If a villain makes you hate him does that make that villain a good villain?

If a villain makes you hate him does that make that villain a good villain?

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villain#Sympathetic_villain
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiVillain
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Villains are bad people.

Yes but that rarely happens

Name a hateable non-edgy villain

Gilgamesh is popular but is he objectively a good villain?

Akio

Explain why being "edgy" as you call it, is an inherently bad trait in a villain.

>If a villain makes you hate him does that make that villain a good villain?

Usually yes, if you're hating him for the right reasons and not hating him because he's a shit character. And it also doesn't mean that all good villains should make you hate them. A good villain can sometimes be more likable than the protagonist. It always depends on the overall story.

Antagonists > villains

no but Kotomine is
Nui harime too.

Because it means it's a cartoony villain and not very well-written.

Hagoromo Gitsune from Nurarihyon. Recently watched it too.

I should hate Kotomine for what he did in Zero, but I can't. Maybe is right.

It depends. If he's "edgy" for fun then it's usually a terribly written character and he's just creating problems for himself in the long run. If he has a reason to be edgy then it's usually fine.

chapter 1 Dio brando

Their whole character is just based around them killing or torturing people for fun which is just an easy way to write a villain.

Cheap way of making the spectator know "this character is a bad guy"

>Name a hateable non-edgy villain
Griffith.

The Sibyl system for example. They have their own reasoning but I couldn't but hate them

>edgy is a character trait that cannot appear in moderation

>in moderation
Do you even know what "edgy" means, retard?

>griffith
>non edgy

>lol I'll just rape that girl while staring you dead in the eye!

How the fuck is a villain supposed to be hateable and not edgy then? Villains are supposed to do edgy shit.

The dictionary definition yes.
On Sup Forums everybody uses their own special snowflake definition though, so I have no idea what you in particular think it means.

Not necessarily. I do believe that it should be character first before their role, though.

if a villain makes you sympathize with them that's a good villain.

>rape
she wanted it

Something unnecessarily stupid like the main character of the Hatred video game.

Recently watched GATE and I HATE the Emperor's faggot son.

Not even going to bother to save a pic of him.

That's not a definition.
Also, I don't really play video games, so I have no idea what you are talking about.

>reaching from unorthodox to completely above and beyond any reason
Yeah now way there could be different shades of edge. Just for clarity's sake, which definition are we going with today?

Evil for the sake of it.

yes, and I hate him with a passion

Somebody like Satania?

can't blame her for that

Maybe

She is pretty edgy isn't she

That's hyperbole.
Not everyone uses Edgy to describe 'Thing I don't like'
People do legit use Edgy as a reason to describe series they don't like
Be it that they're overwhelmingly depressing, to the point you'd honestly question why it's and escapist medium or overly violent, gore ridden and kill happy to the point you can't even invest in a character because they could die at a moment's notice or it's outright absurd.
The problem is that Sup Forums is morally bankrupt or out of touch with human sensibilities so they don't understand why X is edgy and take it as a buzzword, and thus it spread as a 'nice buzzword troll' or 'let's ironically use it' thing

that sounds like some alternative facts

>Not everyone uses Edgy to describe 'Thing I don't like'
I did not imply that.
But the word edgy really does mean a dozen different things here, probably because there is no dictionary definition to fall back on.
It pretty much *is* a buzzword.

Because Sup Forums has this amazing skill at mangling terms until they don't mean anything anymore.

not him but
>kill happy to the point you can't even invest in a character because they could die at a moment's notice
this proves his point, that's not really edgy and has happened in storytelling for almost as long as there's been storytelling

This is a thread about character traits, not settings, if you didn't notice.

yes and as an example greek myths are full of characters like that

More like, name a non-edgy villain.

Not necessarily, especially if you hate him because he's just nothing but pure evil, like a Disney villain.

And they're all fucking retarded

The asshole from Blue6?

Fate from Negima

>fate
>not edgy
nigger what

That's a bad villain.
Villains should be liked and understandable like the villains in Avatar Legend of Korra.

good tier villain:

Johan from Monster. a sociopath who who coldy kills many people in a calculating way to further his goals. He's charming as well as brilliant so he's a great villian

shit tier villain:

that bitch from Akame Ga Kill. Her whole stichk is that she loves to kill people that are a challange, and thus she just kills kills and kills everyone around her. Definition of edgy because her only trait is "Killing people is fun! muh strong survive philosophy!"

