The phenomen of Baltic people

Isn't it just amazing that Lithuanians created the biggest country in the pre-colonial Europe?

But why they didn't support Piłsudski at 1918-1922?

let's talk about it and about different /baltic/ things

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=0q569DJAn0c
ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bятcкиe_гoвopы
ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Вятские_говоры
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Russian_nation#20th_century
youtube.com/watch?v=Ic_-RbgY3Vw
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-sector_theory
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

inb4 Belarussians are the true Lithuanians, not the Żmudzins

bump

>But why they didn't support Piłsudski at 1918-1922?
Because they weren't, you know, poles?

wat

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i nikt tu nie postuje chociaż to naprawdę jest ciekawy temat

I was in Nieswiż

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Because Piłsudski backstabbed them by taking Vilnius from them.

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...

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jest informacja że nawet obok Moskwy mieszkało plemie baltyjskie

jeden Litwin pisał że oni nawet w XVIII stoleci miali swiadomosc ale potem sie assymirowali

no nie wiem czy to prawda czy nie

but they literally were the first who betrayed commies.

Not like it matters, Poland kept expanding itself by invading Lithuania, Belarus and Ukraine, gaining more land in return.

da!

Piłsudski was Lithuanian himself.

He was born in Lithuania, but his family was Polish.

What? ... He blamed Lithuania for being allied with Commies so that he could take over Lithuanian territories without the international community dildoing his anus.
When in fact, Lithuanians were fighting the soviets at the time.
He also plotted coups with poles living in Lithuania, but those didn't work out too well, because Lithuanians found out.

More like probably a puppet injected into Lithuania for later use.
Didn't even have a Lithuanian last name, KEK

*commies
brain-farted.

we are the true WE WUZ's

The Answer is simple My concerned Russian friend (russians are always concerned about post soviet countries)

Poland simply run out of polonizing vampires. You can see one in this warning vid from Lithuanian state tv:
youtube.com/watch?v=0q569DJAn0c

Nowdays Lithuanians to show us how much Alpha they are, they oppress our minority and keep saying "fck polish f-16, we don't want Poles to protect our lands from Ruskies""Fuck Pol-Lit-Ukr army brigade, Poles tricked us into this project"


The best thing Poles could do is to apologize once again to Lithuanians (for the 1553rd time) and than simply stop talking to Lithuania. They don't want to have anything to do with us.

Bilingual naming of streets and diacritical name spelling are a thing now... how old is this data?
Also, I like how you didn't mark down possibly the most important aspect: "Participation in political and social life" into your highlights there, my friend ;)
Thing is, we even have a Polish party in our parliament.

The Lithuanians probably didn't support him then because they'd just secured a treaty with the Soviets, making Lithuania decently sized.
What's the point in fighting if your enemy has given in to your demands for peace?

prove it. I like the Belarussian language (but I think some things in it should be changed) but seriously hate zmagars

post-soviet freaks.

WE WUZ BALTIC MASTER RACE N SHEEEEEET

>Isn't it just amazing that Lithuanians created the biggest country in the pre-colonial Europe?
What are you fucking retarded? How is it bigger than Rome or Frankish Empire?
And most of GDL was just a bunch of steppes depopulated by Mongols. That's how they were able to get all this land in the first place.
Even Rus' was bigger, not as centralized though.

What do you expect us to do? To force Lithuanian minority to create a political party? Im pretty sure that if they felt like they are not threat well they would have created one already.

>Polish party in our parliament.
Well i didn't vote for them, neither did any other Pole living in Poland.
Meaby some Lithuanians looked at how fast is lithuanian population decreasing and said, hey, meaby hating Poles is a bad thing, meaby we should make friends with them and vote some Polish minority to make this friendship become true.

yes, but he could help them to rebuild Great Lithuania

but they just didn't stay with him

I seriously can't understand their's logic

because this is a nation which obiviously has a big passionarity

they used to have the biggest european state

honestly they make a concept "from sea to sea"

and they ruined USSR later

it shows how they can be relevant

but they didn't help to rebuild II RP

why?

I meant the middle agges

also Rus' was east romance and orthodox

Lithuania was secular

We
Wuz
Defenders
Of
Europa
From
Golden
Hoards

Lithuania stayed a lot longer than the Kievlan Rus'

also I can understand why it troggers you, because the modern ukrainian nationalist concept is neo-Rus' + germanophilia and nazism.

