Anime Fandom in America-What Happened?

Not sure if this goes here or in /jp/, but I'd figure I'd ask a question about anime and the American anime fandom.

What the fuck happened?

I'm an old-school otaku and I remember when anime was this cool thing back in the 90's and early 2000's, and now it's mocked by most other geeks while worthless Marvel and DC capeshit is celebrated to the point of being nerdy yet borderline mainstream.

I remember when I was a kid the days of the old VHS animes (mostly cheap fare from the OVA boom of the 80's and early 90's), when anime was really obscure but also very cool. The fandom was small and very underground, but if you were in the right place, owning a copy of Ninja Scroll or Ghost in the Shell, or watching Urotsukidoji would've made you one of the cool kids. It was dark and edgy but in a cool way that could've only been acceptable in the 90's. Part of it was the novelty of seeing cartoons that weren't for kids and had violence, fanservice, and dark themes, but that aside, there was a charm to the old VHS era of anime and the OVA boom that spawned it.

Then the late 90's and early 2000's came along and anime is still cool. It's even getting mainstream recognition in some circles, Fox Kids and Kids WB start airing anime such as Pokémon, Digimon, Cardcaptors, Monster Rancher, and the like. You also had Sailor Moon and DBZ get really big and there was the original Toonami as well. While most of these anime shows that aired were badly localized dubs, it was still a thing. Just seeing anime on network television was awesome, even if it was just the kiddie fare.

Adult Swim in the early 2000's was the center of this second wave of the anime boom (though Sci-Fi Channel's Ani-Monday block also helped), and a lot of the big name anime in the fandom at that time (Cowboy Bebop, InuYasha, FMA 2003, Ghost in the Shell: SAC, and even later hits like Bleach and Death Note) were aired on Adult Swim.

Fansubs and CR brought English-speaking fandom in line with Japan, so overseas anime fans' tastes converged with Japanese niwaka

(Continued from the previous post)

Back when Adult Swim actually cared about anime (the Toonami revival aside) instead of filling its schedule with unfunny stoner comedies and FOX reruns (Though the FOX reruns were there in the old days too. I do like King of the Hill though), it seemed anime was still cool in a geeky sort of way, even if it wasn't this underground cult thing it was in the 90's.

Then around 2007-2009, a shift happened. Anime stopped being this cool and respected thing within American geekdom. Adult Swim neutered its anime block, the old Toonami died, anime became less popular, and the OVA boom gave way to the moeshit boom. I think all of these factors played a part in the current situation of the anime fandom in America.

The "otaku" (which didn't carry the negative connotations in America that it had in Japan) became the "weeaboo" and now people have a knee-jerk reaction to anime in general, while lauding Marvel and DC capeshit.

I will admit that the anime fandom itself is partly to blame. The modern fandom, while decent in its own right, is a lot more cringeworthy than the old fandom of the 90's and early 2000's. The otaku back in my day was more likely to collect katanas, knives, and other admittedly mall ninja shit rather than body pillows and moe figurines, at least in America. Waifus weren't really a thing.

Now, I'll admit that I had crushes on some anime girls when I was younger (Sailor Mercury and Angewomon were among my first crushes ever, and even as a young teen, I liked Motoko Kusanagi and Sango) but neither me or any of the otaku I knew back in the day took things as far as the waifu subculture types.

What happened? Did any one moment cause all this or did all the little shit just pile up at the wrong moment like a perfect storm?

I'd like to hear your input.

OP here, that probably did play a major role, but it wasn't the only thing, at least I don't think it was.

Around the same time the American and Japanese fandoms started to converge in trends, the bubble was bursting. I highly doubt the moeshit boom or the cringe of over-zealous weebs had anything to do with anime essentially disappearing from American television in the late 2000's.

Maybe market over-saturation was what did it? Like the novelty wore off or something.

Wasn't there some scandal where a CN exec had to step down because of a prank gone wrong, and some moron pushing live action replaced him?

Blame Haruhi.