Rachel from Tower of God

Almost all greek myths are glorified fables.

Charisma is the most important aspect of a villain.

Not really. We all have different opinions on what's right and what's wrong. If you say it like that it's impossible to judge a villain objectively

Yeah fuck her I can't wait for her to get her comeuppance

>greek myths
Thanks for using stories for children as a standard

regardless, if people are using edgy in a way that it can apply to glorified fables that are now taught to schoolchildren then the original user is correct that it's nothing more than a buzzword

That's pretty much true unless we judge them in the form of consistency.

No. If a villain makes you love him and root for him instead of the protagonists, that makes that villain a good villain.

But sadly this isn't common enough in anime.

you prove my point, retards use edgy in a way that it would apply to those stories for children

That generaly makes the villain an antivillain.

How can you even hate smug villains?

I disagree. Plenty of actual villains in this situation. I can't come up with any anime examples, but there are lots elsewhere.

Anti-villains are actual villains.

Ok, so they're villains. So are you agreeing or disagreeing with the 'villains that you like are the best' statement then? I am confused.

I'm not him.
I'm just pointing out the definition of villain encompasses anti-villains.

Villains are people who do bad things.
Anti-villains are villains with second thoughts (very roughly).

what exactly is an anti-villain? moral ends and immoral means? immoral ends and moral means? both?

An anti-villain is to a villain what an anti-hero is to a hero.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villain#Sympathetic_villain

An anti-villain is simply a villain that is 'redeemable' so to speak, and at the same time the villain is a literary construct. There's no such thing as a villain in real life, because the entire point of the villain is to serve some sort of narrative purpose, the same way antagonists, protagonists, support characters, the mentor archetype, etc. have narrative purpose.
I think the good or bad of a villain should be judged based on how well it works within the narrative.

Anti-villains run the gamut from being "realistically evil" (i.e. they're not complete fucking monsters, they do things with purpose, they have their own standards, they may or may not have a good or at least understandable goal, etc.) to being "on the wrong side of history" - people who would've been the protagonist of a heroic story but aren't the hero of this particular story, who are only bad because their agenda comes into direct conflict with the protagonist's.

Now that I've linked to the article, I really regret doing so. It's a shit article.
Let's try this. tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiVillain

anti-heroes are usually moral ends immoral means but it's not so clear with villains

that's helpful thank you

okay so that says both could apply, thank you. it just doesn't seem like a very useful term to me since it's pretty much boils down to 'relateable', right?

It boils down to "a villain who could concievably be the hero". An anti-villain can be more or less indistinguishable from an anti-hero.

Not a villain

>anti-heroes are usually moral ends immoral means
They can also be cowards or gamblers or sex-fiends. The ways of the anti-hero are many.

Also, fuck you Hiro.

>Also, fuck you Hiro.
What did he do this time?

I'm range-banned because apparently there is a shitposter in my IP range. The only way I am allowed to post is by Sup Forums Pass.
I just had to spend 10 minutes trying to log into that pass.

Welcome to my world, I've had to have a pass for years at this point because moot saw fit to IP range ban my country.

I wonder what percentage of us is thus blackmailed.

>tfw venezuelan and have to spend a portion of my already diminishing funds on a fucking Sup Forums pass just to get my funposting high

>Name a hateable non-edgy villain

inb4 Hiro puts one on the US

You're right, fuck this bitch.

Except she's not hateable she's pure love.

What about Biba kind of villian?

He's the bad type of villain as Biba is nothing more than a plot device so that Mumei can be a damsel-in distress so that MC can grow some balls and save her.

Will he make a return in S2?

A good villain must also be a badass. Pic related.

...

I fucking hope not. He's the prime cause of Kabenari going to shit.

Why are you posting shit whilst not even knowing what a villain is?

About as real as christianity. Edgy, right?

Andou

I love Pariston! Does he count as "edgy"?

Griffith
Dio

>non-edgy

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