PRO-Lifers BTFO #2

Because the last thread was pruned before I could explain.

>Pro-life arguments run parallel to pro-immigration

I started thinking about this after watching this;
youtube.com/watch?v=OCSZYJywQPM

Pro-lifers tend to argue that abortion is murder and that nobody should have the right to kill another human. Also that it's immoral and fetus's should have a chance at life.

Pro-immigrationers argue that you should let more people into the country due to bad circumstances so they can have a better life and because it's the moral thing to do.

Both are arguments to allow non-citizens access into the country's society and economy on the grounds of being morally superior; ignoring the social and economic ramifications that their ideology would have.

A fetus' isn't a citizen until it's born. This suggests they do not have the same rights as American's. Pro-lifers argue that these non-citizens should have these rights.
Pro-lifers are also arguing to allow the injection of these non-citizens into the economy which, like mass immigration, is essentially gambling on the productivity of the future citizen.

half of all abortions in the US are conducted because women don't want to be a single parent; health.howstuffworks.com/pregnancy-and-parenting/pregnancy/issues/women-who-have-abortions-single-parents.htm

Suicide rates, teen pregnancy, homelessness, behavioural disorders, rates of incarceration as well as a host of other things are more prevalent in homes with single parents;
providenceworld.com/about/studies-and-statistics/

So being pro-life is arguing to add social and economic strain to the country due to a moral argument of providing a non-citizen access to your rights.

So being pro-immigration is arguing to add social and economic strain to the country due to a moral argument of providing a non-citizen access to your rights.

>but abortion is murder
Nope. Murder is killing with intent.

interesting but flawed argument

illegal immigrants aren't people

you we're not aborted, you come here to shill for abortion. why deny another the chance to grow up and be like you?

>But it's killing a baby
Close but not quite.
A fetus dies because it's no longer being supported by the mother. If a mother chooses not to keep the fetus alive, it's not killing the fetus, it's just letting it die.
Eg.
If you were standing on a road and a bus was going to hit you. Me not saving your life isn't me killing you, it's just letting you die.

I'd argue that both cases aren't the ethical thing to do, but they're not murder and they're not killing.
>but killing is causing the cessation of life, and removing the fetus is causing that cessation of life
I guess, but then we're faced with a kind of third category of what 'killing' means. Causing the cessation of life of something that can survive on its own biological functions, I would say is killing. Eg, hitting a kangaroo with your ute.

Removing a parasite (I don't think a fetus is a parasite, but this is an example to communicate a parallel) that depends on you to live isn't killing that parasite, it's choosing not to support or help that life form survive.

Again, pro-lifers are arguing for non-citizens to receive these rights despite the negative economic and social effects of allowing that injection of higher-risk individuals into the economy.

Fpbp

kek

I could argue why not let someone into the country to develop themselves as a productive member of society like you?

The issue is that statistically, in both cases, this isn't going to be the case. So you have to choose being moral, intellectually inconsistent, or act in the interest of self preservation.
Self preservation here meaning the preservation of yourself as well as your countrymen.

>Suicide rates, teen pregnancy, homelessness, behavioural disorders, rates of incarceration as well as a host of other things

This is what we should fix in order to increase our birth rates. There's no point in having children in the west right now for most people so abortion is a favourable option.

> Self preservation here meaning the preservation of yourself as well as your countrymen.

How can you have country men if there are none to replace you?

>But what if everyone that gets pregnant has an abortion?
This won't happen.

Quality over quantity.

False equivalency.

Also, if the mother is undoubtedly a U.S. citizen, it's a foregone conclusion her child is as well.

Mire interesting is the hypocrisy of pro-choice claiming to be allies of the disabled against ableists when in reality their blanket support of choice infers condoning the eugenics involved in aborting fetuses with congenital defects.

And if an individual goes through the processes necessary, it's a foregone conclusion they'll become a US citizen.

There's also the technicalities of the location of the birth- whether it was abroad or not, the citizenships of the parents etc.

I'm not claiming any of those things. I'm pro-choice despite knowing it's letting a baby die and thinking it's morally wrong. This is due to not thinking with my heart, but thinking with my head and considering the ramifications of being pro-life.

The same logic applies with immigration- fuck illegals.

Pro-life here: people don't magically become people when they leave the womb or after an arbitrary state of development.

I'm not against immigration. I believe that the current US policies are awful at dealing with immigrants and that our economy doesn't and can't support it - the reasoning for disallowing immigration in the first place. If we were to open up immigration, everyone in the US would be worse off, including the immigrants.

What we have to do is make the economy more libertarian. Then we can do the moral thing and let immigrants in.

Don't be stupid. It is not a foregone conclusion that resident aliens have an interest in pursuing citizenship let alone putting forth the effort to go through the process. The act of admitting refugees is undermining our immigration policies and handing out resident alien status with no incentive to actually pursue citizenship. See the thing is, unless you get caught in a criminal act after sneaking into the country, the U.S. is generally pretty cool with extending our inalienable rights of our Constitution to non-citizens because, y'know, they're inalienable. Refugees who don't want to be citizens won't be given a reason to change their minds. They'll just stick around as illegals.

And there's the whole admitting radical followers who blow themselves up before they qualify for citizenship. They aren't foregone conclusions, either.

Again, the point I'm making is in response to the argument.

I don't believe abortions are necessary to criminalize, but I get really disgusted by the sociopathic behavior and moronic logic used by the squawking pro-choice flocks. It's homicide, but as a society, we do condone some instances of homicide. I don't think many pro-choice advocates give that the weight of thought it deserves.

I'll concede there's differences in between immigration and abortion, but their arguments still run parallel. They're both based on morality rather than stats and fact. They both argue for the rights and well-being of non-citizens at social and economic cost of existing citizens.

It's not homicide. If we were in the water, and you were hanging on to me, I shrugged you off and you drowned, that's not homicide.

I'm disgusted by the social and financial irresponsibility of pro-lifers that ignore the consequences to their actions. They're gambling with the future of their country because they refuse to look at context.

wew

It's simple and i don't know why people don't get.
>Was it rape?
Abortion
>What race is it?
Obvious answer here
>Is there a Big chance that the mother will die if she will give birth?
Abortion
>The child will come out deformed/some kind of severe retardation?
That's the parents' fault for not doing the tests to see if their genes are compatible. But then again, if i knew that there would be a 10% chance that my kid will be born with downs syndrome for example, it abort it. I am sorry if this sounds crewl but i don't want to ''waste'' my life raising someone who won't keep my genes from dying,

That's it. Every other scenario isn't acceptable. From my personal experiences, it is ALWAYS better if the child is born after all. 6 Years ago, my best friends sister got pregnant at the age of 17 and my friend was so mad about it. He cursed her every chance he got saying how stupid she is for getting pregnant. He was even seriously ploting to abort it himself by poisoning her food or ''accidentally'' pushing her of the stairs etc. It was the only thing he was talking about. And now, 6 years later, he loves the child possibly more than himself. (The husband is still around)

i'd aboirt it*

What is symbiosis nigger? Baby + mother become a continuous organism during pregnancy i know your autism will prevent you from understanding but when a woman aborts she is literally killing a part of herself and another person. Also if a parent cut a child off from food and let them die it would still be tried as murder.

Jesus Christ.