Is this the future we chose?

is this the future we chose?

what kind of country would Spain turn into if they lose all those territories?

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Armada
numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings_by_country.jsp?title=2017
numbeo.com/cost-of-living/cpi_explained.jsp
numbeo.com/cost-of-living/
archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/143581245/#q143599507
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Ages_(historiography
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Madrid would stay the octopus of the desert like always has been

Why is Spain so far below other European countries? I don't mean to insult but like historically and presently too I assume.
You niggas had the greatest empire in the world (though that was technically part of the German empire). When did Spain fall off so hard?

Its already hardly a country. Nobody stops taking siestas long enough to be productive and everything is socialized out the ass. Why are southern europeans so lazy?

>When did Spain fall off so hard?

Spain did an exceedingly poor job of capitalizing on the tremendous wealth that its colonies generated. You were basically 'Saudi Arabia the Empire'.

All you ever did was dig up gold and silver and then pay the rest of Europe to feed you, while getting in war after war after war on the continent, while ruling the colonies in a shitty way that built up resentment against Spain itself, while letting your nobles feud endlessly with each other, while stifling the shit out of all innovation with over-regulation.

Not 'you' the German, but rather OP

>though that was technically part of the German empire
it was not, first Germany didn't existed until the XIX century and even if you count the >H>R>E Charles V was the king of Spain first and emperor as a second title.

Portugal and Spain had early empires and didn't have industrial revolution, it was some kind of feudal shit until really late and Spain was permantly at war against everyone for centuries
then for XIX century a consecution of several civil wars between those who wanted to go back to the old ways of feudalism and christianism and the liberals who wanted democracy and rights ending in the XX century with a republic that seemed to change things but was crushed by Franquism
and then we just became a US client state and a european resort since we had to delete all our industry in order to enter in EU

>Spain did an exceedingly poor job of capitalizing on the tremendous wealth that its colonies generated
the silver and gold barely even arrived to Spain as it was almost directly send to bankers in order to pay credits that were taken to pay the army

>Charles V was the king of Spain first and emperor as a second title
You what? Is this a joke? Genuinely asking. If not I'd like to hear you argue for that.

Just before WW2 some idiot who wanted to jump on board the faschist bandwagon tried to bring catholic fuedalism back. Entire country fractured into about 800 different groups alternativley supporting the fuedalists and opposing them with a liberal smattering of anarchist opportunists who were basically just running around making noise to hear themselves scream.

Stalinists showed up, duked it out with the fuedalists who hitler was supporting soley for the purpose of testing out his new troops before invading poland.

Hitler lost interest and spain devolved into a confused almost but not quite balkanized failed state and pretty much stayed there on the verge between total failure and mediocre adequacy.

Spain is in the top 17 measured as GDP per capita per hour of productivity ahead Japan and South Korea. Spain is one of the most productive countries in the world

Which is basically what I said. You guys fought all over the fucking place, taking on oodles of debt to keep the wheels running, and burnt through all your gold and silver to do it.

>You what? Is this a joke? Genuinely asking.
It's true. Charles V ruled Spain and was elected Holy Roman Emperor after that. He was born in Spain too, if you're confused about it.

I literally prefer to start nuking people and have a radioactive wasteland than this shit

>spain will collapse in your lifetime
and this is the country that wanted to conquer us

>Charles V ruled Spain and was elected Holy Roman Emperor after that. He was born in Spain too, if you're confused about it.
Oh I thought you was making some WE WUZ statement about the primacy of the titles. Yeah I know that.
Misunderstanding

Only Catalonia is Industrialist... You missed that

basque and catalonia are the white people in spain

And Galicians

>though that was technically part of the German empire

the fuck?
>checks flag
oh

Galicia should be independent too

funny fact, franquism wasn't a Franco invention, he just shaped it and did what carlists failed at
Hitler and Mussolini supported Franco through all the war even though they didn't like him

>getting constantly attacked
the problem of the empire was that it was too big and had too much potential

>He was born in Spain too
he was bornt in Belgium cause his father wanted to have a party at there

Castilla-less Iberian federation when?

and Basque country

Well he's not wrong to WE WUZ. Charles was born in Spain, and when he decided to abdicated he held onto the Spanish inheritance for his children while pawning the HRE off on his brother. He obviously valued the Spanish domains more, so to assert that Spain was ever part of the German empire doesn't really have any basis.

I don't think so at all, they are still big PP cucks who are killing galician language

>so to assert that Spain was ever part of the German empire doesn't really have any basis
It was Habsburg clay as was the empire. Obviously I don't claim Spain was part of our Holy Roman Empire but since my point was about ruling the Habsburg rulers are kind of important.
Though your points about
>to abdicated he held onto the Spanish inheritance for his children while pawning the HRE off on his brother
are very good and nuance the view on it.