But Lithuanian concept is stronger, this is why you are trying to influence on Belarus and support their's pseudolithuanian ideology

WE WUZ KANGS N SHEEET.
Expanding to all of this land and taking it from the Mongols was stupid desu and is what led to our downfall. Lithuanians never had the population to control all of that territory or to defend it. They were 10% of the population, the other 90% where basically all Slavs closer to Russians. Naturally they sided with moscovites. After 60 years of war with moscovites and trying to destroy Moscow, we had no men left while Russians were completely fine. This led to allying with Poland. Poland also had a larger population, overtime they put their own people into positions of power and cucked us. It's sad story. The greatest achievement of all the surviving Baltic tribes is staying alive while wedged in between Germans, Nords, and Slavs. Balts never had the population numbers to seriously compete for any serious period of time, but we still kept our identity and that's why we are genetically different from those groups to this day.

>I meant the middle agges
Francia and Rus' existed during Middle Ages.
>also Rus' was east romance and orthodox
So?
>Lithuania was secular
No, it wasn't.

Piłsudski's dream always was rebuilding PLC/Intermarium
I don't know much about what exacly happened there with Vilnus but i belive its just a result of D&C by russians. (the collapse of plc is partialy russian d&c result, they made for example ukrainian cossacks chimp out on us instead of join us with all the rights)
So as i was saying, if i were to guess what happened is that Russians woke up ultranationalistic sentiments in Lithuanian population and made them want to separate from Piłsudski's plan.
Piłsudski than decided he will do this with force if he can't do it peacefully.

That is my guess.

Whatever union I join
I must also ruin it

If the Baltic tribes united and formed a similar group to slavs or germanics, history could have been different, but that's just idle speculation.

the concept of one, identical, ancient group of Rus people is just a soviet propaganda.

The Russian Empire officially regarded Ukrainians, Russians and Belarusians as Little, Great and White Russians, which, according to the theory officially accepted in the Imperial Russia, belonged to a single Russian nation, the descendants of the people of the Rus'.[citation needed]

If you guys would have asked ethnic belarussians or ukrainians on this mythical "ancient rus people" you will clearly see that thats just a bullshit.

Also native population of some parts of Moscow's Oblast was baltic

one Lithuanian even wrote that they were assimilated only at XVIII century, but I don't know is it truth or not

but sounds really interesting

As an independent state GDL didn't stay longer than Rus'. And modern Lithuania can be considered a successor of GDL same way as Russia, Ukraine, Belarus are successors of Rus'.
And I'm not a khokhol.

the most interesting thing that east slavs are Ukrainians and some parts of Belarussians

Russians are WEST slavs

some dialects of Russian are phonetically closer to Polish rather to the standart language and it's not even a trolling

Short answer to everything: we hate poles, poles hates us

>t. moroz
you are falling for muh jobani lenkai meme that is alive because there is so much cocky and stupid Lithuanian youth.

it is not soviet propaganda, soviets partitioned russians and created 3 states

united russian nation is much older and it has roots in russian principalities that were united. unity was broken by mongol invasion.

i don't know much about this lithuania-moscow situation but i know that the russians that live in present day eastern ukraine as well as present day eastern Belarus are just a result of resettlements just like israelis are said to do with Palestinians.

Im not saying that Russians are bad or unique for doing this strategical resettling of citzens because pretty much most of big countries does this but i think that people should be more aware of this fact in future in case there will be a conflict in Belarus.

>some dialects of Russian are phonetically closer to Polish rather to the standart language and it's not even a trolling
Link me some studies, very interested

Modern Lithuanian nationalism is based on anti-polonism.
Disgusting.

It's anti-everything that isn't sucking American cock.

not falling for anything just telling the truth

Only in Russian

ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bятcкиe_гoвopы

It's more of a being obedient slave to both the Kraut and the Americon

>In the Vologda region, final hard /ɫ/ is replaced by a semivowel /w~u̯/.

the same as in Polish

Fixed url:
ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Вятские_говоры
Because Sup Forums replaces cyrillic letters like a e o y p c H with latin

we don't hate Lithuanians, we are just losing our patience. Everything we were doing in recent decades was making up for our mistakes. But the more aggresive Lithuanians become towards Poles overtime, the more voices in Poland rise saying that we should just forget about Baltic states because they are not the same people that used to be Proud Lithuanians, the rightfull succesors of the PLC.

