"We've been together for six months and it's like we never got together!"
Why bother?
I guess the issue there is that to continue the story, you need another goal to work towards, or another conflict to overcome, otherwise you don't have a story.
What you say is true because we see so many stories where the writer just does the easy thing and makes the goal/conflict about "the guy/girl needs to win the heart of the guy/girl so they can be together". After that, you need to put in actual thought and structure your story to accomodate the story which comes after they get the love interest, and create a premise, an interesting scenario which will interest readers. And probably more importantly when it comes to LNs, make money. That's harder to do than just making a simple, dime-a-dozen romance story.
That's just how I see it from a writing point of view, I don't know how true it really is.
Your thing about experience in a relationship to know what comes next is probably correct.
>Do people need real experience to write a romance
No
>Can we really identify the author's virginity from their works?
Not at all, read some romance written by older women who have husbands and you will see that they are just as dreamy, pure and unrealistic as something written by a virgin. The perfect prince charming who is both sexy, not an asshole and falls in love with the shy, not that pretty, average looking girl you always see in female romance doesn't exist and is just as much of a wishfullfillment as the average anime waifu made to attract the attention of virgin otakus/nerds.
>And how are non-virgin's romance different from the virgin's ones?
It's not, everyone likes to dream about the perfect romance that is unrealisitc and something they will never get in real life, most romance is that way. Doesn't matter if you're a virgin or not.
>See, thar's why a lot of manga and anime end when the guy/girl get the love interest.
But that's not isolted to anime/manga, it's exactly the same in western romance, both modern and shit from ancient times and medieval times. Many Shakespear stories end with the guy getting the girl and then the story just ends. Why? Because the rest is boring, and people want to dream, they want to read about the happy ending with the guy and girl getting together, they don't want t oread about them having several children, one of the a misscarriage and another dying because of plague, and then both of them arguing about the economy and bills.
>everything i don't like is self insert
this isn't reddit, kid.
>That's just how I see it from a writing point of view, I don't know how true it really is.
No I have had this same sentiment. The failing for most romance stories, not exclusive to anime, is that they try and make "get the girl/guy" the only aspect to the story. It's why most stories just keep the main pairing unrequited until the very end. Otherwise they would have to either end the story because it was too simple to begin with, or they have to keep injecting more relationship drama because that's the only vector they worked in.
>was labelled the eternal virgin
Why? His romance is more realistic than the average anime
incredibly wrong.
>Sci fi lore also don't have consistency
Oh the bullshit you speak. Trying to generalize an entire genre under your nonsense.
This is a thread about chink cartoons, that's why I only talked about it but yes, I think other media and genres use the same formula. They sell the interest of pursuing something (love) as it is some merch but don't explore the consequences after that.
I think having family, friends or mere acquaintances and a little of ability to observe them and reflect about them can give you enough to write about human relations and then about romance. I think the concept of love and romance has been missused a lot, that's why getting into a relationship, and having children seem the only goals. Then you have young people and adults realizing that those things are not a happy ending but just a start to a life that is not had been explored by the media they used to feed themselves. The result is sometimes fear, boredom, and even people splitting to start again the same cycle of just wanting something but never looking far beyond the point when they actually get it.
So I suppose the solution is to write a story that doesn't solely rely on that aspect of romance to carry its plot.
Now that I think about it, that seems to be a kind of universal law.
Media, wherever it's shows or movies, which label themselves as pure comedy generally tend to suck compared to other works of another genre which just so happen to heavily incorporape comedy.
Same thing with horror to an extent, I feel, but I wouldn't know as much about that.
And it looks like we can say the same thing about romance too.
In fiction, it's a good thing not to tie yourself down to a single genre, and its cliches and failings. Branch out, mix and experiment with your writing, seems to be the moral of the story I'm getting here.
>So I suppose the solution is to write a story that doesn't solely rely on that aspect of romance to carry its plot.
Well yeah, but even then it's not just mixing genres hence why Rom-coms can be just as bland as anything you would classify as a pure romance.
What's important is to have multiple goals or threads to your plot. Looking at one of my favorite romance right now, Jitsu wa watashi wa, the main goal is for MC to be with his dumb vampire waif. But on top of that is the idea that humans and supernatural creatures shouldn't be together and them trying to keep her status a secret.
Then you have the rest of the cast which gets a lot of focus meaning that there are entire sub-arcs where the MC isn't important and instead it's someone else. The story has consistent themes behind all the romantic groupings, but the execution can be different for each one so it can remain interesting to read.
That kind of freedom means the author can tell a lot of different stories without having to shoehorn the main plot into every single chapter.