Feel free to correct me. Know virtually nothing about Spanish history. Or Habsburg for that matter.

Wasted a lot of money on the Spanish Armada, too.

They gave too much freedom when making constitution - allowing regionalists parties that most of them are nationalists separatist from Spain. Some of you Spaniards probably disrespect the current national flag or hate waving while we get fined or go to prison if do that ours, regional flags or other countries.

Plus a decentralised system and it is one of most decentralised states in Europe - now we have questions about their type of decentralisation and its efficiency - Devolved government in juntas de autonomia - allowing waste of resources, more corruption scandals adding to those of central government of that unitary state.

According to who? Your government? Cuz by any other metric you guys are literally brazil tier.

>far below
You have no much ideia have you?

The angolans and brazimixed are conquering your country by birthrates, why are you laughing?

The English Armada was a flop too
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Armada
Maybe its a good idea in general for all countries to not waste countless thousands on attacking foreign soil for little benefit...

People always bring this up, even when it's not relevant.

We know about the English Armada, but this happened preceding Britain's rise to world prominence, the Spanish Armada marked the beginning of Spain's decline.

>Sapin more purchasing power than netherlands
>Germany so much more than Switzerland
What kind of chart is that?

it's a fake decentalised system cause it all ends up in madrid or castilla
and nationalist parties have only become independentist in Catalonia in recent times because of the government

just because english propaganda, the armada was fastly rebuildt and rekt'd the english counter attack, the problem is that the country in general got stuck and never developed from that

It's not just the brazilians and the niggers we need to be worried about. ukrainians outnumber angolans

Immigration growth between 97 and 07
>Brazil 1997: 20,851 ; 2007: 66,354 (+ 218%)
>Angola 1997: 17,721 ; 2007: 32,728 (+ 85%)
compared to
>Ukraine 1997: 123 ; 2007: 39,480 (+ 31998%)
>Romania 1997: 224 ; 2007: 19,155 (+ 8451%)
>Moldova 1997: 3 ; 2007: 14,053 (+ 468333%)
>Bulgaria 1997: 347 ; 2007: 5,028 (+ 1349%)

You both are forgetting the Cape-Verdians (80% mullato and 20% pure subsaharan kangz). It is tied with the Brazilian population.

>just because english propaganda, the armada was fastly rebuildt and rekt'd the english counter attack

So? As you state: "the problem is that the country in general got stuck and never developed from that"

Is it not true that Spain just declined from this point onwards, until the Spanish Empire all but collapsed in the 1800s?

I think a comparison needs to be made between Spain and England, France and the Netherlands, and why these countries began their rise in the 1600s, and why Spain did not.

Ukrainians are white europeans son.use your brain. They are not harmfull to europid portugal, the same way afros or muslims.

>exchange rule from madrid for rule from sevilla
fuck that
t. granada

The data is all ocde stats. the direct source is here:
numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings_by_country.jsp?title=2017

You both are missing the point. The spanish empire died because the US wanted rubber, sugar, bannanas, and nutmeg. We killed thier empire so we could make tires and get fruit.

it's a shitty ranking.
numbeo.com/cost-of-living/cpi_explained.jsp
numbeo.com/cost-of-living/

Ukrainians are not Portuguese. Nor are africans, mixed brazilians, or moors.

How do you figure?

The Spanish Empire was basically extinct by the time the US took Cuba and the Philippines.

Don't try and explain why you want to keep Portugal Portuguese to Amerimutts, they don't understand why Brits don't like
>muh based Poles

my point is that the armada getting destroyed wasn't a cause of the decline, it was just a hit in the pride. Spain main problems were sucking too much the pope and christianism dick and strong nobility with a weak monarchy that almost caused the first """""bourgeoisie""""" revolution in early XVI century but then stopped the country to join the industrial revolution

now you have both, and a independent Andalucia implies a big political change so it would be safe to assume no more PSOE centralization from Sevilla

I would rather get one thousand latinos than 100 ukranians or polish

Spain was already a ded country by 1898

Are you the Ukrainian-origin living here from Sup Forums and here?
>Por favor, votei quem quiser mas nao me expulsei do portugal, ucrania 'e uma merda
archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/143581245/#q143599507

I know they are not portuguese, but at least they are europeans like you, i would prefer any european than a non european, this is common sense, to anyone that ever had any contact with both groups.

If you think Valencia would secede and join with Catalonia you're probably stupid enough that we can legally harvest your organs.

Valencians hate catallonians.
Half of Navarre is not even aware they are basques.
Andalucia is not aware of anything at all.