If you have studied some geopolitical aspects of for example protecting Baltic States from Russians, you would simply know that Poland is the only one you can count on.
Even if USA was going to help Baltic states, they would have to march through Germany and Poland.

Tell me, how long would it take Americans to get to the Pol-Lith borderlands?
Probably not faster than 3-4 weeks.
Can Lithuania protect itself for so long? You guys don't even have proper strategy with other baltic states...

no, it is propaganda all the way. Separating occupied land with foreign population doesn't make this people exacly the same people like russians. For example lets look at this statements:

1) there are around 785,000 ethnic Russians in Belarus, which accounts for approximately 8.3 percent of the population of Belarus.[1]

2) Many Russian-Belarusians are descendants of people who migrated to Belarus during the Soviet times, as technical specialists and military or administrative personnel.[citation needed] There is also a minor group of Old Believers who settled in Belarus in the Middle Ages.[citation needed]
>middle ages = resettlements after the PLC vs Ukrainian Cossacks war = you have a movie about this called "With fire and Sword"

3) More Russian speakers appeared in northern, central and eastern Ukrainian territories during the late 17th century, following the Cossack Rebellion led by Bohdan Khmelnytsky

4) Joseph Stalin identified several obstacles in implementing the national program of the party. Those were the "dominant-nation chauvinism", "economic and cultural inequality" of the nationalities and the "survivals of nationalism among a number of nations which have borne the heavy yoke of national oppression".[11]

5) In 1933 Stalin declared that local nationalism was the main threat to Soviet unity.[6] Consequently, many changes introduced during the Ukrainization period were reversed: Russian language schools, libraries and newspapers were restored and even increased in number. Changes were brought territorially as well, forcing the Ukrainian SSR to cede some territories to the RSFSR. Thousands of ethnic Ukrainians were deported to the far east of the Soviet Union, numerous villages with Ukrainian majority were eliminated with Holodomor, while remaining Ukrainians were subjected to discrimination.[13][14] During this period parents in the Ukrainian SSR could choose to send their children whose native language was not Ukrainian to schools with Russian as the primary language of instruction.

6) There was this part of rusification and "soviet people" who were purged out of their national identity and were settled in eastern Ukraine


But enough of this wall of text

>You guys don't even have proper strategy with other baltic states...
We do what we did last time - hold hands and sing so terribly that russians will have no other choice but to give in to the superior Lithuanian might and terrible vocals.

Is a political party the only thing that goes into that statistic?

Right, you didn't vote for them. They were voted on by Poles and Lithuanians living here. Right as we are "oppressing" our polish minority.

Honestly found that video from the 16yo or so YT comedy clip maker slightly funny, I must admit. Though that's just my sense of humor.

Fertility rate LT: 1.63 per woman
Fertility rate PL: 1.32 per woman
Or are you referring to migrants that leave to make money and send it back here / save up so they could build a house here for their retirement?
Anyhow, don't worry. We'll make sure your population doesn't go extinct, because the Poles living here actually have decent birth rates and they choose to be here :)

Your posts look half trollish and half serious though, so it's kind of hard to tell...
Maybe it's just my Polish-people-hating-even-though-I-have-a-Polish-girlfriend-here-Lithuanian-ass that just doesn't get it.

Where is this hate you speak of, polak? Any examples? Or was that statement as serious as that youtube video?

>PIC RELATED. Oh, you sweet, lovely, diplomatic snuggle-bunnies :)

was meant for you, user:
#misclick

>the concept of one, identical, ancient group of Rus people is just a soviet propaganda.
That's not a soviet concept. And nobody is saying they were completely identical. Obviously it was a bunch of East Slavic tribes conquered and ruled by Varangians(Vikings). And many nations began like that, you know? A bunch of tribes united in one nation. It's just that Rus' wasn't able to complete this process because of devastating Mongol invasion that split South and North Rus'.
And both Ukrainians and Belarusians used to call themselves "Rus'kyi" or "Rusyn" for centuries after the fall of Rus'. "Ukrainian" and "Belarusian" is more of a recent phenomen.

you are 100% wrong

USSR divided russians into ukrainiansm russians and belarussians to make mess.

russians were united before mongols, also they were reunited in times of russian empire, but very slowly, because former polish and austrian parts were mongrelised