Why watch dubs on Toonami when you can get subbed stuff in better quality for free on the Internet? I think the bubble bursting was a combination of that and the recession

I know this seems like a "muh nostalgia" thread, but it cannot be denied that there was a huge shift in anime and its fandom within the past ten years.

I remember when being called an otaku in America wasn't necessarily a bad thing (it was always a bad thing in Japan though), all it meant was you liked anime. Now it's only slightly less derogatory than calling someone a weeb (which is now more common) and the anime fandom is generally shat upon by most other geeks (especially Marvel and DC capeshit fans) and is back to being fairly obscure to the mainstream (aside from the media having a vague general concept of anime existing)

Hopefully the new live-action Ghost in the Shell movie can reinvigorate things, but I'm doubtful. I'm still gonna see the movie anyway since I'm cautiously optimistic about it, but I'm afraid the damage has been done already.

Part of it is our fault as a fandom, part of it is the fault of external factors beyond our control.

Americucks always ruin shit

>while worthless Marvel and DC capeshit is celebrated to the point of being nerdy yet borderline mainstream.
Only because of hollywood

That probably explained the death of Toonami and the changes Adult Swim went through, but not the downfall of anime in general

I do like subbed stuff, don't get me wrong. But I still wish we could see more anime on TV though. I do agree the recession probably did play a massive role in the whole affair though. Combine that with the rise of streaming media.

I agree that moeshit is a major cause of blame for the shift within the fandom itself to being edgy and cool in a geeky sort of way to being looked down upon even by other geeks. We're not as bad off as the furries or the Sonic fans, but anime fans are no longer the "in" thing anymore. I think moeshit and otaku pandering played a huge role in that shift in the fandom's reputation.

>animes
>giving a flying fuck about what people think

True, Disney and Warner Brothers are the reason why capeshit has become so fucking huge right now.

That's why I'm going to support the new Ghost in the Shell movie regardless of any flaws it may have.

Pretty much. The guy who replaced him also pushed to keep ATHF cancelled even though at that point it was the only thing not borrowed from another network or wasn't a sketch show.

I don't get it, you see some of this weird shit get dubbed and aired on TV and then you have a franchise like Gundam that isn't excessively Japanese and only 1/3 of it's series have been broadcast in the west.

Why do you care so much about being cool or reputation, though?

>anime fandom
There's your problem right here.

>The otaku back in my day was more likely to collect katanas, knives, and other admittedly mall ninja shit rather than body pillows and moe figurines, at least in America. Waifus weren't really a thing.

How the fuck are those two types of otaku not equally cringey?

Because he is a normalfag, report this shit thread

I don't actually care what anybody thinks about me, I just wanted to have a discussion about this whole phenomenon.

Like I said, when I was a kid, having a copy of Ghost in the Shell, Ninja Scroll, Vampire Hunter D, the Street Fighter II movie, or similar fare would automatically make you one of the cool kids.

Now you can't even admit to liking old-school 80's and 90's anime without being branded a weeb.

We went from katanas and VHS tape trading to waifus and body pillows. Some things were inevitable such as the rise of streaming media, other shit cannot be excused like otaku pandering, moeshit, and the waifu phenomenon taking the extremes it has taken.

Maybe I'm just a relic and cannot adjust to the times.

Still wish Hollywood's fascination with capeshit would die off, but that is best left to be discussed on Sup Forums

Otaku pandering has always exist so has moeshit and waifu, even if they weren't called that
You should fuck off back to Sup Forums where you belong

Did you have access to all airing anime back in the day?

Not a normalfag, just expressing some introspection

Nah, both are equally cringey but in different ways. Also, what was cringey to us today was cool in the 90's and early 2000's (though being a teenager probably had something to do with that)

I don't care about my own reputation, I was just commenting on the old anime fans vs the new anime fans

(sigh) I miss the 90's. Pic related

Honestly? I think people just associate anime with hentai immediately now because of the internet, and because of that, anime isn't cool.

Basically for me, after 2004 or so, I didn't tell anyone that I liked anime unless they were otaku themselves. It's just kept as we say, "my shameful otaku secret."

TL;DR: Anime is synonymous with hentai. Comics, superheroes, are not.That's why it's not cool.