>i would prefer any european than a non european
and I would prefer a portuguese to anyone else

Valencia and Balears are there just because muh Paisos Catalans meme, Navarra is mostly non Basque but many relevant areas are, as we see abertzales and pro EH slowly taking power
Andalucia is a complex case because of it almost feudal composition of society, still Andalucia has a history with revolts and young generation are growing with federal or even freedom ideology

>he was bornt in Belgium
Sure but is also true that he was King of Spain frist and that Spain was much bigger and wealthy than the Holy Roman Empire, and that's why he put his son in charge of Spain and his brother of the Holy Roman Empire

Of course but without european brotherhood,Portugal will fall, Belgium will fall, England will fall, one by one. Just look at yur soccer teams already, whites are becoming a minority

Func fact is that we where one of the most deserted country of that time.

>"So true is that the Spaniards aspire to world domination, as only their limited number prevents it" Cardinal Richelieu.

I know

>european brotherhood
lol, that never existed and the closest it has ever got is EU

>lol, that never existed and the closest it has ever got is EU

Sorry if you can´t realize that also, european countries were never as threatened as they are now. And btw as far as i know, french, english, dutch and german crusaders helped spainnish and portuguese crusaders in the reconquista

every country was a desert compared to fucking france breeding like rabits but yes, Spain has always been and still is an empty country

>french, english, dutch and german crusaders helped spainnish and portuguese crusaders in the reconquista
that is true which is what makes the muslim demographic invasion of northern europe all the more terrifying

Charles V only speaks german to his horse bicth!

Better dead than Paisos Catalans

>historically
nigger Spain was at a point the most powerful nation of the world, it's a lowkey shithole now but don't be this delusional

Literally what I said

The king and the 3 armies that he commands would rather let the constitution and democracy go than let any part of the country go. Which is fine with me, this is not the US after all.
Spain goes back in history so many years and has overcome so much serious shit that I'm betting it won't give half a fuck about the ((too many interests)) that "won't let it happen" if shit got real.

basically irrelevant, France was constantly attacking Aragon to steal land when they were battling the moors
also the fucking pope and France allied with Ottomans cause Charles V was too powerful, or how Spain was permanently at war against Netherlands and France or England
those who created the europeans medieval states were the same who destroyed Rome and started the Dark Ages
hell even some of the crusades were against other european christian states

and btw everything Spain was and is was because of Al-Andalus and muslim and jewish influence

By "so far below other EU countries" you mean behind Germany, the UK, Italy and France. And that's pretty much it. Being in the top 5 is not that bad.

To answer your question, historians agree that after finding all that gold the king pretty much employed everyone in the country. This killed the drive for innovation and invention if we compare it with top countries in that field. And from there it's downhill.
A side effect of that was that many people were being paid for doing nothing, dumb jobs were created so people could get a salary for doing dumb unnecessary things, which is something we still have today in form of public workers, it never went away. The problem is all those unnecessary public "workers" have a need to "feel as if they are doing something" so they invent rules that are almost impossible to meet and Kafkian regulations and bureaucracies which is the real reason why Spain is a nightmare for entrepreneurs.

Dont know if you havent noticed but dancing on graves is kinda what we do.

>le ancap face

Why is modern Spain so left-wing? There's not a single fucking right wing party there, just controlled opposition "conservatives" who are as right wing as Hillary Clinton.

LMAO Spain and Portugal literally were born agaonst the muslims and expelled the jews, only after that they were important worldwide
but ok (( ))

Oh, don't be so hard on yourselves. You played a big role in killing European empires in the 1900s.

if we were so left wing why do still have so many franquist in power or have so many fascist symbols

our conservative already hold the far right wing votes since they protect Franco heritage

thanks to taking their influence, they were living with the golden age of both Islam and Judaism while the rest of europe was in the Christian Dark Ages
muslims even influences us more than romans and greeks

>the rest of europe was in the Christian Dark Ages
What the fuck is Byzantine Empire?

>Andalucia gets independence but Galicia doesn't

Wtf

lol you fucking idiot manufacturing is 14% of the spanish economy, and that score is not that bad, way above the glab average.

You think having a slave labor force is a hallmark of success like many amerimutts.

>another one who fell for the al-andalus meme
please, read serafin fanjul

>what kind of country would Spain turn into if they lose all those territories?

A shitty insignificant country. Don't let this happen, keep Spain together at all cost.