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Russian_nation#20th_century
The early Bolsheviks rejected any conception of a triune Russian people, which they saw as an attribute of tsarism, bourgeois nationalism, and the hostile White movement.[citation needed] Later, they tried to gain the sympathies of nationally oriented groups by recognizing Ukrainians and Belarusians as separate peoples. In the 1920s, the Bolsheviks introduced the policy of Korenizatsiya in the non-Russian Soviet republics, and instituted campaigns of Ukrainization and Belarusization in hopes of diluting conservative imperial spirit among Eastern Slavs, and in turn introduce revolutionary internationalism.

ussr and bolsheviks rejected united russian nation. they created meme countries and told that some of them are opressed. then they created memes to distract people from accumulation of money.

main concern of bolshevics was very materialistc

they cared only about ammount of value that person has.

let me help you with a pic

And if you have studied history at all, you know that we can probably only trust you to help protect "Wilno" ;)

>in hopes of diluting conservative imperial spirit among Eastern Slavs, and in turn introduce revolutionary internationalism.

they genocided all conservatives because conservative imperial spirited russians fucking HAD MONEY, skills and knowledge

bolsheviks wanted to extract all possible VALUE from that people to make them weak and panthetic "iberals"

so they created diversity before it became a mainstream LOL

tahts why they created meme countries

just using this thread as a quick reminder that if not for Soviet Union lithuanians (and other balts) would still live in medieval tier shithole villages without hospitals (that it if Nazis haven't genocided and colonized their lands already) and Poland would still be occupying their capital

come closer so I can bash your commie skull better

>le investment wouldn't have happened without le communism
Fuck off commie cuck, Baltics had decent GDP before the Soviet Union. Someone post the stats as I don't have them on hand.
But you are right about the greedy eternal poles.

I will let Lithuanians bash yours for trying to steal their capital.

My point is that if you look at the map attached you will clearly see, first GDL than PLC etc, all this time this people were separated from Muscowitz, Im not saying they have 100% PLC related identity, They have their own identity the way for example Lithuania has and every other subgroup of PLC has.

They are very different people from the Russian Russians.

and all this talking about "woooo eastern ukraine are russians, woooo whole belarus is russians, we must annex them because they are russian russians" is an utter bullshit.

it is true, many ethnic russians in fact live in eastern parts of this countries but in both cases they are just 8-12% of the population.

KEK have you been here(Lithuania) recently and seen how much things have improved in the past 25 years?
Average Russian town vs average Lithuanian town:
youtube.com/watch?v=Ic_-RbgY3Vw

All those shit tier "hospitals" have been replaced by now.

If there is one thing that unites us, is our hatred for commies

except Russia during CCCP was stealing all the wealth. Recently documents from Estonian Bank were released showing that Russia was literaly taking 75% of their GDP. and Russia did this to every single soviet country.

2) Russians INVADED Poland, they killed our elites/inteligencja. Russians are just as guilty as Nazis. They divided all the former PLC nations.

ussr stole from latvia
fuck them, communism=judaism

they were separated by mongols, russians liberated all this lands from mongols and PLC, population increased 20 times. it was already russian population.

population in ukraine in 17 century after civil war between different groups of cossacks was only 2 mln people, balarussia was even smaller, ukraine has nothing common with rus and very small in common with people who lived before 17 century, cossacks and russians removed all poles, nommands and other people from ukraine and belarus. you are posting the map of 16 century. it is a WILD field and forest with no people LOL in the time.

it is same as to tell that louisiana is french because there was a french outpost with 3 soldiers in remote swamp

ussr separated russians again with purpose to destroy conservative imperial spirit, because it didnt allow jews to dominate people financially. it is very hard to enslave conservative, it is easier to kill him

ah yes i've seen this argument
you realize european union is destroying eastern europe economically right? They are giving you money in exchange that you destroy your industry.
You are giving more than you are receiving.
1. Large amount of directives from EU are created in a way that projects funded by it can only be implemented by German companies in EE countries (like lithuania or poland).
2. Those projects also have to be partially funded by EE countries.
3. You cannot use that money for anything that can work as an investment. So you can forget about industry.
Basically european union is funding eastern europies countries in order to destroy your industry and competition for western corporations. Create debt, stop agriculture. Same thing in every eastern euro country that joined european union

>Russians liberated it from Mongols
Top kek. What were Russians doing from 1200 - 1400 while mongols sat on the land? Kys.

this is all true, there are even data on how much we lose. From every 1 euro given by EU to V4 countries, 1,25 euro was going back to Germany.