Do you remember a time when collecting comic books and being a fan of superheroes labeled you unusual and weird by the general population? How about now? Being a super hero fan is trending because it has permeated pop culture.

The mall ninja weebs were more likely to do cringey shit outside than contemporary moepigs are so it's an improvement

I wonder why.

Greedy japs and american dubbers and people who had a shit tier format to push basically decimated the fansub community.

The fansub community were litterally the ones that kept it big in the geek circles and were the ones who were introducing new anime to the non-geek and non-anime geek..geeks.

With them gone we only had official stuff from "horrible subs" and the little cabal that pushed this disaster.

Also american media and hollywood just did everything to outright shit on anime and even eastern drama. Even helped push "weeaboo" and a general hatred of japanese media.


And the japanese essentially being slow as fuck and hating streaming didn't help.
That and the way the tides turned with the kind of media that was being pushed.


Oh and oh my god after Megaupload was brought down and the servers stolen by the US government it just shut EVERYTHING down.

I mean both those otaku are essentially just kids playing pretend. I don't think one is better than the other.

And here we have the niwaka crying because people point out the objective decline of the industry. Enjoy your Aniplex isekai LN shit.

No, I didn't and I'm glad we have streaming media so I can watch anime at any time and any day.

I'm just saying the nature of the anime fandom was a lot different back then than it is now.

I'm not saying that it didn't exist back in the day (it definitely did), but it wasn't dominant or even the norm, at least not within the American anime fandom

Why must I be forced to share a planet with these retards

And here we have a retard that uses words he doesn't understand, kill yourself

Toonami was probably the biggest source of anime exposure for your average American until they shut it down.
And at some point after the idea of anime became associated with lolicons and nobody wants anything to do with it

>What the fuck happened?
My personal thought is it has to do with anime becoming more mainstream. Which is odd though, because you don't hear anime being judged by shonen which is what the majority of the surface level of content is. One Piece, SAO, DBZ, etc.
Perhaps it's social grouping -- people are familiar with weeaboos as the type that are obsessed with CGDCT and use that as a generalization.
>Marvel and DC capeshit is celebrated to the point of being nerdy yet borderline mainstream.
It's a hipster thing, IMO. Obsession with retro, the similar-but-unrelated fads of zines eventually merging the two together and stuff like artists who are favored among hipsters making webcomics.
>Adult Swim in the early 2000's was the center of this second wave of the anime boom and a lot of the big name anime in the fandom at that time were aired on Adult Swim.
This is a problem of accessibility. Things that aired on Adult Swim are far more familiar in the US than things that came out around that time but weren't, just because Cartoon Network is big and accessible through most cable and sattelite providers. Media is changing, however, and with it what is being represented is as well. Crunchyroll and Kissanime probably make up a lot more of anime consumption than modern TV nowadays.

>its another retard who want anime to be socially acceptable

I will never ever stop loli posting. Normalfags will adapt or fuck off and thats how it is.

Even in the 90's and early 2000's, anime wasn't always associated with hentai and the hentai that did make it to America back then (like Urotsukidoji) was considered more along the lines of the grindhouse horror films of the 70s than any other form of media.

So, hentai wasn't really the issue, at least not at first. I doubt it was that, at least not for the most part. I will say that hentai probably played a minor role in besmirching anime's reputation and the role grew later on.

Also, superheroes didn't become cool until Disney and Warner Brothers got a hold of Marvel and DC respectively and pushed capeshit movies to the moon.

This is true

True, but if you were a teenager in the 90's, it was cool in a dumb way

You are probably right, I agree with most of what you are saying.

There is literally nothing wron with being uncool.

Well, anime like bible black and la blue girl and every other girl either being a little boy in drag or a dickgirl becoming more well known didn't help either

>m-moeshit always existed! everyone who doesn't gobble it up is Sup Forums!
And the only examples you'll give of it existing before Lucky Star are either kodomo, shoujo or actual comedies like Azumanga Daioh, of course.

>anime fans stopped collecting katanas and started collecting comfy pillows
Oh the humanity.