Btw never of this """Christian Dark Ages""" made-up term, only Dark Ages term. That's they refer Dark Ages only occuring in western Europe following the fall of Western Roman Empire

>muslims even influences us more than romans and greeks
they sure taught us lots of valuable things, like why we should hate muslims

both are really hard scenarios but I believe Andalucia has a higher revolutionary spirit and would be easier to break through their respective governments TLDR: it's easier to destroy PSOE and organize a popular base with farmers and low classes than to destroy galician PP who is swalloing everything and about to kill their language

south eastern european who more relevant in turkey and levant than in mainland Europe, I was talking more about the others like France, Britain, Germany or Italy

>hey look at this arabic expert who is also against everything regarding Islam and probably a fascist as well
no thanks

but I want Spain to collapse so it can be rebuild in a very different way, current Spain is absolute shit

I put Christian to specify even more and it is a term I have seen before, also to reinforce the comparation between the abrahamic religions in that time

or the carolingian heyday! i despair, irmao, i really do... the only european dark age is the one we're living in, with these standards of education..

The Spanish Government is being just like the Milosevic regime.

Spain like Yugoslavia will be Balkanized nto a bunch of smaller countries.

You will have a bunch of your leaders put on trial at war crimes tribunal.

>current Spain is absolute shit

Lol you are spoiled, try living in a country that nigger control all the cities.

>Main party calls themselves conservatives yet do almost nothing really "conservative"
>One of the most tolerant countries for LGBT rights in the world
>Almost nobody goes to church these days
>Most people slightly dislike capitalism and have a positive opinion of socialism
>Podemos ruling in every important city
>Only reason we're not like Sweden is because we're poorer and immigrants don't want to live here
Pablo pls. We're a leftist country.

your loss, faggot. i at least tried.

>But muh Franco!
So what if PP doesn't want to remove some irrelevant monuments. What matters is our culture is predominantly left-wing. Or at least it was until the Catalonia issue.

We'd still be a great country and in the EU and NATO. Come to Spain to party!

>he hasn't heard of King-Emperors

Spain should federalize and bring portugal in, then reconquer parts of latin american. Official language can be latin to stop all the butthurt.

Napoleon + cucked by Inquisition + literally retarded and incompetent kings + sudden loss of almost all latin american colonies

yet we maintain several muslim traits, food or ways of cooking, names, etc and a big influence in language arquitecture and arts

they also brought back several roman and greek texts that were lost after the collapse of Rome

>a bunch of your leaders put on trial at war crimes tribunal.
something that will never happen in Spain

yeah, there will always be a shittier country in the world but that's not the argument, Spain is shit to what you can expect from it

you talk like if podemos wasn't mostly hated in most of Spain, PP is actually pretty conservative, what they are not is libertarian
being tolerant or non religious doesn't make you left wing, you say that as if there were not gay or atheists/pagan fascists

podemos is ruling in Madrid and Barcelona just because the majors there are pretty centrist themselves

so you are saying that left wing people massively vote for a party that sabotages and privatises every public service, protects and are the heir of fascism and also support the church and the higher classes at their own expense
then we're a country of retards, not only PSOE voters

>Spain should federalize and bring portugal in
We tried that 400 years ago with disastrous results
Why do you think catalans want out?

>Official language can be latin to stop all the butthurt
doing that is in itself a form of butthurt
can't stop butthurt by acting butthurt
never go full EU

once the eternal castillian is defeated we can finally go back to the CNT-FAI that we were suppose to become

>learning a dead useless language is better than learning a second language
monolinguals everyone

>(though that was technically part of the German empire
What? The Habsburg king ruled the House of Austria, Spain, and other countless titles in Europe at the same time, Germany didn't even exist at the time
Its like saying UK is part of Germany now because british royalty comes from Saxecoburg-Gotha dinasty

most don't, polls show only 30% support for what the catalan government did.

USA also has desaturase result, in a civil war, but it recovered and became a superpower. Unification is the only way to have global influence.

Portugal being bullied out of all its colonies by UK and USA is what I call disastrous results.

>doing that is in itself a form of butthurt
Its more like a form of deep autism combined with WEWUZ larping

>I put Christian to specify even more and it is a term I have seen before
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Ages_(historiography
The term is Dark Ages.
Adding Christian is like propaganda purposes.
>also to reinforce the comparation between the abrahamic religions in that time
Are comparing theology or science, production of written works normally is studied outside the religions?

I've also seen shiet in the internet for example- """"Ottomans making the first flight""""mostly for propaganda .

Don't believe in everything in the internet or it gets shilled there.

Next, you are gonna say what Institute of New History of Catalunya says about Christopher Columbus being Catalan and other revisionist terms/history.

Going back to the topic, and the usage today:
>However, in the later 20th century other historians became critical even of this nonjudgmental use of the term, for two main reasons.[10] Firstly, it is questionable whether it is ever possible to use the term in a neutral way: scholars may intend this, but ordinary readers may not understand it so. Secondly, 20th-century scholarship has increased understanding of the history and culture of the period,[44] to such an extent that it is no longer really 'dark' to us.[10] To avoid the value judgment implied by the expression, many historians now avoid it altogether.

Someone enlighten me as to why after Reconquista so many arabs remained? Were there no pogroms?