But don't forget 2 things:
- EU is part of security policy, Russia hitting baltic states is russia directly hitting EU intrest. This will partially force countries like Germany to try to prevent russian agression.

- EU is like communism, it poison ones mind, EU is pumping money to the "left wing" projects literaly buying their votes with our money. If you take a look at UK you will see how big part of population actually belive that EU is any good for them.

Because Poles are backstabbing Christian bastard, who want to exterminate pagan lithuaninan master race.

You can't rebuild great Lithuanian without going back to Paganism, pagan spirit made it great in the first place.

russia did not exist in the time, rus' people existed.

kiev was sacked in 1240, lol not in 1200

golden horde had 300000 horse archers and 10000 heavy cavalry in 1240-1380, rostov-suzdal was accumulating money and centralising. in 1380 they challenged golden horde for the first time and defeated one of their armies that had 100000 horsemen

lithuanians and venetians helped mongols in that war.

after that battle all princes decided to join moskow. such way modern russia was created.

people who want to rebirth Prussian language seem to be pro-pagan too

why not just secularism?

Lies and slander

oh wait, you're a pagan shill

Because secularism is nihilism and import of negros.

I'm not lying, Poles attacked and shat on pagan Baltic people every chance they got. you are probably going to tell me that taking Vilinus was justified.

Lithuania, in it's tiny size and having very little natural resources does not need to be and shouldn't be a country getting it's wealth from agronomy or industry. Lithuania is rich in educated people, booming IT/medical/law/tourism sectors. That's what most of the investments are going towards. Universities, technological facilities, etc. It's no longer the CCCP's agrarian slave labor state.
See:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-sector_theory
This was Lithuania's hopes and plans before joining the EU and LT pushed for these exact interests immediately after joining.

I'm going to tell you that you have a very specific agenda in your mind

>cherry picking some war later in the future.
Lithuanians whooped mongols in several battles literally over a hundred years before 1380. The battle fought by Russians against the mongols was outside the lands already taken by Lithuanians from the mongols. Kys.
See this map retard.

faggot

wow, what a brilliant retort. certainly has never seen it here before

asshole, retard, fuckface.

Lies.
Poles were different than Roman Empire. Roman empire was christianizing people like saxons "with iron sword" aka the brutal way.
Poles on the other hand thaught that this is way 2 brutal behavior so they wanted to christianize and civilize Lithuanians "with love",

Hold on a second Litbros. Explain the pic related.

excrement shat out of elephant's anus, paganic ultra-virgin, turbonerd, cockmongling asslicker

they never defeated main mongolian army, just some minor skirmishes. lithuanians payed tribute to mongols. also lithuanians were atacking russian principalities in back when they were sending their army to fight mongols. in that time expedition could take years.

green in this map is kievan and pereislav principality. lithuanians attacked them when they were in war with mongols

dark green - empty land with no people, after defeat in war with russians mongols just moved to east and to crimea.
lithuanians were allies of mongols in wars against russia

>armies of 20,000 + are minor skirmishes
Look man, you've obviously got some bullshit agenda in mind and won't look at facts objectively, so fuck off. Do whatever helps you sleep at night.

>they never defeated main mongolian army, just some minor skirmishes. lithuanians payed tribute to mongols. also lithuanians were atacking russian principalities in back when they were sending their army to fight mongols. in that time expedition could take years.
Oh and the Russians and other slavs couldn't defeat these so called minor skirmish armies, hmmm. Your argument collapses under your own logic. Show you flag, Igor.

>poles hates us
lol we're not
we're like dont have any opinion of you really, we only know that sometime in the past was polish lithuanian commonwealth and thats it
we dont even think of you
However im from central poland (Łódź) i dont know maybe people in the north and east have different views of you

russians defeated whole hordes.

they destroyed 15 mongolian and tatar hordes.

there are no more nommads today as you see LOL

yes, your biggest battle with mongols was small battle de facto. also with secondary forces.

Instead of having that awesome flag they picked something that looks like a fruit roll up, why?

Nope.
It was D/&C by Germans. Like Ukrainians are born from Austrian DD&C.