Monogatari

So I'm three seasons in (watching in airing order) and I like it, but is it just me or are there some moments in the dialogue where characters use the most retarded and backwards logic possible, namely in conflict scenes? Is this done intentionally, or is it shitty writing, or am I missing something?

>Pornogatari

give an example or I will assume this is bait.

There's this one scene in season two towards the end, where Araragi is fighting those two Aberration hunters, forget their names, but they're fighting him because it was uncovered that one of his sisters wasn't actually his sister, but an immortal phoenix, yada yada yada. So anyway, while they're fighting him, one if the aberration hunters is basically drilling him because he's "forcing his ideals onto his family" (irony) and that he's wrong and should let the sister be taken away, to which he ridiculously agrees to. Then, the aberration hunter does a 360 and pulls out some half-baked philosophy bullshit that literally makes no sense and walks away
There are a couple of other scenes, but this is the one I remembered most clearly

Let me explain the scene then.

Kagenui, the bowl cut aberration huntress, believed that all aberrations must be killed because they are inherently evil. It doesn't matter how they act or if they actually do evil acts, they are evil by nature and must be eliminated. Thus, she wants to kill Phoenix/Tsukihi even if she doesn't realize she is an aberration (evil). A fake must be killed, she only cares about realism and the truth.

Araragi understands Kagenui and her logic and acknowledges it, BUT, he says that he doesn't care if he is protecting "evil," as long as nobody realizes she is a fake, he will continue to protect her because she won't do any harm. Basically "ignorance is bliss" or "what you don't know can't hurt you"

However, she realizes that Kaiki has a point about fakes. His point was that fakes who try to act real are often more valuable/real that the real thing. Kaiki thinks that someone evil who acts good would be more valuable than someone who is inherently good and acts good. So, Kagenui concedes to Araragi using Kaiki's logic, thinking that even if she is fake, as long as she acts real and doesn't do any evil, she can live. So it's not exactly a 360, she was just convinced by Araragi, and by extension Kaiki, in this exception. I think Kagenui even tells Araragi that if she ever finds out she is an aberration, she will have no choice but to come and kill her.

Monogatari is dialogue heavy, so it can be pretty easy to miss important lines and context, so it's good to rewatch the episode or even the entire arc. I have rewatched each season multiple times and I am still learning and figuring out new things I had missed before.

Also it's 180, user. A 360 is a full circle.

Holy shit, that makes a lot more sense. So it's flaws with the actual character's logic rather than just straight-up shitty writing.
This makes me want to go back and rewatch everything.

>someone evil who acts good would be more valuable than someone who is inherently good and acts good.
not the user you're replying to but can you explain this? i don't understand

based user here

Yeah, the whole topic of real vs fake is a huge theme in Monogatari, but especially Nisemonogatari. I mean, Nisemonogatari literally means "fake story."

The writing in Monogatari is great to be honest. I'm a huge Nisio fan boy.

It's some shitty, backwards philosophy. That's why I was confused.

Definitely going to have to pay more attention in the future. Thanks again.

but how can he even think that. it's been a while since i've watched but did he give any examples of why he believes this to be the case? personally i agree that a fake can be just as real as the real thing but i don't see how it can be better

...

I think it's some shit about a fake having to put extra effort into appearing genuine? I don't know ask Kaiki

>you will never have an abusive harem like this

why live?

...

Based off of what said, it has more to do with the context of him trying to protect his sister than him actually believing that.

Think of it like this.

Basically, have you ever heard someone say something is too perfect to be real?

Take an example from a play named "Pygmalion" by Bernard Shaw.

In Pygmalion, there is a young, poor, uneducated woman with a horrible English dialect named Eliza. She meets a professor of English dialects named Higgins who makes an incredible amount of money teaching wealthy duchesses, princesses, and other royalty proper English. One of his colleagues, Colonel Pickering makes a bet with him, he says that he will pay him a huge sum of money to teach Eliza English and pass her off as royalty at a party in Buckingham Palace (the palace of the English monarch in London). Months later, he teaches her proper English and takes her to a party at Buckingham Palace with other royalty and passes her off as a dutchess. Everything is going well until one of his old students of dialect shows up at the party and he is a bit nervous that he will find out she is not the real thing. He tells Higgins that she is definitely not a duchess, which makes him clench his ass. Then he says that she is definitely something "beyond a duchess." and that her English is too good to be that of normal royalty, since it does not have any of the language/dialect blemishes that actual English royalty has.

So basically, in Eliza's attempt to be real royalty, she manages to even surpass what people would consider impeccable/natural royal English.

In this case, the "fake" manages to be realer than the real thing.

Yeah, this. It was definitely more about Araragi bearing burdens to protect his sister, per usual.

Thanks user, that's a really good explanation