>I think having family, friends or mere acquaintances and a little of ability to observe them and reflect about them can give you enough to write about human relations and then about romance. I think the concept of love and romance has been missused a lot, that's why getting into a relationship, and having children seem the only goals. Then you have young people and adults realizing that those things are not a happy ending but just a start to a life that is not had been explored by the media they used to feed themselves. The result is sometimes fear, boredom, and even people splitting to start again the same cycle of just wanting something but never looking far beyond the point when they actually get it.
Good point. I think it's another one of those things where media in general kind of does a really poor job of representing it, leading to people setting up expectations which reality is going to dash pretty quickly, especially if it's taken in at a formative age and so on.
Maybe because his works are too pure.
IIRC, he was recently criticized for not having zero fun romance experience in his highschool time, so that he can write the ideal one. Surprisingly, Shinkai got mad and react to this as a personal attack on tweeter. That's might be one more of reasons why nips give him the eternal virgin nickname.
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>Well yeah, but even then it's not just mixing genres hence why Rom-coms can be just as bland as anything you would classify as a pure romance.
True. Though at this point rom-coms feel like their own solidly established genre with all the same cliches. I'm sure good, unique rom-coms exist, but I haven't exactly seen them, I suppose, and it feels like pretty much most of them are just as cut-and-paste generic. Like instead of an interesting twist or fusion, they just slice sections of romance and comedy, then slot the blocks of each together neatly to make the script. As opposed to blending the two elements well, like say, Hot Fuzz with action and comedy.
And I never got into reading Jitsu Wa, but after what you've said there, I'll probably end up picking it up to see what you mean.
Looks like a case of showing the benefits of fleshing out a story. Rather than focus on just two characters and their romance, you can flesh out the world around them to give them other objectives, or other characters and their troubles which can help to strenghten the theming of the story.
It seems pretty basic when I just say it like that, but evidently it doesn't seem to be the norm when it comes to romance manga/anime/LNs and so on.
It's more because an actual relationship is boring as fuck, long periods of boring contentment interspersed with usually pointless quarraling. So unless you switch genres to slice of life, or force drama there's usually not much to show besides brief snippets of landmark events, and those can usually be covered in an epilogue.
He was cute, what happened?
I can see some truth in that, but I wish in series that are not primarily romance we could get couples coming together a bit earlier than the last minute. Even something like Busou Renkin has the characters first kiss a couple of episodes before the end, which is a nice change of pace.
Ore monogatari is a nice try about this topic of romantic relationships. I remember I was like 15 when I watched Kare kano, and then I spoiler myself and was mad because I realized I didn't want to know what happened with the couple after they became adults.
>Do people need real experience to write a romance? Can we really identify the author's virginity from their works? And how are non-virgin's romance different from the virgin's ones?
No. People who judge others like this are retarded degenerates.
>real experience
>romance
In western art, realism and romanticism are two words used to describe concepts that are polar opposites of one another.
The thing is that these "virgins" can at least capture one of them. Relationships as depicted by most American TV shows capture neither.
A chinese webnovel I read just throwing out the theory "Everything is information and computed by mathematical equations" then explain all the shit like parallel worlds, gods, magics etc. Working great so far.
Have a (You) for the second half of that post, it was nice.
>zero fun romance experience
Do you mean that he had a shitty romance experience in high school instead? Or no romance at all?
I agree with you but there is still some difference between hard Sci-fi and soft. And some people are just "pseudo intellectuals", snobs, who lurks on sites like >projectrho.com
and who trying their hardest to look smart and criticize everything around
Romances and Bromances are more interesting to watch than the chase.
>"Nothing worse and boring than story of happy family life".
I don't remember where is from, but this is so much
I think the chase itself is the most boring thing, I'd rather watch two characters I really like interact in fun ways and then knowing they will keep interacting that way for the rest of their lives with added lovey-doveyness. So, pretty much . Best buds who happen to love each other have the best chemistry.
>Bromances
I actually love bromances. They are really comfy.
I think that guy meant that Shinkai probably had no bad romantic experience in high school, explaining why he made a movie with an idealized romance. Wich is stupid, to me it just sounds like that guy is jelly that Shinkai has been happily married for years now.
> I'd rather watch two characters I really like interact in fun ways and then knowing they will keep interacting that way for the rest of their lives with added lovey-doveyness.
I'd rather not, Oremonogatari is a good example of that. It was boring when it was just the 2 MC being lovey dovey. A lot of viewers have said it should have ended at ep3.
Only watched the first episode of Oremonogatari, I thought the major complaint was its gags just got too repetitive. I think it can be done right but then again I prefer romance as a background thing to cooler shit and adventures.
nothing that shinkai does is realistic. nothing.
the romances are always very idealized. shinkai thinks he's shakeaspeare or some shit like that.
>shinkai thinks he's shakeaspeare or some shit like that
I'm very sure you haven't a clue who you're actually talking about.