So... the Jews LITERALLY did this?

Collecting weapons can be seen as a sign of youthful masculine belligerence, and so is generally understood to some extent by normies. Collecting body pillows and moe figurines is generally associated with sexual deviance and pedophilia by normies.

>Now it's only slightly less derogatory than calling someone a weeb (which is now more common) and the anime fandom is generally shat upon by most other geeks (especially Marvel and DC capeshit fans) and is back to being fairly obscure to the mainstream (aside from the media having a vague general concept of anime existing)
It's important to note that capeshit's star has been steadily on the rise in terms of casual appeal, since the mid-2000s. When you have huge budget blockbuster movies every year, its easy to become "normal". Contrast with Miyazaki movies, which haven't quite had that same star power since Ponyo in 2008 or so.

You are what is wrong with the anime fandom. As an old-school otaku, I urge you to kill yourself.

I don't give a fuck about the normies thinking I'm cool, but I'll be damned if I associate myself with loli pedo shit. Fuck you.

This

Also this

You need to ask yourself the same about Japanese otakus as well. Have you seen their top voted anime?!

Stop caring about what others think about your hobby. If anything, collecting katanas makes you part of the unironic atheist fedora tipping crowd, and they are like the lamest group in existence. A meme that doesn't even exist.

Otaku has always been seen as derogatory here though. Only low powerlevel faggots would go and label themselves as such, you know?

>ponyo was made 9 years ago

Oh god no, I cant be this old already

>normies
>loli pedo shit

There you have it folk. OP is nothing but a crossboarder normalfag.

...

what about below?

>I was merely pretending to be retarded

>A meme that doesn't even exist.
So... God?

Not him, but you're the kind of idiot that thinks "moe" is an artstyle. Pic related was moe and there was plenty of it before Lucky Star. Waifus also existed before Lucky Star, go look at all the pathetic otaku in the 80s with Lum and Ranma pillows. You are an idiot.

THIS

If you are a teenager collecting mall ninja shit, it's cringey but also kind of okay

Being obsessed with lolis and body pillows is never okay no matter how old you are.

Never said there was anything wrong with being uncool, I'm just saying there was a change within how people perceive the fandom.

Yup

True

It's not the pillows themselves, it's the sexual deviancy associated with it.

This is a good thread for loli.

>I'm just saying the nature of the anime fandom was a lot different back then than it is now.

You mean American anime fandom, correct?

But I asked the question purposefully. I just noticed the first response, but I think all the shit series available turn people off (even though they're just confirming their bias to dismiss good ones).

Or maybe most humans can't stand things different from what they're used to. And when you add people trash talking those different things, humans have more incentive to hate those things. The back and forth of "anime tentacle porn sushi Japan crazy we needed to drop those two atom bombs to save millions of Americans lives amirite?" creates an echo chamber where other people's voices jerk your dick to completion by the time you've finished your sentence.

In addition to inventing Moe, Japan also lost tech to Korea and China
So America lost all previous respect for Japan

Somebody post the message board post from the 1990s complaining about anime being ruined by normies demanding fan service and moeshit. These things come in cycles anons.

I will help you user

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keep em comin

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Question?

Isn't a good think Anime hasn't fully become mainstream nowadays?

I shudder what to think would ever happen if SJWs started to take over the industry

>Sup Forums suddenly thinks lack of normies in anime is a bad thing

what happened

Back in the 90's, katanas weren't associated with the fedora-wearing atheist types. What is lame now was kind of cool back then. I'm not an atheist and I have never owned a fedora, but back in 1999-2002, I owned a few cheapo katanas.

Stop applying 2017 memes to 1999 youth culture

No I am not a normalfag

I'm not trolling

I'm not saying moe didn't exist before, it definitely did and you did have cringey otaku back in the 90's. But it was more of a thing in Japan than it was in America at the time.

>suddenly
>normies

Lurk more before posting.

I do remember a thread from about a week ago where around 60% of the people said they found out about Anime from /r/anime on reddit, so...

This is a Sup Forums thread
Kirara is still young

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